Date   

Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

James Alton
 

Ken and All,

   I searched for one of the Echo Pilot 2D units (part #81034 with the bronze transducer housing) from US stores and found no stock.  Also a statement on one website that said that the manufacturer has discontinued this item.  I did not follow up on this but did see that a newer 3D Echo Pilot using 2 transducers is available at about 10X the price..  SVB24 had 3 of the 2D units still in stock,  now they have 2 since I just ordered one.   They are currently on sale for 1,092.39 Euros.  

   I don't expect this unit to be useful at all times and believe that it is hard to beat a good set of eyes on the bow or up the mast.  Still if this new tool prevents even one grounding it seems like it is a no brainer to add to the boat.  I have had to change anchorages at night before where chart information was poor or non existent.  I am hoping that under such conditions that this instrument can make such a move less stressful, we will see.  Thank you Ken for your input on the Echo Pilot 2D.

Best to all,
James
SV Sueno 


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 11:44 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Hello James,

I like the fact that the Echo Pilot is completely separate from the rest of the navigation equipment.  I would like a radar overlay on the chart plotter, but not the FLS.  You can spend more to have an integrated system, but I'm not sure it's useful for the FLS.  When I am in shallow water, I have the Echo Pilot going, and a few maps running.  Got my airplane pilot scan going, 1sec per screen, and then out of the cockpit... and repeat.  The FLS is just one of the inputs.  

Is this the best?  That, I could not say, because this is all I know.  Echo Pilot is easy to install, easy to use, and easy to set up.  Once set up, if the FLS needs more than an on off button that's too much.  For this reason, It's the best for me.

Ken
Aquarius SM2K#262


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Gerhard,

 Delighted to read your post and learn that Greece has such skills. Not always the way !

 Ian


From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of Gerhard Mueller via groups.io <carcode@...>
Sent: 30 September 2020 08:16
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network
 
Ian
I have had the same issue: EchoPilot 20 years old and display dead. Gracefully I was in Greece and able to send only the display unit to a repair company in Athen, Greece.
Within one week I got it back repaired and now I'm happy to use it again. Cost was about 100 Euro.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


Re: Deck painting

Kaplan,Andre
 

Jose
Thanks again
Andre



On Sep 30, 2020, at 11:13 AM, Jose Alegria <Josealegr@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Andre


One coat - 1 liter it is enough, use a normal brush and wait at least 48 hours 

There are only one color- transparent. 

The original color must be restored by this kind of " varnish".

Make a picture before and after.

regards

José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@...
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 15:13, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
Jose,
Thank you.
Is there a particular color I need? How many coats should be applied? Any advice on how to apply? How long to wait for drying.
Andre


On Sep 30, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Jose Alegria <Josealegr@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Andre
Try first of all - POLYTROL
Don´t solve the cracks but improve the appearance. 

<Unknown.jpeg>

regards


José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@gmail.com
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 14:52, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88







Re: Deck painting

Jose Alegria
 

Andre


One coat - 1 liter it is enough, use a normal brush and wait at least 48 hours 

There are only one color- transparent. 

The original color must be restored by this kind of " varnish".

Make a picture before and after.

regards

José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@...
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 15:13, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
Jose,
Thank you.
Is there a particular color I need? How many coats should be applied? Any advice on how to apply? How long to wait for drying.
Andre


On Sep 30, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Jose Alegria <Josealegr@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Andre
Try first of all - POLYTROL
Don´t solve the cracks but improve the appearance. 

<Unknown.jpeg>

regards


José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@gmail.com
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 14:52, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88







SM2K Lewmar ST 58 winch ELS control box p/n 48000222

Bob Ross
 

Hello,
Hope this finds everyone doing well.

Having trouble finding a supplier with this part. This is for the portside large electric ST58 winch.
Does anyone have one for sale or know of a supplier with this unit on hand?

Winch symptoms are much like described in previous threads. Works great manually and works barely under power and then is quick to become sluggish and basically stop working. 
The ELS unit demonstrates 24V in and 10V out. New problem for us so advice is welcome.

Thank you
Bob
Nomad #362 Charleston, SC USA


Re: Deck painting

Arnold Mente
 

Dear Andre,

in respect to the other examples you get, I would follow the procedure in the attached description.

Best
Arnold
SV Zephyr
SM203

Am 30.09.2020 um 15:52 schrieb Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...>:

To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88






<IMG_1099.jpg>


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Deck painting

Kaplan,Andre
 

Jose,
Thank you.
Is there a particular color I need? How many coats should be applied? Any advice on how to apply? How long to wait for drying.
Andre


On Sep 30, 2020, at 10:07 AM, Jose Alegria <Josealegr@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***
Andre
Try first of all - POLYTROL
Don´t solve the cracks but improve the appearance. 

<Unknown.jpeg>

regards


José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@gmail.com
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 14:52, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88







Re: Deck painting

Jose Alegria
 

Andre
Try first of all - POLYTROL
Don´t solve the cracks but improve the appearance. 

Unknown.jpeg
regards


José Alegria
A55#003MERIT
josealegr@gmail.com
Mobile: + 351 91 866 30 37




On Wed, 30 Sep 2020 at 14:52, Kaplan,Andre <kaplan@...> wrote:
To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88







Deck painting

Kaplan,Andre
 

To All
I have a 1988 Mango lying in Westbrook, CT. I’m considering repainting my deck, photo attached.
There are no discernible leaks associated with the cracks. What are my options for repainting the deck with goal of minimizing further cracks and improving appearance?
Thanks for any advice

Andre Kaplan
Renaissance 2000
Mango 71 88


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

My pennyworth . We have had an Echopilot since new , 20 years ago . We very rarely use it . 
However , in Chile we met a local guy with a wooden yacht who surveyed the canales in the south on behalf of fish farm companies . Much of his time was spent in uncharted waters . His experience was to set the forward range at no more than 50 m . He claimed it was the most essential tool he had . 
We did use it in Chile when entering uncharted caletas at very slow speeds and on a handful of occasions it served us well . 
I suspect that you need to practice a lot with it to get the best use of it. 
Elsewhere its greater comfort is in having a backup depth sounder in case the B&G packed up . 

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302 , Kithnos , Greece


On 29 Sep 2020, at 19:29, James Alton via groups.io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:


Ken,

     I was originally thinking of something that would interface with my B&G display but I think that you make a really good point about having a stand alone system in this case.  It helps a lot to hear from someone like yourself that has a lot of recent experience with a product, so thank you for sharing.  Easy and simple have a lot of value in my book as well so I will take a good hard look at the Echo Pilot option.  

Fair winds to you both,

James and Joann Alton
SV Sueno
Maramu #220



-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 11:44 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Hello James,

I like the fact that the Echo Pilot is completely separate from the rest of the navigation equipment.  I would like a radar overlay on the chart plotter, but not the FLS.  You can spend more to have an integrated system, but I'm not sure it's useful for the FLS.  When I am in shallow water, I have the Echo Pilot going, and a few maps running.  Got my airplane pilot scan going, 1sec per screen, and then out of the cockpit... and repeat.  The FLS is just one of the inputs.  

Is this the best?  That, I could not say, because this is all I know.  Echo Pilot is easy to install, easy to use, and easy to set up.  Once set up, if the FLS needs more than an on off button that's too much.  For this reason, It's the best for me.

Ken
Aquarius SM2K#262


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Gerhard Mueller
 

Ian
I have had the same issue: EchoPilot 20 years old and display dead. Gracefully I was in Greece and able to send only the display unit to a repair company in Athen, Greece.
Within one week I got it back repaired and now I'm happy to use it again. Cost was about 100 Euro.
--
Gerhard Mueller
Amel Sharki #60
Currently Kalamata, Greece


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Alan Leslie
 

We had the Interphase unit on Elyse when we bought her in 2013. About a year later the transducer failed. I obtained a replacement from Garmin in the US who had just bought Interphase. That transducer failed also, so I took it all out and got a 7" B&G plotter to go where the Interphase head unit was on the port side of the helm, and installed a ForwardScan transducer for it.
The ForwardScan system works OK in smooth water and at low speed, but if there's any slight pitching of the bow, it can't handle it and the picture goes crazy. 
The more expensive forward sonars (eg Furuno) have sensors in them to compensate for boat movement and keep the picture steady.  Not sure if Garmin has that.
As to hooking something up to a Furuno Navnet radar plotter, I doubt you'd find anything to do that.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

BTW I have 2 working Interphase head units on Elyse, if anybody wants them, you can have them for the cost of the postage, whenever I can get back to the boat.


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Ian Townsend
 

Hi Ken. The FLS was on the boat when we bought it. We thought it was pretty cool and we could use it in areas where we were uncertain and therefore give us more confidence in exploring or anchoring areas with changing depth contours. We had never had one before. To a certain extent, although minimally, this was true. We relied on it maybe two or three times. And we did notice the occasional false reading which gave our hearts a jump every so often. 

Our EchoPilot unit was 20 years old. The display died and to replace it would have meant switching out everything including transducer, wiring and control head. We talked with all the major guys at the Fort Lauderdale show in 2018. The issues they had, even with their own technology, were twofold. First, rated forward distance capability is not that far (it varies by manufacturer but not by much) and whether you could actually react in time. Second, consistent accuracy. 

As with everything, one must weigh the cost vs. benefit. For us, we have been happy to put our money into other things, including new electronics. 

Ian & Margaret
Loca Lola II
SM153

On Sep 29, 2020, at 2:14 PM, Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

Hello Ian,

It would be nice to know how the Echo Pilot died.  What happened, how it happened?   We hit a log off Columbia, and had to replace the transducer.  I really missed the EchoPilot when it was INOP, and was nice to get it operational again.   It's nice to get more information than... it died.   Also, you say you "Wanted to replace it".  So, I would think with this statement, you thought at the time having the FLS was in a word... "worthwhile".  Then you write.... "talked with all the major electronics manufacturers, none of whom seemed enthused by the technology."  What does this mean?  You talked with all the manufacturers of FLS units and none were enthused with their technology?  They all told you you should not replace your FLS because they are all junk?  

Seems very interesting that all the FLS manufacturers would say this!  Sorry for the sarcasm, just can't help myself. 

Ken


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Patrick McAneny
 

I have not read the bad press about the B&G FLS ,but I am less than impressed . I had it installed a few years ago when I replaced all my electronic on board . It sends out false signals showing obstruction and then disappears . No rep could explain or solve the issue. It may be that on  the Bay we have a mud bottom ??? I should have tried to use it in the Caribbean or New England ,but forgot to and never felt I need it. Maybe next time I have a hard bottom I will try to use it and see if it works better. But right now I wish I had spent the money on a lead line.
Does forward speed of the boat play a role in accuracy ? Maybe its me ,because this boat came with a new Interphase in the box , I installed it and was very disappointed in that as well. Going back to having my wife swim in front of the boat.
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 27, 2020 11:32 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Hi Stefan,

Actually the B&G version got some pretty bad press. I have no first hand experience so I cannot confirm.
If your plotter supports video-in you could consider this one: https://echopilot.com/products/fls-platinum-engine/

This company has been working on this stuff for quite some time and what I've seen they get pretty decent reviews.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Bottom paint

Patrick McAneny
 

Craig, Three coats have to be better than one ,and the barrier coats can only  help to keep the keel dry ,plus it provides a better bond for the bottom paint . Looking at Petit Premium HRT ,the manager at a local marina has gotten 3 yrs. and only $129. Gal. 


-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Briggs via groups.io <sangaris@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2020 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bottom paint

Pat,
You're right - their Technical Bulletin says one coat and their Product Data Sheet says three minimum. Also says don't let anything dry before the next coat until you've got the High Build Epoxy primer on (first coat, I'd assume.)
Their words suggest the Rustloc is the water proof part, so a specific barrier coat seems redundant, plus there is no fiberglass to protect from osmosis. 
Good luck with it.

Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Bottom paint

Craig Briggs
 

Pat,
You're right - their Technical Bulletin says one coat and their Product Data Sheet says three minimum. Also says don't let anything dry before the next coat until you've got the High Build Epoxy primer on (first coat, I'd assume.)
Their words suggest the Rustloc is the water proof part, so a specific barrier coat seems redundant, plus there is no fiberglass to protect from osmosis. 
Good luck with it.

Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Ken, what is the make and model of your fls. Does it have a stand alone display.

Thanks

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 29 September 2020 at 22:14 Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...> wrote:

Z and I have sailed a fairly good distance on Aquarius, and we touched the reef one time...  And that was when I didn't follow the guidance of my FLS.  All the maps said 2.5M, and we were at high tide..  Well, it was less than 2M, and I thought the FLS was wrong because it was saying 1.5M in front of me....  I was wrong, FLS was right, but luckily I only go .5KTS in those situations and was just a light bump and we backed out...  Now, I always listen to the FLS...  

There are Captains out there that will say, "I circled the globe without GPS, Who needs that"!   It's like some people want to prove they are better than others because they don't rely on such technology. "I just stick my wife up there, and she can spot everything". I don't use my FLS........  Great!

Last night I talked to another captain here in Thailand over a drink, and he was telling me the story about another captain he met that complained about other sailors that had to rely on their GPS... WHAT?  It's a device that when used properly, can make you safer captain. 


Here is my OPINION......  IF IT WILL MAKE YOU SAFER, AND IT's EASY TO USE, AND YOU WILL USE IT.  YOU SHOULD PROBABLY THINK ABOUT GETTING IT.   For that old sailor that thought GPS was useless, just think how safe he would be with a GPS, and the knowledge on how to use it properly...  All that old sailing knowledge, along with all the new tech, now that's what I would call... SAFE!  My friend said that he never again sailed with the old captain that didn't want to use a GPS.  

I have been saved twice by my forward looking sonar (FLS) "Echo Pilot".  I have several videos that show how I use the Echo Pilot when I am in shallow water, or potentially shallow water on our channel.  The Echo Pilotl helps me understand the shape of the bottom at and anchorage, or when I am trying to work my way in a narrow shallow channel.  Now, Yes, you can stick someone up on the bow....  That might be good idea in some cases.... BUT, in the Tuamotu Archipelago you might think twice about leaving you wife up on the bow for 5 hours as you make your way across one of the Atolls.   And, is she going to be sharp the entire time?  One of our friends hit the reef in the Tuamotu's, and they thought they were being safe.  Someone on lookout on the bow, but just a few second not watching after 4 hours of not seeing a thing, and WHAM they hit the reef.  Had to patch the hole, and head to Tahiti to get hauled out and repaired.  A nice $10K and 3 months later, everything good.  I was crossing one of the Atols, and my Alarm went off, I could see the reef in front of me on the FLS, and immediately applied full reverse, and we came within 10Ms of the reef.... Since I can only see what is directly in front of me, I don't try to turn, I just back out.   Aquarius would have hit that day.  I would like to add.....Sometimes the glare on the water makes it difficult to see the reef, but not for the FLS.  And.....Sometimes the clouds make it difficult to see the reef systems.  And, if the water is really clear... EVERYTHING LOOKS LIKE IT's 2M deep, then what do you do?  So, I guess you can stick someone up on the bow, and do you feel lucky.  Because they might not see it...   Fact is, you have the best chance of seeing the reef with someone up on the bow, and and FLS.   But, the person on the bow will get fatigued over time, and this will reduce the effectiveness of the watch.   $1500...  That's my 2cents....

I still think if you're going to cross oceans and sail new places...  Get an FLS that is easy to use, and you get good information...  I have one, and have been very happy with it.  Quite disappointed when we hit a log off Columbia and cracked my transducer.  It was down for several months....

Downsides to FLS.. Sometimes they will not work if there is heavy sediment in the water sometimes I was not able to get the depth for unto 5 minutes or so..  You can also get weird readings in fast currents with sediment in the water, or when looking into Prop Wash from a large vessel or tugboat.  But, you will get used to reading the prop wash with experience.

Ken Powers
Aquarius 
Super Maramu 262


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Hello Ian,

It would be nice to know how the Echo Pilot died.  What happened, how it happened?   We hit a log off Columbia, and had to replace the transducer.  I really missed the EchoPilot when it was INOP, and was nice to get it operational again.   It's nice to get more information than... it died.   Also, you say you "Wanted to replace it".  So, I would think with this statement, you thought at the time having the FLS was in a word... "worthwhile".  Then you write.... "talked with all the major electronics manufacturers, none of whom seemed enthused by the technology."  What does this mean?  You talked with all the manufacturers of FLS units and none were enthused with their technology?  They all told you you should not replace your FLS because they are all junk?  

Seems very interesting that all the FLS manufacturers would say this!  Sorry for the sarcasm, just can't help myself. 

Ken


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Ken Powers SV Aquarius
 

Justin,

No, I have not seen anything on their website, but had told them a year ago they could use any video they wanted from our YouTube channel.

Ken on Aquarius


Re: Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

Ian Townsend
 

We had an EchoPilot on our SM until it died two years ago. We wanted to replace it and talked with all the major electronics manufacturers, none of whom seemed enthused by the technology. So we have been without it since then including spending a lot of time in shallow and reef-laden waters. We don't miss it.

Ian
SM153
Loca Lola II



Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
Date: 2020-09-29 12:06 (GMT-05:00)
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Forward looking Sonar - Amel 54 - Furuno NavNet Plotter Network

You may find this a good read:

 

 

https://www.pbo.co.uk/gear/5-forward-looking-sonar-tested-29321

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us