Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Bill,  thanks for the response.  I appreciate  the information on the Victron  controller.  It is on my list to take a deeper dive into exactly how it works.  And perhaps when the boat minder came and measured the voltage each month (And took a photo) the 27.2 was reflecting the absorption level, not the subsequent float at a lower temperature adjusted level? 

The batteries are DEKA DC31DT "Marine Master" deep cycle lead acid, with "Low antimony, low maintenance grids."  You have to peel off the battery label to access the flush caps on the top, and there was not an obvious maintenance schedule innthe product information.  

I do understand that the xantrex measures current flow, but it also measures the voltage, which is another indicator of state of charge.  That is why I think tracking amp/hr usage overnight and the morning  voltage before the sun significantly kicks in might give me some reasonable objective data.  At the same time, I recognise that the morning voltage the xantrex shows is from the battery under a load, so it cannot be direct reflection of state of charge.  As for individual battery performance, that seems to require measuring each battery separately with a battery tester, which I only do every couple of months.  

I will also look into the desulphating process as well.

Going back to the MPPT behavior: my first thought would be to see if the controller could be set to only the float level?   If tjat is not possible, then perhaps leaving something that would only use enough current over night to allow the batteries to absorb that initial morning bulk/absorption period befire the battery then goes to float.

Thanks and regards, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM#387, sv BeBe

 


On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

Dan,


Your Victron MPPT controller should automatically adjust the charge and float voltage for a changing ambient temperature, or at least mine does. It reduces the voltage by 0.0325V for every degree C increase in temperature above 25C.  That's not an adjustable number on my controller, but is pretty close to most manufacturers recommendations. 

My Victron MPPT controller would not be well suited to floating a totally unloaded battery for long periods.  Every morning it would switch to the higher voltage bulk and then then absorption charge for an hour.  If the battery had no overnight loads, over 6 months, this might explain why your batteries lost water.

I am not sure what kind of batteries you have but your recommendation about needing to add water to sealed batteries needs to be VERY narrowly applied.  If you open up an AGM, gel, or any other kind of valve regulated battery it will be ruined.

Be careful about interpreting the charge level from a meter like the Xantrex.  It is not really measuring the batteries state of charge.  It is only measuring the amount of power used, and dividing by what you told it the battery capacity is. By way of example, if you tell it you have a 400Amp-hr battery bank, and you pull 100 Amps out, it will say the batteries are 75% charged.  If the batteries have lost 50% of their capacity and are now 200Amp-hour and are REALLY at 50%, the Xantrex still will tell you they are 75% charged.  In short, the "Charge Level" from the Xantrex is telling you nothing at all about the current capacity of your batteries.  

"Sealed" batteries you generally can not equalized.  Since you have already opened yours up, I would investigate an equalizing (or "desulphating") charge, if your charger can do it.  This is especially true if you are seeing differences in performance of the batteries across the bank.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi All,   I am still processing all of my learnings from our 1st hurricane season on the hard in Trinidad with BeBe, but I will add my specific experience with batteries as it is appropriate to this thread. 

Twelve new DECA group 31 105 amp/hr, 650CCA, "Sealed" lead acid marine batteries were installed on VBeBe in December 2016 (so only 6 months old when we hauled).  
- I checked all the batteries at the time of haul out and all checked out "ok" with full charge and over 600CCA on my battery tester. 
- The batteries were floated at 27.2v all summer, during the day, with solar panels (Victron Energy Blue Solar MPPT) - the boat minder sent photos each month of the charge level on the xantrex. 
- On return at the end of November the tester showed full charge level, but CCA's measured were in the high 400's to low 500's. Significantly worse then how I had left them.  Seven were flagged as "failing".  
- I peeled back the seals over the caps and checked the cells and the water levels were just millimeters above the plates (several cells had the very top of the plates exposed.)   I refilled the cells with distilled water to the proper fill level.  This consumed nearly 4 gallons of water for 12 batteries!! 
- Since then I have charged each morning and evening with the 100amp charger to 100%, with the solar being close to maintaining charge during the day. 
- With two refrigerators and  one freezer running, plus a few lights, sometimes a fan we will use approx 50 - 60 amp hours from 9pm until 7am.    The Xantrex shows that as approx 92% remaining charge.  The voltage (with about 4-5 amp/hr load will be at about 24.8-24.9volts at 7am.  (not sure how that compares to actually charge remaining, as it is not a 'resting' voltage measurement. 
- After two weeks of this cycling of the batteries I retested all of the "bad" batteries and the CCA had increased by more that 50, so that all are now near or above 550CCA.   

