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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy- prop shaft alternator
Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...>
Hi Pat,
Your understanding is not entirely accurate. Yes when you switch ON the PSA with the original keyed switch, you switch ON the exciting current for the rotor, but you also connect the positive from the PSA to the service battery bank. So that when the key if OFF, the PSA is completely 'disenergized'. Theoretically, if the alternator is energized only by the small trio of diodes while the propeller is turning, the rotor should remain magnetized until the speed of the rotor falls below that requires to produce AC. However when the switch is OFF, the DC current stops flowing in the batteries (the amp meter is at 0) and i have never checked ( just putting a screwdriver over the pulley PSA would suffice) if the rotor immediately ceases to be enrgized! Now when the PSA key is ON, there are two situations: -The propeller is turning fast enough to overcome the resistance resulting from the magnetized alternator rotor being attracted by the steel of the stator, for me a hull speed over water of 5+ knots, the alternator starts charging. When the charging has started, the small trio of diodes within the alternator. for those fitted with same, generates the rotor current, the red light goes off, no current is drawn from the battery bank and the meter indicates the amps flowing towards the battery bank. -The flow of water is reduced, for whatever reason, the propeller does not turn fast enough, then the switch allows the rotor to be energized, until the waterflow speed is picked up and the propeller can overcome the resistance of the magnetized rotor. The effect of the resistance of the energized PSA is difficult to determine. I have tried, but a serious analysis requires too many tests. My experience is half a knot is lost when the boat is at 8 kts, but in strong (over 20 kts) winds, i still reach hull speed??? If i am racing another boat in 15 kts wind, i switch off he PSA and i beleive i do gain some speed, so as to give no one any reason to say they could sail around my boat, although, may be, jettison of my 1 1/2 tons of fresh water and almost one ton of fuel etc., might be more efficient! Serge, V Opéra, Mango #51 Note:- FOR SALE LAETITIA II info: www.columbia37.com ---: Jeu, 9.9.10, sailw32@... écrit : De : sailw32@... <sailw32@...> Objet : Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy- prop shaft alternator À : amelyachtowners@... Date: jeudi 9 septembre 2010 09 h 13 Serge, Thanks for your reply. I could not understand why the engine driven alt. would damage the PSA, and according to you it will not.If I understand correctly , when I turn the key down below that will excite the PSA, once excited it will remain so without further amperage from an external source . So then if I turn the key off to the PSA it will continue to charge until the shaft stops rotating, is that correct ? Thanks, Pat SM 123 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy- prop shaft alternator
Patrick McAneny
Serge, Thanks for your reply. I could not understand why the engine driven
alt. would damage the PSA, and according to you it will not.If I understand correctly , when I turn the key down below that will excite the PSA, once excited it will remain so without further amperage from an external source . So then if I turn the key off to the PSA it will continue to charge until the shaft stops rotating, is that correct ? Thanks, Pat SM 123
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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy- prop shaft alternator
Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...>
This question of switch for the prop shaft alternator (PSA) is rather simple.
