Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Kent,

“Masse” indeed means negative pole.  “Cosses” means the posts as in “les cosses de batterie” means the battery posts.

Hope this helps.. I’ve followed your tale of frustration with interest and sympathy…

GL


Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007.



On 1 Apr 2015, at 14:29, karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I have posted a schematic and pics from Amel about installing the isolation kit they are sending me.  It is in French and an online translator wasn't much help in the things that weren't obvious.
Does "masse" mean the negative pole?  It comes up "mass" or "log" on the online translator.
Is the "Support relais de commande" the engine panel?
What does "cosses" mean?  It comes up "pods" in the online translator.
Where would the "relais de puissance" be?  It comes up "output relay" on the online translator.
Merci beaucoup,
Kent
SM 243
Kristy



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

karkauai
 

I have posted a schematic and pics from Amel about installing the isolation kit they are sending me.  It is in French and an online translator wasn't much help in the things that weren't obvious.
Does "masse" mean the negative pole?  It comes up "mass" or "log" on the online translator.
Is the "Support relais de commande" the engine panel?
What does "cosses" mean?  It comes up "pods" in the online translator.
Where would the "relais de puissance" be?  It comes up "output relay" on the online translator.
Merci beaucoup,
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


New file uploaded to amelyachtowners

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Regards,


karkauai <karkauai@...>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installing the new CDrive

karkauai
 

Glad I asked, Olivier.  I'll post a picture later today.  It has chamfered edges ands looks like it belongs there.
Merci plus!!!
Kent



On Apr 1, 2015, at 3:21 AM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

no there shouldn't be any hole at the bottom/sole of the lower drive unit. The GRP moulding is not hollow. You may plug it with epoxy or polyurethane filler.

Olivier



On Monday, March 30, 2015 2:56 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
I just noticed a small hole in the bottom of the foot, Olivier.  Seems odd that there would be a drain hole.  I guess that is supposed to be there?
Kent


On Mar 29, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi Kent,

the method AMEL indicates for drilling the hole in the foot is right and should not lead you to make a wrong drill. However, your method with the bolt hole fitted with a piece of screw and a nail on top of it to mark the bottom of the foot is also right.
Together with the lower unit, you must have received a stainless steel sleeve, a rubber sleeve for the bolt, and a rubber washer that fits under the foot (between the foot and the ballast).

You're right to mention that making a mistake of a few mm sideways is not so bad. this will not change much to the straightness of the prop's thrust.
The most important is to have the lower unit as much as possible in  line with the upper one in the fore/aft direction.
For that, you should be able to mark the cast iron ballast on both sides, then install the lower unit (foot) and mark it according to the marks on the ballast. But I repeat: your idea of the marking bolt is good.

If you make a mistake, you 'll have to fill up the wrong hole with polyester (or époxy) and fiberglass? and re-drill it.

Bon courage

Olivier.



On Friday, March 27, 2015 5:05 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Bon Jour Olivier,
The CDrive saga continues on Kristy.  I would like yours and Joel's input on replacement of the lower part of the drive.

There is no hole in the foot for the bolt that secures it to the keel.  Amel sent a note suggesting that I mark the center of the hole with fore/aft and starbord/port lines on the keel, install the upper and lower drives to ensure the proper alignment of the lower unit, then mark the foot by transferring the lines on the keel to the foot.  These lines would then be connected across the bottom of the foot and where they intersect would be the center of the hole.

I see two (at least) problems with this approach.  First, the edges of the keel are rounded and it will be impossible to transfer the marks exactly to the foot.  Second, the forward end of the fore/aft line will not be accessible to mark the foot while it is "dry-fit".

I can get around the second issue by drawing a starbord/port line and two lines angled through the center of the hole, and hope that the transfer to the foot will result in three intersecting lines.  I'm guessing they will not be intersecting at one point...then what?

I am thinking of making a dowel that will just fit in the bolt hole, with a screw or nail in the center of the dowel that has been sharpened and is just below the height of the bottom of the foot, and supporting the aft end of the foot with a piece of wood that is just higher than the nail while the upper drive is placed.   Once everything is dry-fit, I'd remove the wood and allow the foot to drop a few mm until it rested on the nail and a dimple was made in the aluminum.  This would be a way to confirm that the line method was correct.

Is it reasonable to think that the hole will be centered between the starbord and port sides of the foot?  Otherwise the boat would go in circles (-:  If so, finding the proper placement fore/aft is the biggest problem...right?

Amel sent a new rubber? washer to go over the bolt.  It's maybe 8 mm thick.  It will not be enough to support the aft end of the foot...does it need to?

I assume that there is very little room for error in drilling the hole in the foot, as even a mm or two off would bind the splines in the vertical shaft.

