Perfect - Herbert.

I am Thinking the Fans might be the answer - but I am definitely "googling" the Seawater units now.

And thank you.

Jim

On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Steve,

   Congratulations!  I am pretty sure that Super Sailmakers made a complete suit for Delos and their is a You tube video that shows the loft.  I have had some contact with SSM and they told me that they have made sails for a lot of other Amels but I have not verified this.  

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 16, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Last week we became the new caretakers of SM2K #380.  She was originally named Feria and then Lady T, and is now Tourai.  Like a few others here, we are looking at new sails and will meet next week with Peter Grimm of Super Sailmakers in Ft. Lauderdale.  Has anyone else used them for their Amels?  He mentioned that he was putting together a couple ballooners at the moment and so I am curious if perhaps Harmonie is headed that way to pick up theirs from him?  Thanks to all for such a wonderfully active, supportive, and particularly useful user group.  

All the best,

Steve Morrison

On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

From a slightly different perspective…

You are certainly right, changing from a 150% on a foil to a smaller sail in wind conditions where that would actually be  needed, is a real handful for a short handed crew.  Corralling that sail coming down is not something that one or even two people can easily handle in 25 knots of wind and a seaway.  It can be done… but it’s not my idea of fun.

I have found from experience that rigging a GaleSail most certainly IS a challenge.  Of course it is!  You only do it when the wind is blowing the oysters off the rocks and the bow is underwater half the time!  But it is no worse than taking down a large hanked-on sail and putting up a smaller one.  When you see comments about them, you have to remember that everybody who buys one has a roller furling jib, and the idea of going forward to install a new sail in rough conditions is not something they are used to. Having said that, I don’t have one on my Amel, and it isn’t on my list of things to add.

I think you would find the difference in performance between a roller furling 150% and a 135% to be very small, except under a very narrow range of wind speeds and angles.  Especially if the large sail is heavy enough to be useful in heavy winds, it then collapses in the light winds that should be its forte.  While it is certainly true that a sail that comes down as low to the deck as possible is more efficient, the loss of visibility to leeward can be a big deal if you sail shorthanded where there are other boats or obstacles around. I watched somebody run down hard on a buoy they didn’t see coming under their big decksweeping genoa. Is small performance difference worth the extra hassle?  That is something only you can answer for yourself.  It’s just a priority thing. I don’t let Formula 1 drivers tell me how to set up my car, and I don’t let racing sailors tell me how to rig my boat.

I have sailed boats with vertical battens in the mainsail.  I found them to be fussy on rolling.  Not impossible or fatally flawed, just fussy. The very opposite of a standard Amel mainsail, but some people are fine with the the bit of fussy needed. Again, priorities.  If your sailmaker convinces you that they are the way to go, I would insist on a guarantee they work--for you--the way you sail--and a free recut to a batten-less hollow leech if you are not happy.  Again, there is, of course, a performance penalty for the hollow leech when close hauled, but it is not huge.  And on other points of sail, it would be almost unnoticeable.  The best argument in favor of battens might be to reduce leech flutter and help the sail last longer.

One consideration: Can you get the sail out and useful if the engine is not available to help hold the boat into the wind?  Engines are not 100% reliable, and the ability to put up sail in an emergency is not something I would trade for a small performance benefit. If the jib alone will hold you high enough into the wind to get out the mainsail, then good enough.

Lot’s of good sailmakers in the world, many with Amel sail experience.  I needed a new ballooner recently, and I crossed off everybody on my list who didn’t know what that was.  

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

“Ships and men rot in port."

http://fetchinketch.net

On Nov 16, 2016, at 10:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

You asked: "Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu?"

The swivel is what needs to be changed and I understand from a rigger in Malta that the swivel is available, but since I never looked into it, I am not sure where. Possibly from Amel. You would need the swivel, a 3 slot foil, a "hooker" and a "de-hooker."

Since you would need a 3-slot foil, I am not sure that you would consider this unless you were replacing the foil.

