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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker
Patrick McAneny
Gary, Thanks for you detailed post, I will print it out and follow it. I wish pickling was not necessary ( read boat in Caribbean) , but a grandchild coming in Feb. can somehow mess with ones sailing schedule.
Thanks Again,
Pat SM # 123 -----Original Message----- From: amelliahona To: amelyachtowners Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 11:26 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Pickling watermaker Hi All: The last reply is correct, in that the propylene glycol (NOT to be confused with ethylene glycol) antifreeze solution is too large of a molecule to penetrate the RO (reverse osmosis) membranes.
You should NOT raise the pressure in the system while circulating the anti-freeze solution. Only the water that the propylene glycol is diluted in will penetrate the membrane NOT the antifreeze.
You have to think of your system as two separate loops; A) the seawater side that includes the sea-chest, sea-water manifold, low pressure feed pump, pre-filters, high pressure pump, sea-water side of the membranes and housing, control panel plumbing with the pressure knob and associated plumbing, and the brine water rejection plumbing to overboard, and B) the fresh water side of the membranes, the control panel plumbing with the diverter valve, and the lines to the fresh water tank.
As you probably know I am against using meta-bisulfite for storage. It is corrosive and damages all metal parts. When using propylene glycol for winterization (anti-freeze protection) you need to protect both sides of the system. To protect the sea water side circulate the antifreeze solution thru the system WITHOUT RAISING THE PRESSURE. After having done that THEN using a syringe or other means of injecting some antifreeze solution flush the fresh water side by disconnecting the fresh water (product water) line at the membranes, allowing the membranes to drain, and then injecting some of the propylene glycol solution into the membrane cavity and thru the product water line. I would guess that only about 3 or 4 ounces of the antifreeze injected down the product water lines will be adequate as it is a small bore line and even less will fill the RO membrane center tube (disclaimer I
haven't actually winterized my boat but see this:
Note insert dots and slashes where indicated.
West Marine also has some information on their products for winterizing on their web site.
While there is no way to treat the entire fresh water contents of the membrane cavity (this isn't a loop that you can flush), the center product water tube will drain and you can back flush some antifreeze into that tube. There isn't a great deal of fresh water volume in there anyway. So let the fresh water side drain from the membranes, then fill as best you can with concentrated antifreeze then
re-connect the already flushed product water tubing to membranes fresh water line. The bulk of the volume of the cavity is filled with the membranes and the sea water volume. If what little fresh water there is in the cavity freezes it won't burst or damage the membranes as there is room for expansion provided by the sea-water side which won't freeze. That is my theory at least, as there is no way to circulate propylene glycol thru the fresh water side of the membranes.
Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335
Currently in Puerto Rico at Puerto Del Rey Marina
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Re: Pickling watermaker
greatketch@...
Pat,
I get mine from EBAY... Bill Kinney SM#160 Harmonie Annapolis, MD |
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Re: Pickling watermaker
greatketch@...
FYI: The recommended chemical for long term pickling and storage of Dessalator membranes is NOT Sodium metabisulfate (Na2S2O5) rather it is Sodium bisulfate (NaHSO4).
The long term storage solution should be 20% glycerin for freeze protection and 1% sodium bisulfate as a biocide. They are VERY different chemicals with similar sounding names. Sodium metabisulfate is ONLY for short term cleaning of the membrane NOT storage. Bill Kinney SM #160 Harmonie Annapolis, MD |
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Re: Windlass bolt to deck
sbmesasailor
In addition to cobalt drill bits, I've had good success with a product called AnchorLube. It seems to work especially well on stainless steel. Pretty cheap too. Dennis Johns Libertad Maramu #121 Grenada |
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Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
Herbert Lackner
We have a 4kw Panda with Kubota 1 cylinder engine. Very satisfied, runs every second day, reliable and silent. 0,5 l diesel per hour. Up to now only one problem, caused by the mechanic in Kusadasi that made „some enhancements“ to the exhaust system and did not use the original spare – water entry occured. But easy to repair engine and very good design. For an Amel installation a solenoid should be installed to separate battery minus from housing (connect only for starting). This year I upgraded it to use variable rpm based on load, works good and silent.