Another faux pas was that the O-rings Amel sent that go on the vertical shaft were all the same.  It requires one larger and two smaller diameter O-rings that I've had to order from McMaster-Carr...just one more delay.  You may remember that they sent the new lower foot to me, but didn't include the old upper unit or recommend that I replace that as well.  Had to wait another three weeks to get the new upper unit after waiting nearly 6 months for the new lower unit.

Thanks for any advice on how to make sure the hole in the foot is in the correct place...I'm pretty wary about getting it wrong.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Good afternoon Kent,

I guess your mechanic, after a few months, will remember what he did to undo the transmission.
Important:
-secure the new lower unit onto the ballast with a new rubber sleeve, cover the bolt with black silicone filler
-the engine alignment with the upper unit must be checked
-depending on their condition/running hours, it may be good to take the opportunity for replacing the steel frame rubber mounts
-connect the C-drive box to the engine steel frame, check that the steel frame is connected to the zincs (in fact check the resistance between rudder zincs and the propeller, it should be around zero ohm).

Once the C-drive is installed and running, make sure there is no power of any kind on it, as it is originally.
 If there is a leak, it must be found and neutralized...

Bon courage.

Olivier.



On Thursday, January 29, 2015 8:58 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks, Gary.  I'll pass this along to Mike.  Makes sense to me.

I will be assisting/observing the refitting of the CDrive and Yanmar in February.  I'll post pics and a description of the process when it's all in and I've done a sea trial to make sure it's water tight.

Olivier, do you have any words of wisdom about either of these topics?

Thanks and Merci,
Kent


From: amelliahona <no_reply@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Hi Kent:

I have never seen a diagram of the "bonding" system. (yellow/green wires to sacrificial anodes).

As to your other question, as to why the bonding system isn't tied to the battery -ve (negative) post.  I can postulate this theory.   

The bonding system is a protective system designed to carry any stray current/leak current and any galvanically induced current to the sacrificial electrodes.  Amel wanted the DC circuits to be isolated from protective system as those circuits have current flowing thru them any time a DC circuit is in use.  Those circuits should stand on their own, ideally isolated from the bonding circuit and not having leakage current as the electrical componentry normally is "insulated" from that part of the appliance that is in contact with seawater.  In this way the protective circuit only comes into play when there is leakage current from a DC device (due to a fault) or if there is a galvanically induced current from two dissimilar metals (thru hulls etc) and the anodes. .  Remember the case or fitting of any metal object in contact with sea water is tied to the bonding system.  The alternator isn't in contact with sea water.  Its electrical componentry should stand on it's own and in the Amel strategy  the electrical componentry should be isolated electrically from the engine.   If you tie the bonding system and the DC battery negative together you put the protective circuit "on line" with all DC circuits all the time.  Additionally you now provide a parallel pathway for EMF in the seawater (perhaps from a nearby boat with an electrical fault)  to push current via the bonding system, into the DC system where it seeks ground at the battery (electrically we say sinks to ground at -ve).  The DC negative should NOT be connected to the bonding system.  The DC circuits and the bonding circuits should be separate circuits.

Again, not sure I clarified or muddied the waters.  If muddied, let me know and I will try again.

If you get a minute, I for one would be interested in how the C-drive mounts and penetrates the hull etc.  (new topic of course).

All the best, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona   











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

karkauai
 

Yes, I got the gauge numbers and contacted VDO, they were of no help.  The Yanmar ignition panel numbers and tachometer numbers were also of no help, as they are proprietary parts and Yanmar won't give out any information about them, they just want you to replace them with new Yanmar parts.

Amel must have some good connections with Yanmar, or electrical engineers with the know how and tools to get the specs by testing them.
I spent hours, maybe as much as 20-30 hrs talking and emailing to different techs at VDO, Yanmar service, sensor manufacturers, marine electricians, etc. about this and most had little interest. A few sounded interested and asked for more info, but eventually ran into dead ends with them, too.
I had run out of ideas and had decided to live with the non-isolated engine when Maud at Amel finally got back to me...going on 8 weeks after my inquiry.  She had replied to me that their engineers were looking into it, but never replied to 2 subsequent inquiries until they had put the isolation kit together.
I suspect that you could have figured it out, but electricity isn't my best suit and the time required to find and pay someone to do it for me would have been at least as much as Amel charged.
I'm still no marine electrician, but I sure have learned a lot about my boat.  I'll because lot better at troubleshooting than I was a year ago.
We are reinstalling the new CDrive and engine today.  The isolation kit isn't here yet, so that will be added next week when it arrives.
I'll post pics and description of the whole process after it's done.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Mar 31, 2015, at 11:27 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent do you have VDO gauges as I described?

