Date   

Re: ACMO RIGGING

Arno Luijten
 

Our 54  has just received new rigging from ACMO. It now has the beefed up shrouds as done by Amel on the last series of 54s. I also changed the lower shrouds on the mizzen from 7 to 8mm as I found them a bit stretchy. Rigging has been put on by Caraibes Marin in Martinique. They did an excellent job with professional measuring equipment and proper care for all the mounting points. The boat feels more secure with the rigging at proper tension and such.

ACMO did a great job with preparing the rigging. Only the triadic was a bit too long and had to be shortened by 10 cm.
The new turnbuckles are very nice, all stainless steel with bronze inserts for the threads, no chrome to fall off anymore. Caraibe Marine liked them so much they immediately ordered them for themselves as well!
The fact the prices increased is understandable, it seems prices for everything are going trough the roof at the moment. Thank you Putin and Covid….

Arno Luijten
SV Luna
A54-121


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Arno Luijten
 

It does beg the question, was it ACMO rigging or not…

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Amel lost its mast - D1?

Joan Blaas
 
Edited

I am shivering when reading their story. This is absolutely the last thing you want to happen when sailing with your kids.


Re: File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

Porter McRoberts
 

This is genius. Same issue!!  Very Appreciated!!

Porter
A54-152 IBIS

On Apr 28, 2022, at 10:15 AM, Eric Freedman <kimberlite.ef@...> wrote:

If you are changing the membranes on you 160 watermaker you will find that lining up the outboard bolts on the support bracket requires a person a lot thinner than me. To make life easier in the future I cut the rear mounting bracket at the mounting bolt area into a “V” leaving the majority of the  bolt hole as original. That allows me to loosen up the rear bracket without removing the nut. I then just slide the whole assembly back in place when I reassemble.
 
Fair Winds
‘Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of rossirossix4
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2022 11:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice
 
This seems like a good place to post this.  I was impressed with one of  Riza's Emek Marine techs who did our membrane replacement while instructing us on the steps.  At one point he actually crawled in and around and behind the board that the battery chargers are mounted on to easily access the membrane frame from the rear.  Might be helpful to someone. Wish I'd snapped a pic. 

Bob and Suzanne     KAIMI SM 429 



Re: File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

Eric Freedman
 

If you are changing the membranes on you 160 watermaker you will find that lining up the outboard bolts on the support bracket requires a person a lot thinner than me. To make life easier in the future I cut the rear mounting bracket at the mounting bolt area into a “V” leaving the majority of the  bolt hole as original. That allows me to loosen up the rear bracket without removing the nut. I then just slide the whole assembly back in place when I reassemble.

 

Fair Winds

‘Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io On Behalf Of rossirossix4
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2022 11:28 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] File /Dessalator Technical Info/Dessalator Replacement of Membranes - detailed.pdf uploaded #file-notice

 

This seems like a good place to post this.  I was impressed with one of  Riza's Emek Marine techs who did our membrane replacement while instructing us on the steps.  At one point he actually crawled in and around and behind the board that the battery chargers are mounted on to easily access the membrane frame from the rear.  Might be helpful to someone. Wish I'd snapped a pic. 

Bob and Suzanne     KAIMI SM 429


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Bill,
Notwithstanding my last "tongue-in-cheek" post a few minutes ago that the breathtaking price increase of new ACMO rigging may encourage owners to defer replacement, let me push back a bit on your statement about "almost zero ... failures" with ACMO and that those are with 20 year rigging.

Our Santorin has had two failures of ACMO rigging:
  • A mizzen lower backstay broke with an explosive sounding BANG at the top of the lower swage at 17 years. (Yes, close to your 20 benchmark). We were under sail with a 15 kt broad reach in calm seas. We replaced all rigging with ACMO.
  • The second failure was in the new ACMO rigging just 10 years later when a mizzen backstay blew out, again, at the top of the lower swage and amazingly while the boat was sitting at the dock

I replaced all rigging with non-ACMO that last time, but only because of the shipping cost to the USA (and all lowers terminals are Sta-Locs, not swaged) This is not a knock on ACMO - I still think ACMO is excellent, although I really have no empirical reason to think that - I just have had a great relationship with them and trust their product, as does (did?) Amel. Next time they still will be my vendor of choice - if the price is right.

