Date   

Electrolysis caused by a non-isolated alternator

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Kent,

I know you have checked this out, but your large alternator should also be isolated. If the new engine mechanic used the same alternator that Amel installed, you are probably OK, but I remember you saying Balmar. Although I think Amel uses Balmar now, BeBe, 387, was fitted with a Leece-Neville 175 amp 24V alternator.

If you recall, when all of this started, I suggested that you should check your alternators to ensure that they were isolated. I suggested this because I had a friend who owns a Bavaria and who lost his sail drive because he added a high output Balmar Alternator...and failed to order one with and isolated ground.

I am happy that you are making great progress. I also appreciate all of the information shared by you and all the others...I think that I am better informed.

Best,

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Feb 4, 2015 2:08 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Olivier,
I guess the original owner had double pole breakers installed.  I should be able to isolate the engine from the batteries when not running it.
There is nothing on the battery side of the switch except the battery cables.
Thanks again.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 4, 2015, at 2:55 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

with the batteries breakers you have now, you can't turn the engine OFF only while running (or being in the harbor or at Anchor). One of these breakers cuts both 12 and 24 positives, the other one cuts both negs.
You'll have to install a new double circuit breaker, cutting +12 and -12V.

I'm glad you finally seem to find the cause of the corrosion.

Have a good day.

Olivier


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 4:52 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Olivier,
I've got a plan now.

The voltage thru the bonding system is battery voltage (25-27VDC), but it won't light a 5watt bulb.  Mike (electrical engineer) doesn't think it's what caused the electrolysis of the prop shaft.
I found several other issues created by the guy who put the new Yanmar in (it's a non-isolated engine, and I don't think it was bonded to the rudder zincs).  The guy who put the new chargers in connected them to the bonding system that was attached to the Yanmar, and one of them failed.  That combination of errors is what we think caused the damage.

I'm waiting to hear back from Yanmar to see if there's anything I can do to isolate it from the 12V system. If not I'll have to be very particular about leaving the battery switch off when not running, and will definitely change the alternator to an isolated one.

I sure have learned a lot about electricity and about Amel's systems.  Thanks again to everyone for your guidance and continued help as I've muddled along.

I'll let you know what I find when I'm finished searching for the bonding voltage.
Steady as she goes.
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Dear Kent,

you don't need to pull the neg wires out of their ducts, but only disconnect the neg wire where it is attached to the item (motor, relay, pump, nav light, fridge, etc...). One week should be enough....

Olivier


On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:45 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Eric.  That makes sense. So everything on the winches breaker on the 24V panel goes to the control panel at the helm and the breakers throughout the boat go to the motors and pumps directly. So I need to go to each winch and pump separately, disconnect the neg wire and see if the voltage between the pos battery pole and the bonding disappears.  I think.  I'm still wondering if the bond/neg connection is somewhere between a motor and the battery, how am I going to find it?  I guess that means tracing every neg wire back to the battery.  Ugh, most of them are in chases where they aren't visible. That'd mean pulling them out, checking them, and running them back through the chase.  That might take me a month or two.😩
Kent



On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:19 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
The breaker on te 24 volt panel does not control the winches and a number of other things. That breaker only controls the control relays. The actual hi load breakers are as note in my previous note,
eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, February 2, 2015 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> Aha! Thanks Bill. What does that "Permanent" stepdown 
> transformer feed?
>
> The + wire to the permanent stepdown transformer is the only one
> I see that is attached to the main service battery switch on the
> positive battery side of the switch. I was surprised that the
> bilge pump wasn't connected there too. I'd never checked
> before, but the bilge pump doesn't work when the battery switch
> is off. So I guess the permanent transformer is the only thing
> that is powered when the battery switch is off?
>
> Is there a place that tells what these other equipments are that
> don't go through the 24v panel? I know where most of the
> breakers are that go to the winches, heads, anchor wash,
> windlass, thruster, furlers, etc. They are all dependent on a
> breaker on the 24V panel. I don't know where the breaker is for
> the aft lazarette receptacle for the dinghy inflator???
>
> I've found 24 V between the bonding system and the Positive
> battery pole. I think that means there is a connection
> somewhere between a negative wire and the bonding system. It
> carries 0.8amps with all 24v panel breakers off. My next
> project is to disconnect all the negative wires at their
> equipment. If the connection between the battery negative and
> bonding is not at the pump or motor, but somewhere between
> battery and the equipment, I don't think I'll find it by
> disconnecting neg from equipment. Then what???
>
> Thanks to all!
> Kent
> SM243
> Kristy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:45 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse'
> yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
> wrote:
>
> Kent,
>
> There are many loads that do not go through the 24 volt breaker
> panel and the "Permanent" 24 to 12 volt step-down transformers
> are one example. The breaker for these is inside the wet
> locker...additionally, and I am fairly sure, that this breaker
> remains HOT with the battery switches turned OFF.
>
> Bill
> BeBe 387
>
> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:30 PM, karkauai@...
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> >
> > Hi again, all,
> > another question:
> > Are there any permanent loads on the 24V system that don't go
> through the 24V panel.
> >
> > On some schematics I found something called "permanent" on the
> 24V system that doesn't appear to be on the 24V panel and
> doesn't have a breaker on it in the schematic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> > SM243
> > Kristy
> >
>
>





