John,



If your boat has not been modified over time, that shaft alternator key is
the same as the engine ignition key or, alternatively, is on the same
retaining ring, so that you cannot use both at the same time.

The reason is to prevent distracted (or silly)owners from engaging the
shaft alternator when running the engine. This would be both unnecessary, as
the engine alternator would already be operating, and potentially damaging
to the shaft alternator which would be turning too fast.

I bought a Maramu in 1981 from Amel, and then an SM in 1998 and still
remembers most of the these little, but useful, tricks that they taught me
when handing out the boat in La Rochelle.



Being currently boat less, and hating it, I envy you and hope you will enjoy
both the boat and the learning process.



Jean Boucharlat



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of jjjk12s
Sent: lundi 25 juillet 2011 12:45
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel] Amel maramu beginner







Thankyou for the welcome and the information, and thankyou Joel for the
offer of more information. If you can find more that would be great. What
you have already remembered is nice to know.

Joel's comment about children and boats is very apt as my kids are 7 and 5
years old. A lived-in boat is not a problem and once renovated she should be
great. The woodwork is all surprisingly good. It is also nice to know it has
been a happy boat with a family.

I am on a steep learning curve as the owner is in USA and the broker is not
familiar with Amel. It took a while of googling to figure out how to check
the fuel level (a dipstick attached under the filler cap I believe) and
there are a few mysteries, for example - I guess that the little keyed panel
with a small LCD display and picture of a prop on the starboard side of the
companionway is for the shaft alternator, but why does it have a key? For
someone who knows Amel well it would be entertaining to see a newbe trying
to figure these things out by themselves. For now I am trailing through old
posts about vinyl liners and am very grateful that this forum is here.

John

--- In amelyachtowners@...
<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , "Joel F Potter"
<jfpottercys@...> wrote:

Hello John and welcome to Amel ownership. I am a yacht broker and Amel's
marketing associate for North America. I sold POPEYE to Bill Klein and his
wife from a nice French husband and wife cruising team on a two year

sailing

sabbatical from shore-side life. They had their two young children, almost
teens I think, with them and they were a very happy and close bunch of
passagemaking sailors having crossed the Atlantic after sailing part of

the

Med and then circumnavigating the entire Caribbean before ending their
adventure as planned here in Florida. I believe their last name was Loick

or

something close to that and that there was one previous owner but I am
operating off memory, a more and more unreliable source. The boat was

French

"Orange Book" national registered originally and through the end or the
Loick's ownership. It was well kept but very much "lived in" and sold

after

a few months on the market. I may be able to retrieve more information for
you as I am away from my office and my files for the next ten days or so

but

I am not sure I have that file any more.



When I sold the boat it was in useable condition (that says a lot, many
boats, Amel's included, are certainly not ready to go offshore) and showed
signs of consistent care and proper maintenance. It had never been holed

or

flooded and showed no structural damage. Housekeeping was average, the
interior was a bit beat up as is often the case when children are aboard.

It

was a "happy boat".



All the best,

Joel F. Potter





Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address: 401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301

Phone: (954) 462-5869 Cell: (954) 812-2485

Email: <mailto:jfpottercys@...> jfpottercys@...

<http://www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys> www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys



From: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

[mailto:amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of jjjk12s

Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 6:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...

<mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>

Subject: [Amel] Amel maramu beginner





Hello all,

I have just signed a contract on Maramu hull 91 "Popeye". She is lying in
Brisbane and as soon as the sale is finalised I will deliver her to her

new

home in Port Douglas in far north Queensland.

The previous owner, Richard Molony, apparently sailed non-stop

singlehanded

from Panama, an impressive achievement. He has left the boat well but no
shortage of jobs to restore her, hopefully keeping as original as

possible.

Headlinings, repainting and perspex are all near the top of the list.
Hopefully, wise and knowledgable members here will be able to provide some
advice down the line...

In the meantime if anyone has any knowledge of Popeye's history I would

love

to hear it. After looking here I can see a previous owner was Bill Klein

in

New York. The boat may have sailed from France to USA in about 2000.

John

John, You are correct that switch engages the shaft alternator and the key
should be on a ring along with the ignition key. Good luck ,Pat

Thankyou for the welcome and the information, and thankyou Joel for the offer of more information. If you can find more that would be great. What you have already remembered is nice to know.

Joel's comment about children and boats is very apt as my kids are 7 and 5 years old. A lived-in boat is not a problem and once renovated she should be great. The woodwork is all surprisingly good. It is also nice to know it has been a happy boat with a family.