I wish I had received this note yesterday as I was on the boat and I could have given you the pressures and temperatures.

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I did, Eric, but never could confirm the specs on my sensors.  I got the numbers on the hex of each sensor and sent them to a couple different companies who make sensors, but neither one could confirm exactly what they were.  It'll be interesting to see what Amel has put together and how it compares to the 4JH3 sensors.

Kent

SM243

Kristy


On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:42 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Did you look into the sensors for the 4jh3 engine. I believe they will be the same. Do you have VEDO oil and water temp gauges mounted next to you instrument panel?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I'm trying to get my boat as close to its designed electrical system as possible.  I'm all done except for the non-isolated Yanmar I repowered with a few years ago.  The 4JH3 100HP series that were put in SM's for several years do have isolated ground sensors, but Yanmar doesn't list any for the 4JH4 series.  They will not send me the specs on the replacement sensors, I guess to protect their expensive parts business.

I've spent hours of calls and internet search for isolated ground oil pressure and water temp senders and switches, to no avail, but did learn that each sensor has identifying marks on the sides of the hex fitting that is used to tighten the sensors in the engine block.  Those may be used to find replacement parts, but so far I haven't found anyone who is able to provide them with any certainty.

Here's the good news!!!
Amel has put together a kit of the necessary parts to isolate the 4JH4HTE, and is sending it to me for ~800 Euros.  Pretty expensive for what I think it will include, but at least they have the contacts to make it happen.

Hope this saves someone a lot of time and aggravation.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installing the new CDrive

Olivier Beaute
 

Hi Kent,

no there shouldn't be any hole at the bottom/sole of the lower drive unit. The GRP moulding is not hollow. You may plug it with epoxy or polyurethane filler.

Olivier



On Monday, March 30, 2015 2:56 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
I just noticed a small hole in the bottom of the foot, Olivier.  Seems odd that there would be a drain hole.  I guess that is supposed to be there?
Kent


On Mar 29, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi Kent,

the method AMEL indicates for drilling the hole in the foot is right and should not lead you to make a wrong drill. However, your method with the bolt hole fitted with a piece of screw and a nail on top of it to mark the bottom of the foot is also right.
Together with the lower unit, you must have received a stainless steel sleeve, a rubber sleeve for the bolt, and a rubber washer that fits under the foot (between the foot and the ballast).

You're right to mention that making a mistake of a few mm sideways is not so bad. this will not change much to the straightness of the prop's thrust.
The most important is to have the lower unit as much as possible in  line with the upper one in the fore/aft direction.
For that, you should be able to mark the cast iron ballast on both sides, then install the lower unit (foot) and mark it according to the marks on the ballast. But I repeat: your idea of the marking bolt is good.

If you make a mistake, you 'll have to fill up the wrong hole with polyester (or époxy) and fiberglass? and re-drill it.

Bon courage

Olivier.



On Friday, March 27, 2015 5:05 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Bon Jour Olivier,
The CDrive saga continues on Kristy.  I would like yours and Joel's input on replacement of the lower part of the drive.

There is no hole in the foot for the bolt that secures it to the keel.  Amel sent a note suggesting that I mark the center of the hole with fore/aft and starbord/port lines on the keel, install the upper and lower drives to ensure the proper alignment of the lower unit, then mark the foot by transferring the lines on the keel to the foot.  These lines would then be connected across the bottom of the foot and where they intersect would be the center of the hole.

I see two (at least) problems with this approach.  First, the edges of the keel are rounded and it will be impossible to transfer the marks exactly to the foot.  Second, the forward end of the fore/aft line will not be accessible to mark the foot while it is "dry-fit".

I can get around the second issue by drawing a starbord/port line and two lines angled through the center of the hole, and hope that the transfer to the foot will result in three intersecting lines.  I'm guessing they will not be intersecting at one point...then what?

I am thinking of making a dowel that will just fit in the bolt hole, with a screw or nail in the center of the dowel that has been sharpened and is just below the height of the bottom of the foot, and supporting the aft end of the foot with a piece of wood that is just higher than the nail while the upper drive is placed.   Once everything is dry-fit, I'd remove the wood and allow the foot to drop a few mm until it rested on the nail and a dimple was made in the aluminum.  This would be a way to confirm that the line method was correct.

Is it reasonable to think that the hole will be centered between the starbord and port sides of the foot?  Otherwise the boat would go in circles (-:  If so, finding the proper placement fore/aft is the biggest problem...right?

Amel sent a new rubber? washer to go over the bolt.  It's maybe 8 mm thick.  It will not be enough to support the aft end of the foot...does it need to?

I assume that there is very little room for error in drilling the hole in the foot, as even a mm or two off would bind the splines in the vertical shaft.