Several SM owners have bought tri-radial cut hydranet sails from a sailmaker in Ismir, Turkey. I have toured the loft and was impressed. All that I know bought from them, are as satisfied as we were. They ship worldwide. Email: Tahsin Oge ogemar.com>. 

I do not have direct experience with a Maramu, but I would NOT use vertical battens in a Super Maramu furling mast. It was not made to accommodate battens and you will have some issues with wear and the ability to furl at any angle other than the wind at 0 degrees...and the difficulty is proportional with the wind speed.

Bill

BeBe 387

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

   Many thanks for your response to my questions about Amel sail inventory and especially the details of your experience with the battens.  

   Based just on this seasons sailing on Sueno, I agree with you that the original 150 Genoa is a very good solution for my boat and apparently yours as well.  It is a pretty big sail to store in a locker while a smaller sail is installed on the furler such as a working jib or the 110 Yankee cut sail that you mentioned.   All of my previous boats had hank on sails, which are relatively easy to control and change offshore due to the many fastening points.  On a furling sail that slides into a groove and is essentially free once lowered I cannot imagine that changing from the 150 to the 110 offshore in a bit of wind would be much fun.   This is why I was wondering about the Code 0 option.  It is a lightly made sail that hoists on a halyard ahead of the furler.  The sail is on a line furler so that when hoisted it is rolled up and can be lowered in the same state.  The Code 0 could be a significantly  larger than the 150 Genoa and would pack down into a smaller/lighter package when stowed.  This would allow the smaller jib to live permanently on the furler.  My Amel and the furling system in general is relatively new to me, so comments such as yours are a big help in making the right decisions on the new sails.  

   I have not read many positive things about the Gale sail and have never used one to date.  I wonder if there is a risk of damage to the furled sail from chafe?

   I do strongly feel that I want to have a headsail solution available on my boat that is strong enough to use deeply reefed and is easy to tack.  

   And yes, it is certainly possible these days with careful planning to avoid most of the higher wind conditions.  Our planned route will take us around South Africa however and that is one example where I think it may come down to the luck of the draw and I want to be ready…

   I have not yet used the double pole arrangement for downwind sailing but spinnakers I are not a good option for cruising in my mind either.  

   Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu? 

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

Hi James,

I have an SM, so not entirely the same...but here is my experience.

When I purchased Kristy 8 years ago, the sails had been discarded.  I was starting with a clean slate, but didn't know very much.  She's my first sailboat.

I knew that the original set of sails included a 150% genoa, but allowed myself to be talked down to a 135% by a sailmaker in Kemah, Texas.  He said that I wouldn't have good sail shape by the time I reefed to 15-18 kts of wind.  He may have been right, but as light winds are more of a problem than too much wind, I regret not having the 150.  In addition, the 135 is cut with the clew 1.2 meters above the safety rail.  This further reduces my sail area in light air.  If I were to do it again, I would have a 150 with the fo ot just above the safety rail. (Assuming that it would still work well with the downwind pole.)

I also have a 110 Genoa with a high cut clew, almost a Yankee.  It is my go-to sail in the Eastern Caribbean during the winter months when the trades blow 20-25 kts all the time.

The main and mizzen have short vertical battens that have never been a problem.  You just have to keep the boom at 90 degrees to the mast when furling in or out.  Watch the battens as they enter the mast, they should enter all at once, not at any angle.

My sails are 8 years old and still look very good.  They are Dacron with Spectra and I was told they should last 12-15 years.  They aren't racing sails, but they do what I want them to do very well.

If I am still sailing when my current sails need replacing, I don't think I'd change anything except that I'd go with the 150 genoa.

I have a spinnaker that came with the boat, but I've never used it.  Anyone interested?  Pay for shipping and you can have it.  I love the double pole rig for downwind sailing.