Those are the facts, here are some of my thoughts: 
1)  At first I thought that I had totally toasted my nearly new battery bank (very  depressing start to season!), but I have been very relieved with the recovery.  I'm not sure how to estimate the damage that has been done. 
2) Hindsight and research seems to confirm that 27.2 volts is to high a float voltage for the hot tropics.  There are some calculations that can be done and then I need to research how I can adjust my MPPT controller for the next summer.   Other's experience?  Float levels used in tropics for long term storage?
 I realized that although I was monitoring my batteries with the Xantrex every day (morning & evening) I was not writing anything down, and in fact I have not seen much discussion about what are the critical parameters to monitor and record to have objective data on performance.   I am now trying to record the morning levels (before sun hits the panels).  I record from the Xantrex, the voltage, the accumulated CCA (I've ended each day so far with a charge of 98-100%.  I hope that this will allow me to more accurately track the performance.   Would like to hear what others record and see any factual sharing/comparing of performance.  What guidelines do you use for sulfanation decisions, etc. 
3) Sealed, maintenance free lead acid batteries are a miss-nomer.  Watch the water level in them as well.  

I am sure that there is much more to learn in this area.  I will also share learnings in other areas (moisture  control, pest control, checklists, when I have time to process them)

Regards,  Dan &  Lori Carlson,  SM#387,  sv BeBe 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

I shoud write ASCO Red Hat.

VLADIMIR
SM 345

On Dec 13, 2017 17:59, "Vladimir Sonsev" <sonsev52@...> wrote:
US company  RedHead makes good solenoid valves for this application. I was using one with manual override. That is good feature for very bad situation.

Vladimir
SM 346 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Dec 12, 2017 12:42, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?
Regards, Alex
AMEL54#15, NO STRESS


On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

US company  RedHead makes good solenoid valves for this application. I was using one with manual override. That is good feature for very bad situation.

Vladimir
SM 346 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Dec 12, 2017 12:42, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?
Regards, Alex
AMEL54#15, NO STRESS


On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

eric freedman
 

Pat,

Do you have 24 volts at the solenoid when the gas switch is turned on?

If not you could have a bad circuit breaker or a bad switch on the electrical panel.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:44 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Eric , My switch does not light up , no gas . Is that necessarily the solenoid , could it be the power source ? I had damage to electrical equipment and I believe the electrical source is from a small , square , I am guessing transformer located in the compartment above the galley. I believe 24v feeds it , but don't get a reading coming out. Can anyone confirm that this is the power source, Should the switch lite up even with a bad solenoid , or does that indicate a bad switch ?

Thanks,

Pat SM#123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:30 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

Alex,

I changed my solenoid to a USA made solenoid.

It is very easy to get and the pipes fit up to it quite nicely.

I  think you are a few boats away from Kimberlite on the Ponton.

.Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?

Regards, Alex

AMEL54#15, NO STRESS

 

 

On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill,
I taped out the side tracks and applied several coats of varnish to the entire veneer , including edges , I don't think it should fail and it really never gets wet. If I went to the trouble of taking the door out , I think I would replace it with another door or modify the original with a clear panel to allow light in and a view out , I have often thought to do that. If I ever do , I will keep your removal method in mind , I would never remove the dodger to remove the door.
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 
It is certainly possible to do it that way, and I considered it.  But... of necessity, the method leaves areas under the tracks (and the edges of the plywood) unfinished. That makes it impossible to keep water out from under the finish and the edges of the veneer and that makes a shorter lived repair.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

greatketch@...
 

It is certainly possible to do it that way, and I considered it.  But... of necessity, the method leaves areas under the tracks (and the edges of the plywood) unfinished. That makes it impossible to keep water out from under the finish and the edges of the veneer and that makes a shorter lived repair.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

greatketch@...
 