Another faux pas was that the O-rings Amel sent that go on the vertical shaft were all the same.  It requires one larger and two smaller diameter O-rings that I've had to order from McMaster-Carr...just one more delay.  You may remember that they sent the new lower foot to me, but didn't include the old upper unit or recommend that I replace that as well.  Had to wait another three weeks to get the new upper unit after waiting nearly 6 months for the new lower unit.

Thanks for any advice on how to make sure the hole in the foot is in the correct place...I'm pretty wary about getting it wrong.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Good afternoon Kent,

I guess your mechanic, after a few months, will remember what he did to undo the transmission.
Important:
-secure the new lower unit onto the ballast with a new rubber sleeve, cover the bolt with black silicone filler
-the engine alignment with the upper unit must be checked
-depending on their condition/running hours, it may be good to take the opportunity for replacing the steel frame rubber mounts
-connect the C-drive box to the engine steel frame, check that the steel frame is connected to the zincs (in fact check the resistance between rudder zincs and the propeller, it should be around zero ohm).

Once the C-drive is installed and running, make sure there is no power of any kind on it, as it is originally.
 If there is a leak, it must be found and neutralized...

Bon courage.

Olivier.



On Thursday, January 29, 2015 8:58 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks, Gary.  I'll pass this along to Mike.  Makes sense to me.

I will be assisting/observing the refitting of the CDrive and Yanmar in February.  I'll post pics and a description of the process when it's all in and I've done a sea trial to make sure it's water tight.

Olivier, do you have any words of wisdom about either of these topics?

Thanks and Merci,
Kent


From: amelliahona <no_reply@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Hi Kent:

I have never seen a diagram of the "bonding" system. (yellow/green wires to sacrificial anodes).

As to your other question, as to why the bonding system isn't tied to the battery -ve (negative) post.  I can postulate this theory.   

The bonding system is a protective system designed to carry any stray current/leak current and any galvanically induced current to the sacrificial electrodes.  Amel wanted the DC circuits to be isolated from protective system as those circuits have current flowing thru them any time a DC circuit is in use.  Those circuits should stand on their own, ideally isolated from the bonding circuit and not having leakage current as the electrical componentry normally is "insulated" from that part of the appliance that is in contact with seawater.  In this way the protective circuit only comes into play when there is leakage current from a DC device (due to a fault) or if there is a galvanically induced current from two dissimilar metals (thru hulls etc) and the anodes. .  Remember the case or fitting of any metal object in contact with sea water is tied to the bonding system.  The alternator isn't in contact with sea water.  Its electrical componentry should stand on it's own and in the Amel strategy  the electrical componentry should be isolated electrically from the engine.   If you tie the bonding system and the DC battery negative together you put the protective circuit "on line" with all DC circuits all the time.  Additionally you now provide a parallel pathway for EMF in the seawater (perhaps from a nearby boat with an electrical fault)  to push current via the bonding system, into the DC system where it seeks ground at the battery (electrically we say sinks to ground at -ve).  The DC negative should NOT be connected to the bonding system.  The DC circuits and the bonding circuits should be separate circuits.

Again, not sure I clarified or muddied the waters.  If muddied, let me know and I will try again.

If you get a minute, I for one would be interested in how the C-drive mounts and penetrates the hull etc.  (new topic of course).

All the best, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona   











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

If I remember correctly I brought my old sensor into an auto supply and they matched it up with a standard dual wire sensors , the same with the VDO gauge senders.

The whole lot cost me about 25-50 each.

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I did, Eric, but never could confirm the specs on my sensors.  I got the numbers on the hex of each sensor and sent them to a couple different companies who make sensors, but neither one could confirm exactly what they were.  It'll be interesting to see what Amel has put together and how it compares to the 4JH3 sensors.

Kent

SM243

Kristy


On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:42 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Did you look into the sensors for the 4jh3 engine. I believe they will be the same. Do you have VEDO oil and water temp gauges mounted next to you instrument panel?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I'm trying to get my boat as close to its designed electrical system as possible.  I'm all done except for the non-isolated Yanmar I repowered with a few years ago.  The 4JH3 100HP series that were put in SM's for several years do have isolated ground sensors, but Yanmar doesn't list any for the 4JH4 series.  They will not send me the specs on the replacement sensors, I guess to protect their expensive parts business.

I've spent hours of calls and internet search for isolated ground oil pressure and water temp senders and switches, to no avail, but did learn that each sensor has identifying marks on the sides of the hex fitting that is used to tighten the sensors in the engine block.  Those may be used to find replacement parts, but so far I haven't found anyone who is able to provide them with any certainty.

Here's the good news!!!
Amel has put together a kit of the necessary parts to isolate the 4JH4HTE, and is sending it to me for ~800 Euros.  Pretty expensive for what I think it will include, but at least they have the contacts to make it happen.