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Circuit Breakers

karkauai
 

Thanks Olivier,
I guess the original owner had double pole breakers installed.  I should be able to isolate the engine from the batteries when not running it.
There is nothing on the battery side of the switch except the battery cables.
Thanks again.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 4, 2015, at 2:55 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

with the batteries breakers you have now, you can't turn the engine OFF only while running (or being in the harbor or at Anchor). One of these breakers cuts both 12 and 24 positives, the other one cuts both negs.
You'll have to install a new double circuit breaker, cutting +12 and -12V.

I'm glad you finally seem to find the cause of the corrosion.

Have a good day.

Olivier


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 4:52 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Olivier,
I've got a plan now.

The voltage thru the bonding system is battery voltage (25-27VDC), but it won't light a 5watt bulb.  Mike (electrical engineer) doesn't think it's what caused the electrolysis of the prop shaft.
I found several other issues created by the guy who put the new Yanmar in (it's a non-isolated engine, and I don't think it was bonded to the rudder zincs).  The guy who put the new chargers in connected them to the bonding system that was attached to the Yanmar, and one of them failed.  That combination of errors is what we think caused the damage.

I'm waiting to hear back from Yanmar to see if there's anything I can do to isolate it from the 12V system. If not I'll have to be very particular about leaving the battery switch off when not running, and will definitely change the alternator to an isolated one.

I sure have learned a lot about electricity and about Amel's systems.  Thanks again to everyone for your guidance and continued help as I've muddled along.

I'll let you know what I find when I'm finished searching for the bonding voltage.
Steady as she goes.
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Dear Kent,

you don't need to pull the neg wires out of their ducts, but only disconnect the neg wire where it is attached to the item (motor, relay, pump, nav light, fridge, etc...). One week should be enough....

Olivier


On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:45 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Eric.  That makes sense. So everything on the winches breaker on the 24V panel goes to the control panel at the helm and the breakers throughout the boat go to the motors and pumps directly. So I need to go to each winch and pump separately, disconnect the neg wire and see if the voltage between the pos battery pole and the bonding disappears.  I think.  I'm still wondering if the bond/neg connection is somewhere between a motor and the battery, how am I going to find it?  I guess that means tracing every neg wire back to the battery.  Ugh, most of them are in chases where they aren't visible. That'd mean pulling them out, checking them, and running them back through the chase.  That might take me a month or two.😩
Kent



