Date   

Re: Galvanic corrosion between the mast and the reinforcement collar on a A54

Bill Kinney
 

Arno,

It is not conductivity that would be the issue here.  Instead, the concern is that carbon is a VERY noble material on the galvanic scale, more so than almost all metals.  So THEORETICALLY there is a potential problem. 

BUT… The carbon fiber is not normally exposed.  This is a composite material, and all of the carbon fiber is sealed in epoxy (or whatever resin is used).  There would normally be no contact between the aluminum mast and the carbon fiber in the collar, which would be required for any galvanic corrosion to occur.  Think about fiberglass.  How often is the glass fiber exposed?

It is POSSIBLE that the resin could be abraded away enough to expose enough carbon to cause a problem but this would be an unusual occurrence.  The results would also be easy to spot.  The paint at the base of the mast would be bubbling and peeling with the underlying metal covered in white oxide.  This would not be a subtle, hidden problem that would sneak up on even a marginally observant boat owner.

My guess is this is NOT a common problem and the broker is extrapolating about stuff he really doesn’t understand. Certainly I have not seen an epidemic of A54 masts collapsing from corrosion at the base. It is something I would watch for, but not worry about.

If a carbon fiber composite part is drilled and screwed into or otherwise machined, then all bets are off… the carbon is exposed and serious care needs to be taken.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Bill Kinney
 

Paul,

Our control system is set to run the generator if the batteries are less than 70% in the morning.  If the batteries are less than 58% the generator starts no matter the hour of the day.

The charge rate vs. SOC. Curve looks something like this:

170 Amps at 75% This is below absorption voltage, and is the maximum Amps I can generate.

115 Amps at 82%
 78 Amps at 87%
 47 Amps at 92%
 14 Amps at 97%

Firefly documentation considers the batteries fully charged when the charge current drops to 2 Amps for an 8 battery, 24 Volt bank. We routinely see this at the end of a “solar charging day”

The specifications from Firefly suggest that maximum charge rate should not exceed 0.5C, or 240Amps for an 8 battery, 24 Volt bank.  I can not generate this much 24 Volt power, so can’t really tell where it begins to taper off from that.  I am not sure that investing in anything over about 130A of charging capacity for a bank of this size is worth it.  The amount of time it would cut off the normal charging time would be small.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Hi Bill,

 

Sounds very encouraging. I am convinced that our power hungry A54 with 8 FireFlys and 1KW solar will require significantly less generator time than it currently needs.

 

A couple of questions relating to your experiences:

 

What is the lowest % charge state you allow your batteries to fall to?

 

What is the maximum charge current they will draw and what does this fall to when they get to, say, 90%?

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown

S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98
tel: +44 (0)7710 466619

skype: pauldowd
web:
https://my.yb.tl/yafohi

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: 28 March 2022 21:18
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Firefly Battery Update.

 

Paul,

Our system is 8 batteries, we have an older SM and that is all that fits in our box.

The biggest improvement we have had in our power system was actually rebuilding one of the chest freezers.  We dramatically improved the insulation compared to the OEM installation.  Today--for the first time ever--we have had our solar panels bring the batteries back to 100% for the second day in a row with no help from the generator.  Pretty good for a 630W solar bank.  It is always cheaper to NOT need it than to find another way to make it!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Galvanic corrosion between the mast and the reinforcement collar on a A54

David Dickman
 

Hi Arno,
    I just purchased my 54 (#100 - Galini) and it is currently at the riggers dock in Martinique.  Other than visual inspection on the external base, did he give any indication what corrosion signs one would observe?

Thanks,
     David Dickman

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 11:59 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
I spoke to a yacht broker today that has a lot of experience with Amel and he said there were A54 with problems with the reinforcement collar that sits around the lower part of the mast. Apparently the carbon-fibre collar is electrically conductive and causes galvanic corrosion on the aluminum of the mast. This can lead to serious problems.
Has anyone heard about this? The story is new to me.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Galvanic corrosion between the mast and the reinforcement collar on a A54

Arno Luijten
 

I spoke to a yacht broker today that has a lot of experience with Amel and he said there were A54 with problems with the reinforcement collar that sits around the lower part of the mast. Apparently the carbon-fibre collar is electrically conductive and causes galvanic corrosion on the aluminum of the mast. This can lead to serious problems.
Has anyone heard about this? The story is new to me.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Backup camera #solution

JB Duler
 

Eloi, I hadn't thought about using a camera only, and no display and with a bluetooth or wifi connection to my cell phone.
Makes perfect sense.
Since those units do not last very long  in a marine environment (days? weeks?) I am looking for a cheap alternative.
If I can install it JUST when I need it (docking, anchoring) that would be perfect.
--
John Bernard "JB" Duler
San Francisco
Meltem # 19, Western Med


Re: Backup camera #solution

Micky Ball
 

Thanks Eloi , This looks brilliant , I can see it being very useful on the end of a metal pole for being able to see all sorts of things , ashore and afloat .

             Regards 

                Micky 
            Castle Douglas 
           SN45  Martinique 


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Bill Kinney
 

Paul,

Our system is 8 batteries, we have an older SM and that is all that fits in our box.

The biggest improvement we have had in our power system was actually rebuilding one of the chest freezers.  We dramatically improved the insulation compared to the OEM installation.  Today--for the first time ever--we have had our solar panels bring the batteries back to 100% for the second day in a row with no help from the generator.  Pretty good for a 630W solar bank.  It is always cheaper to NOT need it than to find another way to make it!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Michael Winand
 

Hi Ian   , I purchased this together gearbox and motor. 
Best regards
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022, 3:19 am Ian Townsend, <smlocalola@...> wrote:
Thanks for pics everyone. Here is the issue I encountered when going to mount my VF44 gearbox (purchased from Drivetech when AMEL was out of stock for several months) and the CIMA motor I bought directly from AMEL. 

The flange size for the VF44 gearbox does not match the CIMA motor that AMEL is now selling. My old motor and gearbox were both the same diameter. VF44 Gearbox OD is 90mm. New Motor OD is 83mm. Motor mounting holes are on 60mm centers which are right atop the inside ring of the gearbox flange. It’s odd. 



Ian & Margaret
Loca Lola II
SM153

On Mar 28, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Brian Gifford <BrianG701@...> wrote:

I bought the VF44 gearboxes direct from Drivetech Online in Florida last year for my Maramu. The gearboxes have been discontinued some years ago but they were more than happy to make me a set. The lead time was long but worth it since I have nice new set of gearboxes to have as spares. I will be putting grease in them before I use them since they have gear coil in them from the manufacturer and I'll modify the mounting holes if needed. I think the only real modification that amel makes is the drain grove near the top bearing on the output. They also drill the mounting flange to accept the motor. Other than that there were no there differences I could see on the gearboxes on my Maramu. 
--
Brian Gifford
Maramu #243
"Jamesby"
Windward/ Leeward Is.


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Hi Bill,

 

That sounds very encouraging. Do I assume correctly that your bank is 8 batteries?

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown

S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98
tel: +44 (0)7710 466619

skype: pauldowd
web:
https://my.yb.tl/yafohi

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Kinney
Sent: 28 March 2022 12:44
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Firefly Battery Update.

 

Alex,

Just to be 100% clear, the 10.5V discharge is for the individual 12V batteries, that translates to a discharge down to 21V in a 24V system.  I know of nothing that would be damaged running at this voltage.  We take no special precautions during one of these discharge procedures, and have no problems.

Now that we are further south, and past the darkest time of the year, we are in a pretty consistent usage pattern.  We run from 100% in the afternoon of Day 1, down to 78% on the morning of Day 2, up to about 92% on the afternoon of Day 2, down to about 69% on the morning of Day 3.  The generator runs for 90 minutes to charge to 93%, and the solar panels bring it up to full charge by the end of the solar day. If it’s very sunny and we are a bit careful, we go an extra day without generator, if it’s cloudy, we’ll probably need the generator on each day. With our new genset, that takes about 11 liters of fuel a week.

We would love to double our solar panel (from 630W) output, but just can not come up with an installation design we like.  Even with the current fuel prices, it is very hard to justify on a cash flow basis.

Overall, our system works very well supplying our power needs.  The key is that it was designed as an integrated system, with the maximum charging rates and discharge rates of the batteries, total daily power needs, routine state of charge usage, and generator and solar capacity all considered.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Bill Kinney
 

Alex,

Just to be 100% clear, the 10.5V discharge is for the individual 12V batteries, that translates to a discharge down to 21V in a 24V system.  I know of nothing that would be damaged running at this voltage.  We take no special precautions during one of these discharge procedures, and have no problems.

Now that we are further south, and past the darkest time of the year, we are in a pretty consistent usage pattern.  We run from 100% in the afternoon of Day 1, down to 78% on the morning of Day 2, up to about 92% on the afternoon of Day 2, down to about 69% on the morning of Day 3.  The generator runs for 90 minutes to charge to 93%, and the solar panels bring it up to full charge by the end of the solar day. If it’s very sunny and we are a bit careful, we go an extra day without generator, if it’s cloudy, we’ll probably need the generator on each day. With our new genset, that takes about 11 liters of fuel a week.

We would love to double our solar panel (from 630W) output, but just can not come up with an installation design we like.  Even with the current fuel prices, it is very hard to justify on a cash flow basis.

Overall, our system works very well supplying our power needs.  The key is that it was designed as an integrated system, with the maximum charging rates and discharge rates of the batteries, total daily power needs, routine state of charge usage, and generator and solar capacity all considered.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Georgetown, Great Exuma Is., Bahamas


Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Ian Townsend
 

Thanks for pics everyone. Here is the issue I encountered when going to mount my VF44 gearbox (purchased from Drivetech when AMEL was out of stock for several months) and the CIMA motor I bought directly from AMEL. 

The flange size for the VF44 gearbox does not match the CIMA motor that AMEL is now selling. My old motor and gearbox were both the same diameter. VF44 Gearbox OD is 90mm. New Motor OD is 83mm. Motor mounting holes are on 60mm centers which are right atop the inside ring of the gearbox flange. It’s odd. 



Ian & Margaret
Loca Lola II
SM153

On Mar 28, 2022, at 11:24 AM, Brian Gifford <BrianG701@...> wrote:

I bought the VF44 gearboxes direct from Drivetech Online in Florida last year for my Maramu. The gearboxes have been discontinued some years ago but they were more than happy to make me a set. The lead time was long but worth it since I have nice new set of gearboxes to have as spares. I will be putting grease in them before I use them since they have gear coil in them from the manufacturer and I'll modify the mounting holes if needed. I think the only real modification that amel makes is the drain grove near the top bearing on the output. They also drill the mounting flange to accept the motor. Other than that there were no there differences I could see on the gearboxes on my Maramu. 
--
Brian Gifford
Maramu #243
"Jamesby"
Windward/ Leeward Is.


Re: Backup camera #solution

Eloi Bamberg
 

I am looking at the moment at a simple solution: camera without cable(power and signal) and no additional screen. That means I use my phone or tablet to visualize. I found the following system:
Caméra de recul sans Fil, Uzone WiFi Caméra Recul Voiture magnétique Inversant la Caméra Night Vision étanche IP68 Caméra de rétroviseur pour remorque Camping Car Vans Smart APP pour iPhone Android : Amazon.fr: High-Tech
You just fix the camera at the arche when you need it.

Regards,

Eloi
SM2K 426 RedLion


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Hi Alex,

 

I am about to take possession of a bank of 8 firefly batteries and assuming you have had yours for a while would be interested in hearing a bit more about your experiences with them.

 

Trust you’re doing well – whereabouts are you these days?

 

Cheers,

Paul

 

Paul Dowd & Sharon Brown

S/Y Ya Fohi, Amel 54 #98
tel: +44 (0)7710 466619

skype: pauldowd
web:
https://my.yb.tl/yafohi

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alexander Ramseyer
Sent: 28 March 2022 11:01
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Firefly Battery Update.

 

Hi to all,
what is your recommendation / best practice to discharge the Firefly batteries to the 10.5V the manufacturer is recommending? I understand, most electrical devices would run into a problem and run very hot on low voltage.
Best, Alex
sv NO STRESS
AMEL54#15


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Brian Gifford
 

I bought the VF44 gearboxes direct from Drivetech Online in Florida last year for my Maramu. The gearboxes have been discontinued some years ago but they were more than happy to make me a set. The lead time was long but worth it since I have nice new set of gearboxes to have as spares. I will be putting grease in them before I use them since they have gear coil in them from the manufacturer and I'll modify the mounting holes if needed. I think the only real modification that amel makes is the drain grove near the top bearing on the output. They also drill the mounting flange to accept the motor. Other than that there were no there differences I could see on the gearboxes on my Maramu. 
--
Brian Gifford
Maramu #243
"Jamesby"
Windward/ Leeward Is.