Hope this saves someone a lot of time and aggravation.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Kent do you have VDO gauges as I described?

I wish I had received this note yesterday as I was on the boat and I could have given you the pressures and temperatures.

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 11:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I did, Eric, but never could confirm the specs on my sensors.  I got the numbers on the hex of each sensor and sent them to a couple different companies who make sensors, but neither one could confirm exactly what they were.  It'll be interesting to see what Amel has put together and how it compares to the 4JH3 sensors.

Kent

SM243

Kristy


On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:42 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Did you look into the sensors for the 4jh3 engine. I believe they will be the same. Do you have VEDO oil and water temp gauges mounted next to you instrument panel?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I'm trying to get my boat as close to its designed electrical system as possible.  I'm all done except for the non-isolated Yanmar I repowered with a few years ago.  The 4JH3 100HP series that were put in SM's for several years do have isolated ground sensors, but Yanmar doesn't list any for the 4JH4 series.  They will not send me the specs on the replacement sensors, I guess to protect their expensive parts business.

I've spent hours of calls and internet search for isolated ground oil pressure and water temp senders and switches, to no avail, but did learn that each sensor has identifying marks on the sides of the hex fitting that is used to tighten the sensors in the engine block.  Those may be used to find replacement parts, but so far I haven't found anyone who is able to provide them with any certainty.

Here's the good news!!!
Amel has put together a kit of the necessary parts to isolate the 4JH4HTE, and is sending it to me for ~800 Euros.  Pretty expensive for what I think it will include, but at least they have the contacts to make it happen.

Hope this saves someone a lot of time and aggravation.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

karkauai
 

I did, Eric, but never could confirm the specs on my sensors.  I got the numbers on the hex of each sensor and sent them to a couple different companies who make sensors, but neither one could confirm exactly what they were.  It'll be interesting to see what Amel has put together and how it compares to the 4JH3 sensors.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


On Mar 31, 2015, at 10:42 PM, sailormon kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kent,

Did you look into the sensors for the 4jh3 engine. I believe they will be the same. Do you have VEDO oil and water temp gauges mounted next to you instrument panel?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I'm trying to get my boat as close to its designed electrical system as possible.  I'm all done except for the non-isolated Yanmar I repowered with a few years ago.  The 4JH3 100HP series that were put in SM's for several years do have isolated ground sensors, but Yanmar doesn't list any for the 4JH4 series.  They will not send me the specs on the replacement sensors, I guess to protect their expensive parts business.

I've spent hours of calls and internet search for isolated ground oil pressure and water temp senders and switches, to no avail, but did learn that each sensor has identifying marks on the sides of the hex fitting that is used to tighten the sensors in the engine block.  Those may be used to find replacement parts, but so far I haven't found anyone who is able to provide them with any certainty.

Here's the good news!!!
Amel has put together a kit of the necessary parts to isolate the 4JH4HTE, and is sending it to me for ~800 Euros.  Pretty expensive for what I think it will include, but at least they have the contacts to make it happen.

Hope this saves someone a lot of time and aggravation.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

sailormon <kimberlite@...>
 

Kent,

Did you look into the sensors for the 4jh3 engine. I believe they will be the same. Do you have VEDO oil and water temp gauges mounted next to you instrument panel?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 27, 2015 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electrical Isolation of the Yanmar 4JH4HTE 110HP

 

 

I'm trying to get my boat as close to its designed electrical system as possible.  I'm all done except for the non-isolated Yanmar I repowered with a few years ago.  The 4JH3 100HP series that were put in SM's for several years do have isolated ground sensors, but Yanmar doesn't list any for the 4JH4 series.  They will not send me the specs on the replacement sensors, I guess to protect their expensive parts business.

I've spent hours of calls and internet search for isolated ground oil pressure and water temp senders and switches, to no avail, but did learn that each sensor has identifying marks on the sides of the hex fitting that is used to tighten the sensors in the engine block.  Those may be used to find replacement parts, but so far I haven't found anyone who is able to provide them with any certainty.

Here's the good news!!!
Amel has put together a kit of the necessary parts to isolate the 4JH4HTE, and is sending it to me for ~800 Euros.  Pretty expensive for what I think it will include, but at least they have the contacts to make it happen.

Hope this saves someone a lot of time and aggravation.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thank you Bill, Jeff, Kent & Mark,

Will follow your recommendations.

Thanks again, hope you have a great day.

Last weekend, I cleaned the bilge and changed the copper strap, will post some pictures at some point for the group.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 3/31/15, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, March 31, 2015, 7:34 AM


 









There are a lot of ways to
troubleshoot. One of the problems with an internal water
heater leak is that it may only leak when the water inside
is very hot.
If you can, take off the two hoses going to the
water heater. You will likely lose coolant when you do this,
so be prepared. Also, I think Amel uses some sort of glue on
these hoses. You probably will have to cut them off. Also,
it is very likely the hoses attach to copper pipe...be
careful not to bend or deform the copper...probably the best
advise is cut the hose. Then using a piece of pipe with an
outside diameter of the inside diameter of the hose, join
the two ends on each end of the pipe and use hose clamps to
secure them.
Run your engine sufficient time to reach
operating temperature and mark the level in the coolant
overflow tank. Continue running long enough to lose some
coolant...the same amount of time you have previously been
losing coolant.
If you lose coolant, there is an issue with the
engine...call those mechanics back.
If you do not lose coolant, shop for a water
heater. Amel used an Isotemp Basic 40 230V in later model
SMs. It is still available, although Isotemp has added a
thermostat mixing valve that may get in the way when
installing. Rather than deal with that, I removed it and
documented the process in the Photos section of this Group.

One suggestion is that Isotemp makes the Basic
40 with two pathways (circuits) for coolant...it does not
cost too much more, and will give you a circuit to plumb
coolant from the Onan to the water heater. A nice feature, I
think. Of course the second isolated coolant circuit could
be used when a leak happens in the first. Check it out...I
think it is about $150 more.
I hope this helps you.
Bill Rouse

BeBe Amel 53 #387

Sent from my tablet

+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile

+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail
On Mar 31, 2015 1:50 PM,
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 









Good morning,



Back in December a mechanic suggested (among a lot of work)
to remove and clean the heat exchanger, etc.

Since they put back, the engine is loosing coolant every
time I use it and they don’t seem to find the leak.

Is that possible that coincidentally, my hot water heater
broke and the coolant is going in it?

Any suggestion? How to troubleshoot?

Thanks in advance.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Fort Lauderdale, USA.
































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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

JEFFREY KRAUS
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

There are a lot of ways to troubleshoot. One of the problems with an internal water heater leak is that it may only leak when the water inside is very hot.

If you can, take off the two hoses going to the water heater. You will likely lose coolant when you do this, so be prepared. Also, I think Amel uses some sort of glue on these hoses. You probably will have to cut them off. Also, it is very likely the hoses attach to copper pipe...be careful not to bend or deform the copper...probably the best advise is cut the hose. Then using a piece of pipe with an outside diameter of the inside diameter of the hose, join the two ends on each end of the pipe and use hose clamps to secure them.

Run your engine sufficient time to reach operating temperature and mark the level in the coolant overflow tank. Continue running long enough to lose some coolant...the same amount of time you have previously been losing coolant.

If you lose coolant, there is an issue with the engine...call those mechanics back.

If you do not lose coolant, shop for a water heater. Amel used an Isotemp Basic 40 230V in later model SMs. It is still available, although Isotemp has added a thermostat mixing valve that may get in the way when installing. Rather than deal with that, I removed it and documented the process in the Photos section of this Group.

One suggestion is that Isotemp makes the Basic 40 with two pathways (circuits) for coolant...it does not cost too much more, and will give you a circuit to plumb coolant from the Onan to the water heater. A nice feature, I think. Of course the second isolated coolant circuit could be used when a leak happens in the first. Check it out...I think it is about $150 more.

I hope this helps you.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+39 333 121 8115 Italy Mobile
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Mar 31, 2015 1:50 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning,

Back in December a mechanic suggested (among a lot of work) to remove and clean the heat exchanger, etc.
Since they put back, the engine is loosing coolant every time I use it and they don’t seem to find the leak.
Is that possible that coincidentally, my hot water heater broke and the coolant is going in it?
Any suggestion? How to troubleshoot?
Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Fort Lauderdale, USA.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

Mark Erdos
 

Hi Alexandre,



Remove the coolant hoses from the hot water heater and connect them together (outside of the water heater), run the engine and see if you continue to lose coolant. This will let you know if the hot water heater is the culprit.







With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:50 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?





Good morning,

Back in December a mechanic suggested (among a lot of work) to remove and clean the heat exchanger, etc.
Since they put back, the engine is loosing coolant every time I use it and they don’t seem to find the leak.
Is that possible that coincidentally, my hot water heater broke and the coolant is going in it?
Any suggestion? How to troubleshoot?
Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Fort Lauderdale, USA.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

karkauai
 

Hi Alexandre,
If you search the site, you will find a couple other threads about this issue.  If you are losing coolant, it's probably a leak in your engine's heat exchanger.  If you are seeing the  coolant overflow tank filling up with extra fluid, it is probably your water heater  coil that has a leak.  If your fresh water system is not pressurized and you run the engine, you could get coolant in your fresh water system if that's where your leak is.  That would be a dangerous situation, as coolant can be toxic. (The pink "RV" coolant is not so bad.)

It's probably the heat exchanger that has the leak.  I don't know why it would occur after removing and cleaning, but they must have done something that created a pinhole between the raw water and the coolant.

Good luck,
Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2015 7:49 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

 
Good morning,

Back in December a mechanic suggested (among a lot of work) to remove and clean the heat exchanger, etc.
Since they put back, the engine is loosing coolant every time I use it and they don’t seem to find the leak.
Is that possible that coincidentally, my hot water heater broke and the coolant is going in it?
Any suggestion? How to troubleshoot?
Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Fort Lauderdale, USA.



Engine coolant going into Hot water heater?

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning,

Back in December a mechanic suggested (among a lot of work) to remove and clean the heat exchanger, etc.
Since they put back, the engine is loosing coolant every time I use it and they don’t seem to find the leak.
Is that possible that coincidentally, my hot water heater broke and the coolant is going in it?
Any suggestion? How to troubleshoot?
Thanks in advance.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Fort Lauderdale, USA.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diesel fuel tank access port or ports for OLD Maramu

rossny@mail.com
 

Hi Joel,
I have posted a couple of photos of the top of my fuel tank for you (and the group if anyone is interested) under the heading "Fuel Tank Maramu #261 1989.
 Don't know why the text turned larger... 
not trying to shout.

 And hey my boat is now floating again in liquid water... still cold but liquid.
Let me know if these photos will help you help me, 

Thawing out in NYC,
Ross


Re: Countertop Mats/Fridge

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello!
Concerning the top loaded fridge instead of a dishwasher, did you bought a ready made fridge or an on purpose built? If ready made, what make and model? Today we only have an empty hole so need to fill it with something better than a dishwasher, a fridge are high on the list
Paul S/Y Kerpa


Countertop Mats

rossirossix4
 

We thought we would share a solution we found for the slippery Corian-like counter tops.  OXO "Good Grip" silicone drying mats.  Advantages--

  • they are designed to contain liquids or other spilled substances
  • almost perfect pre-sized for the SM counters.  We bought 5 "Large"; 1 "Square"; and 2 "Rectangular" --16.9" x 12.5"; 12" x 12"; 17" x 6".
  •  easy to clean, food safe silicone
  • withstand up to 425F, so you can set a hot pan on them
  • neutral color, durable, stain resistant
  • highly slip resistant and you can still use a regular cutting board and drying rack on top of them
  • relatively inexpensive--we bought all 8 from Amazon for $121 

DropBox pictures (click for larger image/slide show) of them are here--https://www.dropbox.com/sc/50m5p0u2azlxx9x/AADSYlsvOfGtVVqDSazOqHX2a  (BTW coffee cups are Ikea)


We used 5 of the large because our dishwasher was converted to a toploading fridge.  Not sure of the dimension size of the dishwasher.


Suzanne and Bob

SM 429 KAIMI in Italy

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Installing the new CDrive

karkauai
 

I just noticed a small hole in the bottom of the foot, Olivier.  Seems odd that there would be a drain hole.  I guess that is supposed to be there?
Kent


On Mar 29, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Kent,

the method AMEL indicates for drilling the hole in the foot is right and should not lead you to make a wrong drill. However, your method with the bolt hole fitted with a piece of screw and a nail on top of it to mark the bottom of the foot is also right.
Together with the lower unit, you must have received a stainless steel sleeve, a rubber sleeve for the bolt, and a rubber washer that fits under the foot (between the foot and the ballast).

You're right to mention that making a mistake of a few mm sideways is not so bad. this will not change much to the straightness of the prop's thrust.
The most important is to have the lower unit as much as possible in  line with the upper one in the fore/aft direction.
For that, you should be able to mark the cast iron ballast on both sides, then install the lower unit (foot) and mark it according to the marks on the ballast. But I repeat: your idea of the marking bolt is good.

If you make a mistake, you 'll have to fill up the wrong hole with polyester (or époxy) and fiberglass? and re-drill it.

Bon courage

Olivier.



On Friday, March 27, 2015 5:05 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Bon Jour Olivier,
The CDrive saga continues on Kristy.  I would like yours and Joel's input on replacement of the lower part of the drive.

There is no hole in the foot for the bolt that secures it to the keel.  Amel sent a note suggesting that I mark the center of the hole with fore/aft and starbord/port lines on the keel, install the upper and lower drives to ensure the proper alignment of the lower unit, then mark the foot by transferring the lines on the keel to the foot.  These lines would then be connected across the bottom of the foot and where they intersect would be the center of the hole.

