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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrician needed in FLA
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Alex, I can't help you directly, but maybe some of the following will help. There is a relay on the engine that activates the engine fan blower when the engine key is turned ON. Sometimes water enters the key switch and shorts it because when the engine was shut down the key was not removed and the cap placed over the key switch. Of course, relays go bad and connections to relays get corroded. But, the fan running may have run down your starting battery. It may be possible that low voltage and low output may have the relay stuck ON. I want to remind you that leaving failed batteries in a battery bank can cause a severe and dangerous situation because a charger can meltdown the entire bank. If the bank was in failure mode, the water pump may have been trying to run, but low voltage will impact how the pressure switch operates and low voltage and low output are likely in your situation. Good luck, but it sounds like you need batteries and an electrician. Bill Rouse On Dec 12, 2016 11:19 AM, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Electrician needed in FLA
Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
Strange
things happen on my AMEL54. I can’t track them down to a single cause for all the problems that I
currently face. I need help from a good electrician in Florida (currently being
in Stuart).
In the
night from Friday to Saturday I woke up hearing a noise that came from the
water pump (forgot to turn it off and its setting is on high pressure – will change
that once I find out how to do). Also, the blower in the engine room was
blowing for hours – no obvious reason for that..
On Saturday
morning, I couldn’t start the generator or engine.
The
boatyard had no 12V battery in spare and brought a charging unit for the housing
batteries which worsened the situation. It didn’t load them, but instead heated up two of the
housing batteries (I have 4 blocks of 4x6V =24V) Sonnenschein AGM batteries,
total of 16 batteries. Will need to replace them anyway as four showed bad results in
a load test earlier last week. Seems we are up on 6 bad batteries now.
Who should I
ask for help while in Florida?
Thanks, Alex
NO STRESS,
Stuart FLA
AMEL54, hull no 15
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water accumulator
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Bill, If you watch the pressure gauge, as I have lots of times, you will notice that the water flow remains constant until the pressure drops, and when it drops, the gauge drops fast. This dropping fast should not happen with a properly adjusted and clean pressure switch. His pressure switch should turn the pump ON before there is a noticeable loss in flow, and before a dramatic drop of pressure on the gauge. Paul's description of his problem matches a symptom of a pressure switch issue of NOT activating the pump at the correct time. However, he may also have an accumulator issue. The symptom of an accumulator problem is short cycling of the pump, but short cycling may not only signify an accumulator issue, it can mean that the pressure switch us adjusted wrong, the backflow valve is dirty or not working, or a number if other issues. Best, Bill Rouse On Dec 12, 2016 10:32 AM, "Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water accumulator
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
I’m going to respectfully disagree with Bill R on this one…
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If you see a rapid fall of pressure before the pump comes on AND the pump short cycles… I’ll bet on the accumulator. It is the rapid fall of pressure when you turn a tap on that makes me think accumulator. That’s not something the pump switch has any say in. Unfortunately, I can’t help with the details of your accumulator without a model or photo. Of course your pressure switch might STILL need cleaning… Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL Bahamas—very soon. “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh water accumulator
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Paul, I am sure that the accumulator tank has a valve, but I think your problem is one of two things:
Here is a photo of what you need to clean it: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/364756240/lightbox/1829859600?orderBy=ordinal&sortOrder=asc&photoFilter=ALL#zax/1829859600 Here is a video of how to adjust a Square D pressure switch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WNbxu9ufPs If the above doesn't help you try this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggn0hyGI2AU Best, Bill BeBe 387 Currently St. John, USVI On Mon, Dec 12, 2016 at 1:44 PM, sharongbrown@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Fresh water accumulator
ya_fohi
Hi,
When I run a water tap the pressure drops very low until the pump kicks in. The result is that the water pressure from the tap is very up and down. This never used to happen. Looking at the pressure gauge on the accumulator, when water is being used the the pressure drops very quickly and the pump then kicks in. The cycle is probably about 3 seconds. Would any one know what the problem might be? My accumulator is a large stainless cylinder and does not seem to have a valve where one could re-pressure it (unlike the smaller ones I have seen on other boats). Thanks, Paul Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charging AGM batteries
ya_fohi
After installing new batteries I checked the voltage at the battery 24v circuit and it was reading about 60V. I immediately disconnected the solar regulator and it dropped to 26V. I repeated this to be sure. So it looks like the problem was caused by the solar regulator failure. I have been advised to replace it with a Blue Sky unit.