In order to generate current, not only does the PSA require turning but the rotor initially requires 2 to 5 amp of 12v to create the magnetic field. Once the alternator is running, if, as it should, a small diode trio is installed in the PSA, then the PSA generates this energy and does not draw on the batteries to supply current to the rotor. When the diode trio operates the small red lamp will extinguish since the voltage on both side of the lamp is the same. This also usually indicates the PSA is producing current. However the main diodes could be open or otherwise damaged, and if so, no energy would be sent to the batteries. For this purpose another light or better, a amp meter is installed. There is no need to energise the PSA when the motor is running, because, there is usually one or more often two alternators running from the motor and if there was any current produced by the PSA (which i doubt since the motor alternator should be running at a higher speed) it would also draw on the power directed to the propeller, and that is inefficient. The switch shows the refinement of the yachtbuilder in not hampering the efficiency of the motor. As to having multiple sources of energy charging the batteries, there is no other inconvenience since all would be equipped with diodes which not only serve as protection of the circuit such as in voltaic panels, but in alternators, the 6 large diodes serve as rectifier of the AC produced by the alternator and as blocking diodes for the DC current originating from the batteries or any other source. If the batteries are fully charged the regulator on or in the alternator (s) including that of the PSA will reduce the current produced by the rotor to a nominal amount, usually 4 to 5 amp and neither the batteries nor other normally protected component should be damaged! BTW, if the motor only alternator fails while motoring, it would be verry appropriate after deconnecting it from the circuit, to use the PSA as the alternate source of current... I am glad to have a PSA for offshore voyages. If i had a SM i would seriously consider the installation of a hydro propelled alternator: it is a simple technology, it work at all times and under almost all conditions if the boat is moving. I know i do not have this problem with my Mango, but i am not shure that on a SM, i would use any hydro propelled alternator with its propeller trailing the boat in very strong winds or heavy following seas? May-be someone in the group knows better! Serge, V Opéra, Mango #51 Note- FOR SALE LAETITIA II info: www.columbia37.com Mer, 8.9.10, Richard03801 <richard03801@...> a écrit : De : Richard03801 <richard03801@...> Objet : Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy À : "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> Date: mercredi 8 septembre 2010 12 h 06 Pat you should NOT be able to stat the engine when the alternator is turned on one and two if you can if there is no one way diode in the line you can stand a good chance of Blowing the alternators. When you hook it back up be sure there is an exciter wire to the alternator to get it to charge. Remember you need 1500 rpm at the pulley to charge. Call if you have questions I'm in Annapolis. Regards Richard Piller On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:39, sailw32@... wrote: I am having my shaft driven alternator rebuilt this week and hope to have[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: First pics AMEL 64 !!!!!!!!!!
trahmig <trahmig@...>
LOVE TO SEE THE NEW AMEL. PLEASE SEND PICTURES.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
THANK YOU, TRUDY RAHMIG
--- In amelyachtowners@..., "luvkante" <luvkante@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy
Eric Lindholm <etlindholm@...>
I don't think running the engine at the same time as the shaft alternator, or
having any other charging system connected will damage anything. I have turned on my shaft alternator at the same time as my engine with no problem. When I did, the amp-meter on the shaft alternator went to zero, presumably because the engine alternator and regulator were set to a higher voltage, and the shaft alternator regulator sensed this and shut off. It may be a different story for different brands of alternators or regulators, but I doubt it. I have run a number of twin engine boats with both engine alternators charging the same battery banks, which is essentially the same, again no problem. Eric Maramu 105 ________________________________ From: "sailw32@..." <sailw32@...> To: amelyachtowners@... Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 5:39:40 AM Subject: Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy I am having my shaft driven alternator rebuilt this week and hope to have it reinstalled this weekend.In the four years I' ve owned my SM it has never had any output and I have meant to get this working for some time. Can someone confirm that running the engine while the shaft alternator is engaged will damage the alternator ? Thanks, Pat SM 123 In a message dated 8/24/2010 10:23:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sbmesasailor@... writes: I hope this has not been covered in a previous post as I have only started monitoring this group. I have a 1982 Maramu with an alternator running off the free-wheeling propeller shaft. I have also installed an Air Breeze wind generator as well as 180 watts solar panels. The boat came with an ignition cut-off switch to prevent starting the engine while the prop shaft alternator was engaged as I assume the charge from the engine-run alternator will fry the shaft-run alternator. Does anyone know if the wind generator and/or the solar panels should be similarly isolated from frying this alternator? Thanks Dennis & Virginia Johns sv Libertad [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy
Richard03801 <richard03801@...>
Pat you should NOT be able to stat the engine when the alternator is turned on one and two if you can if there is no one way diode in the line you can stand a good chance of
Blowing the alternators. When you hook it back up be sure there is an exciter wire to the alternator to get it to charge. Remember you need 1500 rpm at the pulley to charge. Call if you have questions I'm in Annapolis. Regards Richard Piller On Sep 8, 2010, at 8:39, sailw32@... wrote: I am having my shaft driven alternator rebuilt this week and hope to have [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] Recharging Redundancy
Patrick McAneny
I am having my shaft driven alternator rebuilt this week and hope to have
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
it reinstalled this weekend.In the four years I' ve owned my SM it has never had any output and I have meant to get this working for some time. Can someone confirm that running the engine while the shaft alternator is engaged will damage the alternator ? Thanks, Pat SM 123
In a message dated 8/24/2010 10:23:17 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
sbmesasailor@... writes: I hope this has not been covered in a previous post as I have only started monitoring this group. I have a 1982 Maramu with an alternator running off the free-wheeling propeller shaft. I have also installed an Air Breeze wind generator as well as 180 watts solar panels. The boat came with an ignition cut-off switch to prevent starting the engine while the prop shaft alternator was engaged as I assume the charge from the engine-run alternator will fry the shaft-run alternator. Does anyone know if the wind generator and/or the solar panels should be similarly isolated from frying this alternator? Thanks Dennis & Virginia Johns sv Libertad
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Amel - September TIDE
Barbara Nairne
Hi - just a follow on from previous msg looking for owner of yacht September Tide - we have located and hopefully this is the AMEL for us.
