Date   

Re: Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

ronpische <andrew@...>
 

In my SM there is an earth leakage breaker behind the circuit breakers (otherwise known as Residual current breaker - RCB)- fairly standard equipment - normally has a test button on it - this detects earth leakage but requires that you have a good earth to work. So if your heater is leaking electricity to earth because it is corroded then it might be possible to have this scenario

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:

What's the RCB?
Kent
SM243

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:46 AM, "ronpische" <andrew@...> wrote:

Was it the RCB that was tripping - could it be an earth leak in the heater that only manifests itself when you are connected to the shore earth?

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@> wrote:

But how would that explain that the water heater works fine when powered by the generator ?

Tony Robinson



________________________________
From: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Cc: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem




My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]










Re: Clothes washer issue on SM 391

Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...>
 

John

I changed mine. The original pump was defective. When power was applied to the defective pump rather than spinning it would vibrate. The universal pump installs without any modification...just bolts in. Be careful there are lots of hoses connected.

Bill

--- In amelyachtowners@..., johnabo2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:


Hi Bill,

Thanks for the update, I did have some water drain out when I unpluged the hose. However after draining the water out the washer will still not run the spin cycle. It may be a faulty sensor or it could be that the belt is broken. I think that I may have to take the washer out of the cabinate and have a look inside...

Hopefully it is something obvious.

I am going to the UK next week and will pick up a pump. Did you change yous or just pick it up as a spare?

-- In amelyachtowners@..., "Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe" <yahoogroups@> wrote:

John,

It is possible that the pump is worn out, or the impeller is slipping on the axle of the pump.

You can check to see if the error is a result of not completely pumping out by removing the wood cabinet and checking the manual drain hose which is taped to the front of the washer. Have a bucket handy and remove the plug on this hose. If it is the pump, I found a "universal 230v washer pump" at www.espares.co.uk: Universal Askoll Washing Machine Magnet Motor Pump (ES1087464) for £9.99 inc VAT. I had it shipped to the US and my total cost was less than $30USD. BTW, espares also has knobs for your Eno stove.

Also, check this out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/photos/album/911367118/pic/291529708/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

I hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe SM2k, #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., johnabo2003 <no_reply@> wrote:

Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate cycle and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391


Re: [Amel] Re: Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

karkauai
 

What's the RCB?
Kent
SM243

On Jun 6, 2013, at 9:46 AM, "ronpische" <andrew@...> wrote:

Was it the RCB that was tripping - could it be an earth leak in the heater that only manifests itself when you are connected to the shore earth?

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

But how would that explain that the water heater works fine when powered by the generator ?

Tony Robinson



________________________________
From: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Cc: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem




My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T










Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

Peter Forbes
 

Hmmm!

Peter Forbes
07836 209730

On 6 Jun 2013, at 14:43, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

But how would that explain that the water heater works fine when powered by the generator ?

Tony Robinson

________________________________
From: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Cc: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem



My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

ronpische <andrew@...>
 

Was it the RCB that was tripping - could it be an earth leak in the heater that only manifests itself when you are connected to the shore earth?

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

But how would that explain that the water heater works fine when powered by the generator ?

Tony Robinson



________________________________
From: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Cc: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem



 
My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...>
 

But how would that explain that the water heater works fine when powered by the generator ?

Tony Robinson



________________________________
From: Peter Forbes <ppsforbes@...>
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Cc: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem



 
My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

Peter Forbes
 

My guess would be that your water heater is corroded and on open circuit.quite a common occurrence.

Peter

Peter Forbes
Carango 54035

On 6 Jun 2013, at 13:02, Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...> wrote:

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi All

Thanks to Jean I have put the Thompson washer dryer manuals up on the site
- click here
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/files/Thomson%20Washer-Dryer%20Manuals/

If anyone has an english version of the more comprehensive french manual
please upload it too or send it to me for uploading.

Cheers

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II SM2K #332


On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 11:02 PM, johnabo2003 <no_reply@...>wrote:

**



Looks like my email address was chopped. it should be gmail.com after the
"@" symbol


--- In amelyachtowners@..., johnabo2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:



Hi Jean,

That would be very helpfull, could you please send me both manuals to my
email address. The address is notrevie123@...