 Fwiw, Craig
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: ACMO RIGGING

David Vogel
 

Greetings all,

At the risk of starting a fiery debate (but my guess is that it will happen anyway, sooner, or later), one of the things that has crossed my mind since I replaced the standing rigging (ACMO, air-freighted to StMaarten) was, when it next falls due in another 10 years, will the acceptability of hi-mod fibres (such as Dyneema/Sprectra) for rigging by then have become of widespread acceptability?

I know of a few (non-AMEL) boats who are now already are going this route, moving away from SS stranded-wire or rod rigging. And I wonder if there are any AMEL owners out there who have also either already travelled this path, or who have done some serious research on the topic and would wish to share their insights.

Thanks in advance.

David
SM#396, Perigee
Whangarei

From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Bill Rouse <brouse@...>
Reply to: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Thursday, 28 April 2022 at 9:52 am
To: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification" <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] ACMO RIGGING

Nick,

Standing rigging has increased a lot over the past 4 years. Some boat manufacturers have chosen alternative and less costly suppliers. In a way, I can't blame Amel because how many new boat buyers truly understood the value of ACMO rigging? 

I saw non-ACMO standing rigging on an A50 in June 2021. I asked the owner if he knew the brand or if he knew why Amel changed. He had no knowledge. I immediately wrote ACMO and asked about this. I was told, "Our quality has always been as good as possible for us. We understand that we are quite expensive and we understand that sometimes our customers find other solutions." 

I replied to ACMO: "I am very saddened that Amel has chosen to use another standing rigging supplier. I understand that these things happen, but want you to know that I plan to stand with you and support the ACMO brand in my Amel Book, in my 24/7 Support of Amel owners, on my website, and in my Amel Training Courses."

Summary:
As most of you know in the last 40 years there have been almost zero ACMO standing rigging failures on Amels and this exists when too many Amel owners have sailed with 20-year-old standing rigging by ACMO. There is tremendous redundancy of standing rigging on most Amel models. I am aware of a Super Maramu with 20-year-old standing rigging that while under sail lost the starboard side Cap Shroud on the main. The owner furled the sails and motored into port where he had that single shroud replaced. I would never recommend sailing with standing rigging that old and certainly not recommend replacing just one piece.

I plan to continue recommending ACMO. I really do not know much about the new supplier of standing rigging to Amel.

Bill


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

 tel:+1 832-380-4970 | mailto:brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
http://www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
   



https://preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 2:56 PM Nicolas Klene via http://groups.io <laixoi=mailto:me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: ACMO RIGGING

 

Nick,

Standing rigging has increased a lot over the past 4 years. Some boat manufacturers have chosen alternative and less costly suppliers. In a way, I can't blame Amel because how many new boat buyers truly understood the value of ACMO rigging? 

I saw non-ACMO standing rigging on an A50 in June 2021. I asked the owner if he knew the brand or if he knew why Amel changed. He had no knowledge. I immediately wrote ACMO and asked about this. I was told, "Our quality has always been as good as possible for us. We understand that we are quite expensive and we understand that sometimes our customers find other solutions." 

I replied to ACMO: "I am very saddened that Amel has chosen to use another standing rigging supplier. I understand that these things happen, but want you to know that I plan to stand with you and support the ACMO brand in my Amel Book, in my 24/7 Support of Amel owners, on my website, and in my Amel Training Courses."

Summary:
As most of you know in the last 40 years there have been almost zero ACMO standing rigging failures on Amels and this exists when too many Amel owners have sailed with 20-year-old standing rigging by ACMO. There is tremendous redundancy of standing rigging on most Amel models. I am aware of a Super Maramu with 20-year-old standing rigging that while under sail lost the starboard side Cap Shroud on the main. The owner furled the sails and motored into port where he had that single shroud replaced. I would never recommend sailing with standing rigging that old and certainly not recommend replacing just one piece.