I also have a Gale Sail that straps around the furled headsail. I put it up once but have never actually used it to sail with....I try to stay out of those conditions.  I've been in 35-40 kts a couple of times, both times with the 110 Yankee up. She did great jib and jigger with the 110 furled about 20% and the mizzen at the spreader.

Don't know if that helps you at all, jus t recounting my experience.  I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Steady as she goes.

Kent

S/V Kristy

SM243

On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Steve,

   Congratulations!  I am pretty sure that Super Sailmakers made a complete suit for Delos and their is a You tube video that shows the loft.  I have had some contact with SSM and they told me that they have made sails for a lot of other Amels but I have not verified this.  

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 16, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Last week we became the new caretakers of SM2K #380.  She was originally named Feria and then Lady T, and is now Tourai.  Like a few others here, we are looking at new sails and will meet next week with Peter Grimm of Super Sailmakers in Ft. Lauderdale.  Has anyone else used them for their Amels?  He mentioned that he was putting together a couple ballooners at the moment and so I am curious if perhaps Harmonie is headed that way to pick up theirs from him?  Thanks to all for such a wonderfully active, supportive, and particularly useful user group.  

All the best,

Steve Morrison

On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

From a slightly different perspective…

You are certainly right, changing from a 150% on a foil to a smaller sail in wind conditions where that would actually be  needed, is a real handful for a short handed crew.  Corralling that sail coming down is not something that one or even two people can easily handle in 25 knots of wind and a seaway.  It can be done… but it’s not my idea of fun.

I have found from experience that rigging a GaleSail most certainly IS a challenge.  Of course it is!  You only do it when the wind is blowing the oysters off the rocks and the bow is underwater half the time!  But it is no worse than taking down a large hanked-on sail and putting up a smaller one.  When you see comments about them, you have to remember that everybody who buys one has a roller furling jib, and the idea of going forward to install a new sail in rough conditions is not something they are used to. Having said that, I don’t have one on my Amel, and it isn’t on my list of things to add.

I think you would find the difference in performance between a roller furling 150% and a 135% to be very small, except under a very narrow range of wind speeds and angles.  Especially if the large sail is heavy enough to be useful in heavy winds, it then collapses in the light winds that should be its forte.  While it is certainly true that a sail that comes down as low to the deck as possible is more efficient, the loss of visibility to leeward can be a big deal if you sail shorthanded where there are other boats or obstacles around. I watched somebody run down hard on a buoy they didn’t see coming under their big decksweeping genoa. Is small performance difference worth the extra hassle?  That is something only you can answer for yourself.  It’s just a priority thing. I don’t let Formula 1 drivers tell me how to set up my car, and I don’t let racing sailors tell me how to rig my boat.

I have sailed boats with vertical battens in the mainsail.  I found them to be fussy on rolling.  Not impossible or fatally flawed, just fussy. The very opposite of a standard Amel mainsail, but some people are fine with the the bit of fussy needed. Again, priorities.  If your sailmaker convinces you that they are the way to go, I would insist on a guarantee they work--for you--the way you sail--and a free recut to a batten-less hollow leech if you are not happy.  Again, there is, of course, a performance penalty for the hollow leech when close hauled, but it is not huge.  And on other points of sail, it would be almost unnoticeable.  The best argument in favor of battens might be to reduce leech flutter and help the sail last longer.

One consideration: Can you get the sail out and useful if the engine is not available to help hold the boat into the wind?  Engines are not 100% reliable, and the ability to put up sail in an emergency is not something I would trade for a small performance benefit. If the jib alone will hold you high enough into the wind to get out the mainsail, then good enough.

Lot’s of good sailmakers in the world, many with Amel sail experience.  I needed a new ballooner recently, and I crossed off everybody on my list who didn’t know what that was.  

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

“Ships and men rot in port."

http://fetchinketch.net

On Nov 16, 2016, at 10:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

You asked: "Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu?"