Thanks very much

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Jean Boucharlat"
<jean.boucharlat@> wrote:

To : John Abercrombie



I do have, in Pdf format, two owners manuals for your Australe. One is
in
English, and fairly simple, the other in French, much more detailed
and with
many more drawings of the innards of the beast. This being said they
are
owners manuals and not shop manuals. If one or the other, or both, can
be of
help let me know your email address and I'll be glad to send them.



Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of johnabo2003
Sent: jeudi 6 juin 2013 02:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391





Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate
cycle
and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the
rinse
and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up
the
pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on
the
drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle.
If I
switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run
but
again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and
stop
light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual?
I am
sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good
manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
*Colin Streeter*
*0411 016 445*


Re: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391

johnabo2003 <no_reply@...>
 

Looks like my email address was chopped. it should be gmail.com after the "@" symbol

--- In amelyachtowners@..., johnabo2003 <no_reply@...> wrote:



Hi Jean,

That would be very helpfull, could you please send me both manuals to my email address. The address is notrevie123@...

Thanks very much

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Jean Boucharlat" <jean.boucharlat@> wrote:

To : John Abercrombie



I do have, in Pdf format, two owners manuals for your Australe. One is in
English, and fairly simple, the other in French, much more detailed and with
many more drawings of the innards of the beast. This being said they are
owners manuals and not shop manuals. If one or the other, or both, can be of
help let me know your email address and I'll be glad to send them.



Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of johnabo2003
Sent: jeudi 6 juin 2013 02:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391





Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate cycle
and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse
and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the
pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the
drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I
switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but
again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop
light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am
sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good
manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391

johnabo2003 <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Jean,

That would be very helpfull, could you please send me both manuals to my email address. The address is notrevie123@...

Thanks very much

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "Jean Boucharlat" <jean.boucharlat@...> wrote:

To : John Abercrombie



I do have, in Pdf format, two owners manuals for your Australe. One is in
English, and fairly simple, the other in French, much more detailed and with
many more drawings of the innards of the beast. This being said they are
owners manuals and not shop manuals. If one or the other, or both, can be of
help let me know your email address and I'll be glad to send them.



Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of johnabo2003
Sent: jeudi 6 juin 2013 02:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391





Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate cycle
and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse
and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the
pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the
drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I
switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but
again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop
light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am
sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good
manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391







Re: Clothes washer issue on SM 391

johnabo2003 <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Bill,

Thanks for the update, I did have some water drain out when I unpluged the hose. However after draining the water out the washer will still not run the spin cycle. It may be a faulty sensor or it could be that the belt is broken. I think that I may have to take the washer out of the cabinate and have a look inside...

Hopefully it is something obvious.

I am going to the UK next week and will pick up a pump. Did you change yous or just pick it up as a spare?

-- In amelyachtowners@..., "Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe" <yahoogroups@...> wrote:

John,

It is possible that the pump is worn out, or the impeller is slipping on the axle of the pump.

You can check to see if the error is a result of not completely pumping out by removing the wood cabinet and checking the manual drain hose which is taped to the front of the washer. Have a bucket handy and remove the plug on this hose. If it is the pump, I found a "universal 230v washer pump" at www.espares.co.uk: Universal Askoll Washing Machine Magnet Motor Pump (ES1087464) for £9.99 inc VAT. I had it shipped to the US and my total cost was less than $30USD. BTW, espares also has knobs for your Eno stove.

Also, check this out: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/amelyachtowners/photos/album/911367118/pic/291529708/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

I hope this helps.

Bill
BeBe SM2k, #387

--- In amelyachtowners@..., johnabo2003 <no_reply@> wrote:

Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate cycle and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391


Amel 54 shore power/water heater problem

Tony Robinson <tonywrobinson51@...>
 

Hi everyone,

When I run my generator, everything works perfectly - all the electrical circuits, especially the water heater, are fine.

When
I connect to shorepower, each time I switch on the water heater, and
ONLY the water heater, I trip the fuse behind the 240 volt switch
panel. It is as if the water heater needs more power than the shore
connection can supply.

I have changed the cable to the
shorepower. I have bypassed the plug and socket in the hull and the trip fuse in the lazarette, by connecting the shore power (with new
cable) directly to the cable after the fuse in the lazarette.
But.....each time I switch on the water heater, the second trip fuse,
behind the 240V panel, trips.