On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:19 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
The breaker on te 24 volt panel does not control the winches and a number of other things. That breaker only controls the control relays. The actual hi load breakers are as note in my previous note,
eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, February 2, 2015 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> Aha! Thanks Bill. What does that "Permanent" stepdown 
> transformer feed?
>
> The + wire to the permanent stepdown transformer is the only one
> I see that is attached to the main service battery switch on the
> positive battery side of the switch. I was surprised that the
> bilge pump wasn't connected there too. I'd never checked
> before, but the bilge pump doesn't work when the battery switch
> is off. So I guess the permanent transformer is the only thing
> that is powered when the battery switch is off?
>
> Is there a place that tells what these other equipments are that
> don't go through the 24v panel? I know where most of the
> breakers are that go to the winches, heads, anchor wash,
> windlass, thruster, furlers, etc. They are all dependent on a
> breaker on the 24V panel. I don't know where the breaker is for
> the aft lazarette receptacle for the dinghy inflator???
>
> I've found 24 V between the bonding system and the Positive
> battery pole. I think that means there is a connection
> somewhere between a negative wire and the bonding system. It
> carries 0.8amps with all 24v panel breakers off. My next
> project is to disconnect all the negative wires at their
> equipment. If the connection between the battery negative and
> bonding is not at the pump or motor, but somewhere between
> battery and the equipment, I don't think I'll find it by
> disconnecting neg from equipment. Then what???
>
> Thanks to all!
> Kent
> SM243
> Kristy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:45 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse'
> yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
> wrote:
>
> Kent,
>
> There are many loads that do not go through the 24 volt breaker
> panel and the "Permanent" 24 to 12 volt step-down transformers
> are one example. The breaker for these is inside the wet
> locker...additionally, and I am fairly sure, that this breaker
> remains HOT with the battery switches turned OFF.
>
> Bill
> BeBe 387
>
> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:30 PM, karkauai@...
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> >
> > Hi again, all,
> > another question:
> > Are there any permanent loads on the 24V system that don't go
> through the 24V panel.
> >
> > On some schematics I found something called "permanent" on the
> 24V system that doesn't appear to be on the 24V panel and
> doesn't have a breaker on it in the schematic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> > SM243
> > Kristy
> >
>
>





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Froli Sleep System

karkauai
 

Hi Chris,
It's about 2 inches thick and yes I cut it to fit.  No worries about condensation. I do have a fairly thick mattress pad over it.
I don't remember exactly what it cost, but it was fairly expensive for a piece of foam. It has been well worth whatever the cost.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 1, 2015, at 11:55 PM, Chris Flack chris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Kent,

How thick is the memory foam you got? Did you just cut it to size? No worries about condensation underneath?

 

Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 

 

On 02-02-2015 15:32, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

 

We have a "memory foam" mattress on top of the one from Amel, then a mattress pad and sheet.  I sleep better on the boat than at home.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Feb 1, 2015, at 5:30 PM, chris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Good Morning,

 

When we purchased Hemera (SM031) the mattress on-board was a 4" piece of cut foam in a cover. We may be getting soft in our mature age but found it pretty uncomfortable and are looking at 'something' more comfortable.

 

I have read a bit about the Froli sleep system  and was wondering if any one has purchased the components and what size did you actually order as we are currently in Australia and Hemera is in Turkey and so I cannot measure it myself at the moment.

 

Other than the Froli - what have you used for a comfortable night's sleep. What mattress do you have?

 

Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Peter,

AMEL CARAIBES
Port de plaisance du Marin
Bassin Tortue, Local B5
97290 Le Marin
Martinique
Tél : +596 (0) 596 58 50 37
Fax : +596 (0) 596 63 45 30
E-mail : amel.caraibes@...

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Feb 4, 2015 5:11 AM, "Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Can anyone give me a name + telephone contact details for Amel Support Caribbean - is it in Martinique?


Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
Gouvia Marina - CORFU, Greece

On 29 Jan 2015, at 14:32, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Gosh, thank you so much, Olivier. That information is quite helpful. 

Sadly, we had already done the installation in the water by the time our internet connection returned and we were able to read this. And, you're exactly co rrect: it's very difficult to clean the fiberglass tube of the old silicone caulk sufficiently before inserting the new hose and new goo. 

Now we're pondering whether or not the job has been done sufficiently. Thinking about whether maybe we should re-do it ourselves now after plugging the hole somehow from the outside and heeling the boat over a little onto it's starboard side, or perhaps leave it as-is now, but put it on the schedule for re-do with next haul out. We're waiting for sealant to fully set before we decide.

On another, more pleasant note...the exhaust hose Amel used must have been some pretty fantastic hose. After 23 years, it was still intact and functional. Although it was definitely showing its age and needing to be changed, 23 years is pretty impressive service for a flexible object exposed to a hard life.

Thanks again, to all.

Liz
S/ V Aloha, SM72



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

Peter Forbes
 

Thank you - all for that.

Peter
Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
Gouvia Marina - CORFU, Greece

On 4 Feb 2015, at 16:51, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


amel dot caraibes at amel dot fr



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

Olivier Beaute
 

amel dot caraibes at amel dot fr


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Butane to Propane Conversion

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Will,

I posted some pictures on:
http://nikimat.com/propane_tank_storage.html

Since Bill said he could only store one large tank, may be my storage tank is larger…
I spent a lots of time to find the right tanks, found them at West Marine.
I used to have aluminum and fiberglass, but there was a recall for the fiberglass.

