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Bowthruster motor switch
Peter Tiner
HiWe need to put in a new bow thruster motor (Sleipner). We had a Sleipner technician looking at it and sent us a new motor. So far everything looked alright but when our technician loosened the motor and lifted it, the driveshaft came along a bit, maybe 20cm. Now he can’t get it back. We believe the original Sleipner shaft is lengthened just above the gearbox with a keyway (proper English word?) and now the key is somehow disorientated Has anyone had this problem or tried switching motor without getting out of water? \Peter sy Maiken A54 #52 |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Patrick McAneny
Craig, I should not have used psi to convey what I meant, I always operate my W/M at the low end of the green zone in salt water, and in fresh water the couple of times I have ran it just to be sure it was functional ,I kept the pressure slightly below the green zone. I don't even know what the psi is at the green zone . I just made sure that it did not go into the green or exceed normal water production level. Once again I only ran it for a short period to confirm functionality .
It obviously takes less psi to push fresh water thru the membranes and that is what I was trying to convey and was warned about by the manufacturer. Having said that ,he said providing you don't exceed the pressure limits ,it was fine to use your W/M in fresh water ,and many do.
Thanks,
Pat -----Original Message-----
From: Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris@...> To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Sent: Thu, Sep 10, 2020 1:13 am Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes Hi Pat,
If you run 800 psi in fresh water you will definitely damage your membrane. You want to limit the product water flow to that rated for the membrane in terms of LPH or GPH, definitely not the 800 +/- PSI for ocean water. Your sentence about "keep it a little lower and warning that it will get up to "max" more quickly" is telling - "max" is the maximum flow for the membrane, and that is reached at very low pressure in fresh water. The words "keep it a little lower" are hugely understated, as 200-300 psi is typically the fresh water range. Actually, household RO systems operate without any pump at all, just the water service pressure in the range of 35 psi or so. -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL |
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Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -
Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...>
Ken
i ask Victron for his batteries a BMS for all batteries There is my concern if this fails and it is not noticed all batteries damaged if each battery has a BMS is only one damaged. Elja Von meinem iPhone gesendet |
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Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -
Sheriffdep
Elja,
Each LifePo4 battery has some type of BMS. Most are internal. IT manages the charge and draw down for each of the cells inside it. Prevents overcharging, prevents draining the battery, and makes sure the cells are evenly charging and discharging among other things. ALL BMS's are not equal. There are quality issues with many on the market. |
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Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -
Elja Röllinghoff Balu SM 222 <Bijorka@...>
He Ken
So i think shout prevere 24 V batteries with a BMS on each batterie ?? Is it right ? Thanks Elja SM Balu 222 Von meinem iPhone gesendet |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Hi Pat,
If you run 800 psi in fresh water you will definitely damage your membrane. You want to limit the product water flow to that rated for the membrane in terms of LPH or GPH, definitely not the 800 +/- PSI for ocean water. Your sentence about "keep it a little lower and warning that it will get up to "max" more quickly" is telling - "max" is the maximum flow for the membrane, and that is reached at very low pressure in fresh water. The words "keep it a little lower" are hugely understated, as 200-300 psi is typically the fresh water range. Actually, household RO systems operate without any pump at all, just the water service pressure in the range of 35 psi or so. -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL |
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Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -
This is my first posting to the forum. I am planning out my future with a buddy for circumnavigation and living on the boat. I am going to get either a SM2k or a Beneteau 57. Batteries are a huge plan for me. I have done tons of research on what to use and what my plans are. Most likely our usage will be as much as Delos (200+ amphr daily). During the Zoom meeting there were places for questions that were not answered.
Denis - Yes Bill and Battle Born did recommend the 24v over the 12v. BUT..... the BMS used in Battle born, whether the 12v or 24v batteries, will balance the cells just fine and going with the 24v ones won't make a difference. The Battle Born rep even said that but if you weren't paying attention closely you would miss it. The BB BMS are robust and the batteries are built better than all the rest being made these days. Worth the extra expense. However, IF BB would make a 24v with more than 100 amp hr capacity, in the same size Group 31, and price it lower than 2x the 12v price, I would be highly interested in that setup. Due to the 50amp hr current size it still would take 8x of them. I would rather do the 12v ones which allow for that emergency usage. As a thought - I also am considering if purchasing the SM2k doing a separate 12v bank purely for electronic usage and anything 12v. The Beneteau 57 has a 280amp hr bank for that and separated the 24v bank. Haven't done the calculations for that completely but would dedicate 1x solar panel for keeping that topped off (engine alternator when running also) and be able to charge cameras, flashlights, and run the depth and wind MFd's all day everyday without draining any of the main battery bank. Might be a bit over the top, but it would help. Options for extending the banks could be to put 2x extra 24v bank batteries in the aft clothes locker beside the bank or put them beside the nav station on the floor. Putting that extra pair should be fine as long as all the wires running to the unswitched distribution block from all the pairs are of equal length. That way they will all charge and discharge the same. Solar panels - I also noticed MOST people, lets say having 3x panels, have one MPPT to charge the bank. That one MPPT is the same cost as what 3x MPPT's would be for each panel due to inputed power levels. So if you had 3x MPPTs you would have complete redundancy if one went bad. Same cost. Starter - yes if you use 24v ones you would have to have a step down to 12v for that power. Phillippe - Please watch on YouTube DIY with Will Prowse and he shows PLENTY of low prices LiFEPo4 12v Group 31 batteries that are taken apart and investigated. He always finds issues with them such as not producing the stated amp hrs they should, cheaply made BMS circuits, incorrect sized wires inside the batteries, and poor sodering of terminals inside. Some could melt due to high flows of amps pulled during usage due to incorrect wires and some mislabeled relays. Make your decision off your research and what you can learn from those informational videos. I watch Ken's videos and enjoy them. I will be for sure watching his new setup and seeing how it works out. Same for Delos - most don't know and I don't think Brian mentioned it during the Zoom video but they had a 8x 12v 100amp hr setup. Not sure why but about 2 yrs into it (July 2020) they changed those out for new BB batteries and I wonder why. If aiming for higher amp hrs I get it. But I am highly interested in when his video in a month or so comes out to find out why they changed them. I have done some minor estimations --- if you use 200 amp hrs daily, and also have 900w of solar, you will cycle (each cycle is one full discharge of a battery bank capacity) once per 3 days or so. That is a bit over 115 cycles per year living on the boat. If the LiFPo4 batteries get 4k+ cycles (85% capacity at that time) that would be 40 yrs of usage. If that is the case then spending 2-300 more per battery to get the BB ones, which are the best, seems highly worth spending that extra money rather than trying to find a steal. This is the lifeblood of the vessel and something you will use every day so why risk it. This is of course IMHO. PS - If we all could run the AC unit or units off the bank I am sure we would. However take a look at the Gone with the Wynns website and on there they have a video explain a "soft start" modual that attaches to the ac unit and will drastically lower the amp hrs used and keep the kick start amp hrs way down. It manipulates the start up sequence to prevent the spike. This possibly if utilized would allow more usage of the AC's in a hot climate. I will be installing at least 1 if not for all three units. Hope this helps as I am learning myself |
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Re: Batteries starting to get weak - MMM - What to do -
Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
Hi Scott,
Actually, I only run the AC for 3 to 4 hours because I don't want to cycle the batteries too low, and I also want to save battery for the next day. If the batteries are full, I could run the AC all night long. But, it is still a game changer just to get the cabin cooled down, so I can get to sleep. 40Amps x 10 hours, should not be a problem. My batteries cost $1800 each, so I spent $3600 on the batteries (plus $500 shipping totaling $4100). But, for 600AH at 24V, that is an amazing price. It is almost as cheep as building the batteries yourself out of single cells, and buying a good BMS. O, and this is cheaper than getting good AGM's. I would consider using single cells next time where I get to choose the BMS. I have done a lot of research on LiFePO4 batteries, and catastrophic failure of a LiFePO4 battery is probably rarer than that of lead acid. You can short them, shoot them, or overcharge them and though they will be destroyed, they are not going to burn. Today, the weak link in the LiFePO4 batteries is the BMS. Almost all cells used by any reputable battery manufacturers are, 1) made in China, and 2) pretty dam good. They should all last about 5000 cycles if used and maintained properly. Cheers, Ken |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Sv Garulfo
141L/h for the Duo100? I’ve never experienced that, even with brand new (2017) membranes at 500h operation in the Med or during the following 400h of operation in the Atlantic tropics and the Pacific tropics. We carefully monitor production and with pressure set at the lower end of the green zone, the flow-meter points to 75L/h and the actual production rate (at least according to the Amel fresh water tank floating gauge) is ~80L/h. If i push the pressure to the middle of the green zone, I can get the flow meter to read 100L/h but i was under the impression (and instruction from previous owner) that the safer pressure was at the bottom of the green zone. Am i missing something? I’d love 141L/h. (Maybe our freshwater tank is bigger than the gauge thinks 😜) Thanks Thomas A54-122 Bora-Bora On Wed, 9 Sep 2020 at 08:50, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Patrick McAneny
Tom, Another owner posted a youtube video ,where a major manufacturer ,it may have been Spectra ,but not positive answered that question . He said as long as you are careful not to exceed the max psi ,it is fine to use in fresh water. He suggested to keep it a little lower and warned that it will get up to max more quickly. Being in fresh water and wanting to operate the W/M before leaving for the islands ,I called him to confirm this. He said that he has many operating on the Great Lakes and other inland waters. If you search youtube you may find it.
Pat
SM Shenanigans -----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> Sent: Wed, Sep 9, 2020 4:11 pm Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes This is not an area of expertise for me. However, I would like to either make a couple of points or ask of couple of questions, depending on my depth of knowledge.
The Dessalator manual mentions not to run in water less salty than normal ocean water. However, a member of this forum, name escapes me, stated that you could run in brackish water so long as you did not exceed the water production rate, which for me is 60 liters per hour. My theory on why was that either high pressures, or high water production rate was potentially harmful to the membranes. Is this correct?
Thanks
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay
-- Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes Chesapeake Bay |
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Re: A54 hawsehole and chain guide
Arno,
I had CROMOX quoted to me in December 2019 by MARINE TRADERS SUPPLIES in COOMERA QLD AUSTRALIA: AU$100 per 1 meter – about USD7,300 for 100 meters.
My initial reaction was “No fffing way; not in my life time” – but then thinking about some of the weather I have had on anchor while clearly my SS OEM chain was badly pitted in the welds at that time & how lucky I was no serious consequences ☹.
I decided to postpone the decision until back on the boat – which now looks like a 1 year postponement.
Best Regards Teun
A54 – 2009 #128 September 9, 2020 15:40:08
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
On Behalf Of Arno Luijten via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2020 06:17 To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] A54 hawsehole and chain guide
Teun, |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
HI Tom,
I think I'm the guy whose name escaped you. No problem - it's not the first time ;-) I posted a while ago that the belief you cannot run in brackish water is a long standing "old wives tale" about water makers. I said one should simply not exceed the fresh water flow rate of your membrane. My post went on to assert your membrane will even be happy running in the fresh water of, say, the US Great Lakes or up the Guadiana River between Portugal and Spain. The Dessalator manual saying only to use it in "normal ocean water" (whatever that is) is obviously written that way because their equipment uses a "Green Zone" which is calibrated for "normal" ocean water and they do not want to address any other usage scenarios for legal protection. It is similar to car makers eliminating gauges in favor of "Idiot lights". So, yes, you are totally correct in your theory that high pressures which would give a (TOO) high production rate is (definitely) harmful to the membranes. And that is easier to do in low salinity water if you are not monitoring the flow rate, but only looking at the "Green Zone". -- SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
David Wallace
If upping the pressure above 800 psi I would first make sure that the pressure vessel and the end cap seals are able to withstand the higher pressure.
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Dave Wallace
sv Air Ops
Maramu#104 On Sep 9, 2020, at 1:46 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Tom, I am sorry, I said Filmtec. This quote was from another water maker using Filmtec membranes. You will find it here: Bill
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Tom, Filmtec states the following about the SW30 2540 membrane, "This membrane is rated for a maximum 700 gallons per day, we use it in our watermakers to produce actual 21 gallons per hour from standard seawater (35000 ppm). In brackish water, freshwater production will increase but you should not exceed 30 gallons per hour or 700 gallons per day." So, I believe that if you turn the pressure down so that the flow rate does not exceed the rating for the sum of the flow rates of your membrane array, you'll be doing exactly what Filmtec states above. Here are the flow rates of common SW30 membranes: 
On Wed, Sep 9, 2020 at 3:12 PM Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Thomas Peacock
This is not an area of expertise for me. However, I would like to either make a couple of points or ask of couple of questions, depending on my depth of knowledge.
toggle quoted message
Show quoted text
The Dessalator manual mentions not to run in water less salty than normal ocean water. However, a member of this forum, name escapes me, stated that you could run in brackish water so long as you did not exceed the water production rate, which for me is 60 liters per hour. My theory on why was that either high pressures, or high water production rate was potentially harmful to the membranes. Is this correct? Thanks Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes Chesapeake Bay
--
Tom Peacock SM 240 Aletes Chesapeake Bay |
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Re: A54 hawsehole and chain guide
Oliver,
If WASI supplied that chain it is not good news as they supply either AISI304 or AISI316L chain. That is not suitable for long term anchoring as the steel needs to be exposed to the air regularly to prevent crevice corrosion. Cheers, Arno Luijten SV Luna, A54-121 |
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Re: A54 hawsehole and chain guide
Hi Thomas,
There was a reason I said cromox chain. There are many, many different qualities of SS. If you are at anchor for extended period of time some of those will suffer crevice corrosion because of oxygen deprivation. Cromox is resistant to this .... at a price. Crevice corrosion will be barely noticeable until it breaks, not the nicest way find out. Cheers, Arno Luijten SV Luna A54-121 |
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Re: Dessalator Watermakers & Filmtec Membranes
Thanks Bill,
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After I asked, I figured I’d man-up and search for myself. I found the exact page you posted. I guess it’s safe to run a bit higher pressure. The WM will shut off if the pressure goes too high I believe...... Well this means that the float in the flow meter will disappear when the pressure is higher in the green zone (it does). ~~~⛵️~~~Matt On Sep 9, 2020, at 9:23 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
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Re: A54 hawsehole and chain guide
SS chain has a lower WLL and is a bit more brittle than galvanized high test (G40)
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~~~⛵️~~~Matt On Sep 9, 2020, at 8:47 PM, Sv Garulfo <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
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