Dan,

Your Victron MPPT controller should automatically adjust the charge and float voltage for a changing ambient temperature, or at least mine does. It reduces the voltage by 0.0325V for every degree C increase in temperature above 25C.  That's not an adjustable number on my controller, but is pretty close to most manufacturers recommendations. 

My Victron MPPT controller would not be well suited to floating a totally unloaded battery for long periods.  Every morning it would switch to the higher voltage bulk and then then absorption charge for an hour.  If the battery had no overnight loads, over 6 months, this might explain why your batteries lost water.

I am not sure what kind of batteries you have but your recommendation about needing to add water to sealed batteries needs to be VERY narrowly applied.  If you open up an AGM, gel, or any other kind of valve regulated battery it will be ruined.

Be careful about interpreting the charge level from a meter like the Xantrex.  It is not really measuring the batteries state of charge.  It is only measuring the amount of power used, and dividing by what you told it the battery capacity is. By way of example, if you tell it you have a 400Amp-hr battery bank, and you pull 100 Amps out, it will say the batteries are 75% charged.  If the batteries have lost 50% of their capacity and are now 200Amp-hour and are REALLY at 50%, the Xantrex still will tell you they are 75% charged.  In short, the "Charge Level" from the Xantrex is telling you nothing at all about the current capacity of your batteries.  

"Sealed" batteries you generally can not equalized.  Since you have already opened yours up, I would investigate an equalizing (or "desulphating") charge, if your charger can do it.  This is especially true if you are seeing differences in performance of the batteries across the bank.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <dancarlson367@...> wrote :

Hi All,   I am still processing all of my learnings from our 1st hurricane season on the hard in Trinidad with BeBe, but I will add my specific experience with batteries as it is appropriate to this thread. 

Twelve new DECA group 31 105 amp/hr, 650CCA, "Sealed" lead acid marine batteries were installed on VBeBe in December 2016 (so only 6 months old when we hauled).  
- I checked all the batteries at the time of haul out and all checked out "ok" with full charge and over 600CCA on my battery tester. 
- The batteries were floated at 27.2v all summer, during the day, with solar panels (Victron Energy Blue Solar MPPT) - the boat minder sent photos each month of the charge level on the xantrex. 
- On return at the end of November the tester showed full charge level, but CCA's measured were in the high 400's to low 500's. Significantly worse then how I had left them.  Seven were flagged as "failing".  
- I peeled back the seals over the caps and checked the cells and the water levels were just millimeters above the plates (several cells had the very top of the plates exposed.)   I refilled the cells with distilled water to the proper fill level.  This consumed nearly 4 gallons of water for 12 batteries!! 
- Since then I have charged each morning and evening with the 100amp charger to 100%, with the solar being close to maintaining charge during the day. 
- With two refrigerators and  one freezer running, plus a few lights, sometimes a fan we will use approx 50 - 60 amp hours from 9pm until 7am.    The Xantrex shows that as approx 92% remaining charge.  The voltage (with about 4-5 amp/hr load will be at about 24.8-24.9volts at 7am.  (not sure how that compares to actually charge remaining, as it is not a 'resting' voltage measurement. 
- After two weeks of this cycling of the batteries I retested all of the "bad" batteries and the CCA had increased by more that 50, so that all are now near or above 550CCA.   

Those are the facts, here are some of my thoughts: 
1)  At first I thought that I had totally toasted my nearly new battery bank (very  depressing start to season!), but I have been very relieved with the recovery.  I'm not sure how to estimate the damage that has been done. 
2) Hindsight and research seems to confirm that 27.2 volts is to high a float voltage for the hot tropics.  There are some calculations that can be done and then I need to research how I can adjust my MPPT controller for the next summer.   Other's experience?  Float levels used in tropics for long term storage?
 I realized that although I was monitoring my batteries with the Xantrex every day (morning & evening) I was not writing anything down, and in fact I have not seen much discussion about what are the critical parameters to monitor and record to have objective data on performance.   I am now trying to record the morning levels (before sun hits the panels).  I record from the Xantrex, the voltage, the accumulated CCA (I've ended each day so far with a charge of 98-100%.  I hope that this will allow me to more accurately track the performance.   Would like to hear what others record and see any factual sharing/comparing of performance.  What guidelines do you use for sulfanation decisions, etc. 
3) Sealed, maintenance free lead acid batteries are a miss-nomer.  Watch the water level in them as well.  

