Date   

Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

Duane Siegfri
 

Mark,

No worries, thanks for looking, it's much appreciated.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

greatketch@...
 

Everything Bill R said, and then some...

If I was in the market for a new genoa, I would immediately be concerned if I was asked what size genoa I wanted (130, 140, 150, etc).  If the sailmaker did not know what the size of the original sail was for this boat, I would find someone who did.  

At some point I would be sure to ask how the sail they intended to build would work with the Amel downwind poles. If they did not understand how those poles work, and did not know the sizes of the poles, I would go somewhere else. There is more to an Amel genoa than just size.  For example, the clew has to be at the right height for the downwind rig to work as it was designed.  I know this thread started with questions about upwind work, but we do a LOT more miles downwind than we do close hauled so downwind performance is important to me. 

It is likely a tall order to expect a random sailmaker to have a detailed understanding of how a Super Maramu is different from other boats they make sails for, and why just running off the dimensions in their rig database is NOT the right answer.  It is a tall order, but it is one I'll insist on.  

When I needed a new ballooner, I talked to several lofts, and got a LOT of responses that were some version of, "You need a WHAT?"  That would pretty much be the end of our discussion.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Bill,

Your supportive comments are appreciated. I always hesitate to post criticism of specific businesses but in this case the experience was a good illustration of the need to have properly designed and built sails. And after my unrelenting insistence Doyles did build me the sail I asked for in the first place. 

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl 

On 15 April 2018 at 01:28 "Bill Rouse brouse@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Danny,

Your experience with Doyle Sails doesn't surprise me. They also seem to be very ridgid in what they will do in other locations, as well. I believe that they feel that they know better than their customers. It is really a shame, but it is understandable that Doyle should know more than most of their customers...in your case, they didn't...and rope does not equal foam! I suspect that they purposefully reduce options to be able to streamline production in their low-cost production facilities. And, how can you blame them when 80% of sails are purchased based on a combination of brand and price.

The choice of sailmakers, sailcloth, construction, and options is complex and is not generally boat specific. It's a combination of boat, sailing destinations, owner preference, required life expectancy of the sails, and specific owner preferences. I believe all of Henri's choices for the original standard suite of 5 sails for the SM was perfect for the vast majority of world cruising SM owners, and I believe a few improvements could have been made on subsequent models for world cruising.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 14:35 Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hi Paul,

Going to windward, "more is less" in my opinion. Over-canvassed to windward is uncomfortable and inefficient. We have a heavy weather 90% jib with a high cut foot. Surprisingly going to windward In anything over 15 knots true it is as quick as the big genoa. But unless the windward work is long the effort of changing sails has me preferring to furl the genoa. .HOWEVER all sails are not created equal. I think this fact is partly why there are such differing opinions.

To have a genoa suitable to furl and use in strong winds to windward it needs to be made for the job. 1) The cloth must be heavy enough.Or be made of a robust fabric  2) The sailmaker needs to know what wind strength the sail will be used in, 3) the sail maker needs to know you intend to partly furl it for strong windward work. 3) The sail needs a properly designed foam padded luff. The cheap option of a rope sewn inside the luff is not acceptable.

Do the above and you will get a sail that will furl and retain a reasonable shape. Light cloth and no foam luff and you will have a sack, not a sail if you try to sail with it partly furled.

I gave Doyles in Auckland NZ these instructions when they made me a new genoa some years back. They used too light a cloth, and refused to put a foam luff in saying the rope option was just as good. The result: In light air up to 15 knots it was a beautiful sail. But in stronger wind a sail that distorted so badly they had to replace it. They fiddled around adjusting seams but in the end I had them on board in only 20 knots true and they gave up and made me a new sail. By the time it was made I was in Noumea and they had to ship it up to me.

Lastly, I agree with the comments regarding halyard tension and car position.

Regards

Danny. 

On 13 April 2018 at 22:48 "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


 

 

 

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul,

I would think you would change sails as often with a 130/155 combination as I do with a 90/155 and you would not have the advantage of a genuine heavy weather sail on board. The 130 would not replace the 155. If your 155 is towards the end of it's life I wonder if you should consider a new one along the lines I talked about. I furl all the time and once Doyles built me the right sail I got good results. Interestingly when my old 155 was over 40,000 miles old and well past its best I got better performance from the 90,even in 10 knots, other than down wind so it was used most of the time.

