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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] What to do with the hole...
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
No depth in a heavy rain? Ouch… I hadn’t noticed that cause and effect yet. It might be “normal” but it’s hardly acceptable. All the more reason to retire it.
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Airmar makes a variety of different combination transducers for speed, depth and seawater temperature including several “smart” transducers that can simply plug into my NMEA2000 backbone with a minimum of wiring, and without need for supporting computing hardware. (Why would I want seawater temperature? To catch more fish, of course!) Then the question is, for speed do I use a traditional paddlewheel? or the CS4500 ultrasonic speed sensor? Right now the original B&G Hydra 2 processor is being used only to push NMEA0183 data from the original wind and sonic speed sensors into the chartplotter and NMEA2000 bus. I’d like to keep it on a path to an eventual long earned retirement and not connect new things to it. Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Hilton Head, SC, Headed further south in a day or two. “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Rick, Most diesels will last 10,000 hours and especially Yanmar. The owner of our previous boat niw has 13,000 hours on her. Of course you can kill a diesel in 100 hours if you try. And, most importantly, diesel engines have changed in the last 6 or 8 years from mostly mechanical, reliable, never fail if they get fuel, to computer controlled engines, with sensors and real problems that you need a computer to talk to the engine computer to diagnose. In my opinion, you will never replace those great non-computer diesel engines for an EPA approved computer-run diesel engine! Rebuild it for sure! Bill Rouse On Nov 12, 2016 3:08 PM, "devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: 24VDC Gas Solenoid Valve
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Duane, Most production boats use a cheap 12 volt solenoid. Amel uses a German made precision solenoid valve that will cost around $150. It will be hard to find in normal chandeliers because most boaters are looking for the cheapest solution rather than the best solution, but Amel will always have it and a union will work if yours happens to fail. The one I bought from Amel in Martinique had been on the shelf for five years...they don't fail! Bill Rouse On Nov 12, 2016 2:48 PM, "sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] What to do with the hole...
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
I am not sure this answers the question, but the B&G depth sounder will lose its fix in a heavy rain. That is normal. I have to believe that Airmar makes a combo speed and depth transducer for B&G. Have you checked that? Bill Rouse On Nov 12, 2016 2:22 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
devaxmangor@...
Thank you Alexandre,
I definitely plan on taking all the ASA courses I can. As I think I mentioned in another post, I am obsessive/compulsive when it comes to learning, so I enjoy the process. Can you point me to a place to download the service manuals? I have read somewhere that there are some in this group? If not I will do a search, but just in case you had it handy somewhere it would be greatly appreciated. RE: Basic Diesel. Definitely want to do this. However, I've also read that there are more in-depth classes specific to the engine manufacturer. I have heard that Yanmar does these sort of classes (haven't really researched this yet but came across it - haven't heard of Volvo doing it but I would be surprised if they don't). I would assumed then that these courses would be considerably more intensive than the Basic Diesel? I can see taking one of these as a top-list item in my book. Overkill? I've constantly heard the "live on the boat for one year before you decided to make any modifications/fixes/upgrades" and it seems quite logical. Something you thought you'd want may turn out to be a non-factor. RE: sharing your survey. If it has anything that would help me understand some of the typical wear factors (and maybe not so typical) on the Amel for future reference when I am at that stage, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you for the 20% figure. I had estimated 10% per year, but I can see how the first couple of years there maybe additional modifications/upgrades to get it to what would be right for us (I don't use the word perfect because I know that is a trap to get stuck never finishing - been there done that). Glad to know that the 15-20 hours is accurate on weekly maintenance. Heard that number about other boats and knowing from an experienced Amel owner gives that figure more weight. RE: parts. Thankfully, reading through SV BeBe's blog I can clearly see the costs and time associated with trying to obtain parts at foreign ports. The plans would be to stock up on just about as much spare parts/units that I can carry, and it appears that the Amel's have plenty of storage. Thank you for sharing your spare parts list. Engine hours is amazing. I though that an engine would get long in the tooth at around 3,000 hours and would need to be changed. I really need to learn more about diesel engines! Thank you for tightening up my budgets. Starting to work on my spreadsheets and this will help a lot. Can't tell you how glad I am that I found this forum and posters like yourself and the rest. A great support group is also something that will definitely influence my decision on purchasing an Amel. Good luck to your continued endeavors. Cheers, Rick Gutierrez |
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Re: 24VDC Gas Solenoid Valve
sailor63109@...