I am sure that there is much more to learn in this area.  I will also share learnings in other areas (moisture  control, pest control, checklists, when I have time to process them)

Regards,  Dan &  Lori Carlson,  SM#387,  sv BeBe 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

Patrick McAneny
 

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123


-----Original Message-----
From: Dimitris Krasopoulos dkrasopoulos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 9:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 
For your information all the photos and instructions for the companion way repair are in the Facebook group page.
One more time I want to thank Eric on Kimberlite for his assistance and ideas

Best Regards

Dimitris Krasopoulos
Mob:+306944302318


2017-12-12 21:30 GMT+02:00 Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:
 
Eric,

Please email it to me as well. 
Sonsev52 at gmail com

Vladimir 
SM "LIFE is Good"

On Dec 11, 2017 16:54, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 
Ryan,
What is your email address?
Fair Winds
Eric
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 3:31 PM

To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.
 
 
Duane, I will try to remember to digitize and upload the paper companionway plans I have from Amel.
 
Eric, I'd love to learn your technique for removing the companionway slide.  I'm sure I'm not the only one -- perhaps you could upload/send it to the list?
 
Thanks,
 
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
 
On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 3:21 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 
Bill,
I am adding a piece of brown nylon above where the cross bar should stop.
That will align it every time.
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.
 
 
You can access the weather stripping easily without fully removing the slide, just lift the slide up.  
 
There is a stop on the bottom, aft side of the slide that is easily removable, and once off,  the slide can rise--until it hits the dodger. More than high enough to easily access the weather stripping.
 
Just a random thought:  It would be nice if that stop was positioned to actually stop the slide at the correct point to lock in place with the cross bar.  Sigh... I think I just assigned myself another project.
 
Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

Dimitris Krasopoulos
 

For your information all the photos and instructions for the companion way repair are in the Facebook group page.
One more time I want to thank Eric on Kimberlite for his assistance and ideas

Best Regards

Dimitris Krasopoulos
Mob:+306944302318


2017-12-12 21:30 GMT+02:00 Vladimir Sonsev sonsev52@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Eric,

Please email it to me as well. 
Sonsev52 at gmail com

Vladimir 
SM "LIFE is Good"

On Dec 11, 2017 16:54, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ryan,

What is your email address?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 3:31 PM


To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 

 

Duane, I will try to remember to digitize and upload the paper companionway plans I have from Amel.

 

Eric, I'd love to learn your technique for removing the companionway slide.  I'm sure I'm not the only one -- perhaps you could upload/send it to the list?

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 3:21 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

Bill,

I am adding a piece of brown nylon above where the cross bar should stop.

That will align it every time.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 

 

You can access the weather stripping easily without fully removing the slide, just lift the slide up.  

 

There is a stop on the bottom, aft side of the slide that is easily removable, and once off,  the slide can rise--until it hits the dodger. More than high enough to easily access the weather stripping.

 

Just a random thought:  It would be nice if that stop was positioned to actually stop the slide at the correct point to lock in place with the cross bar.  Sigh... I think I just assigned myself another project.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

Patrick McAneny
 

Eric , My switch does not light up , no gas . Is that necessarily the solenoid , could it be the power source ? I had damage to electrical equipment and I believe the electrical source is from a small , square , I am guessing transformer located in the compartment above the galley. I believe 24v feeds it , but don't get a reading coming out. Can anyone confirm that this is the power source, Should the switch lite up even with a bad solenoid , or does that indicate a bad switch ?
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:30 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 
Alex,
I changed my solenoid to a USA made solenoid.
It is very easy to get and the pipes fit up to it quite nicely.
I  think you are a few boats away from Kimberlite on the Ponton.
.Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch
 
 
Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?
Regards, Alex
AMEL54#15, NO STRESS
 
 
On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
 
 
Alex,
Are you using propane or butane?
Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch
 
 
Dear Amelians,
I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....
Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.
Best Regards,
Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Dan Carlson
 

Hi All,   I am still processing all of my learnings from our 1st hurricane season on the hard in Trinidad with BeBe, but I will add my specific experience with batteries as it is appropriate to this thread. 