Re. charger, position 1 (lead acid) on my Dolphin charger conforms to the voltage limits specified on the batteries. Thanks for all the feedback. Paul Amel 54 Ya Fohi #98 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
Great! Thanks for the information. Sounds like a good solution. If I can't find the alarm I want commercially I might put one together from some relays. Bill Kinney SM#169 Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL On Dec 12, 2016, at 03:03, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
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Re: climma heater
Just so you know, SM 209 experienced the exact same failure this week. Seems our time is up :) I will post if/when I find a solution. I expect an answer from one of the vendors shortly
Gary W. SM 209, "Adagio" Fethiye, Turkey .. |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Bill:
Some years ago the seal on the Dessalator low pressure pump failed while the water maker was running. This filled my gray water bilge with sea water. The Amel installed bilge pump alarm sounded and fortunately no damage was done as the water didn't rise high enough. I had no idea how long the bilge pump had been running and wondered what would have happened if the bilge water level alarm had not operated. At that time I installed a Borel Manufacturing alarm that was a bilge water level alarm as well as a "Run On Timer Alarm" in that it would alarm if the bilge pump ran for more than a set time. It has both a light and a sonalert aural beeping loud alarm that would wake you up in the aft for forward cabin if sleeping. This has been a wonderful asset and has worked flawlessly for many years now. I test it almost every day I am aboard. I looked just now at Borel Manufacturing web site and while there is title for this alarm I don't see it depicted. I don't know if this is a web site glitch or if they don't offer it any more. It was relatively in-expensive as I recall. Might be worth a call to them to enquire about it. They had great service. I would be very uncomfortable without a bilge pump run on alarm and a secondary bilge water level alarm. In sailing, like in aviation, redundancy in systems is a safety enhancement. Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 335 Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Bill Kinney,
Can you post a picture of your 24 volt panel with its bilge high water alarm? Just curious as to what it would look like. Derick Gates SM2K#400 Brava |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
I use the Maretron system - DSM and N2KView s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Sunday, December 11, 2016 5:00 PM, "Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote: Jamie, What's the source for your count/run time alarm? Bill Kinney On Dec 11, 2016, at 15:00, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
Jamie, What's the source for your count/run time alarm? Bill Kinney On Dec 11, 2016, at 15:00, James Wendell ms42phantom54@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
I too have a high level alarm, but it would only sound off if the bilge pump fails and the bilge fills up. I would view it as a last resort but an important one nonetheless. I have tested it and it works fine. Jamie s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Sunday, December 11, 2016 4:36 PM, "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote: Hi Bill K. We have a high water alarm that triggers a bell if water rises above a normal point in the engine room bilge well. Also wired to the alarm are sensors under the forward companion way floor (outside the forward head) and in the master cabin under the floor (outside the aft head). I believe all of these were installed by the previous (first) owner. With best regards, Mark Super Maramu 2000 Hull #275 www.creampuff.us Currently cruising: Tampa Bay From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:05 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure I am curious… our Amel has a hard-wired “high bilge level” alarm on the main 24V switch panel. A piercing loud buzzer if the water level in the sump rises beyond normal. It looks to be factory installed. Was this not a standard feature? Just as a thought, if you have ANY kind of emergency alarm like this, be sure you put testing it on your regular maintenance schedule. In my previous industrial life, I had seen a number of disasters occur when a “failsafe” switch had failed and no one knew because it wasn’t routinely used and then it wasn’t available when needed! Of course such an alarm will not help you losing your freshwater if the bilge pump puts it all overboard. I do wish Amel had divided the fresh water tank into two independent tanks... We always carry 10 gallons of “emergency water” in jerry cans just in case of… whatever. Enough to last us at least a week in extremis and I figure we are very, very, rarely more than a week away from a harbor if we really needed to get to one. Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL. Preparing for the Bahamas. Next week? “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Hi Bill K.
