Matt,

   They seem to rightfully be concerned about pressurized,  flammable or items that are dangerous in some way.    I don’t see how this item should be a concern.  Please keep in mind that I do not have any experience thus far with the H2Out system so do your own research!  Best of luck.

James

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 8:30 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

I wonder if the TSA will pull it out of checked baggage?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 7:21 PM, eric freedman <kimberlite@...> wrote:

Sorry the image is hard to read-

This is the write-up from Howes. It is used most of the time in fuel depots where the diesel is stored over the summer for home heating oil.

At Howes we understand the science and importance of year round lubricity and protection and our Meaner Power Kleaner is the proof. Safely eliminating water and removing the environment that creates bacteria, Meaner Power Kleaner contains no alcohol or harmful solvents and eliminates injector deposits. The end result is a performance enhancing product that protects your engine and boosts MPGs…guaranteed!

 

We then add Howes fuel treatment, This stuff is incredible. Please read the label. It also guaranteed 5% better fuel economy. PHOTO IS BELOW

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

Sent: Sun<image001.png>day, February 09, 2020 6:37 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

All good points, James.

Working with dessicant dryers for air compressors, on a humid day, the crystals were pink (from clear) in a few hours. 

I fear that a proper dryer that one could set and forget for 6 months, if it exists, would be active, powered, and be another,complex system to maintain and monitor. Maybe a pressurized system like the ones on automobiles would work, that don’t allow air, readily into the system? I’ve not studied how they work, so I plead ignorance....😊

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 5:06 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Matt,

 

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

 

Best,

 

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

 

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

 

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

 

 

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

 

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

 

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

 

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

 

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

 

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and Porter,

 

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

 

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

 

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

 

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

 

Nick

 

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

 

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

 

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

 

Porter A54-152

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 

 

 

 

Matt,

   I came across a company called H2Out that sells driers for vent lines that suggests an annual change of the desiccant with a properly sized unit.   I would think that unless the boat is in motion that air movement through the vent should be pretty minimal so quite different from the continuous forced flow through an air compressor intake.  Definitely more research needed before I add this to my boat but I like the concept.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

All good points, James.

Working with dessicant dryers for air compressors, on a humid day, the crystals were pink (from clear) in a few hours. 

I fear that a proper dryer that one could set and forget for 6 months, if it exists, would be active, powered, and be another,complex system to maintain and monitor. Maybe a pressurized system like the ones on automobiles would work, that don’t allow air, readily into the system? I’ve not studied how they work, so I plead ignorance....😊

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 5:06 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Matt,

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

Best,

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Sorry the image is hard to read-

This is the write-up from Howes. It is used most of the time in fuel depots where the diesel is stored over the summer for home heating oil.

At Howes we understand the science and importance of year round lubricity and protection and our Meaner Power Kleaner is the proof. Safely eliminating water and removing the environment that creates bacteria, Meaner Power Kleaner contains no alcohol or harmful solvents and eliminates injector deposits. The end result is a performance enhancing product that protects your engine and boosts MPGs…guaranteed!

 

We then add Howes fuel treatment, This stuff is incredible. Please read the label. It also guaranteed 5% better fuel economy. PHOTO IS BELOW

 

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

Sent: Sun<image001.png>day, February 09, 2020 6:37 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Paranoia about the D3-110 Volvo Penta - diesel bug

 

All good points, James.

Working with dessicant dryers for air compressors, on a humid day, the crystals were pink (from clear) in a few hours. 

I fear that a proper dryer that one could set and forget for 6 months, if it exists, would be active, powered, and be another,complex system to maintain and monitor. Maybe a pressurized system like the ones on automobiles would work, that don’t allow air, readily into the system? I’ve not studied how they work, so I plead ignorance....😊

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 5:06 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Matt,

 

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

 

Best,

 

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

 

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

 

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

 

 

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

 

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

 

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

 

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

 

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

 

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and Porter,

 

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

 

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

 

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

 

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

 

Nick

 

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

 

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

 

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

 

Porter A54-152

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 6:37 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

All good points, James.

Working with dessicant dryers for air compressors, on a humid day, the crystals were pink (from clear) in a few hours. 

I fear that a proper dryer that one could set and forget for 6 months, if it exists, would be active, powered, and be another,complex system to maintain and monitor. Maybe a pressurized system like the ones on automobiles would work, that don’t allow air, readily into the system? I’ve not studied how they work, so I plead ignorance....😊

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 5:06 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Matt,

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

Best,

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Hi Steve,

we have a 90% built for us by Super Sailmakers in Ft Lauderdale. We wanted a heavy weather sail. They made it with a high cut Yankee type foot to allow room for breaking seas over the deck. At the head they put a tape probably 2 meters long because the sail would have been too tall and narrow if it went to the top of the mast head fore stay. It looked incredibly small compared to the 155% and I commented to him it would only be of use in strong winds. He disagreed and was right. Over 10 knots true wind speed going to windward would be very close to the big sail performance. 15 knots and more as good or better and a whole lot easier to handle. So certainly the 90% could be rigged if you anticipate extended windward sailing.And if the wind gets too much it is furlable. We use the same outboard track as the big genoa

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 10 February 2020 at 12:39 Steve Bode <Whatsup@...> wrote:

This is a very interesting thread! I love the way Intention sails in all wind conditions! Last summer, we were punching into 30+ knots apparent with two reefs in the genoa, no main and one reef in the mizzen and she was ever so happy to do so. I was very pleased. 

Sorry if this is not the right thread for this question, but I see several people in this thread mention a 90% jib. That's what I'd like because sailing in the med, we often need to punch into the wind for days and a 90 would be built for the task. The issue is when we reef the genoa, while the sail shape is okay, the leads are so far outboard that we can't point. Again, I am NOT interested in rigging a staysail stay. I would drop the genoa and raise the 'blade' instead of the Genoa.
So, here are my questions;

1. Would buying a new 90 and laying a new track on the deck that was more inboard be a good idea or not?

2. Has anyone out there actually done something like this on their SM and what was your experience? I saw pictures of a SM with a self-tacking track setup (SV Nomad) and a staysail. Mind you, I am NOT interested in a staysail, I would drop the jib and rig the 90 on days when I know I'm headed upwind all day...or all week.

Many thanks for your input.

THIS IS SV NOMAD 


--
Steve Bode
Capt. SV Intention
Amel SM #117 (1994)
+1 415 710-6659 Mobile/Text/WhatsApp
facebook.com/stevebodesanfrancisco
svintention.com

Matt,

 

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

 

Best,

 

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

 

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

 

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

 

 

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

 

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

 

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

 

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

 

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

 

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and Porter,

 

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

 

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

 

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

 

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

 

Nick

 

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

 

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

 

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

 

Porter A54-152

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 

 

 

 

On 10 February 2020 at 12:39 Steve Bode <Whatsup@...> wrote:

This is a very interesting thread! I love the way Intention sails in all wind conditions! Last summer, we were punching into 30+ knots apparent with two reefs in the genoa, no main and one reef in the mizzen and she was ever so happy to do so. I was very pleased. 

Sorry if this is not the right thread for this question, but I see several people in this thread mention a 90% jib. That's what I'd like because sailing in the med, we often need to punch into the wind for days and a 90 would be built for the task. The issue is when we reef the genoa, while the sail shape is okay, the leads are so far outboard that we can't point. Again, I am NOT interested in rigging a staysail stay. I would drop the genoa and raise the 'blade' instead of the Genoa.
So, here are my questions;

1. Would buying a new 90 and laying a new track on the deck that was more inboard be a good idea or not?

2. Has anyone out there actually done something like this on their SM and what was your experience? I saw pictures of a SM with a self-tacking track setup (SV Nomad) and a staysail. Mind you, I am NOT interested in a staysail, I would drop the jib and rig the 90 on days when I know I'm headed upwind all day...or all week.

Many thanks for your input.

THIS IS SV NOMAD 


--
Steve Bode
Capt. SV Intention
Amel SM #117 (1994)
+1 415 710-6659 Mobile/Text/WhatsApp
facebook.com/stevebodesanfrancisco
svintention.com

Matt,

 

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

 

Best,

 

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

 

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

 

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

 

 

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

 

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

 

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

 

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

 

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

 

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and Porter,

 

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

 

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

 

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

 

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

 

Nick

 

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

 

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

 

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

 

Porter A54-152

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 

 

 

 

Matt,

 

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

 

Best,

 

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

 

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

 

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

 

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

 

 

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

 

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

 

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

 

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

 

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

 

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

 

Hi Scott and Porter,

 

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

 

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

 

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

 

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

 

Nick

 

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

 

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

 

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

 

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

 

Porter A54-152

 

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

 

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 

 

 

 

 

Matt,

  I agree.    The desiccant cartridges would need to be replaced from time to time  Most of the ones I have considered change colour indicating the need while others can be heated to drive off the moisture and returned to service.  I have been looking at some commercial solutions so the cost is fairly reasonable but more research is needed to determine the effectiveness and life expectancy in a marine environment.   If anyone has found a good workable solution for installed a desiccant in the vent line please share.

Best,

James

  

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

On Feb 9, 2020, at 3:10 PM, Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt@...> wrote:

A desiccant/dryer would be a great idea. Finding one that is maintenance free, and passive, may be a problem.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 9, 2020, at 12:23 PM, James Alton via Groups.Io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Scott,

    That is a strange one.  I would try measuring the voltage at the motor during operation to what is going on.  If you lose power at the BT during your test then back track the BT wiring  while operating the BT to find the fault.  If you have voltage at the motor when it stops during your test then look into the motor.  Maybe a relay issue?   Best of luck.  

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 9:07 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Our bow thruster was indeed wired through a switch, too.

I've worked with Sleipner to try to isolate the intermittent functioning problem to no avail. It runs full speed and then stops momentarily and then will start again. No slowdown to indicate drop in voltage. The Amel joystick has been cleaned and tested and shows nearly zero ohms on activation.

Every switch and thermal protection within the Sidepower thruster has been "jumpered" and it still doesn't work. I was hoping the problem was the main battery switch but I moved the positive bow thruster supply wire from the secondary side of the switch directly to the battery side. The only thing left is the motor itself but the brushes and commutator look perfect. The annoying bit is that this motor is only a year old and Sleipner wants me to ship it back to them from Panama at my cost, wait for them to test it, get warranty approval, ship it back (at my cost) and pay customs duty. I might as well buy a new motor! With a canal appointment, I clearly don't want to do this.

Anyone have any other ideas on what I should check? I haven't tested voltage at the BT during operation because I don't have alligator clips, but the fact that the BT either runs full speed or not at all, without any slowdown indicates to me that it's not an issue with enough voltage getting to the BT.


--Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

Some great discussion here.  One item that I did not see discussed that could be  helpful especially in humid climates is adding a dessicant dryer to the vent line.  Regular replacement and lubrication of the O ring seal at the fill cap is important as well.  Best of luck.

James

SV Sueno

Maramu #220

On Feb 9, 2020 11:49 AM, "Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io" <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I agree Nick— You're right, certainly about the industry norm.  And I’m sure there are many theories on this: and mine may be incorrect.  But the way I think of it: Crud exists in a myriad of sizes.  Crud forms… then  gets into the filter system and clogs.  If i have a series of sequentially smaller sized filters, i simply clog them all. and then replace them all.  If a bolus of crud makes it into the sequential filtering setup: filters essentially sort the crud into smaller sizes at a great cost (especially with the last Volvo filter now being fouled).  So we've cruised with the 2 micron setup for about 500 hours of motoring from panama to NZ last year and it seemed to work well.  no issues.  Filters seemed pretty good looking when i changed them  Usually around 100 hrs,  (I previously was quite derelict about it, prior to really understanding how important clean fuel was.)  I have noticed the manometer pressure reading on the setup would climb slightly over the 100 hrs, but never concerningly high.  

So scenario above A, with ostensibly clean fuel, worked for us, for this while.

So… Scenario B: Cruddy fuel shows up.  A slosh of crud makes it into the filter setup. (is this an isolated bit of crud, or does it advertize a yet much larger crub problem in the tank)  Currently it would saturate the 2 micron first filter and pressures climb, engine shuts down alerting us to a pressure scenario  and we change filter: but now we know we have cruddy fuel and need to polish it and the tank. (and why I’d like a separate fuel polishing system on board.)  Heres where my scenario breaks down: it depends on the amount of crud: pump it out and through baja filter into jerry cans? then run engine off jerry cans?  or...( I do have a bunch of 10mn  and 30mn sizes as well) as well put those on and let the filters clean the crud out: but if I increase the racor size then ill be clogging my 130$ volvo filters very fast: i carry about 4 of those, They're proprietary and hard to get in places.  It turns into a "S" show.  

So what's governed our cruising: sail smart, with wind as much as possible so we motor little.  Praise our relatively large 900 litre tank, and the freedom it adds to be discriminate about fuel choice. When others are fueling out of necessity, i find myself adding fuel not because i think we're low, but…  hey were sailors and should keep topped up stores.  

I'd be surprised if I’d completely thought this through, I'm sure there are some folks who really understand this at a much deeper level and I would love to hear from them and you.

And as you note Nick, it is the industry norm, and usually there is good reason for that!  To that end, if the Volvo-proprietary “C” filters were as inexpensive as the racors—I’d also stick to industry norm.  

I’d respectfully welcome any thinking and guidance.

Porter A54-154 with a  “H” model D3-110

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:42 AM, ngtnewington Newington via Groups.Io <ngtnewington@...> wrote:

Hi Scott and Porter,

I choose to use a 10 or even 30 micron filter on the Racor followed by the Volvo secondary filter which is 2 micron I believe.

In my opinion by having the pre-filter at 2 micron you are in effect only having one filter. So in the event of major contamination the Racor will plug and the engine will suffer from fuel starvation. You may also damage the fuel pump, although on the 54 the fuel is gravity fed from the tank to the filters.

The same principle applies to the water maker. There is a course filter followed by the fine filter. You can not just go straight to the fine.

I know this is a controversial subject but that is my opinion….and the industry norm.

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019

Kilada Greece

On 9 Feb 2020, at 15:10, Porter McRoberts via Groups.Io <portermcroberts@...> wrote:

I understand. We have the same setup. The dual racor (A vs B) and A+B if one wishes.  We keep the 2 micron on both A and B and use only A or B, switching back and forth.  Filter C is of course the very pricey Volvo-specific filter/fuel water separator, which is what I want to spare by using the 2 micron. I watch the pressure gauge on the racors a lot.  That’s why we change frequently, to keep pressures low.  We have no pre-pre filters.  

I remember a thread on this about a year ago, the 2 micron pre-filter argument.  That’s when we switched.  Its hard to be scientific when we have limited data re what works “best.”

Great comments on why to keep the tank full during storage.

Porter A54-152

On Feb 9, 2020, at 10:02 AM, Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:

Porter,

I have the two racor filter setup. I consider this the primary filter / pre-filter.

Options:

1) FilterA only
2) FilterB only
3) FilterA and FilterB in parallel

Do you run the 2 micron filters here?

On my D3-110C there's a Volvo spin-on filter (2 micron) on the engine itself. We'll call that FilterC

Did you install a pre-filter before the Racors??
-- 
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com