Have a good day-
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Amel Mango - SEPTEMBER TIDE
Barbara Nairne
Hi
We have seen this yacht advertised for sale in Limassol Cyprus - our efforts to contact the broker by email and phone (no English spoken by operator) have met with zero response. Does anyone know the owner of September Tide so we can arrange to view this boat when we are in Europe next month. Thanks Barb Nairne email surfskis2002@...
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Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket
kimberlite <kimberlite@...>
Where can you find this Gasket?
Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite _____ From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of jlm@... Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:07 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket You can found it on internet for 2euros/meter jluc ---------------------------------------------------------- Le 04/09/2010 06:48, kimberlite a écrit : <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of john martin<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT &form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT &form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT>com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_Map sMenu_Resturants_1x1[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] That pesky companionway gasket!
kimberlite <kimberlite@...>
I don’t think my Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite has a drain under the
companionway. Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite _____ From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of sv Sangaris Sent: Monday, September 06, 2010 11:06 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel] That pesky companionway gasket! How 'bout just leaving the gasket off? At most you've got about a 1/16" gap and if you do get water down there (most likely while washing the cockpit, not getting pooped in the Southern Ocean!) it's got a drain hose directly into the gray water sump - that hose could use a flush now and then, anyway. Seems the constant rubbing on the companionway plywood is an issue - it ruined ours, like many other folks who have posted on this topic. Why ask for a repeat of that? We changed to lightly tinted plexiglass which is far superior to the plywood - letting much light below on those days you must close up. We certainly didn't want a gasket rubbing on plexiglass and have now been 7 years without the gasket - no problems whatsoever! So, whether you replace the Plywood or switch to plexi - I'd vote to simply lose the gasket - period! Cheers, Craig Briggs - s/v "Sangaris" Santorin #68, cruising Ionian Greece. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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That pesky companionway gasket!
How 'bout just leaving the gasket off?
At most you've got about a 1/16" gap and if you do get water down there (most likely while washing the cockpit, not getting pooped in the Southern Ocean!) it's got a drain hose directly into the gray water sump - that hose could use a flush now and then, anyway. Seems the constant rubbing on the companionway plywood is an issue - it ruined ours, like many other folks who have posted on this topic. Why ask for a repeat of that? We changed to lightly tinted plexiglass which is far superior to the plywood - letting much light below on those days you must close up. We certainly didn't want a gasket rubbing on plexiglass and have now been 7 years without the gasket - no problems whatsoever! So, whether you replace the Plywood or switch to plexi - I'd vote to simply lose the gasket - period! Cheers, Craig Briggs - s/v "Sangaris" Santorin #68, cruising Ionian Greece.
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Re: Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket
I'll see how these samples I have work first. If not adequate, will get in touch with a company that can make something for us and get the particulars on how much we need to order and cost before going any farther.
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Kent SM243 KRISTY
--- On Sun, 9/5/10, Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
From: Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...> Subject: Re: Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Sunday, September 5, 2010, 7:48 AM Yes, we would be interested. BTW, we tried to order the weather strip from Amel several weeks ago. They said they had no more. Best, Bill s/v BeBe SM2k, #387 Currently Penang, Malaysia --- In amelyachtowners@..., Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket
Judy and Bill aboard SV BeBe <yahoogroups@...>
Yes, we would be interested.
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BTW, we tried to order the weather strip from Amel several weeks ago. They said they had no more. Best, Bill s/v BeBe SM2k, #387 Currently Penang, Malaysia
--- In amelyachtowners@..., Kent Robertson <karkauai@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel] Refrigerator on SM
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Thanks, Jean. I will check it out. Ian
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To: amelyachtowners@...
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Re: Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket
Hi, Serge,
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I've just received some samples of other belt weatherstrippings and am going to try them on KRISTY. I'll let you all know how it works. I've found some companies that will produce what ever you want them to make, I'm sure at a hefty price unless it's a large order. Is anyone interested in getting together and having something custom-made that we could make available to all Amel owners? Kent SM243
--- On Sat, 9/4/10, Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...> wrote:
From: Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...> Subject: Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 4:25 AM This seal needed replacement on my 1985 Mango. a couple of years ago. A lenghty reasearch was concluded by the purchase of the seal from the only source found (with the exception of a scrapyard filled with old Renault cars) was: Amel in Larochelle. Since then, i have not reinstalled the seal, not because it is to much work ( it only requires screwing 4 small screws), but this seal had, over the years, seriously damaged the surface of the teek veneer and i had, while refinishing the wood work in the cockpit with Sikken- Cetol, tried to hide the damage to the companionway door with teack colored stain before refinishing it with Cetol. As many Amel owners know, completely replacing the wood panel or even redoing the teack veneer on the companionway requires unbolting the whole windshield in order to fully access this panel... Since then, i have been looking for a less agressive way of sealing this panel from the elements, althought i have'nt seen any adverse effect of not having this seal reinstalled while cruising in all kinds of weather for at least 5 000 Nm! Has anyone found an alternate solution to reinstalling this agressive seal initially conceived for a glass surface (which the Amel yard refers to as a 'lèvre Renault' ( Renault lip))? Serge, Opéra, Mango #51 . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket
Hi, Jluc,
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I've spent hours looking for this product and have found no one who has it or can get it except Amel at the ridiculous price of 80 euros plus shipping. Can you give us a website where you found it? Thanks, Kent SM243 KRISTY
--- On Sat, 9/4/10, jlm@... <jlm@...> wrote:
From: jlm@... <jlm@...> Subject: Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Saturday, September 4, 2010, 2:06 AM You can found it on internet for 2euros/meter jluc ---------------------------------------------------------- Le 04/09/2010 06:48, kimberlite a écrit :
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket
kimberlite <kimberlite@...>
Where can I find it?
Fair Winds Eric Amel Super Maramu #376 Kimberlite _____ From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of jlm@... Sent: Saturday, September 04, 2010 2:07 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket You can found it on internet for 2euros/meter jluc ---------------------------------------------------------- Le 04/09/2010 06:48, kimberlite a écrit : <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:amelyachtowners%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of john martin<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT &form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT<http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT &form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT>com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_Map sMenu_Resturants_1x1[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Rép. : [Amel] The companionway gasket
Serge Tremblay <laetitiaii@...>
This seal needed replacement on my 1985 Mango. a couple of years ago.
A lenghty reasearch was concluded by the purchase of the seal from the only source found (with the exception of a scrapyard filled with old Renault cars) was: Amel in Larochelle. Since then, i have not reinstalled the seal, not because it is to much work ( it only requires screwing 4 small screws), but this seal had, over the years, seriously damaged the surface of the teek veneer and i had, while refinishing the wood work in the cockpit with Sikken- Cetol, tried to hide the damage to the companionway door with teack colored stain before refinishing it with Cetol. As many Amel owners know, completely replacing the wood panel or even redoing the teack veneer on the companionway requires unbolting the whole windshield in order to fully access this panel... Since then, i have been looking for a less agressive way of sealing this panel from the elements, althought i have'nt seen any adverse effect of not having this seal reinstalled while cruising in all kinds of weather for at least 5 000 Nm! Has anyone found an alternate solution to reinstalling this agressive seal initially conceived for a glass surface (which the Amel yard refers to as a 'lèvre Renault' ( Renault lip))? Serge, Opéra, Mango #51 .
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Re: [Amel] The companionway gasket
jlm@jlmertz.fr
You can found it on internet for 2euros/meter
jluc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Le 04/09/2010 06:48, kimberlite a écrit :
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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