Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tricolor & Anchor light still not working...

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Bill:

When you changed the polarity at the masthead as you installed your LED lamps, did you have to swap wires to the bulb sockets or were you just able to insert the bulbs in a different orientation (i.e. 180 degrees of rotation in the socket)?

I don't recall what type of bayonet pin configuration there is in these sockets (it has been years since I last change a bulb).  Looking at the AquaSignal Web site it appears they are Series 40 fixtures and as best as I can make out from the AS literature, the socket pin configuration has the pins offset from one another making the socket polarity sensitive.  An incandescent bulb isn't polarity sensitive (obviously) and some sockets are polarity sensitive and others aren't, (e.g. pins on the lamp base directly across from each other and two identical contacts on the bottom of the bulb vs offset pins).  Then again even if the socket is polarity sensitive (due to pin or contact orientation), it doesn't mean the wiring was installed based on a particular polarity.  

As I have researched these LED lamps it appears that most have a IC (integrated circuit) voltage regulator as part of their circuity.  I can conceive of a scenario where this component is faulty and not providing current blocking and or shorted in some manner yielding the symptoms.

Thanks for your input. 

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
Amel SM 335


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tricolor & Anchor light still not working...

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex and Gary,

I am a "ShadeTree Electrician," with a certificate from Sears, but...

The reason I suggested polarity is twofold: One is that early LEDs required reverse polarity, and secondly, when I converted the anchor light to LED lighting, I had to change the polarity at the masthead socket to reverse the polarity because with 3 wires, the two bulbs at the masthead shared a common negative. Because of this common negative, I could not change the polarity at the wiring block outside the forward head.

As I said at the beginning of this thread, I believe there is some sort of polarity problem caused because the previous owner, or Amel, did something to overcome the required polarity issue with early LED bulbs.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Feb 1, 2015 12:25 AM, "amelliahona" <no_reply@...> wrote:

 

Hi Alexandre:


Here is what I think is going on.  I am a bit uncertain because of two unknowns to me.  The unknowns are:
a) is the socket pin configuration at the mast head for the lamp such that the LED lamp can be installed in one of two polarities or just in one polarity, 
b) the exact circuitry of the LED lamps (they are seldom just LEDs alone and will often have some current limiting circuity).

I believe that your Anchor light LED bulb is installed in the wrong polarity or it is faulty, possibly in a shorted failure mode.  With it shorted, partially shorted of placed in the wrong polarity;  when the Tricolor is turned on, current is back fed thru wire (4) to wire (2) thence to the Anchor LED at the panel and to ground, obviously with enough resistance to only allow a partial illumination of the yellow LED.  With the Anchor lamp installed in the wrong polarity it acts as a blocki ng diode not allowing it to illuminate the Anchor "lamp" at the masthead, but allowing enough passage of current to back feed the Tricolor 24 volt panel Red LED at a lower current and voltage to account for it's dimness.  

I don't believe you have any wiring problem at all.  I would be completely surprised if you find any fault in the wiring/sockets etc.   I believe this is completely an LED lamp issue.  To confirm this, when you go up the mast take a couple of incandescent bulbs, place those and see if everything works normally.  I am convinced that you will find that all is normal. One the wiring is confirmed, then replace known good LED lamps and see what your findings are.  

I'll be anxiously awaiting the results, and do be careful going up the mast.  My personal kit and method for going up the mast is to take some small diameter line to be able to raise and lower parts or tools that I might need and by way of safety precautions I take a handheld VHF radio (to call for help if needed), a knife to deal with emergency line entanglements, and I always go up with two halyards or a halyard and a prussic or ascender on a back up line (I did a fare amount of mountaineering/rock climbing in my younger years and never ever relied on a single piece of protective equipment).  Also we never use a self tailing electric winch (remember the stuck on electric winch scenario that severely injured two folks at Jolly Harbor Antigua a few years ago), we only use a self tailed line on the windlass so that a stuck on windlass operation won't cause an un-controlled ascent/descent.

All the best, & nbsp;

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona   SM 335


Bowthruster on AMEL 54 suddenly stops; Propellers clear

luvkante
 

Dear friends,

When I was manouevering last time, all of the sudden the bowthruster-propeller "disengaged".
I checked under water: both propellers are ok. No object inside. Both props turn (to) freely.

Most of the functions of the bowthruster are ok: it goes properly up and 
down and the electrical motor works to the right and the left.

BUT:  THERE IS NO MORE MECHANICAL CONNECTION BETWEEN THE ELECTRICAL MOTOR
AND THE PROPELLER!

The motor runs at EXTREME HIGH RPM and quite loud because there is no more
load. 

My question: CAN IT BE A COUPLING OR A GEAR WHICH BROKE?

I opened the bowthruster-box and at a first glance everything looked normal.




Thanks in advance for your support.