I use foam to avoid they hit each other, but I don't think this is the best solution.

In the green bags, I have small 1 lb propane and butane tanks for portable burner and Catalina grill (when this one run out of its 10 lbs tank)

I am not aware of an O (open) or F (ferme) switch in the galley… Did I miss it?
I use the Diruptor on the 24 Volt panel:
http://nikimat.com/diruptor_24_volt_panel.html

Hope that helps…

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 2/3/15, tango708@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Butane to Propane Conversion
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 3, 2015, 4:31 PM


 









Hi Alexandre,
That sounds sounds
interesting.  I have such limited space.  I wonder if your
hull shipped with a larger gaz locker.  Would you be able
to snap a couple photo's for me?  wtstout at mac dot
com.

Also, the switch in
the galley labeled GAZ with a "0" position and a
"F" position is that an electric switch somewhere
in line between the locker and the stove?

Regards,
Will
Anni Bea True
SM180









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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Peter,
         amel dot carribes at wanadoo dot fr

T.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Peter,
         The contact details as of 2011 were,
amel.caribes@...
+596 590 908 53
Regards,
Trevor Lusty
Seafever of Cuan - For Sale
SM 425
Mexico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Peter,

The below should work for you.



Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 4 Feb 2015, at 12:04, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Can anyone give me a name + telephone contact details for Amel Support Caribbean - is it in Martinique?


Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
Gouvia Marina - CORFU, Greece

On 29 Jan 2015, at 14:32, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Gosh, thank you so much, Olivier. That information is quite helpful. 

Sadly, we had already done the installation in the water by the time our internet connection returned and we were able to read this. And, you're exactly correct: it's very difficult to clean the fiberglass tube of the old silicone caulk sufficiently before inserting the new hose and new goo. 

Now we're pondering whether or not the job has been done sufficiently. Thinking about whether maybe we should re-do it ourselves now after plugging the hole somehow from the outside and heeling the boat over a little onto it's starboard side, or perhaps leave it as-is now, but put it on the schedule for re-do with next haul out. We're waiting for sealant to fully set before we decide.

On another, more pleasant note...the exhaust hose Amel used must have been some pretty fantastic hose. After 23 years, it was still intact and functional. Although it was definitely showing its age and needing to be changed, 23 years is pretty impressive service for a flexible object exposed to a hard life.

Thanks again, to all.

Liz
S/V Aloha, SM72




Posted by: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (37)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine exhaust held on with just silicone?

Peter Forbes
 

Can anyone give me a name + telephone contact details for Amel Support Caribbean - is it in Martinique?

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
Gouvia Marina - CORFU, Greece

On 29 Jan 2015, at 14:32, flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Gosh, thank you so much, Olivier. That information is quite helpful. 

Sadly, we had already done the installation in the water by the time our internet connection returned and we were able to read this. And, you're exactly correct: it's very difficult to clean the fiberglass tube of the old silicone caulk sufficiently before inserting the new hose and new goo. 

Now we're pondering whether or not the job has been done sufficiently. Thinking about whether maybe we should re-do it ourselves now after plugging the hole somehow from the outside and heeling the boat over a little onto it's starboard side, or perhaps leave it as-is now, but put it on the schedule for re-do with next haul out. We're waiting for sealant to fully set before we decide.

On another, more pleasant note...the exhaust hose Amel used must have been some pretty fantastic hose. After 23 years, it was still intact and functional. Although it was definitely showing its age and needing to be changed, 23 years is pretty impressive service for a flexible object exposed to a hard life.

Thanks again, to all.

Liz
S/V Aloha, SM72



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Circuit Breakers

Olivier Beaute
 

Hi Kent,

with the batteries breakers you have now, you can't turn the engine OFF only while running (or being in the harbor or at Anchor). One of these breakers cuts both 12 and 24 positives, the other one cuts both negs.
You'll have to install a new double circuit breaker, cutting +12 and -12V.

I'm glad you finally seem to find the cause of the corrosion.

Have a good day.

Olivier


On Wednesday, February 4, 2015 4:52 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Thanks Olivier,
I've got a plan now.