The swivel is what needs to be changed and I understand from a rigger in Malta that the swivel is available, but since I never looked into it, I am not sure where. Possibly from Amel. You would need the swivel, a 3 slot foil, a "hooker" and a "de-hooker."

Since you would need a 3-slot foil, I am not sure that you would consider this unless you were replacing the foil.

Several SM owners have bought tri-radial cut hydranet sails from a sailmaker in Ismir, Turkey. I have toured the loft and was impressed. All that I know bought from them, are as satisfied as we were. They ship worldwide. Email: Tahsin Oge ogemar.com>. 

I do not have direct experience with a Maramu, but I would NOT use vertical battens in a Super Maramu furling mast. It was not made to accommodate battens and you will have some issues with wear and the ability to furl at any angle other than the wind at 0 degrees...and the difficulty is proportional with the wind speed.

Bill

BeBe 387

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

   Many thanks for your response to my questions about Amel sail inventory and especially the details of your experience with the battens.  

   Based just on this seasons sailing on Sueno, I agree with you that the original 150 Genoa is a very good solution for my boat and apparently yours as well.  It is a pretty big sail to store in a locker while a smaller sail is installed on the furler such as a working jib or the 110 Yankee cut sail that you mentioned.   All of my previous boats had hank on sails, which are relatively easy to control and change offshore due to the many fastening points.  On a furling sail that slides into a groove and is essentially free once lowered I cannot imagine that changing from the 150 to the 110 offshore in a bit of wind would be much fun.   This is why I was wondering about the Code 0 option.  It is a lightly made sail that hoists on a halyard ahead of the furler.  The sail is on a line furler so that when hoisted it is rolled up and can be lowered in the same state.  The Code 0 could be a significantly  larger than the 150 Genoa and would pack down into a smaller/lighter package when stowed.  This would allow the smaller jib to live permanently on the furler.  My Amel and the furling system in general is relatively new to me, so comments such as yours are a big help in making the right decisions on the new sails.  

   I have not read many positive things about the Gale sail and have never used one to date.  I wonder if there is a risk of damage to the furled sail from chafe?

   I do strongly feel that I want to have a headsail solution available on my boat that is strong enough to use deeply reefed and is easy to tack.  

   And yes, it is certainly possible these days with careful planning to avoid most of the higher wind conditions.  Our planned route will take us around South Africa however and that is one example where I think it may come down to the luck of the draw and I want to be ready…

   I have not yet used the double pole arrangement for downwind sailing but spinnakers I are not a good option for cruising in my mind either.  

   Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu? 

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi James,

I have an SM, so not entirely the same...but here is my experience.

When I purchased Kristy 8 years ago, the sails had been discarded.  I was starting with a clean slate, but didn't know very much.  She's my first sailboat.

I knew that the original set of sails included a 150% genoa, but allowed myself to be talked down to a 135% by a sailmaker in Kemah, Texas.  He said that I wouldn't have good sail shape by the time I reefed to 15-18 kts of wind.  He may have been right, but as light winds are more of a problem than too much wind, I regret not having the 150.  In addition, the 135 is cut with the clew 1.2 meters above the safety rail.  This further reduces my sail area in light air.  If I were to do it again, I would have a 150 with the fo ot just above the safety rail. (Assuming that it would still work well with the downwind pole.)

I also have a 110 Genoa with a high cut clew, almost a Yankee.  It is my go-to sail in the Eastern Caribbean during the winter months when the trades blow 20-25 kts all the time.

The main and mizzen have short vertical battens that have never been a problem.  You just have to keep the boom at 90 degrees to the mast when furling in or out.  Watch the battens as they enter the mast, they should enter all at once, not at any angle.

My sails are 8 years old and still look very good.  They are Dacron with Spectra and I was told they should last 12-15 years.  They aren't racing sails, but they do what I want them to do very well.

If I am still sailing when my current sails need replacing, I don't think I'd change anything except that I'd go with the 150 genoa.