Fischer panda in germany has the best support I ever had with any technical equipment in my life, absolut extraordinary, at least due to this I would buy one again.
For me on the santorin it is not the questuon if I would buy a Fischer Panda or not, it is if I really need a genset, and my answer would be „no“ (like Ian on Ocean Hobo a portable genset, maybe Honda is also a good alternative). Enough Solar panels and the great shaft alternator should be enough. But if installing an genset for me the Panda is a very good choice.
Herbert Kali Mera SN 120, Trinidad
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
Jean-Pierre Germain <jgermain@...>
Hello James, I had a Honda 2000 on my last boat. It is not rated at 2 KW but at about 1.6 KW. The 1000 is also well under the 1 KW mark. GL On 20 Oct 2016, at 17:02, lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
James Alton
Ian,
I am curious about how the prop alternator has worked out for you. Would you have any rough data on how many amp hours per day you can get on a Trade Winds passage?
I would not want to add the complexity of a genset and built in A/C to my Maramu either. I am considering a Honda 1000 petrol portable genset as a back up to the solar.
Best,
James Alton
SV Sueno, Maramu #220
Sardinia, Italy
---- Original Message ---- From: Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] To: amelyachtowners Sent: Thu, Oct 20, 2016 4:01 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instal AC / Genset on Santorin Trevor
No AC but I did consider the genset. In the end the cost and upkeep put me off. I bought a 2000 watt petrol generator instead. It runs the mains battery charger if I need it and any mains voltage I require. The prop alternator and solar panels keeps things going well enough. My reasoning was that I could buy 5 petrol generators for the price of a diesel installation. I can also use it hauled out as it isn't seawater cooled. However if you do install AC then I would think a genset is a must.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96
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Re: Pickling watermaker
amelliahona <no_reply@...>
Hi All: The last reply is correct, in that the propylene glycol (NOT to be confused with ethylene glycol) antifreeze solution is too large of a molecule to penetrate the RO (reverse osmosis) membranes.
You should NOT raise the pressure in the system while circulating the anti-freeze solution. Only the water that the propylene glycol is diluted in will penetrate the membrane NOT the antifreeze. You have to think of your system as two separate loops; A) the seawater side that includes the sea-chest, sea-water manifold, low pressure feed pump, pre-filters, high pressure pump, sea-water side of the membranes and housing, control panel plumbing with the pressure knob and associated plumbing, and the brine water rejection plumbing to overboard, and B) the fresh water side of the membranes, the control panel plumbing with the diverter valve, and the lines to the fresh water tank. As you probably know I am against using meta-bisulfite for storage. It is corrosive and damages all metal parts. When using propylene glycol for winterization (anti-freeze protection) you need to protect both sides of the system. To protect the sea water side circulate the antifreeze solution thru the system WITHOUT RAISING THE PRESSURE. After having done that THEN using a syringe or other means of injecting some antifreeze solution flush the fresh water side by disconnecting the fresh water (product water) line at the membranes, allowing the membranes to drain, and then injecting some of the propylene glycol solution into the membrane cavity and thru the product water line. I would guess that only about 3 or 4 ounces of the antifreeze injected down the product water lines will be adequate as it is a small bore line and even less will fill the RO membrane center tube (disclaimer I haven't actually winterized my boat but see this: Note insert dots and slashes where indicated. West Marine also has some information on their products for winterizing on their web site. While there is no way to treat the entire fresh water contents of the membrane cavity (this isn't a loop that you can flush), the center product water tube will drain and you can back flush some antifreeze into that tube. There isn't a great deal of fresh water volume in there anyway. So let the fresh water side drain from the membranes, then fill as best you can with concentrated antifreeze then re-connect the already flushed product water tubing to membranes fresh water line. The bulk of the volume of the cavity is filled with the membranes and the sea water volume. If what little fresh water there is in the cavity freezes it won't burst or damage the membranes as there is room for expansion provided by the sea-water side which won't freeze. That is my theory at least, as there is no way to circulate propylene glycol thru the fresh water side of the membranes. Hope this helps. Sincerely, Gary S. Silver s/v Liahona Amel SM 2000 Hull # 335 Currently in Puerto Rico at Puerto Del Rey Marina |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Fresh Water Pump & Circuit - appropriate operating pressure?