Bill,
Thanks for the reference. I've had gas solenoids go bad on charter boats, always makes for a bad day. We plan to at least get the 1/4 Union. Thanks, Duane Wanderer, SM477 |
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
jandrkennedy@...
Hi Rick There is a tax, and it is 15% - but for some reason all boats seem to be more expensive down here, most likely reflects the distance and also supply and demand. I am hoping to have my business sold in the first half of next year and then I am into my search in earnest. I believe I will probably end up purchasing in the US or Europe and slowly working my way back to the south pacfic. And will certainly keep in touch - I hope to be able to ask lots of questions and look forward to meeting some Amel owners. Good luck and keep at it. Jim |
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
devaxmangor@...
Thank you Bob. Definitely on my to-do list, at least for me. I don't think I can get the wife interested in doing a long passage yet. Hopefully that would change - but I have time.
Thank you for the referral with Hank Schmitt. Into my list of important sailing contacts. I think I will try to crew until after I have undergone all the training and local sailing club time. Don't want to be dead weight! Another very experience voice mirroring the choice for #1. I think I'm in that camp also now. Although I love fixing and tinkering, I see that a boat will give me plenty of opportunities to do that with just the regular maintenance items. I've heard that name before in a blog somewhere, so I have him also in my sailing list. Thank you for that. Take care. Rick Gutierrez |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] What to do with the hole...
Hola from Panama, Bill. I'm glad to hear that your new sounder works without a new thru-hull. You say it works like a fish-finder...does it give a 3-dimensional picture of the bottom? Where did you install it in the hull? My old EchoPilot only gave a two-dimensional view about 1 1/2 boat lengths ahead at slow speed and shallow conditions. The transducer has died and I'm waiting until the 3-dimensional forward sonars get less expensive before I replace it. Two years ago the best ones required two new thru-hulls 18"apart. Some newer ones had a single transducer that swept from side to side, but the picture wasn't as good. Both types were very expensive. If I could add a new one that gave a 3-dimensional picture without new thru-hulls, I'd probably spring for one now. To answer your question, I would leave your B&G sounder in place as a backup even if it can be quirky at times. When mine goes out at a bad time, I'm blind. Does anyone have a solution to the irregular function of the B&G? I've checked and redone all connections with no effect. Thanks, Kent SM243 Kristy Panama |
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What to do with the hole...
greatketch@...
As part of the instrument upgrades on my boat I installed an in-hull depth transducer. It works great, giving me a real fish-finder display on the chartplotter without a hole in the hull. That means that the original B&G depth transducer is now redundant. A redundant hole in the hull is something that is quite contrary to the Amel design, and to my own thinking. So my question for you all is: What would you do with what is now an extra hole in the hull? And why? Some extra background: My original sonic speed sensor still works (almost all of the time). I love it when it works, and hate it when it doesn't. It is very prone to electrical interference. It stops working whenever the inverter is on, for example. And other times it give nonsensical results for no obvious reason. Then it works fine for days at a time and I think it is great again. But like a bad lover who sometimes lies to you, it's hard to trust it the way I should. I see a few options:
Thoughts? Bill Kinney SM#160 Harmonie Hilton Head Island, SC, Heading south in a day or two. |
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
Bob Fritz
Rick,
You have a good plan, but there is an important bit of training that you should include. Before you put down big bucks on a boat, be sure that you and your wife, if she plans to go, do a long offshore passage. I say this as I spent several years training prospective offshore sailors prior to purchasing the boat of their dreams. The passages were a minimum of at least a thousand miles in the North Atlantic. Sometimes easy, sometimes rough and often a mix of both. Bottom line is at the end, most were enthusiastic, but maybe a third decided that it was fun, but they would stick to coastal sailing with their current boat. A very few hated it. There are stories of inexperienced sailors who after reaching their first port, put their boat up for sale, or hired someone like me to bring their boat home. They had not had a happy voyage. One easy way to gain offshore experience is to contact Hank Schmitt Offshore Passage Opportunities. He runs a service putting owners and crew together. With respect to Amels, I have close to 50K ocean miles delivering various ones. I have tremendous respect for these boats and would take them anywhere in the world without question. All that I have sailed have been in good to excellent condition with the single exception of a very neglected boat. You should stick with Plan 1, so you don't waste valuable time and money in a refit. DO NOT buy an Amel with the dreaded owner modifications. In my experience, modifications are not an improvement over the original and decrease the value of the boat. Lastly, do not use just any broker when you are looking for an Amel. When the time comes to purchase an Amel, contact Joel Potter in Florida. He knows Amels inside out and the history of each of the boats he sells. Good luck with your plan. Bob Fritz Arrowsic Island, Maine. |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Antenna Mystery