Twelve new DECA group 31 105 amp/hr, 650CCA, "Sealed" lead acid marine batteries were installed on VBeBe in December 2016 (so only 6 months old when we hauled).  
- I checked all the batteries at the time of haul out and all checked out "ok" with full charge and over 600CCA on my battery tester. 
- The batteries were floated at 27.2v all summer, during the day, with solar panels (Victron Energy Blue Solar MPPT) - the boat minder sent photos each month of the charge level on the xantrex. 
- On return at the end of November the tester showed full charge level, but CCA's measured were in the high 400's to low 500's. Significantly worse then how I had left them.  Seven were flagged as "failing".  
- I peeled back the seals over the caps and checked the cells and the water levels were just millimeters above the plates (several cells had the very top of the plates exposed.)   I refilled the cells with distilled water to the proper fill level.  This consumed nearly 4 gallons of water for 12 batteries!! 
- Since then I have charged each morning and evening with the 100amp charger to 100%, with the solar being close to maintaining charge during the day. 
- With two refrigerators and  one freezer running, plus a few lights, sometimes a fan we will use approx 50 - 60 amp hours from 9pm until 7am.    The Xantrex shows that as approx 92% remaining charge.  The voltage (with about 4-5 amp/hr load will be at about 24.8-24.9volts at 7am.  (not sure how that compares to actually charge remaining, as it is not a 'resting' voltage measurement. 
- After two weeks of this cycling of the batteries I retested all of the "bad" batteries and the CCA had increased by more that 50, so that all are now near or above 550CCA.   

Those are the facts, here are some of my thoughts: 
1)  At first I thought that I had totally toasted my nearly new battery bank (very  depressing start to season!), but I have been very relieved with the recovery.  I'm not sure how to estimate the damage that has been done. 
2) Hindsight and research seems to confirm that 27.2 volts is to high a float voltage for the hot tropics.  There are some calculations that can be done and then I need to research how I can adjust my MPPT controller for the next summer.   Other's experience?  Float levels used in tropics for long term storage?
 I realized that although I was monitoring my batteries with the Xantrex every day (morning & evening) I was not writing anything down, and in fact I have not seen much discussion about what are the critical parameters to monitor and record to have objective data on performance.   I am now trying to record the morning levels (before sun hits the panels).  I record from the Xantrex, the voltage, the accumulated CCA (I've ended each day so far with a charge of 98-100%.  I hope that this will allow me to more accurately track the performance.   Would like to hear what others record and see any factual sharing/comparing of performance.  What guidelines do you use for sulfanation decisions, etc. 
3) Sealed, maintenance free lead acid batteries are a miss-nomer.  Watch the water level in them as well.  

I am sure that there is much more to learn in this area.  I will also share learnings in other areas (moisture  control, pest control, checklists, when I have time to process them)

Regards,  Dan &  Lori Carlson,  SM#387,  sv BeBe 




On Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:58 AM, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Danny , I have been able to keep my batteries in the 85 to 100% charge zone and when on the mooring 100% for long periods. Do batteries still degrade when generally kept in the 90 to 100% range. I too have wet cell , always have for the last 35 years , and see no reason I would switch out for a more expensive / complex system.
Happy Holidays,
Pat 


-----Original Message-----
From: simms@... [amelyachtowners] To: Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 6:40 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

 
Hi again Pat, after I get to the boat in the next few days I will post photos of the hand book and the graph of the desulphation program. Basically it is a controlled period of seriously high voltage over charging. A lot of gas given off. Caps off the batteries and the battery compartment lid closed and no naked flames any where near. Would be impossible in a boat without a closed and vented battery compartment.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 12 Dec 2017 11:11, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Danny, Do you use your solar panels to disulfide your batteries ? My solar reg. has that option.
Thanks,
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Mon, Dec 11, 2017 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

 
Hi Mark,
Those batteries were 12 six volt golf cart type bought from West Marine in Newport Rhode Island. After 4 years I was on the point of replacing them when through the input of another cruiser I found my dolphin desulphation program. When sulphates build up on the plates the charge has to be "pushed" through this layer, the thicker it is the more resistance there is. What you will notice is that when charging they come up to "full " charge quickly, but then don't hold the charge. This is because the charge did not make it fully into the plates. There is nothing wrong with the plates, the charge just didn't get in there.
So how often did I desulphate? When I noticed this effect becoming prominent. 
I do believe the solar panels and the wind generator are a big part of getting a long life. I have talked to cruisers who have got 10 years plus from lead acid by using desulphation so perhaps rather than searching for the &# 34;right" battery the answer is to have chargers that provide an effective desulphation program, and apply it correctly. Maintenance. Keep them well watered all the time and keep terminals and connections clean and making good contact. 
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 12 December 2017 at 05:18 "mfmcgovern@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Danny,

8 years is an incredibly long time for any batteries to last, let alone relatively inexpensive flooded lead acid batteries.  What type and brand battery were they?  How often did you run the desulphation program?  Is it possible for you to share your entire "battery care regimen" with the forum either via a post or an uploaded f ile?  I would find it incredibly useful and I'm sure others would too.

Thanks,
Mark McGovern
SM#440 Cara
Deale, MD USA 
 

 



Amel Owners Italian Chapter

Massimo Vecchietti
 

On facebook there is a new group : AMEL YACHT OWNERS ITALIAN CHAPTER
Max
SM Patchouli  II  n 84

Mail priva di virus. www.avast.com


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

greatketch@...
 

32 Volts is pretty typical for equalizing/desulphating flooded cells.  

Trojan recommends 32.4, and Rolls 31.6

Others manufacturers, like East Penn (Dekka) recommend constant current charging for desulphating an aging battery. Few marine battery chargers can do a constant current charge...

Lifeline is one of very few AGM makers that recommend a desulphating regime, at 30.5 volts for 8 hours.  I have seen that do a great job at refreshing our bank.

Someday, maybe, batteries will be simple.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

eric freedman
 

Vladamir,

Did you receive the info and photos?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 2:31 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 

 

Eric,

 

Please email it to me as well. 

Sonsev52 at gmail com

 

Vladimir 

SM "LIFE is Good"

 

On Dec 11, 2017 16:54, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Ryan,

What is your email address?

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 3:31 PM


To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 

 

Duane, I will try to remember to digitize and upload the paper companionway plans I have from Amel.

 

Eric, I'd love to learn your technique for removing the companionway slide.  I'm sure I'm not the only one -- perhaps you could upload/send it to the list?

 

Thanks,

 

Ryan

SM 233 Iteration

Boston, MA, USA

 

On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 3:21 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Bill,

I am adding a piece of brown nylon above where the cross bar should stop.

That will align it every time.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 12:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 

 

You can access the weather stripping easily without fully removing the slide, just lift the slide up.  

 

There is a stop on the bottom, aft side of the slide that is easily removable, and once off,  the slide can rise--until it hits the dodger. More than high enough to easily access the weather stripping.

 

Just a random thought:  It would be nice if that stop was positioned to actually stop the slide at the correct point to lock in place with the cross bar.  Sigh... I think I just assigned myself another project.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

karkauai
 

My new Interstate hybrid batteries require 32 for desulfation.  That spec was very difficult to get, I had th contact the engineers at Interstate and even he had a hard time finding it.  That's higher than most batteries.  I needed a new charger anyway, but had to do some searching to find one that would do the job.  I steeled on a Victron Skylla-I 1+1 80Amp 24v charger.  So far a year later it's doing what it's supposed to do.


Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

karkauai
 

Make sure all 24v equipment is off while you desulfate.  The high voltages will fry some electronics.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

eric freedman
 

Alex,

I changed my solenoid to a USA made solenoid.

It is very easy to get and the pipes fit up to it quite nicely.

I  think you are a few boats away from Kimberlite on the Ponton.

.Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?

Regards, Alex

AMEL54#15, NO STRESS

 

 

On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

JOHN HAYES
 

As a safety measure we have installed a second bilge pump mounted above the first so that if the first stops working and we don’t immediately notice, the second will cut in and take over the job (hopefully). In fact we had that happen recently and the system works well.