David Vogel <dbv_au@...>
Great. Thanks to you all. On to it (and 1,001 other miscellaneous To Do's) PS - we did leave the boat jobs for a day on Tuesday and actually got out sailing . Oh, what a feeling . . . |
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Re: Pickling watermaker
Thomas Peacock
Hi Pat,
My (imperfect) understanding is that the propylene glycol would be too large to fit through the membranes. I would just flush with no pressure. The desaleteur manual says no pressure, but that's for the metabisulfite solution. |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Pickling watermaker
Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
Is that good for you membrans?
/Annsofie S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998
Skickades från E-post för Windows 10
Från: sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
I need to pickle my watermaker , I will be using potable antifreeze with glycol. When I start the watermaker ,it will start pumping in the antifreeze . My question is should I turn up the pressure regulator and pump it through with pressure on the unit or pump it through with no pressure. Thanks, Pat SM#123 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 55' Amel
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
John, I have only owned a Super Maramu...a 2003 model. I am a huge fan of Amel. I will attempt to tell you my limited understanding of the comparison...hopefully I will not ramble too much, but appologies if I do: As an Amel SM 53 owner, my first reaction to the 55 was, "...what are they crazy, what the heck are they thinking?" It was such a departure from what I thought of Amel that it did not immediately compute to me. Most of the reason for my impression was the fault of Amel management...they overlooked using the power of Amel owners to introduce a new product. In this day and time, that was a big mistake, one that could be corrected, but is still overlooked. The 55 is more of a different boat than the previous Amel models and the 55 has not been accepted by previous owners as much as the previous models were. Of course, this stands to reason because with each model progression prior to the 55, the new models carried over 'tried and true' Henri Amel designs mostly with a blind eye to change. I could argue that this was very good, but if you asked me to argue the other side, I could argue that it was bad. This is something that regrettably Amel did a poor job of. In their defense, they had never made a design change as radical as the 55 and maybe they simply did not realize how to "launch a really new product." The 55 has a completely different keel than the 53 or 54 which allows it to point better and sail faster. This means the freshwater is relocated and the water gauge is missing. The 55 has batteries stored in the cabin sole in a watertight compartment rather than above the waterline in a water tight compartment as in the 53 and 54...there are advantages to either design...we were accustomed to the latter. The rigging is inside the life line to make it point better and sail faster. The rudder is further back making it turn faster and it allows the rudder gear and autopilots to be in a compartment inside the rear lazarette. If you like galleys and galley conveniences, you will love the 55. The freeboard is higher giving the 55 more interior room and volume. The cockpit is deeper for greater protection, but it is more difficult to get in and out of as compared to the 53 & 54. The table in the cockpit is great, but it requires extra steps to get in the engine room. I think the 55 is a yacht that is something like a sailing yacht that Oyster would make if they wanted to knock-off Amel. I also think that Amel management did a terrible job of utilizing the power of probably at least 1,000 Amel owners to promote the 55. Amel could have pitched the 55 and all of its changes, features and benefits to Amel Owners around the world, and some of us could have helped the launch of the 55. But they ignore us...or at the very least, they ignore me. Maybe you should email Dimitris Krasopoulos <dkrasopoulos@...>. He has owned several Amels including 53 and 54. He has been looking closely at the 55. He may have what you are looking for. I think that you will see more negative remarks from 53 and 54 owners than you will from new Amel 55 owners, but hopefully my explanation above will explain that and you can take that into consideration. I hope this helps you. Bill BeBe 387 On Thu, Oct 20, 2016 at 6:32 AM, John Folino jfolino901@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Pickling watermaker
Patrick McAneny
I need to pickle my watermaker , I will be using potable antifreeze with glycol. When I start the watermaker ,it will start pumping in the antifreeze . My question is should I turn up the pressure regulator and pump it through with pressure on the unit or pump it through with no pressure. Thanks, Pat SM#123 |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
Mike Johnson
Hi Donato, Further to my previous message. The information you require for transportation is in the following link: Very best wishes Mike & Peta Solitude SM 2K 461 _____________________________ From: BT mike.k.johnson@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 1:26 pm Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT To: <amelyachtowners@...>
Hi Donato, Copper Coat will be able to give you the exact details of any issues with low temperature. However, the temperature experienced in the holds of passenger aeroplanes are normally around 15C and rarely below 10C unless there has been a technical problem in which case they can reach lower temperatures depending on the flight time. It would be sensible to also consult Copper Coat in respect of the Dangerous Goods Category of the materials you are transporting. Without this you might find the airline refusing to carry the materials or even worse off-loading your luggage when it goes through security checks. Also tell the airline what is in your baggage. Very best wishes Mike & Peta Solitude SM 2K 461 _____________________________ From: Donato Valente ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 11:34 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT To: <amelyachtowners@...> Hi, We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated. Does someone can confirm ? Thank you Donato Amel sm2000 #468 ocean bird Panama |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
Mike Johnson
Hi Donato, Copper Coat will be able to give you the exact details of any issues with low temperature. However, the temperature experienced in the holds of passenger aeroplanes are normally around 15C and rarely below 10C unless there has been a technical problem in which case they can reach lower temperatures depending on the flight time. It would be sensible to also consult Copper Coat in respect of the Dangerous Goods Category of the materials you are transporting. Without this you might find the airline refusing to carry the materials or even worse off-loading your luggage when it goes through security checks. Also tell the airline what is in your baggage. Very best wishes Mike & Peta Solitude SM 2K 461 _____________________________ From: Donato Valente ing.d.valente@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2016 11:34 am Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT To: <amelyachtowners@...> Hi, We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated. Does someone can confirm ? Thank you Donato Amel sm2000 #468 ocean bird Panama |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
Stephen Davis
Our boat came with an 8kw Fischer Panda installed by her previous owner in 2005. This would not of been my choice, but with that said, it has been a reliable generator. We had 1100 hours on the clock in 2014 when we purchased Aloha, and @ 1350 now. Other than routine maintenance, I've had a hose develop a pin hole leak, and broke the alternator/water pump belt due to old age. My 8kw Fischer Panda has a very reliable 2 cylinder Kubota engine, but the Achilles heel of these generators are the overly complicated electronics...German Engineering? I have 6 large capacitors in a control box, and I do carry a full set of spares. So far, no issues with any of the electronics. From the best I can tell, the 4kw FP with a Fairyman diesel seems to have most of the issues, but my 8kw, not so much. If space is a big issue, your options are more limited, and the FP is one of several small options. Rumor has it, that FP has cleaned up their act, and improved the reliability in recent years. If space is no issue, I'd probably pick a Northern Lights generator. Of several generator techs I've spoken to in recent years, the Northern Lights seems to be their favorite for simple reliability. If I should ever have to replace my FP, I would pick the Northern Lights. Steve Davis Aloha SM72 Carriacou On Oct 20, 2016, at 06:22, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
Hello Donato,
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
Ask Ewan at coppercoat; he will give you the correct info. ewan at coppercoat dot com GL Jean-Pierre Germain SY Eleuthera, SM 007
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55' Amel
John Folino <jfolino901@...>
I am interested in hearing reports from owners of the Amel 55' versus the SM 53' which I have previously owned from 2001 to 2014 SM #347 Sulajon, I am interested in any quirks that seem to be common amongst the 55'? John Folino |
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Air transportation of COPPERCOAT
Donato Valente
Hi, We need to bring some Coppercoat kits in our forthcoming flight from Italy to Central America. I've been told that the material, of course as hold luggage, may suffer for a long trip at low temperatures and get deteriorated. Does someone can confirm ? Thank you Donato Amel sm2000 #468 ocean bird Panama |
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instal AC / Genset on Santorin
Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
According to a German marine friend of mine, a Panda is like buying headaches.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
No one needs them. Jean-Pierre Germain SY Eleuthera, SM 007.
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