The voltage thru the bonding system is battery voltage (25-27VDC), but it won't light a 5watt bulb.  Mike (electrical engineer) doesn't think it's what caused the electrolysis of the prop shaft.
I found several other issues created by the guy who put the new Yanmar in (it's a non-isolated engine, and I don't think it was bonded to the rudder zincs).  The guy who put the new chargers in connected them to the bonding system that was attached to the Yanmar, and one of them failed.  That combination of errors is what we think caused the damage.

I'm waiting to hear back from Yanmar to see if there's anything I can do to isolate it from the 12V system. If not I'll have to be very particular about leaving the battery switch off when not running, and will definitely change the alternator to an isolated one.

I sure have learned a lot about electricity and about Amel's systems.  Thanks again to everyone for your guidance and continued help as I've muddled along.

I'll let you know what I find when I'm finished searching for the bonding voltage.
Steady as she goes.
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Dear Kent,

you don't need to pull the neg wires out of their ducts, but only disconnect the neg wire where it is attached to the item (motor, relay, pump, nav light, fridge, etc...). One week should be enough....

Olivier


On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:45 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Eric.  That makes sense. So everything on the winches breaker on the 24V panel goes to the control panel at the helm and the breakers throughout the boat go to the motors and pumps directly. So I need to go to each winch and pump separately, disconnect the neg wire and see if the voltage between the pos battery pole and the bonding disappears.  I think.  I'm still wondering if the bond/neg connection is somewhere between a motor and the battery, how am I going to find it?  I guess that means tracing every neg wire back to the battery.  Ugh, most of them are in chases where they aren't visible. That'd mean pulling them out, checking them, and running them back through the chase.  That might take me a month or two.😩
Kent



On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:19 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
The breaker on te 24 volt panel does not control the winches and a number of other things. That breaker only controls the control relays. The actual hi load breakers are as note in my previous note,
eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, February 2, 2015 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> Aha! Thanks Bill. What does that "Permanent" stepdown 
> transformer feed?
>
> The + wire to the permanent stepdown transformer is the only one
> I see that is attached to the main service battery switch on the
> positive battery side of the switch. I was surprised that the
> bilge pump wasn't connected there too. I'd never checked
> before, but the bilge pump doesn't work when the battery switch
> is off. So I guess the permanent transformer is the only thing
> that is powered when the battery switch is off?
>
> Is there a place that tells what these other equipments are that
> don't go through the 24v panel? I know where most of the
> breakers are that go to the winches, heads, anchor wash,
> windlass, thruster, furlers, etc. They are all dependent on a
> breaker on the 24V panel. I don't know where the breaker is for
> the aft lazarette receptacle for the dinghy inflator???
>
> I've found 24 V between the bonding system and the Positive
> battery pole. I think that means there is a connection
> somewhere between a negative wire and the bonding system. It
> carries 0.8amps with all 24v panel breakers off. My next
> project is to disconnect all the negative wires at their
> equipment. If the connection between the battery negative and
> bonding is not at the pump or motor, but somewhere between
> battery and the equipment, I don't think I'll find it by
> disconnecting neg from equipment. Then what???
>
> Thanks to all!
> Kent
> SM243
> Kristy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:45 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse'
> yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
> wrote:
>
> Kent,
>
> There are many loads that do not go through the 24 volt breaker
> panel and the "Permanent" 24 to 12 volt step-down transformers
> are one example. The breaker for these is inside the wet
> locker...additionally, and I am fairly sure, that this breaker
> remains HOT with the battery switches turned OFF.
>
> Bill
> BeBe 387
>
> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:30 PM, karkauai@...
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> >
> > Hi again, all,
> > another question:
> > Are there any permanent loads on the 24V system that don't go
> through the 24V panel.
> >
> > On some schematics I found something called "permanent" on the
> 24V system that doesn't appear to be on the 24V panel and
> doesn't have a breaker on it in the schematic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> > SM243
> > Kristy
> >
>
>





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Circuit Breakers

karkauai
 

Thanks Olivier,
I've got a plan now.

The voltage thru the bonding system is battery voltage (25-27VDC), but it won't light a 5watt bulb.  Mike (electrical engineer) doesn't think it's what caused the electrolysis of the prop shaft.
I found several other issues created by the guy who put the new Yanmar in (it's a non-isolated engine, and I don't think it was bonded to the rudder zincs).  The guy who put the new chargers in connected them to the bonding system that was attached to the Yanmar, and one of them failed.  That combination of errors is what we think caused the damage.