Xmas greetings to one and all

 

John Hayes

Nga Waka

 

Wellington

New Zealand

 

From: on behalf of "Ken Powers sailingaquarius@... [amelyachtowners]"
Reply-To:
Date: Wednesday, 13 December 2017 at 9:28 AM
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

 

 

Hello Mark,

 

My plan was to buy a Rule 2000 and use it while I figured out how to fix the old one.  But, after meeting... (and sailing with) several Amel owners, I have decided to KEEP the Rule 2000 and carry a spare.  This is currently working well, but will clean up the plumbing.  The old Bilge pump would have cost several hundred dollars to fix, and still old technology.  Sometimes you have to change to the new technology because it's too expensive to keep up the old.

 

Ken

Aquarius 

SM2K 262

Currently in Panama (Shelter Island Marina)

 

On Monday, December 11, 2017 7:41 AM, "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 

 

At one point, I think Amel had these in stock. Have you checked with Maud?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:05 AM
To: Ken Powers sailingaquarius@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

 

 

Ken, what was your resolution on your bilge pump?

 

I've just had the same issue on SM 387 (must be that hot weather in Trinidad!)

 

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, sv BeBe

 

 

 

Any Help Will be appreciated!

 

Our bilge pump was running for what seemed a long time.  So I went down to see what was up.  I found the motor running, but not pumping.  The motor drive a plastic gear that broke.

 

Does anyone know where I can get this part, or maybe I have to get a new bilge pump.  :)

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Ken Powers

Aquarius SM2K #262

In Trinidad Crews Inn

 

 

 


Re: Bilge Pump Quit

Craig Briggs
 

Ken, 
Here's an old post on the topic about how to fix it.
"
You don't say "how" it is broken - ours "broke" in that the nylon gear was spinning freely about the inner drive disk (there are fine spline grooves that make these turn together). The gear was in one piece and the teeth were OK.

I was able to drill three small holes (1/16") spaced around the perimeter and insert steel pins (cut off small finishing nails) flush with the gear surface and into the inner plastic drive. Well, one of the pins is actually the drill bit that broke off, so I just left it." 

Cheers, Craig SN#68


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailingaquarius@...> wrote :

Any Help Will be appreciated!

Our bilge pump was running for what seemed a long time.  So I went down to see what was up.  I found the motor running, but not pumping.  The motor drive a plastic gear that broke.

Does anyone know where I can get this part, or maybe I have to get a new bilge pump.  :)

Thanks in advance,

Ken Powers
Aquarius SM2K #262
In Trinidad Crews Inn



 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

Mark Erdos
 

My 2 cents: My bilge pump has lasted about 17 years now. I don’t consider it old technology, but old faithful. IMHO, you get what you pay for.

 

I carry a rebuild kit including the plastic wheel. I also have a complete spare (new).

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 4:24 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

 

 

Hello Mark,

 

My plan was to buy a Rule 2000 and use it while I figured out how to fix the old one.  But, after meeting... (and sailing with) several Amel owners, I have decided to KEEP the Rule 2000 and carry a spare.  This is currently working well, but will clean up the plumbing.  The old Bilge pump would have cost several hundred dollars to fix, and still old technology.  Sometimes you have to change to the new technology because it's too expensive to keep up the old.

 

Ken

Aquarius 

SM2K 262

Currently in Panama (Shelter Island Marina)

 

On Monday, December 11, 2017 7:41 AM, "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:

 

 

At one point, I think Amel had these in stock. Have you checked with Maud?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 11, 2017 11:05 AM
To: Ken Powers sailingaquarius@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bilge Pump Quit

 

 

Ken, what was your resolution on your bilge pump?

 

I've just had the same issue on SM 387 (must be that hot weather in Trinidad!)

 

Thanks and regards, Dan Carlson, sv BeBe

 

 

 

Any Help Will be appreciated!

 

Our bilge pump was running for what seemed a long time.  So I went down to see what was up.  I found the motor running, but not pumping.  The motor drive a plastic gear that broke.

 

Does anyone know where I can get this part, or maybe I have to get a new bilge pump.  :)

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Ken Powers

Aquarius SM2K #262

In Trinidad Crews Inn