Remember, everything is fine when the the generator is running and supplying 240V.

I
believe there is a bad connection somewhere between the trip switch in
the lazarette and the water heater, but where should I look ? It seems
as if the the water heater draws too much power for the shore power to
supply, but the shore power is rated at 30 amps and everything has
worked fine for the 6 months before, in the same marina (in Sicily). If the water heater were faulty, then I assume it wouldn't work with the generator, yet it does.

I would be grateful for any suggestions.

Regards, Tony Robinson

Catriona R Amel 54 #102
* T


Re: [Amel] Re: 175 amp alternator on SM-burned up battery bank.

Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
 

Hi thanks For your comments I would take care when replacing batteries given you sail in places where a an AGM batteries are very difficult to replace. They not be a great solution for world travelers. Second you'll need to change the entire regulator system give the charging profile of AGM requirements for very high output.
Single smart charger matched to the battery bank is clearly the way to go in any case.

Regards
Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

On Jun 5, 2013, at 11:52, "seafeverofcuan" <seafeverofcuan@...> wrote:


Hi Eric,
I was hoping that you would post your findings re. you alternator. We are now at the bottom of The Sea of Cortez and hope to get some good technical help in Mazatlan next week. For now we are running on four remaining house batteries. The alternator has been putting out between 28.1 volts to 28.6 volts the remaining batteries have not overheated.
I have the original Dolphin instruction paperwork from 2004. The 30amp charger should boost at 27.7 volts and float at 26.5, the 100amp boost 28.8 and float at 27.2.
However both pieces of paper ( and that is literally what came with the boat) state

"The charger system will revert to boost when the battery system requirements equal 50% of the charger rated output"

My reading of this is that in our case with twelve house batteries giving 630 amps at 24 volts then the 30 amp reverts to boost when the batteries drop below 97% of total capacity.

My 30amp charger now only produces 27.3 volts, I have asked Reya for advice and haven't had a reply as yet.
I suspect the answer lies in a total replacement of both chargers with a smart charger and of course a new set of batteries. From everything that I have been reading, common sense would indicate AGM and completely disconnect them when leaving the boat for long periods.
The entire subject is a black art and I suspect in my case choices will be heavily influenced by what is available in Mexico.
Best regards,
Trevor
Sea Fever

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Sailorman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

I had my alternator checked at a very excellent alternator shop and the
owner showed me what happens as it runs. There is no internal regulation.
However he said as the battery becomes more charged the resistance of the
bank increases and the alternator puts out less and less amps . It has a
constant output of about 28.5 volts. He said the Balmar smart regulator is a
waste of money -and he sells them.





I had no problems with this alternator with my first set of batteries for 4
years. I only changed the batteries after a lightning strike.



My current burned out battery bank must have been caused by the charger. I
will test it when I get my new batteries next week.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite




_____

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 1472 of my spam emails to date.

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Try a free scan!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 175 amp alternator on SM-burned up battery bank.

ronpische <andrew@...>
 

Hi Alan

I will be very interested to hear what you get back from Leece Neville and your own experiences when you start to modify the alternator - I will wait on this before I do anything I think.

Unfortunately there are times that one has no choice but to motor and all the better if we can use the motoring most efficiently also in terms of battery recharging / management.

Cheers

Andrew
Ronpische
SM472

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "alan_leslie_elyes_sm2k" <divanz620@...> wrote:

Hi Andrew,

The reason you need to keep the belts tight is that shortly after start up the alt is putting out max current..these alts are 175A...which at 24 V = 4.2kW = 5.6Hp..that's quite a lot of power !!

I don't know anything about Sterling regs, but looking at their instructions they appear a little simplistic, although verbose at the the same time.
I'm not so sure about their rewiring descriptions for N alts.

The big difference between P alts and N alts is that in N alts there are field diodes (aka diode trio) that supply current to the internal voltage reg.
ALL external regs are P-type so N alts need to be internally rewired to deal with this, which as far as I can work out, involves removing the diode trio and then grounding one side of the rotor (field) and connecting the other side of the rotor (field) to the field connection at the external reg...

BUT I'm awaiting confirmation of that from a techo at Leece Neville, before I start to tear down the alternator.