I'm waiting to hear back from Yanmar to see if there's anything I can do to isolate it from the 12V system. If not I'll have to be very particular about leaving the battery switch off when not running, and will definitely change the alternator to an isolated one.

I sure have learned a lot about electricity and about Amel's systems.  Thanks again to everyone for your guidance and continued help as I've muddled along.

I'll let you know what I find when I'm finished searching for the bonding voltage.
Steady as she goes.
Kent
SM243
Kristy 


On Feb 3, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Kent,

you don't need to pull the neg wires out of their ducts, but only disconnect the neg wire where it is attached to the item (motor, relay, pump, nav light, fridge, etc...). One week should be enough....

Olivier


On Tuesday, February 3, 2015 3:45 AM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks Eric.  That makes sense. So everything on the winches breaker on the 24V panel goes to the control panel at the helm and the breakers throughout the boat go to the motors and pumps directly. So I need to go to each winch and pump separately, disconnect the neg wire and see if the voltage between the pos battery pole and the bonding disappears.  I think.  I'm still wondering if the bond/neg connection is somewhere between a motor and the battery, how am I going to find it?  I guess that means tracing every neg wire back to the battery.  Ugh, most of them are in chases where they aren't visible. That'd mean pulling them out, checking them, and running them back through the chase.  That might take me a month or two.😩
Kent



On Feb 2, 2015, at 9:19 PM, kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
The breaker on te 24 volt panel does not control the winches and a number of other things. That breaker only controls the control relays. The actual hi load breakers are as note in my previous note,
eric


----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Monday, February 2, 2015 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> Aha! Thanks Bill. What does that "Permanent" stepdown 
> transformer feed?
>
> The + wire to the permanent stepdown transformer is the only one
> I see that is attached to the main service battery switch on the
> positive battery side of the switch. I was surprised that the
> bilge pump wasn't connected there too. I'd never checked
> before, but the bilge pump doesn't work when the battery switch
> is off. So I guess the permanent transformer is the only thing
> that is powered when the battery switch is off?
>
> Is there a place that tells what these other equipments are that
> don't go through the 24v panel? I know where most of the
> breakers are that go to the winches, heads, anchor wash,
> windlass, thruster, furlers, etc. They are all dependent on a
> breaker on the 24V panel. I don't know where the breaker is for
> the aft lazarette receptacle for the dinghy inflator???
>
> I've found 24 V between the bonding system and the Positive
> battery pole. I think that means there is a connection
> somewhere between a negative wire and the bonding system. It
> carries 0.8amps with all 24v panel breakers off. My next
> project is to disconnect all the negative wires at their
> equipment. If the connection between the battery negative and
> bonding is not at the pump or motor, but somewhere between
> battery and the equipment, I don't think I'll find it by
> disconnecting neg from equipment. Then what???
>
> Thanks to all!
> Kent
> SM243
> Kristy
>
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 2, 2015, at 4:45 PM, 'Bill & Judy Rouse'
> yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
> wrote:
>
> Kent,
>
> There are many loads that do not go through the 24 volt breaker
> panel and the "Permanent" 24 to 12 volt step-down transformers
> are one example. The breaker for these is inside the wet
> locker...additionally, and I am fairly sure, that this breaker
> remains HOT with the battery switches turned OFF.
>
> Bill
> BeBe 387
>
> > On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 1:30 PM, karkauai@...
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> >
> > Hi again, all,
> > another question:
> > Are there any permanent loads on the 24V system that don't go
> through the 24V panel.
> >
> > On some schematics I found something called "permanent" on the
> 24V system that doesn't appear to be on the 24V panel and
> doesn't have a breaker on it in the schematic.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Kent
> > SM243
> > Kristy
> >
>
>



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Butane to Propane Conversion

tango708@...
 

Hi Alexandre,
That sounds sounds interesting.  I have such limited space.  I wonder if your hull shipped with a larger gaz locker.  Would you be able to snap a couple photo's for me?  wtstout at mac dot com.

Also, the switch in the galley labeled GAZ with a "0" position and a "F" position is that an electric switch somewhere in line between the locker and the stove?

Regards,
Will
Anni Bea True
SM180


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Butane to Propane Conversion

tango708@...
 

Jean-Pierre,
Thank you... I like that option as my butane locker is quite small.

Regards,
Will


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Froli Sleep System

Chris Flack
 

Hi Jean-Pierre,

I might send Riza a note and ask about it them as Hemera is currently moored at Fethiye. Are you having mattresses made throughout Eleuthera?