Martin
AMEL 54 #149 CHIARA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

hanspeter baettig
 

To Eric, Kimberlite
Eric Your comments about Europen 220 System.
You are not correct and it was writen a Lot of confusing stuff about invertets, boundings , Yellow/green
In Europe we have of course 220 V 50 Hz
Brown , Blue and earth
The Blue is neutral otherwise we do not have 220 Volt. Neutral has nothing to do with neutral we call them Null Leiter (in German)
So, the Brown and the Blue are hot. Nothing to do with earth/g/y
In the US we put 2 110 v Lines to 220 v easy, but still 60 Hz
Hanspeter
SM/16 Tamango 2
Hanspeter Baettig
Dipl. El. Ing. ETS



Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 30.01.2015 um 16:26 schrieb "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi again, everyone.
Another question about galvanic isolation.
I do not have an isolation transformer, but I do have a transformer for 110 shorepower that produces 220VAC. Both the direct 220 and the 220 from the transformer enter a junction box on the forward engine room bulkhead. There are two receptacles, one marked 110 to 220 transformer, the other marked 220 direct. I have to switch the plug from one to the other depending on whether I'm hooked up to 220 or 110 shorepower.

I want to add a galvanic isolator to my shore power connections. Do I have to have two of them (one for the 110 input and the other for the 220 input), or can I put a single unit in on the output which takes either to the boat systems? Or is there a unit that would accept both the 110 input and the 220 input where they enter the boat (I guess in the aft lazarette)? Can anyone suggest a specific unit that works for this application on your Amel?

Thanks in advance,
Kent

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/30/15, kimberlite@... wrote:
Hi ,you use the word neutral in your comments about
your inverter charger.Here
in the usa there are 4 wires on a 220 volt circuit. 2 hot
leads each 110 volts (usually red and black) and a neutral
white.There is also a green
Ground ( earth)
European
wiring does not have a neutral just 220 volts between the
blue and brown wire and a yellow green earth.
The yellow green earth on the Ac circuit
should not be connected to the boat bonding. even though the
wires are the same color Yellow-Green.  Although
ABYC regulations say that the AC earth should be connected
together with the boats bonding- this is a bad
idea.The Ac circuits and
the DC circuits and bonding should be kept separate. In fact
there should also be a Galvanic isolator installed in the
AC earth (yellow green wire)Connecting the Ac earth and the bonding together
is an accident waiting to happen.Connecting the earth to the bonding will allow any
stray  electrical currents to  flow from the ac side
through the bonding.Where
is the isolation transformer installed in the circuit on
your boat and how is the earth wire
connected?Fair
windsEricsm376


Fair 
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Lamb
andrew.lamb@... [amelyachtowners]"

Date: Friday, January
30, 2015 1:26 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht
Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: "amelyachtowners@..."


> Dear Gary
>
> This discussion is
very interesting and I am now a lot clearer
> about the DC circuits and the bonding, an
area I am unclear
> about however is the
Earth lead on the AC circuit and the
>
bonding system.
>
>
In our Amel the 100Amp mastervolt was replaced by a
Victron 
> Charger / inverter and an
Isolation transformer. As I recall,
>
the Earth in the boat AC system originates from the Neutral
on
> the boat side of the isolation
transformer. Logic would suggest
> to me
that the boat metal work should be connected to the boat
> AC earth so that the earth leakage circuit
breakers will work if
> an electrical
fault in an AC device rendered the casing of a
> device connected to boat AC Live. This
maybe particularly
> important as many
consumer devices do not have an earth wire -
> but is this consistent with your
statement? This would imply
> that in a
Charger / inverter that DC –ve should be independent
> but that AC Earth and Charge / inverter
casing should be
> connected to the boat
bonding?
>
>
Andrew
>
>
> Ronpische
> SM2k 472
> Canet en Roussillion, France
>
>
>
> From:
amelyachtowners@...
>
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of
amelliahona
> Sent: Thursday, January 29,
2015 10:35 PM
> To:
amelyachtowners@...
>
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
>
>
>
> Dear Mark:
>
> Regarding a
charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my prior
> email if you are confused on these terms,
they are definitely
> different). As I
understand your question, I think you have it
> backwards. Since a charger/inverter
isn't in contact with sea
> water,
both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
> battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal.
The AC output side
> should be connected
via circuit protection including GFCI
>
(ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging
circuits
> go to batteries as per the
manufacturers directions. It is my
>
opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green
wires)
> should NOT be attached to the
inverter charger.
>
>
Download the installation manual for anything you are
> considering installing and make sure you
thoroughly understand
> it before
buying/installing.
>
> All the best,
>
> Gary Silver
> s/v
Liahona SM 335
>
>











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Amel's Bonding System

INUS - BUSCH
 

Hello,

sorry for another post about bonding:

From the postings so far I understood that the Amels have a "fully insulated two-wire d.c. system" with an "equipotential bonding conductor". I found these terms in the international standard ISO 10133 Small craft - Electrical systems - d.c. installations. And there is written:
"4.2 An equipotential bonding conductor, if fitted, shall be connected to the craft's main grounding/earthing point."

Is there any information where this "main grounding/earthing point" is found on a Sharki? I was looking and cannot find the metal bar in the bilge, which other Amel owners found in their bilge. Or does the Sharki does not have such a point?

Any help very appreciated.

Dieter
Amel Sharki #135, Fal-lera



new 220 volt inverter

kimberlite@...
 


Re: More electrical goodness.

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Gary: 

Regarding these statements, 

 "With the master breaker on and the 220Volt house beeaker off there is about 5 to 6 vac showing between the right hand receptacle hole and the ground lug. The left receptacle hole shows 113vac against the ground lug but 0 vac against the right receptacle hole.