But in essence, yes we need a proper external 3 stage reg to deal with this, and my only thoughts as to why Amel didn't do this is are
1. They didn't understand it
2. They didn't anticipate Amels motoring for days

Cheers
Alan
Elyse
SM437
--- In amelyachtowners@..., "ronpische" <andrew@> wrote:

I am very interested in this as I fitted one to my last boat - it involved some modifications to the alternator and I had to be more vigilant about keeping the belt very tight, but it ran without fault for the 8 years that we had our last boat. I installed a regulator from sterling power see http://www.sterling-power.com/images/downloads/proreg.pdf . Although the instructions that come with it would not win any design prizes, they were very informative about the setup and also how to modify the alternator also they work for both N-type and P-Type alternator regulators.
I was surprised in some ways that a similar regulator is not fitted to the Amel SM - but had also wondered if there was a good reason why not? Anyway I think I plan to install one sometime soon.

Andrew
Ronpische SM 472

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "alan_leslie_elyes_sm2k" <divanz620@> wrote:

Eric,
There is an internal regulator..there has to be othere wise you wouldn't get a constant voltage.
This is how internally regulated alternators work...they run at (in our case) 28 odd volts all the time...the current falls off as the batts get charged....problem with that is that over a long running time (like we motored 54 hours from Noumea to Port Vila last week) it stays at 28 odd volts and this will lead to the batteries gassing..i.e. boiling off electrolyte...too much of this will eventually kill VRLA batteries (like AGM or sealed calcium etc).

What we need is to modify the alternator to remove the internal regulator...which is not so easy on these Leece Neville / Prestolite alternators as they are N-type, (which means the reg is on the negative side) and wire an external 3 stage reg. External regs are nearly ALL P-Type.
I'm having some discussion now with a tech from Leece Neville about how to do this.

There's nothing wrong with the Balmar external regs...but my choice would be Next Step from AmplePower...they make a number of different types, but the scenario for most (including Balmar) is :

1. Reg off when engine starts so no load on the alternator.
2. After 30 secs, reg gently loads up the alternator until its at either full output, or the max the battery bank will accept.
3. This "full" output current continues until the voltage reaches the absorption voltage (preset) say 28.8 Volts for a 24v bank.
4. the reg slowly backs off the field drive to the alternator to maintain the voltage at the absorption level
5. After a preset time or when current has reached a preset percentage (say 5-10%) of the banks Ah capacity, the reg switches to float...approx. 26.6 V

This ensures that the house batteries are properly charged and prevents gassing.

This is the way the Doplhin chargers work also...so, much better to charge the batts with the genset than the engine in it's standard configuration.

When I get all this figured out with this peculiar N-reg Leece Neville alternator, I'll post the details so everyone can do it.

I don't like the idea of the batteries sitting at 28.8V for days...it's not good for them !

Cheers
Alan
SV ELYSE SM437

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Sailorman <kimberlite@> wrote:

I had my alternator checked at a very excellent alternator shop and the
owner showed me what happens as it runs. There is no internal regulation.
However he said as the battery becomes more charged the resistance of the
bank increases and the alternator puts out less and less amps . It has a
constant output of about 28.5 volts. He said the Balmar smart regulator is a
waste of money -and he sells them.





I had no problems with this alternator with my first set of batteries for 4
years. I only changed the batteries after a lightning strike.



My current burned out battery bank must have been caused by the charger. I
will test it when I get my new batteries next week.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite




_____

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 1472 of my spam emails to date.

Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 175 amp alternator on SM-burned up battery bank.

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Andrew,

The reason you need to keep the belts tight is that shortly after start up the alt is putting out max current..these alts are 175A...which at 24 V = 4.2kW = 5.6Hp..that's quite a lot of power !!

I don't know anything about Sterling regs, but looking at their instructions they appear a little simplistic, although verbose at the the same time.
I'm not so sure about their rewiring descriptions for N alts.

The big difference between P alts and N alts is that in N alts there are field diodes (aka diode trio) that supply current to the internal voltage reg.
ALL external regs are P-type so N alts need to be internally rewired to deal with this, which as far as I can work out, involves removing the diode trio and then grounding one side of the rotor (field) and connecting the other side of the rotor (field) to the field connection at the external reg...

BUT I'm awaiting confirmation of that from a techo at Leece Neville, before I start to tear down the alternator.