Re: Firefly Battery Update.

Alexander Ramseyer
 

Hi to all,
what is your recommendation / best practice to discharge the Firefly batteries to the 10.5V the manufacturer is recommending? I understand, most electrical devices would run into a problem and run very hot on low voltage.
Best, Alex
sv NO STRESS
AMEL54#15


Re: Backup camera #solution

Gary Wells
 

I usually had a "live feed* from the Admiral when backing in or maneuvering at the dock.  We used Sena SPH-10 headsets quite successfully.

If I were going to add a camera system I'd look at Furrion Vision S equipment.  Definitely waterproof, accepts 8v-30v DC and the cameras are wireless which is a big winner in my book.

They have two monitor sizes (5.75" and 7") and even have a "kit" with the backup camera and two side monitor cameras.  

I said all this because we actually just bought a trailer RV and I'm researching camera systems right now :) 

Cheers!

Gary W.
Former owner SM 209
Tucson, AZ




Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Michael Winand
 

I purchased this in Australia from the supplier. Had a shop machine new black rings top and bottom for the mast furling  , have not fitted to the boom yet. 
If you need any further information please let me know Michael 

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 11:48 am Ian Townsend, <smlocalola@...> wrote:
Thank you Michael. Did you get that from Amel? It's a VF44. Maud tells me they only ship MVF44.





-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Winand <mickwinand@...>
Date: 2022-03-27 5:41 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bonfiglioli MVF44

Here is our one, 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 7:54 am Ian Townsend, <smlocalola@...> wrote:
Thx Alex. These pics are with a Bonfiglioli VF44. I'm looking for the Amel modified model version known as MVF44.





-------- Original message --------
From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io" <uster=rocketmail.com@groups.io>
Date: 2022-03-27 11:15 a.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bonfiglioli MVF44

On Sunday, March 27, 2022, 10:37:39 AM AST, Ian Townsend <smlocalola@...> wrote:


Would anyone be able to send me or upload photos of the flange of their spare/uninstalled Bonfiglioli MVF44 gearbox?


Ian 
SM153
Loca Lola II


Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Ian Townsend
 

Thank you Michael. Did you get that from Amel? It's a VF44. Maud tells me they only ship MVF44.





-------- Original message --------
From: Michael Winand <mickwinand@...>
Date: 2022-03-27 5:41 p.m. (GMT-05:00)
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bonfiglioli MVF44

Here is our one, 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 7:54 am Ian Townsend, <smlocalola@...> wrote:
Thx Alex. These pics are with a Bonfiglioli VF44. I'm looking for the Amel modified model version known as MVF44.





-------- Original message --------
From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io" <uster=rocketmail.com@groups.io>
Date: 2022-03-27 11:15 a.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bonfiglioli MVF44

On Sunday, March 27, 2022, 10:37:39 AM AST, Ian Townsend <smlocalola@...> wrote:


Would anyone be able to send me or upload photos of the flange of their spare/uninstalled Bonfiglioli MVF44 gearbox?


Ian 
SM153
Loca Lola II


Re: Bonfiglioli MVF44

Michael Winand
 

Here is our one, 
Michael Nebo sm251 

On Mon, 28 Mar 2022, 7:54 am Ian Townsend, <smlocalola@...> wrote:
Thx Alex. These pics are with a Bonfiglioli VF44. I'm looking for the Amel modified model version known as MVF44.





-------- Original message --------
From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar via groups.io" <uster=rocketmail.com@groups.io>
Date: 2022-03-27 11:15 a.m. (GMT-05:00)
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bonfiglioli MVF44

On Sunday, March 27, 2022, 10:37:39 AM AST, Ian Townsend <smlocalola@...> wrote:


Would anyone be able to send me or upload photos of the flange of their spare/uninstalled Bonfiglioli MVF44 gearbox?


Ian 
SM153
Loca Lola II