smnefeli
Jean,
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you are perfectly right: the "latin sail" is more ancient and more complicate to handle. The "gaff sail" (voile aurique) is an evolution. Best Regards, Daniela & Fernando s/y Nefeli SM #38 Rodney Bay - S.L. On 11 Nov 2016, at 23:32, 'Jean Boucharlat' jean.boucharlat@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Good morning Rick,
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Going over your post. I definitely recommend you and your wife take all ASA classes you can, so that you speak the same language and sometime don’t even need to communicate while docking. I took up to 106 (which I took twice to gain additional experience), also took twice the docking. Basic diesel (not an ASA class) is necessary as you will want to do basic oil change, fuel filter change, etc. Also, download the several Owner Manuals (they are all a little different) and read them over and over. I totally agree with you on living onboard 1 year before starting your trip, this is what I did (9 months) this will give you an idea on some of the maintenance. In 2012, I purchase my SM2K 2000 for 230.000 Euro in Martinique. Nowadays they are likely to be around 200.000 Euro (so $220.000). My vessel was in very good condition, will be glad to share the survey with you. If I were you, I would go with a vessel that has been continuously maintained, otherwise it will cost you way more. I was told I was going to spend 20% the first year, didn’t believe it, and did it for the first 3 years, but I am meticulous and everything has to be working. I started to write my costs, but put on hold for now as I felt it was doing a disfavor. After purchasing the boat, I wanted a fresh start on everything so did the 5 year maintenance on generator, engine (new injector, clean heat exchanger, new turbo, etc.), water maker (new membrane, etc.), scuba compressor complete overhaul, new mizzen sail, etc. Personally I spend between 15 to 20 hours maintaining the boat per week, more when parts broke. Spare parts… If you are sailing around the US coast, then not a big issue. If you go further, like I did to the Bahamas, Turks & Caicos, Dominican Republic then another story. In the Bahamas where I spent 15 months plus 3 months in Turks & Caicos, if you don’t have the parts onboard and either need to buy local or have shipped, it will cost you 3.5 time what you would have paid in the US. In Dominican Republic where I spent 3 months, you will simply never receive the part, as it takes over 1 month simply to go through customs. So keep that in mind. Here is a partial list of my spare parts: http://nikimat.com/spare_parts.html This doesn’t include yet for bicycle (spare tube, tires, brakes, etc.), spare fresh water pump, spare bilge pump, etc. I try to carry 6 years of spare parts. As a 2000 model I have 5000 hours on the engine. I expect the engine to last another 5000 hour (another 15 years). 2000 hours on the generator, I expect it to last up to 10.000 hours. To overall the water mater I spent 2000$ Standing rigging, will cost you a lot more than 7K$ (I think many said $12k) You didn’t mention running rigging, the genoa sheet alone is $1000. If you need to change the sails, and want to use a strong and durable quality like hydranet it will cost you over 20K$. Batteries will be less than 2000$ 20k$ on electronics??? Personally I am using 3 iPad and 3 Bad Elf, but I have for over 5000$ of paper charts… Bilge pump should be less. If you don’t scuba dive, then a Hookha is a good idea to check your hull, clean propeller, etc. Could continue to write… but every trip is different. Don’t hesitate is you have question. Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 11/11/16, Rick Gutierrez devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Help - 5-Year Plan To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> Date: Friday, November 11, 2016, 12:26 PM Hello All, I must first apologize for the long and rambling message. I tend to think out loud when I write and it helps me put things in logical order. In order to help you ignore the rest of this message if this does not interest you here goes the short version - complete noob’s 5-year plan to retire and get boat to travel. I am in desperate need of anyone’s advice, warnings, and experiences to increase the chances of a successful journey. Background50-year old who got the green light from my wonderful wife (after a few cocktails) to explore getting a sail boat to travel after our youngest son (two older girls, one a freshman at U. of Oregon, other a Junior in HS) makes it to college - 5 years from now (he is an 8th grader). Neither of us has ANY sailing experience whatsoever, but I am capable and willing. I am somewhat of an obsessive/compulsive and love to learn. Rather spend my time reading/watching/researching then watching TV at night. Have currently spent well over 300 hours over the past 40 days doing so and counting. I am a hands-on tinkerer and feel confident to be able to do most/if not all work on boat with proper documentation/assistance. Current LocationSouthern California (Moorpark to be precise). Nearest harbor is Ventura/Oxnard. GoalsLearn! Starting to look at the local options for instruction and opportunity to sail. Looks like starting off at a local public sponsored school/club would be a solid way of getting feet wet. Considering joining a sail club with shared maintenance responsibilities and crewing opportunities. A few local options for that (any locals with insight much appreciated). Both also have full ASA courses which I plan to take as many as possible.Take all types of classes possible (did I mention I love learning) including all safety and first aid courses (already Wilderness First Aid trained due to extensive outdoor Boy Scout volunteer work as well as a rock climbing instructor courses). Also take any USCG classes available that would be of value (any advice here would be appreciated).Purchase boat in 4-5 years and get her ready.Sail and live-aboard for at least one year locally to see if it works for wife and I before taking the adventure to the next level. If it doesn’t work out - sell boat and take the loss as a learning experience. If it does workout, awesome! Do coastal cruising for at least 1 or 2 years before extending range. Wife not too comfortable in wanting to try long passages, so hope to grow her into comfort zone, if not crew boat and have her meet at destination.etc. BoatThe reason I am here is I have decided that the Amel SuperMaramu/Maramu is the boat of preference for us. If anyone has another suggestion, I am all ears. I started looking at steel and aluminum boats due to safety concerns. I want my wife to feel comfortable and confident and the more I can minimize risk, the more comfortable she will feel. I have not found steel/aluminum boat that I liked or that was in a reasonable price range. I do not feel comfortable with self-built boats (i.e. Roberts). Came across the Amel boats through CreamPuff (thanks for that Mark & Cindy) and agree with their well thought out reasoning for purchasing. So I will not repeat it here. Besides, I think I would be preaching to the choir! If anyone has any other boat that fits that criteria that they would recommend - please let me know (don’t really care for the Hans-Christians). BudgetWe are planning on a $250,000 budget for the boat (not accounting for inflation). I might be able to push the budget to $300K, just depends on how our investments do over the course of the next 4-5 years. Here are the two approaches as I see it: 1 - Purchase the newest Amel that fits our budget, then repair/replace as little gear as possible to not bust the budget. 2 - Purchase an older Amel (post ’96?) and completely replace all critical gear and update and try to not bust the budget! I am more inclined to #2 because I think the hands-on process of replacing all critical gear would be invaluable for later on. I have no fear of putting in new engine, new generator, watermaker, electronics, standing gear, etc. etc. etc. Especially due to the nature of the quality build of the Amel, I also am not too concerned with purchasing an older boat (am I way off here?). If we choose to do #2, would the following be a good rule of thumb on costs?: New Yanmar 100 HP engine and install - $20K (a little cushion for ancillary and miscellaneous costs)New Onan Generator - $15KWatermaker/Desalinator - $5KStanding Rigging - $7KSails - $15KNew Electronics/navionics - $20KNew Batteries - $3KBilge pumps - $3KAdditional Miscellaneous - $15K??? I know I can probably rebuilt some of these, and might depending on condition, but might as well plan for the total package. Is there something major that I am missing? I know there is, just don’t know enough to know enough! ;) So looks like our boat budget will be REALLY tight! Traveling BudgetUsing the 4% rule, we can safely be in the range that S/V Bebe has recorded and shared (thank you so much for that Bill and Judy - you rock!). I am a numbers cruncher and their spreadsheet has been an invaluable resource. We will have enough of a cushion left over, so I feel fortunate and blessed that we can realistically do this. Fingers crossed that our investments remain healthy over the next phase of inflation that is invariably coming. If you have read this far - Thank you. I know that this list needs to be expanded by a factor of 10! Any advice or changes would be very much appreciated. My feeling will not get hurt if you tell me that I am totally way off and am totally clueless because I know I am! In the rock climbing community, the common reply to most any posts is usually “Yer gonna die!”, so I’m used to it! ;) Anyway, thank you for your patience and for any help in anticipation. Cheers! Rick Gutierrez |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
Patrick McAneny
Rick, I believe that over all your assessment of Amels and their owners are spot on. While there are some exceptions , as there are in most things , most Amels are well maintained. I know many owners and have been aboard many Amels and anyone of them , if for sale , would require little beyond normal maintenance items. In the price range you mentioned , you would be able to find an Amel in very good condition. There is no reason to believe that you would need to budget for major expenses such as replacing engines. Having said that , it is very good to have money in your budget for unforeseen expenses that could and will arise. Having said that, my boat was built in 1994 and I have owned it for ten years and have not had any major problem or expense . That's not to say , that I have not spent tens of thousands , but most outlays were optional , to upgrade electronics , canvas , rigging , sails , awlgrip , lighting ,etc. You will not regret owning an Amel , you have made a good choice.
Good Luck,
Pat SM#123 -----Original Message----- From: devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Fri, Nov 11, 2016 7:21 pm Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help - 5-Year Plan Thank you Pat. Yes, one of the many reasons that I know that an Amel is the way to go is because you can clearly see that most, if not all available on the market are in very good condition. In fact, I don't think I've seen one for sale that was in disrepair. That tells me a lot about pride of ownership and the type of people who own Amel boats.
Thanks.
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
You are getting to know owners now. Bill Rouse On Nov 12, 2016 2:58 AM, "devaxmangor@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
devaxmangor@...
Hi Jim,
Glad to find another like-minded dreamer on here! ;) I see that the few Amels down there are quite expensive. I can't remember but I think the import taxes for Australia are pretty insane. Same in NZ? Good luck and please keep us posted on your progress. Maybe I can live vicariously through what you are doing and hopefully follow you a couple years later! Cheers, Rick Gutierrez |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
Rick,
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Just to prep you a bit… expecting brokers to introduce you to the owners before you buy the boat is most likely an unrealistic expectation. There are always exceptions, but… for the most part experienced brokers know that personalities can easily torpedo a deal that would otherwise go sailing through and are VERY reluctant to introduce buyers and sellers before, or even after, the sale. They really want to keep the negotiations and transaction an “arm’s length” deal. You can insist, and that would be your right, of course. But I’d be surprised it it worked in your favor in the grand scheme of things. With a little bit of experience, you’ll know as soon as you walk onto a boat if it was well cared for—or not. That’s not to say that information about the seller isn’t useful, and a little research about the boat might steer you to a blog or other info that could be very helpful. Bill Kinney SM #160, Harmonie Hilton Head Island, SC “Ships and men rot in port."
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
jandrkennedy@...
Rick - a great post and really mirrors my thinking and you did a great job of putting it into words
I am going to be in the market next year for a Santorin or possibly a Super Maramu and watching the "Yachts for Sale" sites and seeing quite a variation from 150-400K with most around the 250k mark for the SM, does make you ask the question - do I get a cheap one and spend time and money fixing it - but on reading the comments specially Bill's I think it might be better get one as per the discussion. I saw a month or so ago an owner selling his SM and here was very fair it seemed to me with the price as I recall he said the hours on the motor were high, so it would need replacing soon and he was upfront with that, that is the type of visibility you want when you are ready to buy. If I was in the market now I would have contacted him, and I will probably send an email when I am ready. I live in New Zealand so I am probably going to come to America or Europe to buy my Amel, and take a year or two to come back to NZ and is while I am happy to spend 3 months tinkering and fixing things as well as get used to the nuances - buying one that is very run down and having to spend a year of more fixing everything would be a bit too much. I think Bills comments are spot on. I see Amel have a brokerage - and was wondering if this means they have given these the once over and you are likely to get a slightly better boat from their brokerage? Jim |
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
devaxmangor@...
Thank you Bill. Very wise of you to mention paying attention to the sellers. I will be keenly aware and will only buy a boat if I'm able to meet the owners (not just the broker).
I'm still reading through your blog and I think I'm up to 2007. Enjoying the read. Thank you both for taking the time to share - incredibly insightful and inspiring. Take care, Rick Gutierrez |
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Re: Help - 5-Year Plan
devaxmangor@...
Thank you for the kind welcome Jean-Pierre,
Love your pride in owning the most expensive Amel in the world! lol Thank you for sharing your expensive experience with me. I will definitely be taking that to heart and adjusting my preference to #1. And I'm sure that your extensive list is probably not even comprehensive to what you did. Wow! Thanks for the cruisers thread link. I have been lurking in the shadows but hadn't found that one. Take care, Rick Gutierrez |
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