But in essence, yes we need a proper external 3 stage reg to deal with this, and my only thoughts as to why Amel didn't do this is are
1. They didn't understand it
2. They didn't anticipate Amels motoring for days

Cheers
Alan
Elyse
SM437

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "ronpische" <andrew@...> wrote:

I am very interested in this as I fitted one to my last boat - it involved some modifications to the alternator and I had to be more vigilant about keeping the belt very tight, but it ran without fault for the 8 years that we had our last boat. I installed a regulator from sterling power see http://www.sterling-power.com/images/downloads/proreg.pdf . Although the instructions that come with it would not win any design prizes, they were very informative about the setup and also how to modify the alternator also they work for both N-type and P-Type alternator regulators.
I was surprised in some ways that a similar regulator is not fitted to the Amel SM - but had also wondered if there was a good reason why not? Anyway I think I plan to install one sometime soon.

Andrew
Ronpische SM 472

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "alan_leslie_elyes_sm2k" <divanz620@> wrote:

Eric,
There is an internal regulator..there has to be othere wise you wouldn't get a constant voltage.
This is how internally regulated alternators work...they run at (in our case) 28 odd volts all the time...the current falls off as the batts get charged....problem with that is that over a long running time (like we motored 54 hours from Noumea to Port Vila last week) it stays at 28 odd volts and this will lead to the batteries gassing..i.e. boiling off electrolyte...too much of this will eventually kill VRLA batteries (like AGM or sealed calcium etc).

What we need is to modify the alternator to remove the internal regulator...which is not so easy on these Leece Neville / Prestolite alternators as they are N-type, (which means the reg is on the negative side) and wire an external 3 stage reg. External regs are nearly ALL P-Type.
I'm having some discussion now with a tech from Leece Neville about how to do this.

There's nothing wrong with the Balmar external regs...but my choice would be Next Step from AmplePower...they make a number of different types, but the scenario for most (including Balmar) is :

1. Reg off when engine starts so no load on the alternator.
2. After 30 secs, reg gently loads up the alternator until its at either full output, or the max the battery bank will accept.
3. This "full" output current continues until the voltage reaches the absorption voltage (preset) say 28.8 Volts for a 24v bank.
4. the reg slowly backs off the field drive to the alternator to maintain the voltage at the absorption level
5. After a preset time or when current has reached a preset percentage (say 5-10%) of the banks Ah capacity, the reg switches to float...approx. 26.6 V

This ensures that the house batteries are properly charged and prevents gassing.

This is the way the Doplhin chargers work also...so, much better to charge the batts with the genset than the engine in it's standard configuration.

When I get all this figured out with this peculiar N-reg Leece Neville alternator, I'll post the details so everyone can do it.

I don't like the idea of the batteries sitting at 28.8V for days...it's not good for them !

Cheers
Alan
SV ELYSE SM437

--- In amelyachtowners@..., Sailorman <kimberlite@> wrote:

I had my alternator checked at a very excellent alternator shop and the
owner showed me what happens as it runs. There is no internal regulation.
However he said as the battery becomes more charged the resistance of the
bank increases and the alternator puts out less and less amps . It has a
constant output of about 28.5 volts. He said the Balmar smart regulator is a
waste of money -and he sells them.





I had no problems with this alternator with my first set of batteries for 4
years. I only changed the batteries after a lightning strike.



My current burned out battery bank must have been caused by the charger. I
will test it when I get my new batteries next week.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite




_____

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 1472 of my spam emails to date.

Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>
Try a free scan!




Re: 175 amp alternator on SM-burned up battery bank.

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Trevor,

At 28.1-28.6V you are probably OK...its when it stays at 28.8V for days that I think there is a problem re gassing the batteries and ultimately battery failure
But WHY your alt puts out 28.1-28.6V is a bit of a mystery when the standard internal reg is set for 28.8

The Dolphin chargers re SMART chargers, I don't know why the 30 and 100 A docs would be different...its really a case of whether or not the charger can keep up with the load imposed on it.

As to why Amel didn't buy an externally regulated alt to put in the Maramus...well...my only thought is that they didn't understand well how batteries need to be charged

BUT, having said that, the system we have is perfectly OK..UNLESS we motor for long periods...like I did..54 hours last week.

I don't agree that it's a "black art"..I think that there is a lot of "bad" information out there.

I have more than 15 years experience with different alternators, chargers, batteries, in different boats and I think I understand the best way to do it...and that is DEFINITELY NOT to have a 28.8V internal reg in the alternator !

Hence I am trying to find a way to externally reg this 175A beast that we have, properly !

Cheers
Alan
Elyse
SM#437

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "seafeverofcuan" <seafeverofcuan@...> wrote:


Hi Eric,
I was hoping that you would post your findings re. you alternator. We are now at the bottom of The Sea of Cortez and hope to get some good technical help in Mazatlan next week. For now we are running on four remaining house batteries. The alternator has been putting out between 28.1 volts to 28.6 volts the remaining batteries have not overheated.
I have the original Dolphin instruction paperwork from 2004. The 30amp charger should boost at 27.7 volts and float at 26.5, the 100amp boost 28.8 and float at 27.2.
However both pieces of paper ( and that is literally what came with the boat) state

"The charger system will revert to boost when the battery system requirements equal 50% of the charger rated output"

My reading of this is that in our case with twelve house batteries giving 630 amps at 24 volts then the 30 amp reverts to boost when the batteries drop below 97% of total capacity.

My 30amp charger now only produces 27.3 volts, I have asked Reya for advice and haven't had a reply as yet.
I suspect the answer lies in a total replacement of both chargers with a smart charger and of course a new set of batteries. From everything that I have been reading, common sense would indicate AGM and completely disconnect them when leaving the boat for long periods.
The entire subject is a black art and I suspect in my case choices will be heavily influenced by what is available in Mexico.
Best regards,
Trevor
Sea Fever





--- In amelyachtowners@..., Sailorman <kimberlite@> wrote:

I had my alternator checked at a very excellent alternator shop and the
owner showed me what happens as it runs. There is no internal regulation.
However he said as the battery becomes more charged the resistance of the
bank increases and the alternator puts out less and less amps . It has a
constant output of about 28.5 volts. He said the Balmar smart regulator is a
waste of money -and he sells them.





I had no problems with this alternator with my first set of batteries for 4
years. I only changed the batteries after a lightning strike.



My current burned out battery bank must have been caused by the charger. I
will test it when I get my new batteries next week.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite




_____

I am using the Free version of SPAMfighter <http://www.spamfighter.com/len>
.
SPAMfighter has removed 1472 of my spam emails to date.

Do you have a slow PC? <http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen>
Try a free scan!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Re: looking for a second hand amel until 46 ft

Joerg Steffen <joerg.steffen@...>
 

Many  thanks for  your good advices !

I promise: I will never build a Santorin or Maramu 46  into on open 40  racer  

:-)


Greetings  Jörg



________________________________
From: Andy <allezaubon@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, June 6, 2013 10:04 AM
Subject: [Amel] Re: looking for a second hand amel until 46 ft



 
Hi Joerg,

I can only second what John has written. We became a Maramu owner last year #75 and the more time we spend on the boat the more we really appreciate the thought and level of detailing went into creating the solutions. Amels are built solidly and made to last.

We are currently upgrading her, with a new Bimini, Solar panels, Charger, Inverter, swim platform,complete reconditioning of the engine ( still the original Perkins), new Autopilot and electronics upgrade are next on the list. so enough to keep busy.

The group was very helpful in point us in the right direction to source replacement parts for the Perkins engine and continues to be a great resource.

The Maramu is an exceptional boat and is in it's element when passage-making.

Naturally the Super Maramu, as the name implies is an improvement of the old basic Maramu, but this also comes at a price.

Wishing you the best of luck with your search. If you take all the normal precautions on purchasing your boat, you will be happy with your choice of an Amel.

Andy

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "jjjk12s" <jjjk12s@...> wrote:

Joerg,

My experience is with an older Maramu. I am very fond of it and like the simlicity for my location where Amels are unusual. I like my boat's standard transmission, fully battened mainsail and sail handling gear (recent Harken). I still admire the Santorin and Super Maramu though. The Sharki is also very nice if you want even cheaper marina fees... Which model you prefer is more a question of your own tastes and requirements.

Try to buy an original as possible Amel .... You say 2-3 years in your private shipyard.... best not to customise it, especially until you are very sure, say after owning the boat for at least a year.