Have you had any dealings with the new Operations Manager while Riza is travelling?

 

Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 

 

On 04-02-2015 07:43, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 

Hello Chris,

 
We are having new mattresses made .. through Emek Marine in Goček.  Looks good to us.
 
Cheers,
 
 
Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007
 
 

On 2 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Chris Flack chris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
 

Hi Mark,

That sounds a logical solution which we might go with depending on what we can find in Fethiye. Getting a price for the Froli could be an interesting option also which I might investigate. There used to be a time when I could sleep on the floor or a sailbag with a rug but I've become soft 

 

Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 
 

On 02-02-2015 09:51, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 

Chris,

 

Before you go to great expense and efforts, try putting some memory foam over the bed pillow. We purchased a mattress topper at Wal-Mart. Although it wasn’t very thick, it made the world of difference. We purchased a queen size and cut it to fit.

 

If you opt to go for the  Froli Sleep System, please post your findings.  Would like to hear how it works.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2015 5:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Froli Sleep System

 

 

Good Morning,

 

When we purchased Hemera (SM031) the mattress on-board was a 4" piece of cut foam in a cover. We may be getting soft in our mature age but found it pretty uncomfortable and are looking at 'something' more comfortable.



I have read a bit about the Froli sleep system  and was wondering if any one has purchased the components and what size did you actually order as we are currently in Australia and Hemera is in Turkey and so I cannot measure it myself at the moment.



Other than the Froli - what have you used for a comfortable night's sleep. What mattress do you have?



Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 
 
 
 

Posted by: Chris Flack <chris@...>
 
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Froli Sleep System

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Chris,

We are having new mattresses made .. through Emek Marine in Goček.  Looks good to us.

Cheers,


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 2 Feb 2015, at 00:34, Chris Flack chris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Mark,

That sounds a logical solution which we might go with depending on what we can find in Fethiye. Getting a price for the Froli could be an interesting option also which I might investigate. There used to be a time when I could sleep on the floor or a sailbag with a rug but I've become soft 

 

Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031

 
 

On 02-02-2015 09:51, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

 
 

Chris,

 

Before you go to great expense and efforts, try putting some memory foam over the bed pillow. We purchased a mattress topper at Wal-Mart. Although it wasn’t very thick, it made the world of difference. We purchased a queen size and cut it to fit.

 

If you opt to go for the  Froli Sleep System, please post your findings.  Would like to hear how it works.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2015 5:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Froli Sleep System

 

 

Good Morning,

 

When we purchased Hemera (SM031) the mattress on-board was a 4" piece of cut foam in a cover. We may be getting soft in our mature age but found it pretty uncomfortable and are looking at 'something' more comfortable.



I have read a bit about the Froli sleep system  and was wondering if any one has purchased the components and what size did you actually order as we are currently in Australia and Hemera is in Turkey and so I cannot measure it myself at the moment.



Other than the Froli - what have you used for a comfortable night's sleep. What mattress do you have?



Cheers

Chris

Hemera SM031



Posted by: Chris Flack <chris@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (7)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Leaving to go down island

Paul LaFrance <pflafrance@...>
 

Curt
We have been to St Martin on both sides. We prefer the French side as customs is a lot easier and it is a lot cheaper. When you check in on the Dutch side the fee is $82 (40 the bridge & 42 for the bay for 1 week) plus a $7 exit fee. No services provided. ie mooring ball. If checking into the French side you should go to the Capitanary in the lagoon. The fee is $9 entry and $9 exit. Anchor in Marigot and dinghy in through the channel. The Capitanary is located in Marina Fort Royal. If you check in in Marigot Bay at Fort Louie the charge an additional fee approx. $35 to anchor in the bay. No one pays it when they do come around to check as the Captain is always ashore. No one pays attention to them as it is just another money grab.
We have gone through the lagoon from one side to the other, but not since the hurricane. We have someone in the dingy with a hand held depth-sounder and VHF. The channel is narrow and we go through at high tide which gives us an extra foot max. There is a cruisers network on VHF CH 10 at 7:30 every morning M-S. You could ask for some one to take you into the lagoon. The lagoon is less wavy than outside (Marigot or Simpson Bay).  Most boats come through the Dutch bridge and the causeway to anchor on the French side of the lagoon and that is what we did this time as we were already checked in on the Dutch side having work done in the yard. If you transit directly to the French side there is no Dutch fee as you do not have to check in on the Dutch side
While in the lagoon we do not make water and the bottom can get growth.  Staying 2 weeks should be all right. We do lock the boat up and secure the dinghy by a halyard and lock at night.
Once in the lagoon it is easy to get to either side.
Hope this helps

Paul & Susan LaFrance
SV NOMAD #362
Currently anchored in the French side of the lagoon


To: amelyachtowners@...
From: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 11:58:59 -0800
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Leaving to go down island

 
In late Feb we leave PR for our first extended Caribbean cruise.  After a stop at St. Croix we will cross to St. Martin/Maarten.  I have been reading whatever I can find, but am confused about customs/immigration.  Looks like the Dutch side office at the bridge is easier and more convenient but more expensive.  I read that the French side has "self check in" using computers at various locations but I have found no listing of those locations.  Is there adequate depth to enter the lagoon from Marigot Bay?  One website/guide said "local knowledge" only but the chart shows adequate depth in the channel.

Also, how easy is it to drop off a crew member at the airport in Sint Maaten to fly home?

Does anyone have suggestions and tips?  Any experienced, first hand info would be very useful.  Thanks in advance.

sail2live "at" hotmail "dot" com.

Curt Epperson
S/V Languedoc
1987 Maramu





Re: Leaving to go down island

curtepp
 

Thank you very much Gary.  Good info.  We are hoping to go as far as Grenada, then back to PR before June.  But we have no schedule or even return flight booked and will go at our own pace.  We are very excited to be doing this, especially on our Amel and hope to meet and greet some other Amel owners. 

Curt Epperson
S/V Languedoc


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leaving to go down island

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Gary,

I was going to say about the same thing about St. Martin, but did not do it because the last time we were there was 2006.

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387

On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 1:09 PM, amelliahona <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hi Curt:


Congratulations on your sailing to the Caribbean.  I remember the excitement I felt the first time I traversed the Eastern Caribbean islands.  I sort of have a different take on St Martin than has been posed by others.  

I have anchored in Marigot (French Side) probably 20 times over the last 13 years and have never had any trouble with theft, crime, or felt unsafe.  Perhaps I was naive.  We always lock the boat up tight when we go ashore, wherever we are in the Caribbean and we lock the companionway up at night as we sleep, leaving only hatches open as required.  We lock the dinghy/fuel supply/motor to the boat at night with a lifeline diameter cable (approx 3/8 inch and probably easily cuttable with a bolt cutter).  We don't raise the boat on a halyard as many do.  Marigot anchorage can at times be a bit rolly, but it has never been untenable.  We find the French side to b e charming.

The Marigot customs/immigrations is in an office next to the ferry dock, there is good and secure dinghy dock area 300 feet away, the process is that you fly your Q flag, dinghy ashore, go to the office, knock on the door, enter, sit a French keyboard computer, enter your data, pay a very moderate fee and you are good to go.  It takes about 15 minutes and is a lot cheaper than the Dutch side.  On occasion customs and immigration isn't open and we have stayed 3 days over a weekend, were never able to check in or out, and then sailed on to the next island.  The French are quite laid back about all this paper work stuff (unlike the Dutch) and we have enjoyed Marigot a lot.  If you are going to be there for awhile, take the opportunity to rent a car and tour the island by land.   

The anchorage on the Dutch side outside the lagoon isn't any picknick.  It can be rough at times and the re always seems to be boats zooming about in either side's anchorage that create wakes.  I stayed at one of the marina's on the south end of the lagoon once, it was expensive, you had to med-moore with your anchor out, it took me two days to clean the slime and ooze off my anchor chain and boat after that experience.  I wouldn't do that again unless the marina had a method that didn't require me to put my anchor out to stand off the dock.  

I haven't taken the SM into the lagoon except by the Dutch side bridge but get some local knowledge and it might be possible to come in from the French side.  I see little advantage to doing that.  Both Island Water World and Budget Marine have chandleries on the south end of the lagoon (each has it's own pros & cons, you'll see).

An absolute must do is to anchor off Ile Tintemerre (northeast), spectacular beach and scenery, clear waters wit h turtles etc.  Can get busy on weekends as it is a favorite with the locals, but I have been there there or four times when we were the only boat. 

All the best, enjoy this exploration, there is nothing like arriving in a new island for the first time. 

Sincerely, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM #335