On Sep 4, 2016, at 13:05, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Richard, Do you know the width/thickness  of the strap ? That's not a bad idea to tap it a bit larger or at the least run a tap through it to clean the threads up.

Thanks,Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard03801 richard03801@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 11:58 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 

Hi Pat you can also tap the bolt threads one size larger to increase the surface area and provide a fresh surface. And yes as a result you'll have drill the hole in the zinc larger. 

Fair Winds Smooth Sailing 

Capt Richard Piller

Newport RI 

Cell 603 767 5330

On Sep 4, 2016, at 09:37, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the i nside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .

I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123

-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 

I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not. 

I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the 

zincs.

I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?

I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.

Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675 

mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?

Fair winds,

Eric

SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.

Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:13, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Bill and Alexandre,

   I thought that I would mention that the Kennedy Space Center uses (don’t laugh) Phllips unflavoured Milk of Magnesia on the threads of fasteners that will be exposed to high temperatures to allow for easy removal.  I have used this solution on exhaust systems of cars and boats for a long time and it really does work.  I am sure that there are other products and you may have as good of a solution but thought I would toss this in as an option.  Some of the anti seize compounds contain metals that are quite high on the galvanic scale which concerns me some...

Best,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

 

Eric, One of my zincs also dissolves faster than the other . My electrician found that I only had 560 at the strap. He is trying to determine if I have a leak , but we also surmised that I may have degraded continuity . I assume that there is two stainless straps welded to the rudder post that are tapped for the bolts that hold the zincs. I wonder what the thickness of the plates are , as the only contact is , the threaded area. If mud or debris found its way between the threads I assume that could lower continuity. If we cannot find any leak or other cause for the low number my electrician suggested that we add a larger zinc with two bronze studs ( better conductor than stainless) through the hull and connect to the strap or quadrant. I cannot see how you could do any harm by putting a rod up through the hole, its just an empty void , but I don't think its going to help much to clean out the inside . I also cannot see any harm in enlarging the hole . Rinsing the inside with a hose probably would help to get some old muck out .

I would be interested to know if you get the number up.

Pat SM123

-----Original Message-----
From: kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Sun, Sep 4, 2016 5:41 am
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rudder , zincs, bonding, and cleaning inside

 

I have recently noticed that one zinc on the rudder is active and the other is not.

I believe there are S/S fingers inside the rudder which are attached to the rudder post. which in turn is attached to the bonding. Anyone have an idea as to why I might be having dissimilar erosion of the

zincs.

I also have put a piece of threaded rod into the hole in the bottom of the rudder and a lot of black silt and parts of shells come out of the rudder. Does anyone think I am doing harm to the rudder with this 2 foot long piece of rod?

I was thinking of making the hole in the rudder slightly larger. I would then insert a piece of soft copper tubing and attach it to a garden hose and basically power wash the inside, . Any comments?There would be enough space between the tubing and the tubing to allow outflow of silt and shell pieces.

Today I finished cleaning the wet bilge to inspect the bonding strap, everything was good. However when I measured the voltage at the strap with the silver chloride electrode in the water I only got -675

mv I dropped my zinc guppy in the water and it wend down to -725.I also checked it at the engine bonding and it was the same. I forgot to check it at the rudder.I will do that today. I assume it is caused by the inactive zinc. Again, any ideas?

Fair winds,

Eric

SM 376 Kimberlite in Lon Island, NY.

Any ideas why? I assume it is the inactive zinc on the rudder

On Sep 4, 2016, at 11:22 AM, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Alexandre,

I would change the Lanocote.  At best, it will melt and run out of the joint leaving it unprotected.  At worst it would decompose in place and potentially glue the fasteners in place.  Lanocote is made from the grease from sheep's wool and will not survive in the 600 C temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.

Bill

On Sep 4, 2016, at 07:32, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Mark & Bill, 

Thank you so much for your input.  
I just added your note on the illustration.  

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?  

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine. 
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.  

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.  
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.  



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator. 



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.  

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…  



Here is the link:  

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures).  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

 

Good morning Mark & Bill,

Thank you so much for your input.
I just added your note on the illustration.

Bill, do you think Lanocote will made more bad than good (and should change it now)?

Compare to some story I remember reading with similar hours, I thought the carbon built up was pretty reasonable on mine.
Now that I have the Blue Sea AC Multimeter, I will be able to run appropriately the genset and minimize carbon build up.

Thanks to both of you, hope more people comment.
Have a great weekend!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 9/3/16, Bill greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Illustration of the Onan Exhaust Elbow Replacement
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, September 3, 2016, 6:53 PM


 










Alexandre,
Great job, and helpful
pictures.
I only have
two comments.
 It is
not a good idea to reuse lock washers, especially in a high
temperature application like this.  They anneal and lose
their "spring" and do not do a good job the second
time around. 
You are
also right to use an anti seize on the bolts, unfortunately
Lanocote is not right for this application.  It will not
stand up to the temperatures of a diesel exhaust manifold.
 For engine work I use a product called
"Never-Seez" that is rated for higher
temperatures.  There are lots of others that work, most of
them are a suspension of powdered copper.
With a new gasket, and clean mating
surfaces I wouldn't use RTV on this unless I had
previous problems with leaks.  
Bill KinneyHarmonie,
SM160Narragansett Bay, RI, USA
On Sep 3,
2016, at 17:07, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
















 










Reading about Gary Silver SM#335 Liahona, Mike Gough SM 378,
Mike Ondra SM#240 Aletes about their Exhaust Mixing Elbow
(and Exhaust manifold) being blocked with carbon build up, I
decided to purchase a spare Exhaust Mixing Elbow, several
Exhaust gaskets, and change mine as preventive maintenance,
having 2014 hours on the Onan generator.



For the new owners like myself who are intimidated by new
maintenance they have not performed yet, I illustrated the
“Exhaust Elbow Replacement” on the Onan generator.



Please do not hesitate to comment, especially if I made
error, as this can only be beneficial for our group.

I can already say that re-reading Gary’s email on Feb 12,
2016, I forgot to add a thin coat of Permatex High
Temperature RTV…



Here is the link: 

http://nikimat.com/onan_exhaust_elbow_replacement.html



For low bandwidth user, the document is split in 6 sections.




If bandwidth is not an issue, there is also the full version
(37 pictures). 



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

On Sep 4, 2016, at 7:05 AM, peterblokpoel@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

I did a full inspection of the box, including the load transferring part in engine room. After cutting away the isolation and cleaning the open space of the ceiling I cannot detect any cracks or faults in the construction. The darker spots are leftovers from the glue wich is impossible for me to remove at the moment. 

There is a sort of doubling plate on top of the compressionposts and this is not in a perfect  straight line but this is the case with all of the ceiling. I imagine the constructors did not care much for esthetics for this part of construction.

However I took a ruler and held it against the bottom side of the doubling plate and this got me worried a bit. I added the photos to the same album and do hope they are clear enough.

The two verticals of the box are basicly the only parts that (as far as I can see now) transfer the compression loads to the posts and are not perfectl y centered over the posts below. I measure 3 cm difference on both sides. That means the glassfibre vertical parts of the box are 3 cm to the outside compared to the centreline of the posts. It is difficult to be more precise.

Maybe it is too much to ask but it would be a great help if you could check the situation and state of the doubling plate on your boat. Maybe take a picture so we can compare?

The box and seats are one part I am sure and only bolted to the bulkhead and cockpit floor.. As you can see on the photos there is a flanged metal strip on both sides of the top inside of the box. This is where the cracks are visible on the outside of the box. At the bottom of the box (inside the  2 open storage compartments on both sides of the box) there is a single bolt wich attaches the box to the floor. There is no permanent connection anywhere else, let alone a solid glassfibre connection between bulkhead and box. The n uts of the latter are laminated in in the ceiling of the engine room.

The rigging on my boat was renewed in dec. 2012 and this was done by a specialist sailmaker/rigger in Heyeres. A company well known by Amel in the same place on the med. coast in south of France.

I tightened the rigging only slightly after sailing back to Holland ( 1,5 turns on each turnbuckle.)

I do not know the exact tension/load in numbers. I loosened all the mizzen mast turnbuckles 2 turns now and will see what happens in the next few days. I did the same with the main backstay.

Let me know your thoughts and findings

Best regards, Peter