I think generally the ketch Santorin is more popular than the sloop and sells for a bit more but condition would be a more important factor for me.

Compared to another older boat I think there are lot fewer problems. For example, they have a reputation for lack of osmosis, keels and keel bolts are normally no issue. Water leaks are less of a problem than boats with deck mounted chainplates.

The interior woodwork is very good quality mahogany and I think problems with veneer and water damage are unusual. Hull to deck joint is very good. Internal rot caused by water is not a problem but always wise to check areas like the floor of the foredeck lockers and the mast compression areas. The rudders are very strong. I've never heard of any problem with chainplates. The balsa cored deck is properly made - even on my 32 year old boat (visible from the underside of the handrail mounts) the balsa core in the deck is the correct end grain balsa in small blocks so that even if water gets in somewhere it is unlikely to spread.

So to answer your question, I don't think there are "typical problems" to watch out for. The problems are more general ones to older boats: cosmetic issues, crazed perspex, outdated electronics, old engine, possible previous damage from grounding or collision etc. The vinyl you already know about...I don't have the later Amel furling motors, bowthruster or keel transmission but I think spares are easily available and you just need to observe the preventative maintenance.

This site is also of course a great resource for overcoming any obstacles when you own one, escpecially about these Amel specific items. There are some very knowledgable people, some who seem to have been on this site since it started; I hope they don't plan on giving up their sailing soon!

Maybe though you should buy a boat that is not so good so you can get more use of your boatbuilding skills ;)

Good luck
John Maramu #91 Popeye


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Joerg Steffen <joerg.steffen@> wrote:

Hi amelowners


after owning and sailing different boats in the past 30 years i plan do buy a amel as soon as possible.
Because my wife and i don`t plan to cross the pacific a model of 46 ft  will be enough for us.

In the past in build 2 yachts (v.d Stadt 40 and Reinke 43) with my own hands so I have the skills, the place  and the maschines for a major refit.

I look for a boot with a price of 100 - 150 K€, will put it in my private shipyard for 2-3 years and start cruising in the Med  and the atlantik.

Do you know an such an Amel for sale ?

Which type of amel would you recommend ?

Where are typicall problems of old amels (not only the vinyl linning  )

Experiences concerning spare parts, especially for the amel specific parts like "Saildrive", electr. winches etc. ?

Actually I think on a santorin, do you thinks this would be a good choice ?

Many thanks, best regards
Joerg Steffen
Just now onboard  a low quality  2007er  Bavaria 37

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391

Colin - ex SV Island Pearl
 

Hi Jean

I too would like to get a copy of these manuals. Please could you also send
a copy of both to me as well at colin.d.streeter@....
It would be good to get them uploaded to the site for others to access too.

Regards
Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II - SM2K #332


On Thu, Jun 6, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Jean Boucharlat
<jean.boucharlat@...>wrote:

**


To : John Abercrombie

I do have, in Pdf format, two owners manuals for your Australe. One is in
English, and fairly simple, the other in French, much more detailed and
with
many more drawings of the innards of the beast. This being said they are
owners manuals and not shop manuals. If one or the other, or both, can be
of
help let me know your email address and I'll be glad to send them.

Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of johnabo2003
Sent: jeudi 6 juin 2013 02:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391


Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate
cycle
and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse
and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the
pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the
drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I
switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but
again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop
light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am
sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good
manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391






--
*Colin Streeter*
*0411 016 445*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: looking for a second hand amel until 46 ft

Andy Croney
 

Hi Joerg,

I can only second what John has written. We became a Maramu owner last year #75 and the more time we spend on the boat the more we really appreciate the thought and level of detailing went into creating the solutions. Amels are built solidly and made to last.

We are currently upgrading her, with a new Bimini, Solar panels, Charger, Inverter, swim platform,complete reconditioning of the engine ( still the original Perkins), new Autopilot and electronics upgrade are next on the list. so enough to keep busy.

The group was very helpful in point us in the right direction to source replacement parts for the Perkins engine and continues to be a great resource.

The Maramu is an exceptional boat and is in it's element when passage-making.

Naturally the Super Maramu, as the name implies is an improvement of the old basic Maramu, but this also comes at a price.

Wishing you the best of luck with your search. If you take all the normal precautions on purchasing your boat, you will be happy with your choice of an Amel.

Andy

--- In amelyachtowners@..., "jjjk12s" <jjjk12s@...> wrote:

Joerg,

My experience is with an older Maramu. I am very fond of it and like the simlicity for my location where Amels are unusual. I like my boat's standard transmission, fully battened mainsail and sail handling gear (recent Harken). I still admire the Santorin and Super Maramu though. The Sharki is also very nice if you want even cheaper marina fees... Which model you prefer is more a question of your own tastes and requirements.

Try to buy an original as possible Amel .... You say 2-3 years in your private shipyard.... best not to customise it, especially until you are very sure, say after owning the boat for at least a year.

I think generally the ketch Santorin is more popular than the sloop and sells for a bit more but condition would be a more important factor for me.

Compared to another older boat I think there are lot fewer problems. For example, they have a reputation for lack of osmosis, keels and keel bolts are normally no issue. Water leaks are less of a problem than boats with deck mounted chainplates.

The interior woodwork is very good quality mahogany and I think problems with veneer and water damage are unusual. Hull to deck joint is very good. Internal rot caused by water is not a problem but always wise to check areas like the floor of the foredeck lockers and the mast compression areas. The rudders are very strong. I've never heard of any problem with chainplates. The balsa cored deck is properly made - even on my 32 year old boat (visible from the underside of the handrail mounts) the balsa core in the deck is the correct end grain balsa in small blocks so that even if water gets in somewhere it is unlikely to spread.

So to answer your question, I don't think there are "typical problems" to watch out for. The problems are more general ones to older boats: cosmetic issues, crazed perspex, outdated electronics, old engine, possible previous damage from grounding or collision etc. The vinyl you already know about...I don't have the later Amel furling motors, bowthruster or keel transmission but I think spares are easily available and you just need to observe the preventative maintenance.

This site is also of course a great resource for overcoming any obstacles when you own one, escpecially about these Amel specific items. There are some very knowledgable people, some who seem to have been on this site since it started; I hope they don't plan on giving up their sailing soon!

Maybe though you should buy a boat that is not so good so you can get more use of your boatbuilding skills ;)

Good luck
John Maramu #91 Popeye


--- In amelyachtowners@..., Joerg Steffen <joerg.steffen@> wrote:

Hi amelowners


after owning and sailing different boats in the past 30 years i plan do buy a amel as soon as possible.
Because my wife and i don`t plan to cross the pacific a model of 46 ft  will be enough for us.

In the past in build 2 yachts (v.d Stadt 40 and Reinke 43) with my own hands so I have the skills, the place  and the maschines for a major refit.

I look for a boot with a price of 100 - 150 K€, will put it in my private shipyard for 2-3 years and start cruising in the Med  and the atlantik.

Do you know an such an Amel for sale ?

Which type of amel would you recommend ?

Where are typicall problems of old amels (not only the vinyl linning  )

Experiences concerning spare parts, especially for the amel specific parts like "Saildrive", electr. winches etc. ?

Actually I think on a santorin, do you thinks this would be a good choice ?

Many thanks, best regards
Joerg Steffen
Just now onboard  a low quality  2007er  Bavaria 37

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391

Jean Boucharlat
 

To : John Abercrombie



I do have, in Pdf format, two owners manuals for your Australe. One is in
English, and fairly simple, the other in French, much more detailed and with
many more drawings of the innards of the beast. This being said they are
owners manuals and not shop manuals. If one or the other, or both, can be of
help let me know your email address and I'll be glad to send them.



Jean Boucharlat

Formerly SM 232



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of johnabo2003
Sent: jeudi 6 juin 2013 02:29
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Clothes washer issue on SM 391





Our Thomson Australe washer is acting up. It will run thru the agitate cycle
and half of the rinse cycle, it will then stop and flash between the rinse
and stop lights. I have cleaned out the lint filter and also opened up the
pump cover and shop vac'd out the pump area. I can see no blockages on the
drain side and I think I can hear the pump running on the drain cycle. If I
switch the machine straight to the spin cycle I can hear the pump run but
again the drum will not start on the spin cycle and the spin light and stop
light will both flash.

Does anybody have a copy of the Thompson Australe shop service manual? I am
sure this is a minor problem that could easily be diagnosed with a good
manual.

thx
John Abercrombie SM #391