I know it only takes 0.03 amps to trip this GFI and of course I'm pretty suspicious that there's something quite wrong with the shore power but can't prove it, because it tripped on the genset too"

I am a bit confused by the above, perhaps your boat is wired differently than mine.  When you say " master breaker " what are you referring to?  Same with " house breaker "?  The voltages you are referring to, are you measuring at one of the 220 VAC recepticals (outlets) with the 220 VAC outlet breaker set?  What voltage did you measure between the two " holes "?  Where exactly did you check the incoming " feed " voltage?, (e.g. at the back of the main disconnect as defined below, or elsewhere)

My boat has a CB/GFCI  (32 Amp CB with 30 mA GFCI) mounted to the inboard side of the 220 VAC panel enclosure box above the galley sink.  It is the main disconnect for the 220 VAC panel & thus all 220 VAC circuits. I am guessing that is what you are calling the " house breaker ", but I'm not sure.

Keep in mind that circuit breakers are thermal devices and should be allowed to cool between resets.  That said, the possibilities are: (not necessarily in order of probability)

1) GFCI fault due to faulty wiring downstream (isolate by opening all 220 VAC CBs on the panel, resetting the main disconnect CB and see if it stays set, then if it stays set, one circuit at a time try each circuits CB to see if any particular one will trip the main disconnect)

2) CB overload, too much current draw (use a clamp amp meter to see how much total current is being drawn, this takes opening the 220 VAC panel so be careful not to kill yourself.  Perhaps there is an appliance fault drawing too much current, e.g. stalled A/C compressor that isn't drawing too much to trip it's own CB but added to the total load is greater than 32 A.)

3) Faulty CB ( these are electrical/mechanical devices) and can have weak springs, corroded or pitted contacts, corrosion internally etc)

4) Faulty GFCI (been there)

5) Loose or corroded wiring where it enters the CB/GFCI or loose or corroded wiring elsewhere in the 220 VAC wiring.

Hope that helps, clarifications of noted items would be helpful.

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona  SM 335





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tricolor & Anchor light still not working…

amelliahona <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Alexandre:

Here is what I think is going on.  I am a bit uncertain because of two unknowns to me.  The unknowns are:
a) is the socket pin configuration at the mast head for the lamp such that the LED lamp can be installed in one of two polarities or just in one polarity, 
b) the exact circuitry of the LED lamps (they are seldom just LEDs alone and will often have some current limiting circuity).

I believe that your Anchor light LED bulb is installed in the wrong polarity or it is faulty, possibly in a shorted failure mode.  With it shorted, partially shorted of placed in the wrong polarity;  when the Tricolor is turned on, current is back fed thru wire (4) to wire (2) thence to the Anchor LED at the panel and to ground, obviously with enough resistance to only allow a partial illumination of the yellow LED.  With the Anchor lamp installed in the wrong polarity it acts as a blocking diode not allowing it to illuminate the Anchor "lamp" at the masthead, but allowing enough passage of current to back feed the Tricolor 24 volt panel Red LED at a lower current and voltage to account for it's dimness.  

I don't believe you have any wiring problem at all.  I would be completely surprised if you find any fault in the wiring/sockets etc.   I believe this is completely an LED lamp issue.  To confirm this, when you go up the mast take a couple of incandescent bulbs, place those and see if everything works normally.  I am convinced that you will find that all is normal. One the wiring is confirmed, then replace known good LED lamps and see what your findings are.  

I'll be anxiously awaiting the results, and do be careful going up the mast.  My personal kit and method for going up the mast is to take some small diameter line to be able to raise and lower parts or tools that I might need and by way of safety precautions I take a handheld VHF radio (to call for help if needed), a knife to deal with emergency line entanglements, and I always go up with two halyards or a halyard and a prussic or ascender on a back up line (I did a fare amount of mountaineering/rock climbing in my younger years and never ever relied on a single piece of protective equipment).  Also we never use a self tailing electric winch (remember the stuck on electric winch scenario that severely injured two folks at Jolly Harbor Antigua a few years ago), we only use a self tailed line on the windlass so that a stuck on windlass operation won't cause an un-controlled ascent/descent.

All the best,  

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona   SM 335


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] More electrical goodness.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Gary,

The master breaker will trip with a ground fault. A ground fault will usually trip the pedestal as well, but some marinas set the tolerance high to avoid problems, but that is another story.

I am 80% sure your ground fault might be coming from the water heater. When the heating element gets from 5 to 10 years old, water will penetrate the element, especially when the element gets hot...small cracks and/or pin holes expand and a ground fault happens.

Try turning off the water heater breaker. If your problem stops, you found the problem. Let me know...if it isn't the water heater, and I will give you a few more places to look.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
sent from my tablet

On Jan 31, 2015 3:34 PM, "gary@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Seems to run in streaks.  Being still (I hope I can still play this card) a newbie with the boat, I have been and contiue to be in a pretty steep uphill climb called "the learning curve". Yesterday proved another in the series of opportunities to try to figure something out but this one is eluding me. 

Night before last we took a slip and everything was peachy all night; slept in air conditioned comfort and the batteries got fully charged for the first time in over a month. 

At about noon the boat went dark and quiet and I thought it must've been the pedastal but in fact we'd just tripped the 220 master breaker. It would not stay reset for more than a couple of minutes at most, even with no load.  We did try a second pedastal about 40 feet further away but the same symptom occurred.  

Checking the incoming voltage showed 113 plus 115  for a 228v feed. 

At about 8PM I tried again (this is after about 20 unsuccessful tries) and it stayed on, accepted loads and remained stable all night ... until about 11AM this morning ... then it tripped again and played very finicky all day (at this writing it is still not staying engaged).  


I don't know exactly how to go about troubleshooting this.  Here's what I do know:

Load or no load, no difference in the trip times (10 secs to 20 minutes). 

227v to 232v is very consistent at both the input box in the engine room and at the outlet in the galley when the breaker holds.

 With the master breaker on and the 220Volt house beeaker off there is about 5 to 6 vac showing between the right hand receptacle hole and the ground lug. The left receptacle hole shows 113vac against the ground lug but 0 vac against the right receptacle hole.

I know it only takes 0.03 amps to trip this GFI and of course I'm pretty suspicious that there's something quite wrong with the shore power but can't prove it, because it tripped on the genset too.  


Awaiting evening hours to see if somehow the adjacent business of the dock might indeed be a player. When they shut off the pumps and office lights it will say ~something~ if the breaker holds.


Sure would like to figure this one out before we lose zinc or worse. Also puzzled by the presence of a hot leg on the interior receptacles even with that circuit not energized.  


If anyone's seen this or has an 'aha' suggestion for the new guy I woukd sure appreciate it.


Thanks in advanxe,


Gary W.

SM 209 Adagio

Virgin Gorda , BVI






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

Mark Erdos
 

Eric,



The 110v system works from a Xantrex inverter and the house batteries and
has dedicated 110 outlets throughout the boat.



The 220 system is still there and all of the AC and 220 outlets work form
the genset or shore power (50amp 220v)



The 220v outlets have three options for power: Shore power, genset or
inverter. The Heart Interface inverter (hii) is installed after the relay
switch that selects between the genset or shore power. If there is 220v
power to the hii, it is suppose to pass the power through to the outlets. If
there is no 220 power to the hii, it will select from the house batteries
and give 220 to the outlets . If the hii is turned off, it is still suppose
to pass through 220 if coming from shore power or genset. The problem I am
having is it is stuck in inverter mode. All the power for the 220 outlets
comes from the house batteries regardless if I am plugged into shore power
or not. I like the three option set up and ideally would like to keep it.
But, the comments recently regarding inverter/chargers compromising the
bonding system scares the bejeebers out of me, so I do what I do best ~ ask
a lot of dumb questions. I am still trying hard to learn this system and
every time I think I have it, I get thrown a ringer.



I think what I need is to forget the inverter/charger and replace the hii
with an inverter only with an auto option to switch between 220 from the
shore/genset or battery for the outlets. I'm not sure there is such a thing.
The inverter/charger gives this option but alas, I have come full circle.



If you want to get the 220 volts around the inverter, why don't you just
make an electric transfer switch - This is beyound my expertise.



With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 9:18 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers





Mark,

Did someone rewire your vessel to 110 volt outlets?

where do you get the 110 volts from?



What runs your air conditioners?

Do you use a 50 amp 220 volt plug or a 30 amp 110 volt plug when you plug
in?



If you want to get the 220 volts around the inverter, why don't you just
make an electric transfer switch.

Fair winds,

Eric

----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:46 pm
Subject: RE: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: amelyachtowners@...

Eric,



Yes. I also have this model installed in the same area and a
110v system is
installed throughout the vessel.



The unit I am trying to replace is a 24vdc 220vac 50 htz. It is
located in
the engine room next to the battery charger. All of the 220 vac
outletsexcept the one at the nav station are run by this
inverter. The problem I
have is when at shore power the unit does not PASS THROUGH the
shore power.
It stays in inverter mode all the time. It was made by Heart
Interface (now
Xantrex) who are is no longer making the units.







With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:39 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers





Mark,

this is the one i use 1800 watts mounted to the aft side of the
null station
in the wet locker. It is a short run to the battery box.

null

null 376

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-inverters/prosine.aspx


----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:32 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: amelyachtowners@...

Eric,



I would prefer to just install an inverter. I can't seem to
find
just an
inverter. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places but it
seems they
come with a charger option. I do not need another charger. I
have a
perfectly good Victron Skylla 80 amp charger and 30 amp
charger.
I will
Google Xantrex for their product offerings. Thanks.







With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:04 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers





Mark,

Why don,t you just use a mastervolt charger and a xantrex Inverter.

I think you will find that over time you will have little need
for anything
110 volts. Fair winds,

eric



----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:01 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: amelyachtowners@...

Thanks Eric.



Does anyone know of or have installed a brand/model that is
safe
to use on
an Amel?







With best regards,



Mark



Skipper

Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff



www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers





Some inverter/chargers as per USA ship building code have an
internal> connection between the ships bonding, the ac
earth(ground) and
the DC
negative . If that is the case you must open up the inverter
and
disconnectthe connection so there is no conductivity between
the
ground , the bonding,
and the DC negative.

eric

sm 376.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

On Kristy there was an inverter/charger already
installed...I
guess the prior owner had added it. I replaced it with a
Sterling inverter/charger. The schematic that came with
the
Sterling shows all three "grounding systems" (AC, DC, and
bonding) all connected. Still sorting it out, but I think
that
the bonding system should not be connected.

Does that sound right? The grounding wire should be
connected
to battery negative???
Kent

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:48 AM, 'Mark Erdos'
mcerdos@...
[amelyachtowners] wrote:

Hi Gary,



Thank you for taking the time to respond.



I have read the instructions and did not plan to connect
the
units "DC equipment ground terminal" to the yellow green
Amel
system. Please correct me here if I am mistaken but I
planned
to
not connect anything to this connection on the
inverter/charger.
On the DC side, I planned to only connect the +/- . This
is
the
way my current unit was installed b the previous owner.



I am confident of my ability to install the unit as I will
be
replacing an existing unit and the existing wires etc are
to
spec for the new unit on both the AC and DC side. I was
taken
aback by Olivier's comment about Amel opting not to
install
inverter/chargers and wondered if the inverter/charger
would
compromise the Amel bonding somehow. Still being new to
all
things Amel was concerned about missing something and
seriously
messing something up.







With best regards,



Mark



Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of
amelliahona> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers





Dear Mark:



Regarding a charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my
prior
email if you are confused on these terms, they are
definitely
different). As I understand your question, I think you
have
it
backwards. Since a charger/inverter isn't in contact with
sea
water, both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal. The AC output
side
should be connected via circuit protection including GFCI
(ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging
circuits
go to batteries as per the manufacturers directions. It is
my
opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green
wires)
should NOT be attached to the inverter charger.



Download the installation manual for anything you are
considering installing and make sure you thoroughly
understand
it before buying/installing.



All the best,



Gary Silver

s/v Liahona SM 335









Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

kimberlite@...
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

Mark Erdos
 

Eric,

 

Yes. I also have this model installed in the same area and a 110v system is installed throughout the vessel.

 

The unit I am trying to replace is a 24vdc 220vac 50 htz. It is located in the engine room next to the battery charger. All of the 220 vac outlets except the one at the nav station are run by this inverter. The problem I have is when at shore power the unit does not PASS THROUGH the shore power. It stays in inverter mode all the time. It was made by Heart Interface (now Xantrex) who are is no longer making the units.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:39 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

 

 

Mark,

this is the one i use 1800 watts mounted to the aft side of the null station in the wet locker. It is a short run to the battery box.

null

null 376


----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:32 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: amelyachtowners@...

> Eric,
>
>
>
> I would prefer to just install an inverter. I can't seem to find
> just an
> inverter. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places but it
> seems they
> come with a charger option. I do not need another charger. I
> have a
> perfectly good Victron Skylla 80 amp charger and 30 amp charger.
> I will
> Google Xantrex for their product offerings. Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Super Maramu 2000
>
> Hull #275
>
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:04 PM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> Why don,t you just use a mastervolt charger and a xantrex Inverter.
>
> I think you will find that over time you will have little need
> for anything
> 110 volts. Fair winds,
>
> eric
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
> Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:01 pm
> Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> To: amelyachtowners@...
>
> > Thanks Eric.
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of or have installed a brand/model that is
> safe
> > to use on
> > an Amel?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > Skipper
> >
> > Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff
> >
> >
> >
> > www.creampuff.us
> >
> >
> >
> > From: amelyachtowners@...
> > [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:00 PM
> > To: amelyachtowners@...
> > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Some inverter/chargers as per USA ship building code have an
> internal> connection between the ships bonding, the ac
> earth(ground) and
> > the DC
> > negative . If that is the case you must open up the inverter
> and
> > disconnectthe connection so there is no conductivity between
> the
> > ground , the bonding,
> > and the DC negative.
> >
> > eric
> >
> > sm 376.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
> > Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:33 am
> > Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> > To: "amelyachtowners@..."
> >
> > > On Kristy there was an inverter/charger already
> installed...I
> > > guess the prior owner had added it. I replaced it with a
> > > Sterling inverter/charger. The schematic that came with the
> > > Sterling shows all three "grounding systems" (AC, DC, and
> > > bonding) all connected. Still sorting it out, but I think
> that
> > > the bonding system should not be connected.
> > >
> > > Does that sound right? The grounding wire should be
> connected
> > > to battery negative???
> > > Kent
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:48 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
> > > [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Gary,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for taking the time to respond.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have read the instructions and did not plan to connect the
> > > units "DC equipment ground terminal" to the yellow green
> Amel
> > > system. Please correct me here if I am mistaken but I
> planned
> > to
> > > not connect anything to this connection on the
> > inverter/charger.
> > > On the DC side, I planned to only connect the +/- . This is
> > the
> > > way my current unit was installed b the previous owner.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am confident of my ability to install the unit as I will
> be
> > > replacing an existing unit and the existing wires etc are to
> > > spec for the new unit on both the AC and DC side. I was
> taken
> > > aback by Olivier's comment about Amel opting not to install
> > > inverter/chargers and wondered if the inverter/charger would
> > > compromise the Amel bonding somehow. Still being new to all
> > > things Amel was concerned about missing something and
> > seriously
> > > messing something up.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With best regards,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Super Maramu 2000
> > >
> > > Hull #275
> > >
> > > www.creampuff.us
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: amelyachtowners@...
> > > [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:35 PM
> > > To: amelyachtowners@...
> > > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear Mark:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Regarding a charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my
> > prior
> > > email if you are confused on these terms, they are
> definitely
> > > different). As I understand your question, I think you have
> it
> > > backwards. Since a charger/inverter isn't in contact with
> sea
> > > water, both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
> > > battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal. The AC output side
> > > should be connected via circuit protection including GFCI
> > > (ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging
> > circuits
> > > go to batteries as per the manufacturers directions. It is
> my
> > > opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green wires)
> > > should NOT be attached to the inverter charger.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Download the installation manual for anything you are
> > > considering installing and make sure you thoroughly
> understand
> > > it before buying/installing.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > All the best,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gary Silver
> > >
> > > s/v Liahona SM 335
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