I have a spinnaker that came with the boat, but I've never used it.  Anyone interested?  Pay for shipping and you can have it.  I love the double pole rig for downwind sailing.

I also have a Gale Sail that straps around the furled headsail. I put it up once but have never actually used it to sail with....I try to stay out of those conditions.  I've been in 35-40 kts a couple of times, both times with the 110 Yankee up. She did great jib and jigger with the 110 furled about 20% and the mizzen at the spreader.

Don't know if that helps you at all, jus t recounting my experience.  I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Steady as she goes.

Kent

S/V Kristy

SM243

On Nov 16, 2016, at 17:09, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

One of my neighbors just told me, he saw a boat like mine anchor near Tortola.  
Would love to meet other Amel owner. 
Will be staying in the BVI until the end of January. 

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

On Nov 16, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Last week we became the new caretakers of SM2K #380.  She was originally named Feria and then Lady T, and is now Tourai.  Like a few others here, we are looking at new sails and will meet next week with Peter Grimm of Super Sailmakers in Ft. Lauderdale.  Has anyone else used them for their Amels?  He mentioned that he was putting together a couple ballooners at the moment and so I am curious if perhaps Harmonie is headed that way to pick up theirs from him?  Thanks to all for such a wonderfully active, supportive, and particularly useful user group.  

All the best,

Steve Morrison

On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

From a slightly different perspective…

You are certainly right, changing from a 150% on a foil to a smaller sail in wind conditions where that would actually be  needed, is a real handful for a short handed crew.  Corralling that sail coming down is not something that one or even two people can easily handle in 25 knots of wind and a seaway.  It can be done… but it’s not my idea of fun.

I have found from experience that rigging a GaleSail most certainly IS a challenge.  Of course it is!  You only do it when the wind is blowing the oysters off the rocks and the bow is underwater half the time!  But it is no worse than taking down a large hanked-on sail and putting up a smaller one.  When you see comments about them, you have to remember that everybody who buys one has a roller furling jib, and the idea of going forward to install a new sail in rough conditions is not something they are used to. Having said that, I don’t have one on my Amel, and it isn’t on my list of things to add.

I think you would find the difference in performance between a roller furling 150% and a 135% to be very small, except under a very narrow range of wind speeds and angles.  Especially if the large sail is heavy enough to be useful in heavy winds, it then collapses in the light winds that should be its forte.  While it is certainly true that a sail that comes down as low to the deck as possible is more efficient, the loss of visibility to leeward can be a big deal if you sail shorthanded where there are other boats or obstacles around. I watched somebody run down hard on a buoy they didn’t see coming under their big decksweeping genoa. Is small performance difference worth the extra hassle?  That is something only you can answer for yourself.  It’s just a priority thing. I don’t let Formula 1 drivers tell me how to set up my car, and I don’t let racing sailors tell me how to rig my boat.

I have sailed boats with vertical battens in the mainsail.  I found them to be fussy on rolling.  Not impossible or fatally flawed, just fussy. The very opposite of a standard Amel mainsail, but some people are fine with the the bit of fussy needed. Again, priorities.  If your sailmaker convinces you that they are the way to go, I would insist on a guarantee they work--for you--the way you sail--and a free recut to a batten-less hollow leech if you are not happy.  Again, there is, of course, a performance penalty for the hollow leech when close hauled, but it is not huge.  And on other points of sail, it would be almost unnoticeable.  The best argument in favor of battens might be to reduce leech flutter and help the sail last longer.

One consideration: Can you get the sail out and useful if the engine is not available to help hold the boat into the wind?  Engines are not 100% reliable, and the ability to put up sail in an emergency is not something I would trade for a small performance benefit. If the jib alone will hold you high enough into the wind to get out the mainsail, then good enough.

Lot’s of good sailmakers in the world, many with Amel sail experience.  I needed a new ballooner recently, and I crossed off everybody on my list who didn’t know what that was.  

Bill Kinney

SM #160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

“Ships and men rot in port."

http://fetchinketch.net

On Nov 16, 2016, at 10:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

You asked: "Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu?"

The swivel is what needs to be changed and I understand from a rigger in Malta that the swivel is available, but since I never looked into it, I am not sure where. Possibly from Amel. You would need the swivel, a 3 slot foil, a "hooker" and a "de-hooker."

Since you would need a 3-slot foil, I am not sure that you would consider this unless you were replacing the foil.

Several SM owners have bought tri-radial cut hydranet sails from a sailmaker in Ismir, Turkey. I have toured the loft and was impressed. All that I know bought from them, are as satisfied as we were. They ship worldwide. Email: Tahsin Oge ogemar.com>. 

I do not have direct experience with a Maramu, but I would NOT use vertical battens in a Super Maramu furling mast. It was not made to accommodate battens and you will have some issues with wear and the ability to furl at any angle other than the wind at 0 degrees...and the difficulty is proportional with the wind speed.

Bill

BeBe 387

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

   Many thanks for your response to my questions about Amel sail inventory and especially the details of your experience with the battens.  

   Based just on this seasons sailing on Sueno, I agree with you that the original 150 Genoa is a very good solution for my boat and apparently yours as well.  It is a pretty big sail to store in a locker while a smaller sail is installed on the furler such as a working jib or the 110 Yankee cut sail that you mentioned.   All of my previous boats had hank on sails, which are relatively easy to control and change offshore due to the many fastening points.  On a furling sail that slides into a groove and is essentially free once lowered I cannot imagine that changing from the 150 to the 110 offshore in a bit of wind would be much fun.   This is why I was wondering about the Code 0 option.  It is a lightly made sail that hoists on a halyard ahead of the furler.  The sail is on a line furler so that when hoisted it is rolled up and can be lowered in the same state.  The Code 0 could be a significantly  larger than the 150 Genoa and would pack down into a smaller/lighter package when stowed.  This would allow the smaller jib to live permanently on the furler.  My Amel and the furling system in general is relatively new to me, so comments such as yours are a big help in making the right decisions on the new sails.  

   I have not read many positive things about the Gale sail and have never used one to date.  I wonder if there is a risk of damage to the furled sail from chafe?

   I do strongly feel that I want to have a headsail solution available on my boat that is strong enough to use deeply reefed and is easy to tack.  

   And yes, it is certainly possible these days with careful planning to avoid most of the higher wind conditions.  Our planned route will take us around South Africa however and that is one example where I think it may come down to the luck of the draw and I want to be ready…

   I have not yet used the double pole arrangement for downwind sailing but spinnakers I are not a good option for cruising in my mind either.  

   Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu? 

Best,

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

 

On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi James,

I have an SM, so not entirely the same...but here is my experience.

When I purchased Kristy 8 years ago, the sails had been discarded.  I was starting with a clean slate, but didn't know very much.  She's my first sailboat.

I knew that the original set of sails included a 150% genoa, but allowed myself to be talked down to a 135% by a sailmaker in Kemah, Texas.  He said that I wouldn't have good sail shape by the time I reefed to 15-18 kts of wind.  He may have been right, but as light winds are more of a problem than too much wind, I regret not having the 150.  In addition, the 135 is cut with the clew 1.2 meters above the safety rail.  This further reduces my sail area in light air.  If I were to do it again, I would have a 150 with the fo ot just above the safety rail. (Assuming that it would still work well with the downwind pole.)

I also have a 110 Genoa with a high cut clew, almost a Yankee.  It is my go-to sail in the Eastern Caribbean during the winter months when the trades blow 20-25 kts all the time.

The main and mizzen have short vertical battens that have never been a problem.  You just have to keep the boom at 90 degrees to the mast when furling in or out.  Watch the battens as they enter the mast, they should enter all at once, not at any angle.

My sails are 8 years old and still look very good.  They are Dacron with Spectra and I was told they should last 12-15 years.  They aren't racing sails, but they do what I want them to do very well.

If I am still sailing when my current sails need replacing, I don't think I'd change anything except that I'd go with the 150 genoa.

I have a spinnaker that came with the boat, but I've never used it.  Anyone interested?  Pay for shipping and you can have it.  I love the double pole rig for downwind sailing.

I also have a Gale Sail that straps around the furled headsail. I put it up once but have never actually used it to sail with....I try to stay out of those conditions.  I've been in 35-40 kts a couple of times, both times with the 110 Yankee up. She did great jib and jigger with the 110 furled about 20% and the mizzen at the spreader.

Don't know if that helps you at all, jus t recounting my experience.  I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Steady as she goes.

Kent

S/V Kristy

SM243

On Nov 16, 2016, at 1:30 PM, dave_benjamin@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

I'm a sailmaker who used to own a Maramu myself (hull #29) and I've supplied sails for several Amel owners. Here are some thoughts I have regarding your questions:

1. Cloth - The Maramu sails are fairly small since it's a split rig. Smaller sails don't experience the loads that larger sails experience. Radial Hydranet is an excellent cloth but very expensive. If you're planning long distance cruising, it has some advantages. On a Maramu, the one sail it makes the most sense for is the genoa. If you have lots of money to spend, then no harm in building the main and mizzen with it. For the mizzen, I'd be quite comfortable with a high quality crosscut Dacron. With the Super Maramu, the sails are all a bit larger so we can more easily justify more exotic sailcloth. On my ow n Maramu, I built the working sails from very high quality crosscut Dacron. If I had more money at the time, I probably would have done the genoa differently. 

2. Mainsail battens - When we build furling mains, we have 3 choices and it's important to understand the role battens play. 

A) - No battens

Advantage is simplicity and reliability. Without battens we have to have leech hollow so we lose some area and some upwind drive. 

B) - Battens that reduce or eliminate leech hollow

When we build a furling main, this is the most common way we approach it. If we want to reduce the possibility of a furling main jamming, the best approach is to have short vertical battens that don't ov erlap one another. By designing the sail in this manner we can eliminate almost all of the leech hollow. I'd be happy to send a photo of one of these mains to you if you'd like. 

C) - Battens to provide positive roach

I think people who want positive roach mainsails should have bought a boat with a conventional mainsail rather than furling main. These sails are the most likely to cause problems. One of my colleagues who manages a sail loft on the US east coast has spent a lot of time modifying positive roach furling mainsails into mainsails with a straight leech. 

3. Genoa size

Do you have the twin downwind pole arrangement for your boat? As for genoa size, it's hard to recommend without knowing what your sailing plans are. Many of the Caribbean bas ed Amels use smaller headsails successfully. 

4. Cruising Code 0

I really don't like this term because the term Code Zero refers to a very specific type of racing sail that has to meet certain girth requirements and is nothing like a cruising sail. So we named our version the CLASS (Cruisers Light Air Sail Solution). We usually fly this sail with an ATN spinnaker sleeve since foil-less furler installations can be a bit expensive and because it's a light air sail, there is no reason to not go on deck and retrieve it. We have a couple of different approaches when we build this sail for an Amel and it just depends on whether the client uses the twins for downwind sailing. If so we optimize the sail design to be more of a reaching sail since it will generally be used above 150 deg apparent. This sail is particularly useful for clients who have opted for a smaller genoa. The CLASS has a nicely defined shoulder and drives the boat well in light air. Trying to sail an Amel in light air with a traditional furling genoa is a bit frustrating because the cloth  is so heavy and then weighted down even more with a suncover on the leech and foot. 

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello,

   It is time for a new set of working sails for Sueno and I was hoping to get some input on what seems to work out the best.  I am considering the tri-radial hydranet for the cloth but open to other options.  I am undecided about whether to add battens to the main and mizzen.  I note that some are now using the short vertical battens to straighten the leech and in some cases full length battens to allow a bit of roach in the main and mizzen.  While the additional sail area is certainly interesting to me, I am concer ned about the possibility of a batten getting jammed in the spar on some dark night with the wind rising...  It would be great to hear from others to see how battens worked out..or not.  Another decision that I trying to make is what to do about the foredeck sail(s).  I know that my large genoa does not set well when reefed deeply and is prone to being stretched.  Would it be good to have a working jib to 110 with a foam luff for this usage?  If so should I also have a normal sized Genoa?  It would be a big help to hear about what light air sails seem to work well on the Amel.  Has anyone installed a code 0 and if so how did that work out?

Thanks for any input.

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 16, 2016, at 15:32, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill, or anyone, do you know if the foam luff can be added to an existing sail?  I fit your description perfectly. "I see a lot of SM with new sails and the owner omitted this option, but complains about furled sail shape."  I don't remember the foam being an option when I bought my sails.

Kent Robertson

S/V Kristy

SM243

On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:56 PM, parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James

Like Kent I don’t have a wealth of experience to make judgements on. But for my pennyworth here are my experiences.

On my previous boat,  Jeanneau 37, I was persuaded to have my new mainsail with  short vertical battens to increase the leach area. From the start the sail would jam until I recognised what Kent does – watch carefully when furling the mainsail to ensure the battens are absolutely vertical to the slot. The jamming, which I experienced again furling in very heavy weather, did stretch the leach of the sail. In part the sailmaker was to blame for not inspecting the mast slot which was quite narrow due to the plastic inserts which protected the sail fabric. The other bit of blame goes down to my lack of experience in boats and sails at that time.

 

Amels have a much more generous slot and I have yet to hear of a sail ever getting stuck when furling. I have great faith in mine.

 

We bought our Santorin in the Med and sailed it back to Wales for a refit. We crossed Biscay very comfortably in 40 knots of wind on the stern quarter with a furled genoa. We subsequently cruised the West Coast of Scotland in heavy weather. The boat was brilliant, but the genoa did not furl well. It had no foam luff and therefor many creases after the first couple of rolls. This did affect its windward sailing.

 

In the Cape Verdes a fellow cruiser took some photos of us under full sail, and I was alarmed at the shape of the genoa. Every panel was stretched and the sail no longer a smooth curve!

 

However the material was still very sound and we crossed the Atlantic with 7 of the 13 days under poled out genoa and ballooner. We had used the ballooner down the Moroccan coast for 3 days. We don’t reef at nightfall at all on the boat as it is so easy to reef whenever required (we sail just the two of us). We did get 35 knots blow up one night and just furled the two headsails down to almost pocket handkerchiefs and ran downwind till the wind died down in the morning.

 

In Trinidad last season we had a new Genoa made. Ullman sails looked at the main and mizzen and said they were good for a few more miles, but replaced the leaches which had stretched a bit – they do get the most wear. He advised us to have a 135% genoa which I wondered about, but in the end decided to go with (plus a foam luff).

 

This has been wonderful in the Caribbean. Sets well, reefs well. Most importantly for us ( a cruising couple) we can see forward under the genoa much better without constantly having to stretch out over the rail to see ahead.

 

We haven’t had the opportunity to use twin headsails again in the last 3 years, so I can’t make any comment there.

 

My only advice is to consider your sailing plans (including crew). How much do you want to sail fast (ok all of us do) vs comfortable cruising? How much downwind sailing will you do. (only 50% of our Atlantic crossing allowed the twin headsails, and none since then).

One question to ask is do you have room to keep your old genoa – the shape of it doesn’t matter downwind. We didn’t have the space on our Santorin so it had to go.

 

A final point, from a cruiser perspective, unless it blows a force 4 and above we generally end up sailing motor assisted, but at 70 years old dancing on the foredeck now only appeals with the right music and in a decent anchorage!

 

Good luck with your decision!

 

Ian and Linda

 

Ocean Hobo  SN96

 

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