I plan to continue recommending ACMO. I really do not know much about the new supplier of standing rigging to Amel.

Bill

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
   

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 2:56 PM Nicolas Klene via groups.io <laixoi=me.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Craig Briggs
 

On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 02:55 PM, Nicolas Klene wrote:

Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille

 Hi Nicolas,
That sounds like irrefutable scientific engineering evidence that your rigging will last 18 years, not 10. 
:-)
--
Craig Briggs - s/v Sangaris / SN68  Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: ACMO RIGGING

Nicolas Klene
 


Hi Everyone
Just had a quote from ACMO this morning with bill’s negotiated 10% discount ,and it was up 20% from March at an eye watering 14610.9 € .
Apparently Amel does not use ACMO anymore for the newer boats like 50s & 60s ,anybody knows who they are using ?
All the best 
Nicolas
--
Nicolas Klene
DarNico
SM2K # 471
In Marseille


Re: Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

There were no instructions from Amel. Simply the cover is not usable. Will call Amel tomorrow and discus the problem.
Thank you.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

 

The problem is you used the old cover. It will absolutely give you this problem. 

The new cover would have held the axle (prop shaft) in the correct alignment. The old cover is a different thickness at the shaft which allowed the shaft to move laterally and allow the two gears to misalign. 

You will likely need a complete new kit. According to one of my clients, instructions from Amel are included with the kit about this issue. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 12:07 Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:
The round cover delivered from Amel didi not fit so I used the old one. Anyway I will have to do all over again. I might learn some more :)).
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

back then, I did not had issue between the electric motor and the shaft, the spins shown on the picture, look good. 

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 01:02:34 PM AST, Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:


That might be a problem as I made key thinner. I have replaced all parts inside (used a kit from Amel) and had a problem with key not fitting in. This is answer to situation that at first it worked and then not. That happened after few seconds. Probably key broke :((.
One more question. There is no way that there is problem between electrical motor and mechanical part of truster?
To answer to Bill. I did all the maintenance. 
So I will have to do it again.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

The round cover delivered from Amel didi not fit so I used the old one. Anyway I will have to do all over again. I might learn some more :)).
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

That might be a problem as I made key thinner. I have replaced all parts inside (used a kit from Amel) and had a problem with key not fitting in. This is answer to situation that at first it worked and then not. That happened after few seconds. Probably key broke :((.
One more question. There is no way that there is problem between electrical motor and mechanical part of truster?
To answer to Bill. I did all the maintenance. 
So I will have to do it again.
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Something I forgot:

When you receive the new kit from Amel, the key will not fit, as the groove has not been made deep enough on the shaft.  

I mentionned that to Amel in 2017 - since friends ordered that same kit years after and had the same issue - I was disappointed Amel didn’t correct it when I first mentioned it and probably still not have.  

So you will need a machine shop to make the hole on the shaft a bit deeper for the key (you could make the key thinner, but this is not the proper way).  

Anyone having this kit as a spare should do the same, otherwise risk to not being able to fit it as they won’t find a machine shop if they are in remote area. 

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 12:14:12 PM AST, Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io <uster@...> wrote:


Good morning Slavo, 


The same thing happened to me.  

The pitch suddenly became much higher (obviously no load).  


In my case, the gear were worn down.  


It wasn’t obvious looking at them, here are some pictures:

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_spin.html


My hull number was closed to yours (#289).  


When you order from Amel, you will likely have to buy the complete unit (with the tufnoll shaft)

It is Amel part #1110 “Mecanism pied de propulsory SM” in 2016 it was 585 Euro

http://supermaramu2000.com/spare_parts_bow_thruster.html


I am sure you have seen my illustration to service the bow thruster in the water.  

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_overhaul.html


Good luck to you.

Sincerely, Alexandre (Formerly SM2K #289 NIKIMAT - lost 2017 during Irma)

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 11:54:51 AM AST, Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:


After a 3 weeks on hard and lot of projects done we are back in the water. All looked well until I started manoeuvre to get in to my berth in marina. Bow truster at first worked and then suddenly I heard fast spinning like when I had rope cut the propeller from bow truster. Later I checked with camera and I have found that propeller Is there and all looks fine. But it does not turn.
The electrical motor is spinning like there is no load so I am thinking that there might be a problem in connection of motor to mechanical part of bow truster. I do not know. Lines are little loose but I can not remember how it was before I removed and serviced bow truster.
I am in the water now and thinking what to do. Should I use Amel tool and remove bow truster in water or is there anything else I can check before doing this. 

--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

 

Agree. It is either the gear is worn, or someone has not performed the correct service when replacing the gear. The round gear cover that Amel sends with the kit must be used with the new kit. If you use the old cover with the replacement gear kit, the gears will not align.

The only possibilities other than the worn or misaligned gears are:

The 6 nylon screws have sheared, or the stainless steel pin for the Hub has cut a slot all the way around the hub.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Wed, Apr 27, 2022, 11:14 Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io <uster=rocketmail.com@groups.io> wrote:

Good morning Slavo, 


The same thing happened to me.  

The pitch suddenly became much higher (obviously no load).  


In my case, the gear were worn down.  


It wasn’t obvious looking at them, here are some pictures:

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_spin.html


My hull number was closed to yours (#289).  


When you order from Amel, you will likely have to buy the complete unit (with the tufnoll shaft)

It is Amel part #1110 “Mecanism pied de propulsory SM” in 2016 it was 585 Euro

http://supermaramu2000.com/spare_parts_bow_thruster.html


I am sure you have seen my illustration to service the bow thruster in the water.  

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_overhaul.html


Good luck to you.

Sincerely, Alexandre (Formerly SM2K #289 NIKIMAT - lost 2017 during Irma)

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 11:54:51 AM AST, Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:


After a 3 weeks on hard and lot of projects done we are back in the water. All looked well until I started manoeuvre to get in to my berth in marina. Bow truster at first worked and then suddenly I heard fast spinning like when I had rope cut the propeller from bow truster. Later I checked with camera and I have found that propeller Is there and all looks fine. But it does not turn.
The electrical motor is spinning like there is no load so I am thinking that there might be a problem in connection of motor to mechanical part of bow truster. I do not know. Lines are little loose but I can not remember how it was before I removed and serviced bow truster.
I am in the water now and thinking what to do. Should I use Amel tool and remove bow truster in water or is there anything else I can check before doing this. 

--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Bow truster problem

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Slavo, 


The same thing happened to me.  

The pitch suddenly became much higher (obviously no load).  


In my case, the gear were worn down.  


It wasn’t obvious looking at them, here are some pictures:

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_spin.html


My hull number was closed to yours (#289).  


When you order from Amel, you will likely have to buy the complete unit (with the tufnoll shaft)

It is Amel part #1110 “Mecanism pied de propulsory SM” in 2016 it was 585 Euro

http://supermaramu2000.com/spare_parts_bow_thruster.html


I am sure you have seen my illustration to service the bow thruster in the water.  

http://supermaramu2000.com/bow_thruster_overhaul.html


Good luck to you.

Sincerely, Alexandre (Formerly SM2K #289 NIKIMAT - lost 2017 during Irma)

On Wednesday, April 27, 2022, 11:54:51 AM AST, Slavko Despotovic <slavko@...> wrote:


After a 3 weeks on hard and lot of projects done we are back in the water. All looked well until I started manoeuvre to get in to my berth in marina. Bow truster at first worked and then suddenly I heard fast spinning like when I had rope cut the propeller from bow truster. Later I checked with camera and I have found that propeller Is there and all looks fine. But it does not turn.
The electrical motor is spinning like there is no load so I am thinking that there might be a problem in connection of motor to mechanical part of bow truster. I do not know. Lines are little loose but I can not remember how it was before I removed and serviced bow truster.
I am in the water now and thinking what to do. Should I use Amel tool and remove bow truster in water or is there anything else I can check before doing this. 

--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Bow truster problem

Slavko Despotovic
 

After a 3 weeks on hard and lot of projects done we are back in the water. All looked well until I started manoeuvre to get in to my berth in marina. Bow truster at first worked and then suddenly I heard fast spinning like when I had rope cut the propeller from bow truster. Later I checked with camera and I have found that propeller Is there and all looks fine. But it does not turn.
The electrical motor is spinning like there is no load so I am thinking that there might be a problem in connection of motor to mechanical part of bow truster. I do not know. Lines are little loose but I can not remember how it was before I removed and serviced bow truster.
I am in the water now and thinking what to do. Should I use Amel tool and remove bow truster in water or is there anything else I can check before doing this. 

--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Croatia


Re: Fridge/freezer cooling

Sv Garulfo
 


My two cents:

* Risks of freshwater contamination from refrigerant leak:

1. A refrigerant leak will soon be visible by the fridge malfunctioning. It wouldn’t be a case of a silent killer,

2. A leak in the condenser is made less likely by circulating freshwater,

3. If a refrigerant leak happened in the condenser, the r134a refrigerant would bubble up and not dissolve to any significant amount in the water,

4. If a leak happened in the condenser, the oil carried out by the refrigerant (however small amount) would stay at the surface (being less dense and dropped in from the top of the tank). It wouldn’t be sucked in the freshwater circuit. 


* Risk of circulating circuit leak emptying the freshwater tank:

5. It’s low risk but could happen. The symptoms would be the same as with saltwater (in the bilge or in the various compartments in the saloon), but the consequences far less worse (salt vs no salt). At a pump rate of a few litres per min, even a (how likely?) fully breached circuit would take time to empty the tank. 


* Health risk of freshwater contact with condenser:

6. The condenser is most likely made of cupronickel. There is no real study that I could find of the health impact (as per Bill R.’s point regarding liability), probably because it’s an expensive and pointless freshwater carrier, when copper is available and widely used. So unknown, but probably not very relevant, given Nickel is used in some platings of freshwater application. And to be put in balance with the other possibly worrying health hazards (VOCs in varnishes, PVC, anti fouling paints when you swim, clean the hull or make water, UV or antiUV cream, alcohol intake, ...) and benefits (insert you favourite here) of boat life.
As a side note, keelcools are made of cupronickel too, so they don’t help as a replacement of the condenser with circulating freshwater. 

* risk of warming the fresh water to unsafe temperature: 

7. Well, that’s difficult to theorise. Fibreglass conductivity, heat exchange with the surface air, freshwater replacement rate, etc. In practice, I’ve met Amels with full freshwater circulation and none could measure a difference between tank water and surrounding sea water temperature, and I’m not shocked. I would even think the frequent circulation and aeration of the freshwater helps prevent growth in the tank. 
If one worries about the temp of their freshwater tank rising, one should stay in high latitude sailing grounds. Ceramic filtering is a must, if only for taste.

So in conclusion, I think freshwater cooling (copper coil plunging condenser or freshwater water circulation) has more benefits than drawbacks, the main one being the shipyard not having the regulatory means to implement it. 


Best,

Thomas 
GARULFO
A54-122
Tahiti 



On 26 Apr 2022, at 10:06, Bill Kinney <cruisingconsulting@...> wrote:

There is NO filter I would ever trust to remove the contaminants from a refrigerant leak into the drinking water without rather sophisticated testing to be sure it actually worked with the actual chemicals at issue.

Propylene glycol is the basis for many of the non-toxic heat transfer solutions used in the food industry. It is usually easy to detect by taste in plain water before most onboard test methods would measure its presence.  You likely consume some every day in your normal food intake.  If you are concerned about it, you COULD just circulate water, but you would have issues with biological growth and corrosion, but still way better than using salt water!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Palmas del Mar, Puerto Rico



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