Kind Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


On 14 April 2018 at 21:54 "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill, Danny

Thank you for your input.
I know my genoa have room for improvement, maybe we invest in a new 130% genoa to use when sailing in areas where strong winds are common.  Do not fancy changing sails under way.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


 


Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

mfmcgovern@...
 

Duane,

I've looked pretty much everywhere on Cara but unfortunately, I have been unable to locate either my old sheaves or some better documentation from the purchase of new ones from Amel.  Sorry about that.

Again, I got my replacements from Amel for 29.10 Euros each in July 2017 so you should be able to get them from Maud in La Rochelle.

Mark
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

 

Danny,

Your experience with Doyle Sails doesn't surprise me. They also seem to be very ridgid in what they will do in other locations, as well. I believe that they feel that they know better than their customers. It is really a shame, but it is understandable that Doyle should know more than most of their customers...in your case, they didn't...and rope does not equal foam! I suspect that they purposefully reduce options to be able to streamline production in their low-cost production facilities. And, how can you blame them when 80% of sails are purchased based on a combination of brand and price.

The choice of sailmakers, sailcloth, construction, and options is complex and is not generally boat specific. It's a combination of boat, sailing destinations, owner preference, required life expectancy of the sails, and specific owner preferences. I believe all of Henri's choices for the original standard suite of 5 sails for the SM was perfect for the vast majority of world cruising SM owners, and I believe a few improvements could have been made on subsequent models for world cruising.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 14:35 Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Paul,

Going to windward, "more is less" in my opinion. Over-canvassed to windward is uncomfortable and inefficient. We have a heavy weather 90% jib with a high cut foot. Surprisingly going to windward In anything over 15 knots true it is as quick as the big genoa. But unless the windward work is long the effort of changing sails has me preferring to furl the genoa. .HOWEVER all sails are not created equal. I think this fact is partly why there are such differing opinions.

To have a genoa suitable to furl and use in strong winds to windward it needs to be made for the job. 1) The cloth must be heavy enough.Or be made of a robust fabric  2) The sailmaker needs to know what wind strength the sail will be used in, 3) the sail maker needs to know you intend to partly furl it for strong windward work. 3) The sail needs a properly designed foam padded luff. The cheap option of a rope sewn inside the luff is not acceptable.

Do the above and you will get a sail that will furl and retain a reasonable shape. Light cloth and no foam luff and you will have a sack, not a sail if you try to sail with it partly furled.

I gave Doyles in Auckland NZ these instructions when they made me a new genoa some years back. They used too light a cloth, and refused to put a foam luff in saying the rope option was just as good. The result: In light air up to 15 knots it was a beautiful sail. But in stronger wind a sail that distorted so badly they had to replace it. They fiddled around adjusting seams but in the end I had them on board in only 20 knots true and they gave up and made me a new sail. By the time it was made I was in Noumea and they had to ship it up to me.

Lastly, I agree with the comments regarding halyard tension and car position.

Regards

Danny. 

On 13 April 2018 at 22:48 "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

 

Eric, Duane, and others:

I changed mine and I am 99% sure that the axel was 10mm. (10mm = 3/8")


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


On Fri, Apr 13, 2018, 11:24 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Duane,

The size of the hole in the sheave is probably metric.

I don’t recall where you are but it might be difficult to get it in the USA or English speaking countries.

I believe they are not expensive and I would go with Maud.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 8:55 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

 

 

Eric,

 

I have not written Maude yet.  I was hoping Mark might be able to inform me of the sizes.  If Mark doesn't have the information, then I'll probably just go up and retrieve the sheaves and axle, bring them down and measure them.  There don't seem to be that many sizes of sheaves, so I may have to order from Maude anyway.

 

That's not so high on my priority list right now though.  I'm about 70% of the way through an all new electronics suite, although right now I'm sitting in a hotel room while the boat is being fumigated.  We have (hopefully "had") a rat on board and after trying to trap him for a month with every conceivable bait we finally went nuclear with fumigation.

 

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

karkauai
 

Hi Paul.
I have a 110% Genoa with a high cut clew.  It is plenty in 20-40 kt winds.  My 135% Genoa works OK in lighter air, but I wish I'd gotten the 150%.  I think with the luff foam it would be fine in up to 25kts.
If you are going with only one Genoa, the 135 is OK. If it's going to be your heavy weather jib, I'd go with a 90-110%.

Kent
S/V Kristy
Bill, Danny
Thank you for your input.
I know my genoa have room for improvement, maybe we invest in a new 130% genoa to use when sailing in areas where strong winds are common.  Do not fancy changing sails under way.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

Paul Osterberg
 

Bill, Danny
Thank you for your input.
I know my genoa have room for improvement, maybe we invest in a new 130% genoa to use when sailing in areas where strong winds are common.  Do not fancy changing sails under way.
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: Flushing the AC system with Barnacle Buster

rossirossix4
 

We have a shutoff ball valve between the manifold and the watermaker.  It makes fresh water or solution rinsing of the other components easier and it is also protection against any freshwater backup into the generator should you have a small leak from the 3-way watermaker flushing valve and the seachest seacock closed (this has happened to several Amel owners).  So if you are using Barnacle Buster it would be good protection for the watermaker and make the process easier.  It also allows you to leave the watermaker feed pump and feed hose in fresh water by letting the fresh water flush reverse into the manifold (keep the seachest seacock open) and then shutting off.  We feel it is a good addition to the Amel system.   On occasion I forget to open it when desalinating water but lack of pressure in the low pressure gauge is an immediate indication--we always look at this to make sure that the feed pump is operating and of course there are 2 minutes or so before the high pressure pump begins operation.  Easy to add, and worth consideration we think.

Bob and Suzanne, KAIMI SM 429 Malta


Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

I have known a couple of people who have had masthead sheaves for various boats made to measure by these people.  They all seem to have been satisfied...

http://isheaves.com/

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas


B&G Hydra Processor and Sonic Speed Processor

Duane Siegfri
 

I have the B&G Hydra Processor and the Sonic Speed Processor on Ebay now with a $150 "buy it now" price if anyone is interested.  The Hydra just came back from B&G with new batteries for the circuit boards EPROM.


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

James Alton
 

Bill,

   That was an amazing post, chock full of useful information and very well written.  Thanks for sharing.

James

SV Sueño
Maramu #220


   

On Apr 13, 2018, at 12:44 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Paul,


If you really can't carry the full genoa in more than 20 knots of APPARENT wind while close hauled, I would imagine there is something rather wrong with that sail's shape.  That should be 14 knots of true wind--or even a little less.  Something seems quite out of order.  That should not be a struggle for an AMEL SM.  Those numbers are far enough outside my experience I do not consider them a valid argument for retro-fitting a staysail.

On our boat, sailing close-hauled, as the wind picks up our first reaction is to furl away the mainsail at 23 knots of apparent wind or so, and carry on with full jib and mizzen.  The first reef into the jib we think about at 26 knots of apparent wind, and the second at 29-31 knots apparent.  Sea conditions also have a lot to do with the exact point at which we reef.

There is a multipart, and complex answer to how we go upwind in stronger winds.  Of course all boats start to lose some pointing ability once they start getting thrown around by waves and strong winds. But the ability to sail away from leeward dangers--even in strong winds--is a key aspect of boat safety.  We have never (yet!) felt like we were over-canvased without an option to make things better. 

It's important to in a discussion like this to be a bit rigorous with numbers.  It is easy for people's expectations to be quite divergent.  I expect in "easy" conditions for our boat's COG to be about 50-55º off the true wind.  We have never had a case where we were not able to have a COG better than 60º off the true wind.

My first comment on upwind performance is an admittedly smart-ass one:  Don't do that!  We will go very far out of our way, and wait a long time to avoid a lengthy beat to windward in 25+ knots.  But of course... stuff happens, and sometimes we are left with no choice.

We have been quite successful in making way working tightly closehauled in true winds of 25+ knots.  Most recently coming south in Buzzards Bay after exiting the Cape Cod Canal. We were making better VMG--much more comfortably--sailing at 58º to the true wind than we could motoring straight into a very nasty, very short, very steep chop. We did not feel at all like we were struggling at the limits of what the boat was  capable of, but higher winds than that, we haven't had the "pleasure" of needing to work upwind in.

Our genoa has a foam padded luff that appears to be well designed because we maintain a reasonable shape as we reef down. Without some way of "bulking up" the luff, sail shape goes all to heck as it is rolled. With a baggy headsail, upwind performance drops dramatically.

For sailing upwind in strong winds, even before you reef, be sure your jib halyard tension is sufficient.  Tightening the halyard counteracts the stretch in the sail that moves the draft back as the wind increases forces on the sail.  A draft too far aft is not immediately obvious to casual observation, but is does have a serious negative impact on your ability to make good progress to windward.  Jib halyard tension is an sailing adjustment, not something to "set and forget." 

For best upwind performance correct adjustment of the jib sheet lead position is critical.  Any  part of the sail from top to bottom that is not pulling evenly is just dragging you sideways. This is very much worth the effort to fuss with and get as close to perfect as you can.

As the genoa reefs, and the sheet lead moves forward, the effective sheeting angle widens a little bit.  That means the sail won't point quite as high, but... it also means the sail generates more power to punch through the bigger waves.

As the winds pick up, the boat's sailing balance needs to be managed. In strong winds, we typically sail with jib and mizzen.  If you try to sail with headsail only, you will likely experience a good deal of leehelm.  That will seriously impede progress to windward, and dragging the rudder through the water offset 10º or 20º will slow the boat down.  We use the mizzen not to generate extra boat speed, but to balance the boat so our helm is either neutral or with a little weather helm. Makes life a lot easier for the autopilot, too.

If we expect to be sailing in strong winds regularly, especially upwind, we have a smaller working jib that we use to replace the genoa.  A "Yankee" style sail with a high cut clew.  Great upwind, not so much downwind.  We used it extensively when we were working our way east in the Caribbean and it was very helpful.

I have always liked sailing a well designed cutter. I spent a fair amount of time sailing a Cabo Rico 38, and it was a sweet sailing boat.  But a cutter is most certainly NOT just a sloop with an extra stay added.  The mast is further back and usually shorter, the main sail is smaller, (usually) the headstay is out on a bowsprit, etc.  Cutters were developed not because they made it easy to carry smaller sails.  They come from the day when all sails were hanked on, so all sail changes were pretty much the same.  They were developed so that a boat could carry a big head sail WAY out in front, yet still be well balanced in strong winds when the mainsail was reefed.  On a well designed cutter, it is a piece of cake to tack even a large genoa with the inner forestay in place, if you know how.

In my opinion, an Amel SM does not make a good cutter.  It does not need staysail to balance as you reduce sail--the ketch rig takes care of it.  The distance between the mast and headstay is too small to fit a proper staysail and still leave room to tack the genoa, and the hull and rig were not designed to carry the loads. 

That was way more than I meant to write...  Sorry to be so long winded...

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas

 
---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Sorry, forgot to put SM 299 Ocean Pearl in my signature to the below post. 

Regards

Danny



Hi Paul,

Going to windward, "more is less" in my opinion. Over-canvassed to windward is uncomfortable and inefficient. We have a heavy weather 90% jib with a high cut foot. Surprisingly going to windward In anything over 15 knots true it is as quick as the big genoa. But unless the windward work is long the effort of changing sails has me preferring to furl the genoa. .HOWEVER all sails are not created equal. I think this fact is partly why there are such differing opinions.

To have a genoa suitable to furl and use in strong winds to windward it needs to be made for the job. 1) The cloth must be heavy enough.Or be made of a robust fabric  2) The sailmaker needs to know what wind strength the sail will be used in, 3) the sail maker needs to know you intend to partly furl it for strong windward work. 3) The sail needs a properly designed foam padded luff. The cheap option of a rope sewn inside the luff is not acceptable.

Do the above and you will get a sail that will furl and retain a reasonable shape. Light cloth and no foam luff and you will have a sack, not a sail if you try to sail with it partly furled.

I gave Doyles in Auckland NZ these instructions when they made me a new genoa some years back. They used too light a cloth, and refused to put a foam luff in saying the rope option was just as good. The result: In light air up to 15 knots it was a beautiful sail. But in stronger wind a sail that distorted so badly they had to replace it. They fiddled around adjusting seams but in the end I had them on board in only 20 knots true and they gave up and made me a new sail. By the time it was made I was in Noumea and they had to ship it up to me.

Lastly, I agree with the comments regarding halyard tension and car position.

Regards

Danny. 

On 13 April 2018 at 22:48 "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Paul,

Going to windward, "more is less" in my opinion. Over-canvassed to windward is uncomfortable and inefficient. We have a heavy weather 90% jib with a high cut foot. Surprisingly going to windward In anything over 15 knots true it is as quick as the big genoa. But unless the windward work is long the effort of changing sails has me preferring to furl the genoa. .HOWEVER all sails are not created equal. I think this fact is partly why there are such differing opinions.

To have a genoa suitable to furl and use in strong winds to windward it needs to be made for the job. 1) The cloth must be heavy enough.Or be made of a robust fabric  2) The sailmaker needs to know what wind strength the sail will be used in, 3) the sail maker needs to know you intend to partly furl it for strong windward work. 3) The sail needs a properly designed foam padded luff. The cheap option of a rope sewn inside the luff is not acceptable.

Do the above and you will get a sail that will furl and retain a reasonable shape. Light cloth and no foam luff and you will have a sack, not a sail if you try to sail with it partly furled.

I gave Doyles in Auckland NZ these instructions when they made me a new genoa some years back. They used too light a cloth, and refused to put a foam luff in saying the rope option was just as good. The result: In light air up to 15 knots it was a beautiful sail. But in stronger wind a sail that distorted so badly they had to replace it. They fiddled around adjusting seams but in the end I had them on board in only 20 knots true and they gave up and made me a new sail. By the time it was made I was in Noumea and they had to ship it up to me.

Lastly, I agree with the comments regarding halyard tension and car position.

Regards

Danny. 

On 13 April 2018 at 22:48 "osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flushing the AC system with Barnacle Buster

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Thanks Mark for the detailed explanation.
 
Respectfully;
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 



From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 10:47 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Flushing the AC system with Barnacle Buster

 

Mohammad and Aty,

Hope this helps…

I use barnacle buster to flush the air-conditioning system. As others have mentioned this is basically a phosphoric acid solution. For the engine and genset I prefer to dissemble the heat exchangers and clean the various components away from the engine.   I prefer not to put acid in the strainer to clean the engine/genset as this is all connected to the water-maker.

On the 53SM the air-conditioning is cooled by circulating saltwater in one loop to all three units. The aft unit is first in the cooling cycle the forward unit is last. I am uncertain if other Amel models have the same set up. To flush the air-conditioning cooling system: I disconnect the outlet hose from the 220v air-conditioning cooling pump (this is the blue Calpeda pump if you have original equipment).  This would be the INPUT hose to the AC cooling loop. I then disconnect the hose from the through-hull in the forward cabin. This would be the OUTPUT hose of the AC cooling system. I make one continuous loop with a pump and these two ends. I set up a bucket in engine room that will have a hose (with filter) to a 220v water pump (I purchased a continuous run impeller sump pump from a hardware store with water hose connections and a regular water hose to make the loop). The pumps out hookup it is connected to the INPUT hose in the AC loop. Then I run a hose from the OUTPUT through the boat back to the engine room and into the bucket thus completing the loop. I add the Barnacle Buster Concentrate to the bucket according to the instructions and assume there is about 2 gallons of water in the system. Make sure a large fan is running to vent the engine room or place the bucket in the cockpit. It is not good to breathe the fumes. I run the pump for about 4-6 hours and flush the system. The longer the better. The cycle: Bucket – Pump – AC INPUT – AC unit 1 – AC unit 2 – AC unit 3 – AC OUTPUT – Bucket. It is truly amazing what comes out and makes its way to the bucket. I made a mesh filter to catch bits from the return hose so the solids do not re-circulate.  When done, reconnect the hose ends to the through hull and AC cooling pump. Turn on the air-conditioning to flush out any remaining barnacle buster.

This is pretty much an all day project and best done when at dock.

With best regards,

Mark

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:30 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

Hi Porter;

Can you please explain how you run the barnacle buster through the systems. I'm interested in the exact process you use. Also since this is an acid, does any one have any input on the potential down side?

Respectfully;

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

Hi Mark and Debbie. 

This is exercised induced angina!  I agree with Mohammad and Aty but also consider that 

in short, could you have calcium build up in the non Volvo raw water side?  I’d disconnect the water maker (mark of cream puffs sage insight) . Run acid (barnacle buster) through the ac/ refrigeration and Onan systems and see what comes out then flush.   I see improvement in our  systems when I run barnacle buster, things get colder more quickly. Use less power. And I also see lots of calcium come out!  

Minutes later....

Upon further reflection. I’d really have a close look at the raw water distributer and everything that connects the high pressure pump to the Seachest. 

Hope you guys are well. 

Porter. 

Ibis 54-152. 

Iles de saintes. 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Apr 11, 2018, at 1:53 AM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Brass;

Each of the systems you are running together require a healthy source of raw water to run. At the end of the season we run fresh water through all systems. We run each system individually so we can keep up with water demand. We accomplish this by shutting off the main sea water valve, removing the sea chest cover and using a 3/4 inch hose to supply the fresh water. We can run all systems individually with just one 3/4 inch hose at full flow. However, the Volvo running at idle requires more water than the single hose can provide. Therefore we use two hoses and by reducing one down to half flow, we can keep a constant water level in the sea chest.

The point being that the Volvo at 1250 RPMs (much more water requirement than at idle), the A/C and water maker running together will require a large flow of raw water. I would start by looking at anything that could restrict this flow. From the raw water valve not opening completely when you turn the valve, a rubber supply hose failure on the inside, a kink in the line, etc. I would also try shutting off the main sea water chest valve, remove the raw water supply to the LP Dessalator pump and turn on the sea water valve to see what kind of flow you are getting to the LP pump.

Respectfully;

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

We have an A54 with a 230v 160 LPH Dessalator, water cooled air conditioning, and a Volvo 110 HP engine. 

1) When operating the Onan, water maker, and the Volvo above approximately 1250 RPM the low-pressure gauge on the water maker drops from 20 psi to negative 10” hg, the high-pressure pump starves, and the water maker shuts down.

2) When operating the Onan & water maker everything operates correctly IF the air-conditioning is started first.  If the water maker is started before the air conditioner when the water maker is started the low-pressure pump pressure drops and the water maker shuts down due to low-output pressure on the high-pressure pump.

All tests were run with a clean sea strainer and a clean raw water intake pipe, it was scrubbed with a round brush that reaches through the hull.

What has been your experience?  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

Mark & Debbie Mueller

A54 – 68

Brass Ring

Ft. Lauderdale


Flushing the AC system with Barnacle Buster

Mark Erdos
 

Mohammad and Aty,

 

Hope this helps…

 

 

I use barnacle buster to flush the air-conditioning system. As others have mentioned this is basically a phosphoric acid solution. For the engine and genset I prefer to dissemble the heat exchangers and clean the various components away from the engine.   I prefer not to put acid in the strainer to clean the engine/genset as this is all connected to the water-maker.

 

On the 53SM the air-conditioning is cooled by circulating saltwater in one loop to all three units. The aft unit is first in the cooling cycle the forward unit is last. I am uncertain if other Amel models have the same set up. To flush the air-conditioning cooling system: I disconnect the outlet hose from the 220v air-conditioning cooling pump (this is the blue Calpeda pump if you have original equipment).  This would be the INPUT hose to the AC cooling loop. I then disconnect the hose from the through-hull in the forward cabin. This would be the OUTPUT hose of the AC cooling system. I make one continuous loop with a pump and these two ends. I set up a bucket in engine room that will have a hose (with filter) to a 220v water pump (I purchased a continuous run impeller sump pump from a hardware store with water hose connections and a regular water hose to make the loop). The pumps out hookup it is connected to the INPUT hose in the AC loop. Then I run a hose from the OUTPUT through the boat back to the engine room and into the bucket thus completing the loop. I add the Barnacle Buster Concentrate to the bucket according to the instructions and assume there is about 2 gallons of water in the system. Make sure a large fan is running to vent the engine room or place the bucket in the cockpit. It is not good to breathe the fumes. I run the pump for about 4-6 hours and flush the system. The longer the better. The cycle: Bucket – Pump – AC INPUT – AC unit 1 – AC unit 2 – AC unit 3 – AC OUTPUT – Bucket. It is truly amazing what comes out and makes its way to the bucket. I made a mesh filter to catch bits from the return hose so the solids do not re-circulate.  When done, reconnect the hose ends to the through hull and AC cooling pump. Turn on the air-conditioning to flush out any remaining barnacle buster.

 

This is pretty much an all day project and best done when at dock.

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Guadeloupe

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 10:30 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

 

Hi Porter;

 

Can you please explain how you run the barnacle buster through the systems. I'm interested in the exact process you use. Also since this is an acid, does any one have any input on the potential down side?

 

Respectfully;

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:32 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

Hi Mark and Debbie. 

 

This is exercised induced angina!  I agree with Mohammad and Aty but also consider that 

in short, could you have calcium build up in the non Volvo raw water side?  I’d disconnect the water maker (mark of cream puffs sage insight) . Run acid (barnacle buster) through the ac/ refrigeration and Onan systems and see what comes out then flush.   I see improvement in our  systems when I run barnacle buster, things get colder more quickly. Use less power. And I also see lots of calcium come out!  

 

Minutes later....

Upon further reflection. I’d really have a close look at the raw water distributer and everything that connects the high pressure pump to the Seachest. 

 

Hope you guys are well. 

 

Porter. 

Ibis 54-152. 

Iles de saintes. 

 

 

 

Excuse the errors.  

Sent from my IPhone 


On Apr 11, 2018, at 1:53 AM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Brass;

 

Each of the systems you are running together require a healthy source of raw water to run. At the end of the season we run fresh water through all systems. We run each system individually so we can keep up with water demand. We accomplish this by shutting off the main sea water valve, removing the sea chest cover and using a 3/4 inch hose to supply the fresh water. We can run all systems individually with just one 3/4 inch hose at full flow. However, the Volvo running at idle requires more water than the single hose can provide. Therefore we use two hoses and by reducing one down to half flow, we can keep a constant water level in the sea chest.

 

The point being that the Volvo at 1250 RPMs (much more water requirement than at idle), the A/C and water maker running together will require a large flow of raw water. I would start by looking at anything that could restrict this flow. From the raw water valve not opening completely when you turn the valve, a rubber supply hose failure on the inside, a kink in the line, etc. I would also try shutting off the main sea water chest valve, remove the raw water supply to the LP Dessalator pump and turn on the sea water valve to see what kind of flow you are getting to the LP pump.

 

Respectfully;

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 7:17 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Dessalator Operational Question

 

 

We have an A54 with a 230v 160 LPH Dessalator, water cooled air conditioning, and a Volvo 110 HP engine. 

 

1) When operating the Onan, water maker, and the Volvo above approximately 1250 RPM the low-pressure gauge on the water maker drops from 20 psi to negative 10” hg, the high-pressure pump starves, and the water maker shuts down.

 

2) When operating the Onan & water maker everything operates correctly IF the air-conditioning is started first.  If the water maker is started before the air conditioner when the water maker is started the low-pressure pump pressure drops and the water maker shuts down due to low-output pressure on the high-pressure pump.

 

All tests were run with a clean sea strainer and a clean raw water intake pipe, it was scrubbed with a round brush that reaches through the hull.

 

What has been your experience?  Any thoughts?  Thanks in advance.

 

Mark & Debbie Mueller

A54 – 68

Brass Ring

Ft. Lauderdale

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Forestay on Super Maramu

greatketch@...
 

Paul,

If you really can't carry the full genoa in more than 20 knots of APPARENT wind while close hauled, I would imagine there is something rather wrong with that sail's shape.  That should be 14 knots of true wind--or even a little less.  Something seems quite out of order.  That should not be a struggle for an AMEL SM.  Those numbers are far enough outside my experience I do not consider them a valid argument for retro-fitting a staysail.

On our boat, sailing close-hauled, as the wind picks up our first reaction is to furl away the mainsail at 23 knots of apparent wind or so, and carry on with full jib and mizzen.  The first reef into the jib we think about at 26 knots of apparent wind, and the second at 29-31 knots apparent.  Sea conditions also have a lot to do with the exact point at which we reef.

There is a multipart, and complex answer to how we go upwind in stronger winds.  Of course all boats start to lose some pointing ability once they start getting thrown around by waves and strong winds. But the ability to sail away from leeward dangers--even in strong winds--is a key aspect of boat safety.  We have never (yet!) felt like we were over-canvased without an option to make things better. 

It's important to in a discussion like this to be a bit rigorous with numbers.  It is easy for people's expectations to be quite divergent.  I expect in "easy" conditions for our boat's COG to be about 50-55º off the true wind.  We have never had a case where we were not able to have a COG better than 60º off the true wind.

My first comment on upwind performance is an admittedly smart-ass one:  Don't do that!  We will go very far out of our way, and wait a long time to avoid a lengthy beat to windward in 25+ knots.  But of course... stuff happens, and sometimes we are left with no choice.

We have been quite successful in making way working tightly closehauled in true winds of 25+ knots.  Most recently coming south in Buzzards Bay after exiting the Cape Cod Canal. We were making better VMG--much more comfortably--sailing at 58º to the true wind than we could motoring straight into a very nasty, very short, very steep chop. We did not feel at all like we were struggling at the limits of what the boat was  capable of, but higher winds than that, we haven't had the "pleasure" of needing to work upwind in.

Our genoa has a foam padded luff that appears to be well designed because we maintain a reasonable shape as we reef down. Without some way of "bulking up" the luff, sail shape goes all to heck as it is rolled. With a baggy headsail, upwind performance drops dramatically.

For sailing upwind in strong winds, even before you reef, be sure your jib halyard tension is sufficient.  Tightening the halyard counteracts the stretch in the sail that moves the draft back as the wind increases forces on the sail.  A draft too far aft is not immediately obvious to casual observation, but is does have a serious negative impact on your ability to make good progress to windward.  Jib halyard tension is an sailing adjustment, not something to "set and forget." 

For best upwind performance correct adjustment of the jib sheet lead position is critical.  Any  part of the sail from top to bottom that is not pulling evenly is just dragging you sideways. This is very much worth the effort to fuss with and get as close to perfect as you can.

As the genoa reefs, and the sheet lead moves forward, the effective sheeting angle widens a little bit.  That means the sail won't point quite as high, but... it also means the sail generates more power to punch through the bigger waves.

As the winds pick up, the boat's sailing balance needs to be managed. In strong winds, we typically sail with jib and mizzen.  If you try to sail with headsail only, you will likely experience a good deal of leehelm.  That will seriously impede progress to windward, and dragging the rudder through the water offset 10º or 20º will slow the boat down.  We use the mizzen not to generate extra boat speed, but to balance the boat so our helm is either neutral or with a little weather helm. Makes life a lot easier for the autopilot, too.

If we expect to be sailing in strong winds regularly, especially upwind, we have a smaller working jib that we use to replace the genoa.  A "Yankee" style sail with a high cut clew.  Great upwind, not so much downwind.  We used it extensively when we were working our way east in the Caribbean and it was very helpful.

I have always liked sailing a well designed cutter. I spent a fair amount of time sailing a Cabo Rico 38, and it was a sweet sailing boat.  But a cutter is most certainly NOT just a sloop with an extra stay added.  The mast is further back and usually shorter, the main sail is smaller, (usually) the headstay is out on a bowsprit, etc.  Cutters were developed not because they made it easy to carry smaller sails.  They come from the day when all sails were hanked on, so all sail changes were pretty much the same.  They were developed so that a boat could carry a big head sail WAY out in front, yet still be well balanced in strong winds when the mainsail was reefed.  On a well designed cutter, it is a piece of cake to tack even a large genoa with the inner forestay in place, if you know how.

In my opinion, an Amel SM does not make a good cutter.  It does not need staysail to balance as you reduce sail--the ketch rig takes care of it.  The distance between the mast and headstay is too small to fit a proper staysail and still leave room to tack the genoa, and the hull and rig were not designed to carry the loads. 

That was way more than I meant to write...  Sorry to be so long winded...

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Great Guana Cay, Abacos, Bahamas

 
---In amelyachtowners@..., <osterberg.paul.l@...> wrote :

Hello!

I’m curious how do you without a stay sail go upwind in true wind exceeding 25 knots, with occasional gusts of +30 knots, in reasonable comfort. We go comfortable up wind in 20 knots apparent wind with the full Genoa, but if gusts exceeding 24 knots apparent we are definitely over canvased. therefore we start to furl just before 20 knots apparent wind. When we encounter apparent wind of 30 knots we found very poor up wind performance with the Genoa heavily furled and VMG is very poor.

.

 

Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

eric freedman
 

Duane,

The size of the hole in the sheave is probably metric.

I don’t recall where you are but it might be difficult to get it in the USA or English speaking countries.

I believe they are not expensive and I would go with Maud.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 8:55 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Jib Halyard Sheave

 

 

Eric,

 

I have not written Maude yet.  I was hoping Mark might be able to inform me of the sizes.  If Mark doesn't have the information, then I'll probably just go up and retrieve the sheaves and axle, bring them down and measure them.  There don't seem to be that many sizes of sheaves, so I may have to order from Maude anyway.

 

That's not so high on my priority list right now though.  I'm about 70% of the way through an all new electronics suite, although right now I'm sitting in a hotel room while the boat is being fumigated.  We have (hopefully "had") a rat on board and after trying to trap him for a month with every conceivable bait we finally went nuclear with fumigation.

 

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

 

 


"Bird Cage" TV Antenna

Duane Siegfri
 

Just an FYI -


Our TV reception has always been terrible, to the point we don't bother turning it on.  While installing a new masthead wind/weather station I removed it, and disassembled it on deck. After taking off the white plastic shroud I found the guts completely rusted out.  There is a mild steel plate inside that the "bird cage" is connected to, and that plate is then connected to the antenna wire.  With the mild steel plate completely rusted there is no connection, thus no antenna.  After all, it is 12 years old in a marine environment. 


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477