I am on a steep learning curve as the owner is in USA and the broker is not familiar with Amel. It took a while of googling to figure out how to check the fuel level (a dipstick attached under the filler cap I believe) and there are a few mysteries, for example - I guess that the little keyed panel with a small LCD display and picture of a prop on the starboard side of the companionway is for the shaft alternator, but why does it have a key? For someone who knows Amel well it would be entertaining to see a newbe trying to figure these things out by themselves. For now I am trailing through old posts about vinyl liners and am very grateful that this forum is here.

John

As many of you are aware, one of the potential part failures on the Thomson washer is the pump which empties the machine. When it fails, your washer will stop in either the Rinse or Spin cycle with a tub full of water. A emergency water drain hose is taped to the front of the washer, untape it and drain into a bucket(s). You can use a shop vac to remove the remainder of the water by opening the pump clean-out located on the front of the washing machine, lower right facing.

We found a 230volt/50htz replacement pump at Espares in the UK (http://www.espares.co.uk/friend/K2QBPH4G). eSpares Ltd, 13-14 Chelsea Wharf, 15 Lots Road, Chelsea SW10 0QJ. customerservices"at"espares.co.uk or 0844 375 3 375. They will credit me back £5 if you use "Friend Code is K2QBPH4G" Don't need to do this, just thought I would make it clear to all of you...apparently this is the way they market.

The pump is a "Universal Askoll Washing Machine Magnet Motor Pump (ES1087464)" at £9.99 inc VAT. It is not an exact replacement, but bolts up to the pump housing with no modifications and no problems...BTW, washer wire color code is Grey for +L and White for -N. Remove the right side facing side panel for access. To remove the pump, remove the two wires, remove the four hoses and the 1 mounting screw. Make note of orientation of the pump housing and you will find that the pump can mount to the pump housing in various orientations so pick the orientation that fits back into the machine.

I had it shipped to the US because someone was flying out to meet us in the Greek Islands. My total delivered to Houston cost was 27.8O USD via PayPal.

I hope this helps someone out there.

Best,

Bill
BeBe, SM2k, #387
Currently Greek Islands

Thanks, Gary. I will let you know how we get on.
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302

Hi John,
My husband and I purchased a Maramu" Finesse II" Hull No 159 in Sydney 2008 and sailed her home to Tasmania and had a great time on our first adventure. We have had some great holidays sailing around Tasmania including our "wild" west coast and have been very pleased with the way she handled the rough weather.
We have done a lot of work on her and as you can imagine there is much more to do including tackling the head lining.
We like you would love to know the history of our "Finesse II" and would appreciate it if anyone can fill us in.
Congratulations and I am sure you will have a great time sailing those warm waters with your "Popeye".
Cheers
Bev and John
"Finesse II"
Maramu 159

Hi Ian and Judy:

I think the idea of a "bracket" or doubler that has flanges sounds good. I always assumed that the rubber grommets that were in the bolt holes on the main boom were to provide for protection against dissimilar metal corrosion and to provide some shock absorption as the gearbox torqued against the bolts. It would also allow for some slight mis-alignment of the geabox relative to the shaft etc. I would try to continue to incorporate some sort of rubber isolators and of course if you use steel to account for dissimilar metal issues relative to the aluminum gearbox housing.

A reminder to all, take the shaft out of the outhaul every six months and clean it and lube it or otherwise you will have a seized outhaul shaft (the vertical shaft). It is one bolt, at the bottom to remove the cap and is generally easily removable if done every six months. It gets stuck just due to accretions and usually NOT due to corrosion.

Best of luck

Gary Silver
s/v Liahona on the hard in Grenada SIMSCO
Amel SM Hull # 335

John,

Congratulations. I'm sure you'll love the boat. Many of the Maramu owners only sell when they decide to move up to a Super Maramu. It's a wonderful boat.

You mentioned the headliner which is something that needs to be done in every Maramu. My fellow Californian Maramu owner Eric Lindholm did a fantastic job on his headliner. You may want to contact him as well as some of the other owners that have gone through that onerous project.

Have a great trip to your home port.

Cheers,
Dave Benjamin
S/V Exit Strategy
Maramu #29

Ian,

I am not on board right now , however do you think you can make two thin
metal plates to put on either side of the oval holes?