kimberlite@...
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

kimberlite@...
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

Mark Erdos
 

Eric,

 

I would prefer to just install an inverter. I can’t seem to find just an inverter. Perhaps I am not looking in the right places but it seems they come with a charger option. I do not need another charger. I have a perfectly good Victron Skylla 80 amp charger and 30 amp charger. I will Google Xantrex for their product offerings. Thanks.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:04 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

 

 

Mark,

Why don,t you just use a mastervolt charger and a xantrex Inverter.

I think you will find that over time you will have little need for anything 110 volts. Fair winds,

eric



----- Original Message -----
From: "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 8:01 pm
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: amelyachtowners@...

> Thanks Eric.
>
>
>
> Does anyone know of or have installed a brand/model that is safe
> to use on
> an Amel?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Skipper
>
> Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff
>
>
>
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:00 PM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
>
>
>
>
>
> Some inverter/chargers as per USA ship building code have an internal
> connection between the ships bonding, the ac earth(ground) and
> the DC
> negative . If that is the case you must open up the inverter and
> disconnectthe connection so there is no conductivity between the
> ground , the bonding,
> and the DC negative.
>
> eric
>
> sm 376.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
> Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:33 am
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> To: "amelyachtowners@..."
>
> > On Kristy there was an inverter/charger already installed...I
> > guess the prior owner had added it. I replaced it with a
> > Sterling inverter/charger. The schematic that came with the
> > Sterling shows all three "grounding systems" (AC, DC, and
> > bonding) all connected. Still sorting it out, but I think that
> > the bonding system should not be connected.
> >
> > Does that sound right? The grounding wire should be connected
> > to battery negative???
> > Kent
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:48 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
> > [amelyachtowners] wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gary,
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for taking the time to respond.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have read the instructions and did not plan to connect the
> > units "DC equipment ground terminal" to the yellow green Amel
> > system. Please correct me here if I am mistaken but I planned
> to
> > not connect anything to this connection on the
> inverter/charger.
> > On the DC side, I planned to only connect the +/- . This is
> the
> > way my current unit was installed b the previous owner.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am confident of my ability to install the unit as I will be
> > replacing an existing unit and the existing wires etc are to
> > spec for the new unit on both the AC and DC side. I was taken
> > aback by Olivier's comment about Amel opting not to install
> > inverter/chargers and wondered if the inverter/charger would
> > compromise the Amel bonding somehow. Still being new to all
> > things Amel was concerned about missing something and
> seriously
> > messing something up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > With best regards,
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >
> >
> > Super Maramu 2000
> >
> > Hull #275
> >
> > www.creampuff.us
> >
> >
> >
> > From: amelyachtowners@...
> > [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:35 PM
> > To: amelyachtowners@...
> > Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Mark:
> >
> >
> >
> > Regarding a charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my
> prior
> > email if you are confused on these terms, they are definitely
> > different). As I understand your question, I think you have it
> > backwards. Since a charger/inverter isn't in contact with sea
> > water, both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
> > battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal. The AC output side
> > should be connected via circuit protection including GFCI
> > (ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging
> circuits
> > go to batteries as per the manufacturers directions. It is my
> > opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green wires)
> > should NOT be attached to the inverter charger.
> >
> >
> >
> > Download the installation manual for anything you are
> > considering installing and make sure you thoroughly understand
> > it before buying/installing.
> >
> >
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Silver
> >
> > s/v Liahona SM 335
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

kimberlite@...
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

Mark Erdos
 

Thanks Eric.

 

Does anyone know of or have installed a brand/model that is safe to use on an Amel?

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff

 

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2015 6:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

 

 

Some inverter/chargers as per USA ship building code have an internal connection between the ships bonding,  the ac earth(ground) and the DC negative . If that is the case you must open up the inverter and disconnect the connection so there is no conductivity between the ground , the bonding, and the DC negative.

eric

sm 376.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]"
Date: Saturday, January 31, 2015 11:33 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
To: "amelyachtowners@..."

> On Kristy there was an inverter/charger already installed...I
> guess the prior owner had added it. I replaced it with a
> Sterling inverter/charger. The schematic that came with the
> Sterling shows all three "grounding systems" (AC, DC, and
> bonding) all connected. Still sorting it out, but I think that
> the bonding system should not be connected.
>
> Does that sound right? The grounding wire should be connected
> to battery negative???
> Kent
>
>
>
> On Jan 31, 2015, at 10:48 AM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... 
> [amelyachtowners] wrote:
>
> Hi Gary,
>
>
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond.
>
>
>
> I have read the instructions and did not plan to connect the
> units “DC equipment ground terminal” to the yellow green Amel 
> system. Please correct me here if I am mistaken but I planned to
> not connect anything to this connection on the inverter/charger.
> On the DC side, I planned to only connect the +/- . This is the
> way my current unit was installed b the previous owner.
>
>
>
> I am confident of my ability to install the unit as I will be
> replacing an existing unit and the existing wires etc are to
> spec for the new unit on both the AC and DC side. I was taken
> aback by Olivier’s comment about Amel opting not to install
> inverter/chargers and wondered if the inverter/charger would
> compromise the Amel bonding somehow. Still being new to all
> things Amel was concerned about missing something and seriously
> messing something up.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Super Maramu 2000
>
> Hull #275
>
> www.creampuff.us
>
>
>
> From: amelyachtowners@...
> [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of amelliahona
> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2015 4:35 PM
> To: amelyachtowners@...
> Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Mark:
>
>
>
> Regarding a charger/inverter GROUND and GROUNDING (see my prior
> email if you are confused on these terms, they are definitely
> different). As I understand your question, I think you have it
> backwards. Since a charger/inverter isn't in contact with sea
> water, both the grounding and ground lines would go to the
> battery DC negative (-ve or -) terminal. The AC output side
> should be connected via circuit protection including GFCI
> (ground fault circuit interrupter) and the DC charging circuits
> go to batteries as per the manufacturers directions. It is my
> opinion that the BONDING circuit (Amel yellow & green wires)
> should NOT be attached to the inverter charger.
>
>
>
> Download the installation manual for anything you are
> considering installing and make sure you thoroughly understand
> it before buying/installing.
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
>
>
> Gary Silver
>
> s/v Liahona SM 335
>
>
>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

kimberlite@...
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: FW: inverters/chargers

Olivier Beaute
 

Good evening Kent,

on your sterling inverter, if the negative DC is internally connected to the ground (you should measure the resistance between the DC negative terminal and the ground terminal) then don't keep this Equipment.
If the resistance is infinite, then it should be OK, BUT!!, once connected and ON, measure the resistance again. It must be infinite (otherwise,  throw over board!!!).

Olivier


On Saturday, January 31, 2015 5:47 PM, "Andrew Lamb andrew.lamb@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Dear Gary
I am just picking my way through this so that I (hopefully) thoroughly understand this:
The BONDING system is there to provide protection for item # 1.  “ – yes but surely as this represents a large proportion of the boats metalwork particularly those bits in contact with the water then it is relevant to #2 also
 
If you tie your bonding system to the grounding system and an electrical fault occurs the electrical current can take multiple paths including into the surrounding water or into all the metallic fittings that are bonded together, causing a hazardous situation. “ – I don’t understand this - surely in a correctly wired grounding system, with all metal components connected to the grounding system with low resistance connections, the path of least resistance will be via the grounding system and will cause a circuit breaker to trip not via any other route.
Therefore in the case of a ragged extension lead, faulty water heater or electrical tool creating a connection to part of the “bonded” metal work of the boat e.g. in the engine room then if there is a connection to the grounding system then a low resistance path is formed and a circuit breaker will trip – which surely is a safer position than these bonded metallic components potentially being “hot” and undetected?
 
“Bottom line is:  DO NOT TIE THE GROUNDING SYSTEM OF ANY AC CIRCUITS OR DEVICES AND THE BONDING SYSTEMS TOGETHER. “ – this is a bold statement and seems to run against a lot of advice from other sources – you may be correct but I am trying to understand why.
 
Throughout Nigel Calder’s book (Boatowner’s mechanical and electrical manual) he strongly emphasizes the need to connect the AC grounding system to the boats bonding however he does acknowledge “in certain circumstances it (AC grounding to bonding connection) can become a safety hazard. “ and describes the situation where there is a fault in the grounding wire from the boat to the shore and goes on to recommend regular inspection of the shore-power cords rather than disconnecting the bonding. However I guess this does mean there is a lot of responsibility on the port providing a safe electrical supply and also maintaining this correctly.
 
However in our scenario with an isolation transformer, I cannot see (perhaps I am missing something?) the disadvantage of connecting the boats “bonding” to the AC grounding system as there is no affinity for returning current to pass through water and connecting the metal work of the boat will afford extra protection in the case of a fault that connects the boats metalwork to a hot AC wire. It also re-affirms to me the significant safety advantage of an isolation transformer over and above a galvanic isolator as it reduces the need to have trust in the ports electrical systems.
 
 
Andrew
 
 
Ronpische
SM2k 472
Canet en Roussillion, France
 
Hi Andrew:
 
There are two separate issues to discuss here.   
 
1.  Stray current / galvanic current protection of sea water immersed or contacted metallic parts.
2.  Electrical fault protection to prevent electrocution/fire/overload for AC circuits etc.
(the 3rd one, DC fault protection has already been discussed)
 
It may be that you are confusing issues 1 & 2 (easy to do since there is so much erroneous stuff published)  
 
The BONDING system is there to provide protection for item # 1.  It is a low voltage/low current system.
 
The GROUNDING system is there to provide protection for # 2 for AC circuits and is a high voltage/high current system (generally anything over 50 volts is considered high voltage).
 
I perceive that your question is more related to #2.   The answer to #2 is related to both the supply of power to the inverter or inverter charger, and the output of an inverter.   Additionally the answer depends upon whether the boat has an isolation transformer (as yours does) or does not.  
 
First,  consider this;  If the 120 volts or 220 volts supplied to the inverter (or inverter/charger) should fault (e.g. come in contact with the case of the unit), there needs to be a low resistance return path for the electrical current to its source to cause a short circuit that trips or opens the protection circuit breaker (CB) or fuse. 
 
If there isn't that return path, then someone touching the case while touching another grounded item would provide the electrical return path and could be be electrocuted.  A true short circuit should be momentary if the circuit is protected adequately.  It should very rapidly trip the CB or blow the fuse before damage to persons or property occurs.  The grounding wire (aka safety ground, earth, earthing and hereafter referred to as the grounding conductor) wire is normally a non-current carrying conductor.  It only comes into play when the original current carrying lines (either the neutral in 120 volt system or one or the other of the two 220 volt lines) faults and can't provide the return pathway (e.g. 110 or 220 volt inside the appliance comes in contact with the case such as power shorts to the enclosure of a microwave and the original current return pathway is interrupted).   The grounding wire provides the safety backup low resistance pathway to complete a short circuit and open the CB or fuse.  The grounding wire is tied together with the neutral (120 volt system) or the legs of the 220 volt system AT THE ELECTRICAL PRODUCTION SOURCE.   With a isolation transformer the ELECTRICAL PRODUCTION SOURCE is the boat side winding of the transformer. For 110 volt systems with an isolation transformer the neutral and grounding wire are tied together at the transformer.  For a 220 volt system the grounding wire is tied to a winding of the transformer.  Without an isolation transformer the grounding wire is carried directly to shore and hooked to wherever the electrical production source is (perhaps a line transformer).  


In the example above, once the electrical fault occurs, the safety ground provides a no load (low resistance) pathway for current flow and the large current flow trips the breaker or pops the fuse.


If you tie your bonding system to the grounding system and an electrical fault occurs the electrical current can take multiple paths including into the surrounding water or into all the metallic fittings that are bonded together, causing a hazardous situation.  


The output side of an inverter should provide fault protection via GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupters) built into the inverter or provide on any output circuits.  


DC circuit fault protection is provided by DC circuit breakers or fuses between the battery + & - poles.  .  


Bottom line is:  DO NOT TIE THE GROUNDING SYSTEM OF ANY AC CIRCUITS OR DEVICES AND THE BONDING SYSTEMS TOGETHER. 


Hope this helps. 


Sincerely, 


Gary Silver
s/v Liahona
SM # 335 


 
 
 



More electrical goodness.

Gary Wells
 

Seems to run in streaks.  Being still (I hope I can still play this card) a newbie with the boat, I have been and contiue to be in a pretty steep uphill climb called "the learning curve". Yesterday proved another in the series of opportunities to try to figure something out but this one is eluding me. 

Night before last we took a slip and everything was peachy all night; slept in air conditioned comfort and the batteries got fully charged for the first time in over a month. 

At about noon the boat went dark and quiet and I thought it must've been the pedastal but in fact we'd just tripped the 220 master breaker. It would not stay reset for more than a couple of minutes at most, even with no load.  We did try a second pedastal about 40 feet further away but the same symptom occurred.  

Checking the incoming voltage showed 113 plus 115  for a 228v feed. 

At about 8PM I tried again (this is after about 20 unsuccessful tries) and it stayed on, accepted loads and remained stable all night ... until about 11AM this morning ... then it tripped again and played very finicky all day (at this writing it is still not staying engaged).  


I don't know exactly how to go about troubleshooting this.  Here's what I do know:

Load or no load, no difference in the trip times (10 secs to 20 minutes). 

227v to 232v is very consistent at both the input box in the engine room and at the outlet in the galley when the breaker holds.

 With the master breaker on and the 220Volt house beeaker off there is about 5 to 6 vac showing between the right hand receptacle hole and the ground lug. The left receptacle hole shows 113vac against the ground lug but 0 vac against the right receptacle hole.

I know it only takes 0.03 amps to trip this GFI and of course I'm pretty suspicious that there's something quite wrong with the shore power but can't prove it, because it tripped on the genset too.  


Awaiting evening hours to see if somehow the adjacent business of the dock might indeed be a player. When they shut off the pumps and office lights it will say ~something~ if the breaker holds.


Sure would like to figure this one out before we lose zinc or worse. Also puzzled by the presence of a hot leg on the interior receptacles even with that circuit not energized.  


If anyone's seen this or has an 'aha' suggestion for the new guy I woukd sure appreciate it.


Thanks in advanxe,


Gary W.

SM 209 Adagio

Virgin Gorda, BVI