We have a high water alarm that triggers a bell if water rises above a normal point in the engine room bilge well. Also wired to the alarm are sensors under the forward companion way floor (outside the forward head) and in the master cabin under the floor (outside the aft head). I believe all of these were installed by the previous (first) owner.
With best regards,
Mark
Super Maramu 2000 Hull #275 www.creampuff.us Currently cruising: Tampa Bay
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 3:05 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
I am curious… our Amel has a hard-wired “high bilge level” alarm on the main 24V switch panel. A piercing loud buzzer if the water level in the sump rises beyond normal. It looks to be factory installed. Was this not a standard feature?
Just as a thought, if you have ANY kind of emergency alarm like this, be sure you put testing it on your regular maintenance schedule. In my previous industrial life, I had seen a number of disasters occur when a “failsafe” switch had failed and no one knew because it wasn’t routinely used and then it wasn’t available when needed!
Of course such an alarm will not help you losing your freshwater if the bilge pump puts it all overboard. I do wish Amel had divided the fresh water tank into two independent tanks...
We always carry 10 gallons of “emergency water” in jerry cans just in case of… whatever. Enough to last us at least a week in extremis and I figure we are very, very, rarely more than a week away from a harbor if we really needed to get to one.
Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL. Preparing for the Bahamas. Next week? “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
I am curious… our Amel has a hard-wired “high bilge level” alarm on the main 24V switch panel. A piercing loud buzzer if the water level in the sump rises beyond normal. It looks to be factory installed. Was this not a standard feature?
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Just as a thought, if you have ANY kind of emergency alarm like this, be sure you put testing it on your regular maintenance schedule. In my previous industrial life, I had seen a number of disasters occur when a “failsafe” switch had failed and no one knew because it wasn’t routinely used and then it wasn’t available when needed! Of course such an alarm will not help you losing your freshwater if the bilge pump puts it all overboard. I do wish Amel had divided the fresh water tank into two independent tanks... We always carry 10 gallons of “emergency water” in jerry cans just in case of… whatever. Enough to last us at least a week in extremis and I figure we are very, very, rarely more than a week away from a harbor if we really needed to get to one. Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Fort Lauderdale, FL. Preparing for the Bahamas. Next week? “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
James Wendell <ms42phantom54@...>
Good advice all. I just now set up a bilge pump timer alarm. It alarms when the pump runs for more than 5 minutes total. I also have the option of alarming on counts, but sometimes the pump cycles a lot if you are taking showers or running the washing machine. The timer is what seems to work for me. I now prescribe to the "Water Pump Off" unless actually needed philosophy. Thanks for the excellent comments. Bill, I noticed I am moored right next to BeBe in Francis Bay. Is that you or the new owner? Jamie s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 On Sunday, December 11, 2016 1:56 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote: Hi all, I'll come in on this too to tell our got off lightly story. Within months of beginning our adventures in 2009 we went ashore. On return we heard the bilge pump running. There was a pin hole (quite a big pin hole) in the water heater and we had left the fresh water pump on. Had we not returned when we did 900 liters of water would have been pumped into the engine room. Had the bilge pump failed for any reason......... Since then we have a rule that the water pump is off when we are not using water, any where any time. To have a rule that it is off sometimes invites forgetfulness. We have added a bilge buzzer and are pleased to have it. The cruising world is awash with bilge flooding stories (pun intended) and adding the buzzer was a cheap insurance. Cheers Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" To: amelyachtowners@... Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 5:24 AM Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure Hi James, Sorry to hear of your woes. This summer I installed a bright red LED at the helm. The LED is bright enough to see in daylight. It is parallel wired to the red bilge light on the 24v panel. It was very easy to install and allows the person on watch to notice when the bilge pump kicks on. When underway, we make it a habit to turn off the 24v fresh water pump. If there is a leak anywhere in the fresh water pressurized system it will not pump water into the bilge. We do this because we have heard too many times from sailing friends stories similar to yours. Another option would be to install a green LED at the helm and connect it to the fresh water light on the 24v panel. Another item you may want to add to your spare parts is a couple of squares of rubber gasket material. This can be very handy when in a pinch. Of course, you will need a very sharp blade to make gaskets. Hope this helps With best regards, Mark Super Maramu 2000 Hull #275 www.creampuff.us Currently cruising: Tampa Bay From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:32 AM To: Yahoo! Inc. Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure I do not know if others have had water heater problems, but I thought I should post something about my hot water heater issues that might help others avoid the problem I had. On our crossing to the Caribbean, we lost all of our fresh water - into the bilge and over the side. The bilge pump sure did its job. No one noticed that the bilge pump was running way too much, and when we tried to use the galley faucet there was no water. At first I assumed the pump had failed, but when I went down into the engine room I saw water pouring out of the front of the hot water heater. The main water tank was empty by then. We had to scramble to bypass the water heater (Isotemp 40L) and found that the main gasket that holds the heating element assembly in the tank had ruptured. Upon taking it apart it was found completely carbonized and literally fell apart. Bypassing the water system to allow us to continue using fresh water was no small task either, but we managed to cobble together a short hose to seal off the intake and outtake at the heater. The problem there is that BOTH sides of the water passthrough are pressurized - very surprising and we could not figure out how that could be true (the Amel drawings show exactly what is expected, so presumably someone modified the installation). Normally only the cold water side would be pressurized upstream of the water heater. A quick call to Great Water in Florida worked and they rushed out spare parts. We had to replace the main gasket, faceplate, and the 230V electric element as well. They had all corroded. I have heard others talk of a zinc, but I do not see any and the manual is different from the one in the boat. Fortunately we were able to keep our crossing schedule and did not have to return to port, thanks to the water maker. After this failure, I keep spare water heater parts around. It seems that 10 years is about it for the gaskets and elements. It is worth replacing them early on. This is not a problem I would have planned for, as water heaters seem pretty benign, but have learned how important it is. Thanks, Jamie s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
webercardio <webercardio@...>
Flooded bilge or engine room is a big problem. Your led will not help if you have a leakage of the tube running from the motor heatexchanger to the hot watermaker -what happened to an other Amel. And saltwater in the engine room is the worest . I put in wireless alarm for flooded water. Very easy and not expensive - combined with a burglar alarm. Ankering in Mesalongi / Greek we had in the morning 2 people in the cockpit - looking to steal something . Now the cockpit is also protected by alarming sensors - ALL connected to a wireless Alarm system by Olympia for 150€. Aded more devices for the ruderbilge etc -each for 15-20€ . Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Hi all, I'll come in on this too to tell our got off lightly story. Within months of beginning our adventures in 2009 we went ashore. On return we heard the bilge pump running. There was a pin hole (quite a big pin hole) in the water heater and we had left the fresh water pump on. Had we not returned when we did 900 liters of water would have been pumped into the engine room. Had the bilge pump failed for any reason......... Since then we have a rule that the water pump is off when we are not using water, any where any time. To have a rule that it is off sometimes invites forgetfulness. We have added a bilge buzzer and are pleased to have it. The cruising world is awash with bilge flooding stories (pun intended) and adding the buzzer was a cheap insurance. Cheers Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" To: amelyachtowners@... Sent: Monday, 12 December 2016 5:24 AM Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure Hi James, Sorry to hear of your woes. This summer I installed a bright red LED at the helm. The LED is bright enough to see in daylight. It is parallel wired to the red bilge light on the 24v panel. It was very easy to install and allows the person on watch to notice when the bilge pump kicks on. When underway, we make it a habit to turn off the 24v fresh water pump. If there is a leak anywhere in the fresh water pressurized system it will not pump water into the bilge. We do this because we have heard too many times from sailing friends stories similar to yours. Another option would be to install a green LED at the helm and connect it to the fresh water light on the 24v panel. Another item you may want to add to your spare parts is a couple of squares of rubber gasket material. This can be very handy when in a pinch. Of course, you will need a very sharp blade to make gaskets. Hope this helps With best regards, Mark Super Maramu 2000 Hull #275 www.creampuff.us Currently cruising: Tampa Bay From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:32 AM To: Yahoo! Inc. Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure I do not know if others have had water heater problems, but I thought I should post something about my hot water heater issues that might help others avoid the problem I had. On our crossing to the Caribbean, we lost all of our fresh water - into the bilge and over the side. The bilge pump sure did its job. No one noticed that the bilge pump was running way too much, and when we tried to use the galley faucet there was no water. At first I assumed the pump had failed, but when I went down into the engine room I saw water pouring out of the front of the hot water heater. The main water tank was empty by then. We had to scramble to bypass the water heater (Isotemp 40L) and found that the main gasket that holds the heating element assembly in the tank had ruptured. Upon taking it apart it was found completely carbonized and literally fell apart. Bypassing the water system to allow us to continue using fresh water was no small task either, but we managed to cobble together a short hose to seal off the intake and outtake at the heater. The problem there is that BOTH sides of the water passthrough are pressurized - very surprising and we could not figure out how that could be true (the Amel drawings show exactly what is expected, so presumably someone modified the installation). Normally only the cold water side would be pressurized upstream of the water heater. A quick call to Great Water in Florida worked and they rushed out spare parts. We had to replace the main gasket, faceplate, and the 230V electric element as well. They had all corroded. I have heard others talk of a zinc, but I do not see any and the manual is different from the one in the boat. Fortunately we were able to keep our crossing schedule and did not have to return to port, thanks to the water maker. After this failure, I keep spare water heater parts around. It seems that 10 years is about it for the gaskets and elements. It is worth replacing them early on. This is not a problem I would have planned for, as water heaters seem pretty benign, but have learned how important it is. Thanks, Jamie s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
Hi James,
Sorry to hear of your woes. This summer I installed a bright red LED at the helm. The LED is bright enough to see in daylight. It is parallel wired to the red bilge light on the 24v panel. It was very easy to install and allows the person on watch to notice when the bilge pump kicks on.
When underway, we make it a habit to turn off the 24v fresh water pump. If there is a leak anywhere in the fresh water pressurized system it will not pump water into the bilge. We do this because we have heard too many times from sailing friends stories similar to yours. Another option would be to install a green LED at the helm and connect it to the fresh water light on the 24v panel.
Another item you may want to add to your spare parts is a couple of squares of rubber gasket material. This can be very handy when in a pinch. Of course, you will need a very sharp blade to make gaskets.
Hope this helps
With best regards,
Mark
Super Maramu 2000 Hull #275 www.creampuff.us Currently cruising: Tampa Bay
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2016 8:32 AM To: Yahoo! Inc. Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hot Water Heater Failure
I do not know if others have had water heater problems, but I thought I should post something about my hot water heater issues that might help others avoid the problem I had. On our crossing to the Caribbean, we lost all of our fresh water - into the bilge and over the side. The bilge pump sure did its job. No one noticed that the bilge pump was running way too much, and when we tried to use the galley faucet there was no water. At first I assumed the pump had failed, but when I went down into the engine room I saw water pouring out of the front of the hot water heater. The main water tank was empty by then.
We had to scramble to bypass the water heater (Isotemp 40L) and found that the main gasket that holds the heating element assembly in the tank had ruptured. Upon taking it apart it was found completely carbonized and literally fell apart. Bypassing the water system to allow us to continue using fresh water was no small task either, but we managed to cobble together a short hose to seal off the intake and outtake at the heater. The problem there is that BOTH sides of the water passthrough are pressurized - very surprising and we could not figure out how that could be true (the Amel drawings show exactly what is expected, so presumably someone modified the installation). Normally only the cold water side would be pressurized upstream of the water heater.
A quick call to Great Water in Florida worked and they rushed out spare parts. We had to replace the main gasket, faceplate, and the 230V electric element as well. They had all corroded. I have heard others talk of a zinc, but I do not see any and the manual is different from the one in the boat. Fortunately we were able to keep our crossing schedule and did not have to return to port, thanks to the water maker. After this failure, I keep spare water heater parts around. It seems that 10 years is about it for the gaskets and elements. It is worth replacing them early on. This is not a problem I would have planned for, as water heaters seem pretty benign, but have learned how important it is.
Thanks, Jamie
s/v Phantom Amel 54 #044 |
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