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite





_____

From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of Ian & Judy Jenkins
Sent: Sunday, July 24, 2011 4:44 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Main Outhaul on SM






Hi Y'all, This has been a well documented area but there is one further
point worth making. I changed my outhaul gearbox in Guadeloupe two years ago
when it was 9 years old and we had sailed about 40,000 miles. It worked OK
but was getting noisy.Unfortunately when the gearbox was renewed the
original grommets were reused. The outhaul has worked happily since, another
5,000 miles or so, but the other day I noticed that the motor was moving
from side to side under use. I hadn't noticed this before, presumably
because when unfurling or furling the main you are looking at the sail and
not the motor. On inspection I found that three of the bolts attaching the
gearbox to the bracket on the boom had sheared. By itself that is a pain as
it means driving the driveshaft out of the gearbox to release the gearbox so
that you can tap out the broken bolts and replace them.Gary Silver's photos
are wonderful for showing you what to expect, as is Kimberlite's photo
showing the necessary use of a sledge hammer! However, that is only part of
the problem . After 11 years the bolts have worn oval holes in the bracket
so that even if I replace the bolts with fresh grommets the scene is
immediately set for renewed wear. One solution is to cut off the lower part
of the bracket and weld a fresh one on. Mid-season, in a Spanish seaside
town, with the inevitable guests a few days away, this is not easily done.
What does occur to me is to improve on the Amel design by adding a fresh
plate ( with fresh bolt holes) to the inside of the lower part of the
bracket which would also have sides that drop down a few millimeters ,port
and starboard, to sit against the outside of the gearbox so that the gearbox
is held firmly in place . This would avoid the grommets and the bolts having
to withstand the sideways pressure exerted each time the outhaul is used.
Two points1. Has anyone else had the problem of oval holes in the bracket
and what solution did they adopt?
2. I encourage everyone to do what we failed to do, namely to check
regularly on the tightness of the bolts holding the gearbox onto the bracket
and also to look at the condition of the grommets.
Fair winds, Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, San Carles de la Rapita, Spain

Does anyone have any information with regard to the Tecpro 24volt 50amp battery charger, I notice with ours the input amps seem to fluctuate between three or four numbers, not a steady input amperage. We are using Panasonic 110 Lead Acid AGM batteries, all 12mths old.

Best Regards
Barry and Robyn
Tradewinds III SM# 171

Congrats, John.  Welcome aboard.
Kent
SM243
Kristy

From: jjjk12s <jjjk12s@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 6:15 PM
Subject: [Amel] Amel maramu beginner


 
Hello all,

I have just signed a contract on Maramu hull 91 "Popeye". She is lying in Brisbane and as soon as the sale is finalised I will deliver her to her new home in Port Douglas in far north Queensland.

The previous owner, Richard Molony, apparently sailed non-stop singlehanded from Panama, an impressive achievement. He has left the boat well but no shortage of jobs to restore her, hopefully keeping as original as possible. Headlinings, repainting and perspex are all near the top of the list. Hopefully, wise and knowledgable members here will be able to provide some advice down the line...

In the meantime if anyone has any knowledge of Popeye's history I would love to hear it. After looking here I can see a previous owner was Bill Klein in New York. The boat may have sailed from France to USA in about 2000.

John

Hi Ian and Judy, as I have said before, to remove the centre shaft if it is frozen in place the application of heat from an oxyacetylene torch (by a suitably experienced operator) can do a lot less damage than large hammers.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
Mangonui
New Zealand

From: Ian & Judy Jenkins <ianjudyjenkins@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Monday, 25 July 2011 8:43 AM
Subject: [Amel] Main Outhaul on SM


 

Hi Y'all, This has been a well documented area but there is one further point worth making. I changed my outhaul gearbox in Guadeloupe two years ago when it was 9 years old and we had sailed about 40,000 miles. It worked OK but was getting noisy.Unfortunately when the gearbox was renewed the original grommets were reused. The outhaul has worked happily since, another 5,000 miles or so, but the other day I noticed that the motor was moving from side to side under use. I hadn't noticed this before, presumably because when unfurling or furling the main you are looking at the sail and not the motor. On inspection I found that three of the bolts attaching the gearbox to the bracket on the boom had sheared. By itself that is a pain as it means driving the driveshaft out of the gearbox to release the gearbox so that you can tap out the broken bolts and replace them.Gary Silver's photos are wonderful for showing you what to expect, as is Kimberlite's photo
showing the necessary use of a sledge hammer! However, that is only part of the problem . After 11 years the bolts have worn oval holes in the bracket so that even if I replace the bolts with fresh grommets the scene is immediately set for renewed wear. One solution is to cut off the lower part of the bracket and weld a fresh one on. Mid-season, in a Spanish seaside town, with the inevitable guests a few days away, this is not easily done. What does occur to me is to improve on the Amel design by adding a fresh plate ( with fresh bolt holes) to the inside of the lower part of the bracket which would also have sides that drop down a few millimeters ,port and starboard, to sit against the outside of the gearbox so that the gearbox is held firmly in place . This would avoid the grommets and the bolts having to withstand the sideways pressure exerted each time the outhaul is used.
Two points1. Has anyone else had the problem of oval holes in the bracket and what solution did they adopt?
2. I encourage everyone to do what we failed to do, namely to check regularly on the tightness of the bolts holding the gearbox onto the bracket and also to look at the condition of the grommets.
Fair winds, Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, San Carles de la Rapita, Spain


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


__.._,_.___
Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1)
Recent Activity: * New Members 1 * New Photos 2
Visit Your Group

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use
.

Hi Y'all, This has been a well documented area but there is one further point worth making. I changed my outhaul gearbox in Guadeloupe two years ago when it was 9 years old and we had sailed about 40,000 miles. It worked OK but was getting noisy.Unfortunately when the gearbox was renewed the original grommets were reused. The outhaul has worked happily since, another 5,000 miles or so, but the other day I noticed that the motor was moving from side to side under use. I hadn't noticed this before, presumably because when unfurling or furling the main you are looking at the sail and not the motor. On inspection I found that three of the bolts attaching the gearbox to the bracket on the boom had sheared. By itself that is a pain as it means driving the driveshaft out of the gearbox to release the gearbox so that you can tap out the broken bolts and replace them.Gary Silver's photos are wonderful for showing you what to expect, as is Kimberlite's photo showing the necessary use of a sledge hammer! However, that is only part of the problem . After 11 years the bolts have worn oval holes in the bracket so that even if I replace the bolts with fresh grommets the scene is immediately set for renewed wear. One solution is to cut off the lower part of the bracket and weld a fresh one on. Mid-season, in a Spanish seaside town, with the inevitable guests a few days away, this is not easily done. What does occur to me is to improve on the Amel design by adding a fresh plate ( with fresh bolt holes) to the inside of the lower part of the bracket which would also have sides that drop down a few millimeters ,port and starboard, to sit against the outside of the gearbox so that the gearbox is held firmly in place . This would avoid the grommets and the bolts having to withstand the sideways pressure exerted each time the outhaul is used.
Two points1. Has anyone else had the problem of oval holes in the bracket and what solution did they adopt?
2. I encourage everyone to do what we failed to do, namely to check regularly on the tightness of the bolts holding the gearbox onto the bracket and also to look at the condition of the grommets.
Fair winds, Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, San Carles de la Rapita, Spain

Hello John and welcome to Amel ownership. I am a yacht broker and Amel's
marketing associate for North America. I sold POPEYE to Bill Klein and his
wife from a nice French husband and wife cruising team on a two year sailing
sabbatical from shore-side life. They had their two young children, almost
teens I think, with them and they were a very happy and close bunch of
passagemaking sailors having crossed the Atlantic after sailing part of the
Med and then circumnavigating the entire Caribbean before ending their
adventure as planned here in Florida. I believe their last name was Loick or
something close to that and that there was one previous owner but I am
operating off memory, a more and more unreliable source. The boat was French
"Orange Book" national registered originally and through the end or the
Loick's ownership. It was well kept but very much "lived in" and sold after
a few months on the market. I may be able to retrieve more information for
you as I am away from my office and my files for the next ten days or so but
I am not sure I have that file any more.



When I sold the boat it was in useable condition (that says a lot, many
boats, Amel's included, are certainly not ready to go offshore) and showed
signs of consistent care and proper maintenance. It had never been holed or
flooded and showed no structural damage. Housekeeping was average, the
interior was a bit beat up as is often the case when children are aboard. It
was a "happy boat".



All the best,

Joel F. Potter





Joel F. Potter - Cruising Yacht Specialist, LLC

Amel's Sole Associate for the Americas

Mailing Address: 401 East Las Olas Boulevard #130-126

Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301

Phone: (954) 462-5869 Cell: (954) 812-2485

Email: <mailto:jfpottercys@...> jfpottercys@...

<http://www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys> www.yachtworld.com/jfpottercys



From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of jjjk12s
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 6:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel] Amel maramu beginner





Hello all,

I have just signed a contract on Maramu hull 91 "Popeye". She is lying in
Brisbane and as soon as the sale is finalised I will deliver her to her new
home in Port Douglas in far north Queensland.

The previous owner, Richard Molony, apparently sailed non-stop singlehanded
from Panama, an impressive achievement. He has left the boat well but no
shortage of jobs to restore her, hopefully keeping as original as possible.
Headlinings, repainting and perspex are all near the top of the list.
Hopefully, wise and knowledgable members here will be able to provide some
advice down the line...

In the meantime if anyone has any knowledge of Popeye's history I would love
to hear it. After looking here I can see a previous owner was Bill Klein in
New York. The boat may have sailed from France to USA in about 2000.

John

Hello all,

I have just signed a contract on Maramu hull 91 "Popeye". She is lying in Brisbane and as soon as the sale is finalised I will deliver her to her new home in Port Douglas in far north Queensland.

The previous owner, Richard Molony, apparently sailed non-stop singlehanded from Panama, an impressive achievement. He has left the boat well but no shortage of jobs to restore her, hopefully keeping as original as possible. Headlinings, repainting and perspex are all near the top of the list. Hopefully, wise and knowledgable members here will be able to provide some advice down the line...

In the meantime if anyone has any knowledge of Popeye's history I would love to hear it. After looking here I can see a previous owner was Bill Klein in New York. The boat may have sailed from France to USA in about 2000.

John

He he Dave - YES WELL :-(

Talking about MY REAL DRAMA IF you use Gmail you could be in for some big
problems - I just lost about 30 unread mails. I was a bit shocked to
see *"woooo
hoo you have no unread emails in your mail box"* when i went to my open
Gmail window in the middle of the day - i had 30 or more ten minutes before
I saw that message - i was surfing the net on another open window.

Now i have been online for what must be 25 years now even using IBM
mainframe email systems and i have never lost a mail or been unable to have
one recovered. BUT Gmail really screwed things up the other day. My PC is
100% secure double/treble checked it and it was a Gmail problem. When i
looked harder at my Gmail system i discovered my spam folder was full of
valid mails as well. I tried everything i could think of but failed to find
my unread emails so i resorted to the online help and when that failed then
the Gmail help team.

After a day or two here is the reply they sent me.

Hello,

Thank you for requesting to recover mail that has recently been deleted
from your account. After investigating, we discovered that we will not be
able to successfully recover messages in this case. We apologize for this
inconvenience. If you have not already done so, we suggest that you take
the steps outlined in our Security Checklist.

Gmail Security Checklist:
http://mail.google.com/support/bin/static.py?page=checklist.cs&tab=29488

We unfortunately will not be able to respond to any further emails on this
chain or to duplicate requests for message recovery.

Sincerely,

The Google Team

Not even addressed to me as an individual. And yes i had carried out all
the steps in the security check list to check that no one had accessed my
email account and checked traffic from my PC around the time that the mails
went AWOL - as was explained to them in my request for help - so it would
appear they did not really read my message to them and just sent off a bog
standard reply. NOT that i can do anything further as the sign off so
clearly points out - dont bother us any more with this!!!!

When checking account access permission i noticed that a few web sites like
facebook and other social networking sites get automatic access to your
Gmail account by default!!!! :-(

OWELL


I liked Gmail as it presented all my mails in the one place - luckily 80%
of my mails are harvested from other email accounts using POP and i have
Gmail set to leave the original mails with these addresses - so some of the
missing stuff was recoverable BUT the mails like here that use my Gmail
address as the primary address are gone into a Big Gmail Black Hole and
Gmail dont seem to care a hoot :-(

So using Gmail as your primary master email address would appear to be
fraught with danger as Gmail is not 100% reliable and it gives sites access
to your Gmail account without your knowledge - sadly and most seriously the
support in a crisis appears to be non existent.

I will of course be taking my own steps to safeguard my emails in the future
- if you use Gmail for anything critical i would suggest you should too.

regards

David





On 23 July 2011 21:44, Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@...> wrote:

**


Yes and he writes with such drama. That's the first use of the term "dreary
pablum" I've seen on a sailing forum. Reads like a quasi-intellectual rant
to me.

I've asked someone who is in the wind generator business for some further
perspective and will share it if he responds to my query.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., David Mackintosh
<sv.highland.fling@...> wrote:

OHHHH a moderator in waiting AND one with a crystal ball to who speaks

for

'most of us' on the group

OH MY :-(

David

On 22 July 2011 19:45, thomas.kleman@... <thomas.kleman@...>wrote:

**


All- while I enjoy and learn from most of the threads, of late there

has

been quite a bit of dreary pablum and self aggrandizement by people who
must
have missed the "amelyachtowners" part of the URL. Like most people, I
belong to several groups outside of this one for general sailing info.

This

group is valuable to me (and dare I speak for most of us) because it is
AMEL
specific. Someone's flying resume would seem to fail the relevance

test. As

the site supports direct person to person email for these enthralling
exchanges of credentials, perhaps we can keep the site clear of them in

the

future.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


-----Original message-----
From: David Mackintosh <sv.highland.fling@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 13:39:13 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Maramu prop shaft alternator

Well what can i say,

My flying starts with PA28's and included the PA 30 with non contra
rotating
props and the PA 39 with contra rotating props and goes all the way up

to

the L1011 B757 and even the LHD Death Cruiser he he.

The P factor will i suspect actually de power the wind generator sadly

i

dont have the time or the motivation to actually sit down and calculate
this
- perhaps introducing the P factor into this discussion was not helpful

-

it
is as you probably fully understand one of 'the results' which is why i

did

include it.

All i know is real time actual results. When i was sailing with many of

my

friends in the Caribbean they tied off their W/G's when out sailing in
20+knots of wind as they complained of 'problems' in high winds and big
seas. Now they were all on dedicated W/G poles or Radar Arches. Having

the

W/G on the mast well you may not notice 'issues' as the mast is

supported

to
handle sail loadings.

But we have all played with a gyroscope i am sure and we know how hard

it

is
to move it when it is spinning - put that gyroscope/W/G on the end of a

10

foot pole or even a 30 foot mast and well you are amplifying that

effect.

Now put that pole/mast on a sailboat that is moving in a variety of
directions at unpredictibale speeds and rates of change and you are
introducing some serious loads to your W/G mount(s).

I can see a use for wind generators at anchor in anchorages with

10knots

of wind and for sure they work when the sun does not shine - like i
explained i am conflicted as to the CBA vis a vis burning diesel and
purchasing and installing W/G and Solar. I should add i dont have an

Amel

nor a generator on board and as we have added more and more electrical
loads
we need to seriously look at some means of generating more electricity
'MOSTLY' when we are sailing as the autopilot and all the new

electronics

and new 12V freezer (soon new 12V Fridge) and other loads mean that on
passage (only inter island stuff 8 to 16 hours at most) we need to

either

run the engine (do some gentle motor sailing) or selectively switch on

and

off various bit of kit as well as hand steer for a while something we

enjoy

in the heavy weather but not for 8 or more hours. We have a Raymarine

E120

plotter and that is too heavy on power consumption for use all the way
through any inter island passage but we have a Raymarine Raynav 320

which

uses much less power so that gets used for power saving navigation. As

they

both talk to each other we can share waypoints etc. Obviously the E120

does

much more for us but ATM its power consumption is unsustainable for

inter

island passages. I would love a PSA and i am planning to put one on our
boat
ASAP my preference would be to use a PMA as a PSA but cant see an easy

way

of stopping that charging - sounds like a job for a lead screw to

adjust

belt tensioning or diverting that output to a 12V element in the hot

water

tank IF or once the batteries are fully charged. Obviously the normal
car/boat style alternator has advantages in a PSA application as you

can

simply switch it on and off BUT the down side of that is that to power

the

coils and excite the alternator you are going to use 1 amp.

To get back to non contra rotating props :-) i am always amazed and it

is

fun to watch and to see the difference in reaction and rotation of twin
W/G's on other boats.

regards

David

On 22 July 2011 02:07, Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@...> wrote:

**


David,

In my flying career I spent close to 5000 hours in large turbo-prop
aircraft so gyroscopic effects are well known to me. (Not all twin

engine

aircraft have counter-rotating props). In any case, perhaps you can

explain

how "P-factor" would impair a wind generator that is free to swivel.

The

force vector is going to simply cause it to rotate one way or the

other,

isn't it? Given the movement of the boat, there's not going to be a

steady

force in any one direction.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., David Mackintosh
<sv.highland.fling@> wrote:

I think you will find a wind generator is not really usable when

sailing

in

decent winds and seas as gyroscopic effects and precession all

start to

have

a serious effect.

You are correct of course water being denser than air it is much

easier

to

extract power from a water driven propeller. BUT i think you miss

the

point

- lets say a PSA producing 10/15 Amp takes 1.5 HP to drive That HP

has

to

come from somewhere - the sails :-) To get your say what 22 metric

ton

Amel up to hull speed is going to take say 80 HP so the losses

assuming

they can be measured in a real live real time situation are going

to be

insignificant really

Plus if you have 150/200 HP from your sails you have an excess of

power

and

since your Amel cant get up and plane - you have oodles of spare

free

HP

to

drive your PSA. Any time you have more power from your sails than

that

needed to drive the boat at hull speed..there will be no actual

loss of

performance when using the PSA.

Actual real time real life reports on the PAS performance say the

losses

are

insignificant - not really measurable.

Now lets look at the trasmission designed to drive this 22MT boat

with

say

70 SHP..............do you really think you can damage that

transmission

in

any way by powering a 1.5 HP PSA with it? I think NOT!!!

IF anyone wants to dump their PSA then please contact me i would

love

to

have it :-)

regards

David

On 20 July 2011 00:13, Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@> wrote:

**


I'm a bit confused about the comparison in losses between the PSA

and

a

wind generator. Water is far denser than air. The prop becomes a

speed

brake

of sort. I'm not a physicist but I'd wager that amp for amp the

performance

loss with a wind generator is negligible compared to a PSA.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes and he writes with such drama. That's the first use of the term "dreary pablum" I've seen on a sailing forum. Reads like a quasi-intellectual rant to me.

I've asked someone who is in the wind generator business for some further perspective and will share it if he responds to my query.

On my Santorin 1993 I normally use the propeller generator when sailing but to my experience – and practical measurements – it will cut ½ to 1 knot of the speed unless there is plenty of wind. So sailing in modest wind I have chosen to just let the propeller turn free as setting the gear in “back” in order to stop the propeller turning will cut 1/3 to ½ knot of speed.



So my conclusion is that the propeller generator generates significant drag but is a fantastic opportunity to generate all the power the boat needs for both running autopilot, fridge, lights and all navigation equipment – and still have excess power to charge the batteries.



Best regards

Lars

Santorin Salvagny – presently Gibraltar / Alcaidesa



Fra: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] På vegne af Richard03801
Sendt: 21. juli 2011 14:16
Til: amelyachtowners@...
Emne: Re: [Amel] Re: Maramu prop shaft alternator





Hi Kent we have sailed 1000's of miles with a wind Gen atop the mizzen mast without issues. At 30 mrs it self feathers on we go.

Regards. FOR SAIL IN ANNAPOLIS

Richard Piller

Cell 603 767 5330

"brokerage beyond your expectations"

On Jul 21, 2011, at 1:31, "Dave_Benjamin" <dave_benjamin@... <mailto:dave_benjamin%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

Kent,

As a former airline pilot I can attest to the fact that there will be more drag from a turning prop that is connected to a PSA than what you will have from a fixed prop that is not moving.

--- In amelyachtowners@... <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> , Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:

Do those of you with wind generators use them when at sea? Do you see any problems with performance as the boat moves with the seas? I'm not experienced with either wind or PSA generators, but with wind it seems to me the wind is driving the wind generator essentially independently of what it's doing to the sails, unless the wind is coming from astern and interrupting the flow of air on the sails. If you're dragging a fixed prop it wouldn't seem to make much of a difference using a PSA, but if you're using a feathering prop as many are, the turning prop would seem to me to create additional drag.

I'm guessing that just the additional turning of the gears for hours on end would, at some point, create additional wear on them. How much, significant...I wouldn't hazard a guess.

When I do finally get retired and head to the S. Pac, I'll consider both, and solar as well.

This has been a great discussion...thanks to all.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We have had good luck eliminating scratches in the polyurethane finish of the Sapelli interior wood using a "Fix It" pen (Simoniz). These are inexpensive repair pens that are marketed for fixing scratches in the clear coat finish of automobiles. They use a UV activated hardener--ambient daylight seems to work just fine--doesn't need to be direct sunlight. You can find these or similar products online and we have seen them in a few stores in the US. They work very well--making the scratch invisible and adding a durable coating layer. Try them on smaller scratches first--hopefully you don't have any really deep or large ones!

Bob
Brittany de la Mer

OHHHH a moderator in waiting AND one with a crystal ball to who speaks for
'most of us' on the group

OH MY :-(

David

On 22 July 2011 19:45, thomas.kleman@... <thomas.kleman@...>wrote:

**


All- while I enjoy and learn from most of the threads, of late there has
been quite a bit of dreary pablum and self aggrandizement by people who
must
have missed the "amelyachtowners" part of the URL. Like most people, I
belong to several groups outside of this one for general sailing info. This

group is valuable to me (and dare I speak for most of us) because it is
AMEL
specific. Someone's flying resume would seem to fail the relevance test. As

the site supports direct person to person email for these enthralling
exchanges of credentials, perhaps we can keep the site clear of them in the

future.

Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless


-----Original message-----
From: David Mackintosh <sv.highland.fling@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Fri, Jul 22, 2011 13:39:13 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: [Amel] Re: Maramu prop shaft alternator

Well what can i say,

My flying starts with PA28's and included the PA 30 with non contra
rotating
props and the PA 39 with contra rotating props and goes all the way up to
the L1011 B757 and even the LHD Death Cruiser he he.

The P factor will i suspect actually de power the wind generator sadly i
dont have the time or the motivation to actually sit down and calculate
this
- perhaps introducing the P factor into this discussion was not helpful -
it
is as you probably fully understand one of 'the results' which is why i did
include it.

All i know is real time actual results. When i was sailing with many of my
friends in the Caribbean they tied off their W/G's when out sailing in
20+knots of wind as they complained of 'problems' in high winds and big
seas. Now they were all on dedicated W/G poles or Radar Arches. Having the
W/G on the mast well you may not notice 'issues' as the mast is supported
to
handle sail loadings.

But we have all played with a gyroscope i am sure and we know how hard it
is
to move it when it is spinning - put that gyroscope/W/G on the end of a 10
foot pole or even a 30 foot mast and well you are amplifying that effect.
Now put that pole/mast on a sailboat that is moving in a variety of
directions at unpredictibale speeds and rates of change and you are
introducing some serious loads to your W/G mount(s).

I can see a use for wind generators at anchor in anchorages with >10knots
of wind and for sure they work when the sun does not shine - like i
explained i am conflicted as to the CBA vis a vis burning diesel and
purchasing and installing W/G and Solar. I should add i dont have an Amel
nor a generator on board and as we have added more and more electrical
loads
we need to seriously look at some means of generating more electricity
'MOSTLY' when we are sailing as the autopilot and all the new electronics
and new 12V freezer (soon new 12V Fridge) and other loads mean that on
passage (only inter island stuff 8 to 16 hours at most) we need to either
run the engine (do some gentle motor sailing) or selectively switch on and
off various bit of kit as well as hand steer for a while something we enjoy
in the heavy weather but not for 8 or more hours. We have a Raymarine E120
plotter and that is too heavy on power consumption for use all the way
through any inter island passage but we have a Raymarine Raynav 320 which
uses much less power so that gets used for power saving navigation. As they
both talk to each other we can share waypoints etc. Obviously the E120 does
much more for us but ATM its power consumption is unsustainable for inter
island passages. I would love a PSA and i am planning to put one on our
boat
ASAP my preference would be to use a PMA as a PSA but cant see an easy way
of stopping that charging - sounds like a job for a lead screw to adjust
belt tensioning or diverting that output to a 12V element in the hot water
tank IF or once the batteries are fully charged. Obviously the normal
car/boat style alternator has advantages in a PSA application as you can
simply switch it on and off BUT the down side of that is that to power the
coils and excite the alternator you are going to use 1 amp.

To get back to non contra rotating props :-) i am always amazed and it is
fun to watch and to see the difference in reaction and rotation of twin
W/G's on other boats.

regards

David

On 22 July 2011 02:07, Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@...> wrote:

**


David,

In my flying career I spent close to 5000 hours in large turbo-prop
aircraft so gyroscopic effects are well known to me. (Not all twin engine
aircraft have counter-rotating props). In any case, perhaps you can

explain

how "P-factor" would impair a wind generator that is free to swivel. The
force vector is going to simply cause it to rotate one way or the other,
isn't it? Given the movement of the boat, there's not going to be a

steady

force in any one direction.

--- In amelyachtowners@..., David Mackintosh
<sv.highland.fling@...> wrote:

I think you will find a wind generator is not really usable when

sailing

in

decent winds and seas as gyroscopic effects and precession all start to

have

a serious effect.

You are correct of course water being denser than air it is much easier

to

extract power from a water driven propeller. BUT i think you miss the

point

- lets say a PSA producing 10/15 Amp takes 1.5 HP to drive That HP has

to

come from somewhere - the sails :-) To get your say what 22 metric ton
Amel up to hull speed is going to take say 80 HP so the losses assuming
they can be measured in a real live real time situation are going to be
insignificant really

Plus if you have 150/200 HP from your sails you have an excess of power

and

since your Amel cant get up and plane - you have oodles of spare free

HP

to

drive your PSA. Any time you have more power from your sails than that
needed to drive the boat at hull speed..there will be no actual loss of
performance when using the PSA.

Actual real time real life reports on the PAS performance say the

losses

are

insignificant - not really measurable.

Now lets look at the trasmission designed to drive this 22MT boat with

say

70 SHP..............do you really think you can damage that

transmission

in

any way by powering a 1.5 HP PSA with it? I think NOT!!!

IF anyone wants to dump their PSA then please contact me i would love

to

have it :-)

regards

David

On 20 July 2011 00:13, Dave_Benjamin <dave_benjamin@...> wrote:

**


I'm a bit confused about the comparison in losses between the PSA and

a

wind generator. Water is far denser than air. The prop becomes a

speed

brake

of sort. I'm not a physicist but I'd wager that amp for amp the

performance

loss with a wind generator is negligible compared to a PSA.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]