I see two (at least) problems with this approach.  First, the edges of the keel are rounded and it will be impossible to transfer the marks exactly to the foot.  Second, the forward end of the fore/aft line will not be accessible to mark the foot while it is "dry-fit".

I can get around the second issue by drawing a starbord/port line and two lines angled through the center of the hole, and hope that the transfer to the foot will result in three intersecting lines.  I'm guessing they will not be intersecting at one point...then what?

I am thinking of making a dowel that will just fit in the bolt hole, with a screw or nail in the center of the dowel that has been sharpened and is just below the height of the bottom of the foot, and supporting the aft end of the foot with a piece of wood that is just higher than the nail while the upper drive is placed.   Once everything is dry-fit, I'd remove the wood and allow the foot to drop a few mm until it rested on the nail and a dimple was made in the aluminum.  This would be a way to confirm that the line method was correct.

Is it reasonable to think that the hole will be centered between the starbord and port sides of the foot?  Otherwise the boat would go in circles (-:  If so, finding the proper placement fore/aft is the biggest problem...right?

Amel sent a new rubber? washer to go over the bolt.  It's maybe 8 mm thick.  It will not be enough to support the aft end of the foot...does it need to?

I assume that there is very little room for error in drilling the hole in the foot, as even a mm or two off would bind the splines in the vertical shaft.

Another faux pas was that the O-rings Amel sent that go on the vertical shaft were all the same.  It requires one larger and two smaller diameter O-rings that I've had to order from McMaster-Carr...just one more delay.  You may remember that they sent the new lower foot to me, but didn't include the old upper unit or recommend that I replace that as well.  Had to wait another three weeks to get the new upper unit after waiting nearly 6 months for the new lower unit.

Thanks for any advice on how to make sure the hole in the foot is in the correct place...I'm pretty wary about getting it wrong.

Kent
SM243
Kristy


From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Good afternoon Kent,

I guess your mechanic, after a few months, will remember what he did to undo the transmission.
Important:
-secure the new lower unit onto the ballast with a new rubber sleeve, cover the bolt with black silicone filler
-the engine alignment with the upper unit must be checked
-depending on their condition/running hours, it may be good to take the opportunity for replacing the steel frame rubber mounts
-connect the C-drive box to the engine steel frame, check that the steel frame is connected to the zincs (in fact check the resistance between rudder zincs and the propeller, it should be around zero ohm).

Once the C-drive is installed and running, make sure there is no power of any kind on it, as it is originally.
 If there is a leak, it must be found and neutralized...

Bon courage.

Olivier.



On Thursday, January 29, 2015 8:58 PM, "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Thanks, Gary.  I'll pass this along to Mike.  Makes sense to me.

I will be assisting/observing the refitting of the CDrive and Yanmar in February.  I'll post pics and a description of the process when it's all in and I've done a sea trial to make sure it's water tight.

Olivier, do you have any words of wisdom about either of these topics?

Thanks and Merci,
Kent


From: amelliahona <no_reply@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 2:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Prop Shaft Electrolysis

 
Hi Kent:

I have never seen a diagram of the "bonding" system. (yellow/green wires to sacrificial anodes).

As to your other question, as to why the bonding system isn't tied to the battery -ve (negative) post.  I can postulate this theory.   

The bonding system is a protective system designed to carry any stray current/leak current and any galvanically induced current to the sacrificial electrodes.  Amel wanted the DC circuits to be isolated from protective system as those circuits have current flowing thru them any time a DC circuit is in use.  Those circuits should stand on their own, ideally isolated from the bonding circuit and not having leakage current as the electrical componentry normally is "insulated" from that part of the appliance that is in contact with seawater.  In this way the protective circuit only comes into play when there is leakage current from a DC device (due to a fault) or if there is a galvanically induced current from two dissimilar metals (thru hulls etc) and the anodes. .  Remember the case or fitting of any metal object in contact with sea water is tied to the bonding system.  The alternator isn't in contact with sea water.  Its electrical componentry should stand on it's own and in the Amel strategy  the electrical componentry should be isolated electrically from the engine.   If you tie the bonding system and the DC battery negative together you put the protective circuit "on line" with all DC circuits all the time.  Additionally you now provide a parallel pathway for EMF in the seawater (perhaps from a nearby boat with an electrical fault)  to push current via the bonding system, into the DC system where it seeks ground at the battery (electrically we say sinks to ground at -ve).  The DC negative should NOT be connected to the bonding system.  The DC circuits and the bonding circuits should be separate circuits.

Again, not sure I clarified or muddied the waters.  If muddied, let me know and I will try again.

If you get a minute, I for one would be interested in how the C-drive mounts and penetrates the hull etc.  (new topic of course).

All the best, 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona