Date   

Re: No Stop, then No Start on Yanmar 4JH3-HTE

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

Don't worry about posting here...  If you have the problem, odds are somebody else has too!

The first place I would go on your problem is a mechanically sticking stop solenoid.  It would give all the symptoms you describe, especially the rough running before it shut down would indicate that it wasn't completely stopping fuel flow as it should.  Not restarting means that the spring isn't retracting it to the "run" position.

I had a similar problem with my Onan, and a bit of wiggling and CorrosionX restored it to normal operation.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Highlands, NJ


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailor63109@...> wrote :

Am I posting too many problems?  Man, it seems like it to me!


After 38 hours of motoring we dropped anchor, let the engine cool down for 10 minutes, then hit the stop button.  The engine didn't stop right away.  I had to hold the stop button down for maybe 10 to 15 seconds to stop it.  That had never happened before.  During that time the engine sounded unusual, like some cylinders were not firing.


Then the next morning the engine would not start.  The starter ran fine, and the engine turned over but would not fire.  I started checking assuming a fuel problem.  I switched the dual Racor over to the other filter, still no start.  I checked the main fuel filter bleed screw to see if there was fuel in the filter and there was plenty.  I then pulled one of the injector pipes off the injector and turned the engine over, no fuel.  I then replaced the engine main fuel filter, still no start.  It seems fuel is not getting to the cylinders, but there is no obstruction in the fuel path, as evidenced by the ease of purging air from the fuel filter.


It seems to me that it must be the stop solenoid (I assume that's what the stop button actuates), but I'm not sure where that is on the engine (not much of a mechanic am I?).  The fuel pump appears to be engine driven, not electrical.  I will post a few photos of that side of the engine in the folder "Wanderer".


If it had something to do with the "stop solenoid" my understanding is that the fuel is always on unless the stop solenoid interrupts the flow.  It could be failing based on the difficulty in stopping the engine, but why now will it not start?  Did it fail in the "fuel off" position?

The starter operates normally.


MY OTHER PROBLEM:  I've cranked the engine enough that I'm worried the water lift muffler might be full.  The muffler is between the engine and the fuel tank.  The drain is toward the stern and I can't get my hand/arm down there to remove the cap (the exhaust hose takes up most of the space).  It looks like I'll have to remove the exhaust hose to get to it.  Has anyone found a clever way to do this?  It looks like the easiest way would be to remove the exhaust elbow and run a small diameter hose down the exhaust hose to the muffler and pump from there.


We had TowboatUS bring us in the last few miles to the marina, if not for the insurance it would have been a $780 tow!  Worse than that we would have been in the Bahamas just a few days ago!


Thanks in advance for any help.

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

Currently in Brunswick, GA


No Stop, then No Start on Yanmar 4JH3-HTE

Duane Siegfri
 

Am I posting too many problems?  Man, it seems like it to me!


After 38 hours of motoring we dropped anchor, let the engine cool down for 10 minutes, then hit the stop button.  The engine didn't stop right away.  I had to hold the stop button down for maybe 10 to 15 seconds to stop it.  That had never happened before.  During that time the engine sounded unusual, like some cylinders were not firing.


Then the next morning the engine would not start.  The starter ran fine, and the engine turned over but would not fire.  I started checking assuming a fuel problem.  I switched the dual Racor over to the other filter, still no start.  I checked the main fuel filter bleed screw to see if there was fuel in the filter and there was plenty.  I then pulled one of the injector pipes off the injector and turned the engine over, no fuel.  I then replaced the engine main fuel filter, still no start.  It seems fuel is not getting to the cylinders, but there is no obstruction in the fuel path, as evidenced by the ease of purging air from the fuel filter.


It seems to me that it must be the stop solenoid (I assume that's what the stop button actuates), but I'm not sure where that is on the engine (not much of a mechanic am I?).  The fuel pump appears to be engine driven, not electrical.  I will post a few photos of that side of the engine in the folder "Wanderer".


If it had something to do with the "stop solenoid" my understanding is that the fuel is always on unless the stop solenoid interrupts the flow.  It could be failing based on the difficulty in stopping the engine, but why now will it not start?  Did it fail in the "fuel off" position?

The starter operates normally.


MY OTHER PROBLEM:  I've cranked the engine enough that I'm worried the water lift muffler might be full.  The muffler is between the engine and the fuel tank.  The drain is toward the stern and I can't get my hand/arm down there to remove the cap (the exhaust hose takes up most of the space).  It looks like I'll have to remove the exhaust hose to get to it.  Has anyone found a clever way to do this?  It looks like the easiest way would be to remove the exhaust elbow and run a small diameter hose down the exhaust hose to the muffler and pump from there.


We had TowboatUS bring us in the last few miles to the marina, if not for the insurance it would have been a $780 tow!  Worse than that we would have been in the Bahamas just a few days ago!


Thanks in advance for any help.

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477

Currently in Brunswick, GA


Re: Hard deposits on 8-month old water heater heating unit

greatketch@...
 

One more random thought on the topic of hard water... 

One way to kill a flooded battery in a hurry is to add water containing a lot of dissolved salts to it.

On my old boat I had flooded batteries, and made my own high purity water by running fresh water from the tanks back through the RO unit a second time.  That took the TDS from about 200ppm down to about 3ppm, a level I was comfortable adding to the batteries.  That way I could add pure water to my batteries, but did not need to find, buy, and carry jugs of distilled water.

Battery life is a regular topic here, and the quality of water people use is not often discussed, but it is important.  If you are adding single pass RO seawater to your batteries, that would be bad.  Even if we assume 99% salt rejection on a single pass, your RO water can contain 200ppm chloride by weight--WAY higher than the maximum recommended for battery water:


Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Highlands, NJ


---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Thank you all for your responses.

Bill, never even considered measuring the TDS on shore water.  Lesson learned, especially if staying at same place more than one tankful or so.

Barry and Robyn, yes, the anode we installed on 4/14 when we left for Nova Scotia was 100% gone by 11/16, so it lasted less than 30 months (no inspections in between).  The anode we installed on 11/16 was I would say 25% gone by now, though after I took the picture, cleaning the heating unit, I accidentally broke off the top 40% of it, so perhaps it had weakened internally beyond the 25% apparent wear.  Anodes are €12 and DHL will not transport them, so buy local.  Quick recommends annual inspection.

Bill_9895, yes, people on internet recommend setting the thermostat to a mere 120F (50C) in hard water places to avoid scale!  For now I will set at 60C as we'll be in warm areas for a while.  I was just stunned because on previous inspections (4/14 and 11/16) there was either no scale or vanishingly little.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)
At anchor, Bozburun


Re: seeking an amel super maramu

Gary Wells
 

Woohoo!! Congratulations!! Now you not only own a boat, you own the world :).

Gary W.
SM 209, Adagio
Between Greek Islands


Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Duane Siegfri
 

Alan,

Thank you for that detailed explanation!  I was hoping I wouldn't have to dismount the headstay.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Ann-Sofie Svanberg <kanalmamman@...>
 

There is a spring that controlls the clutch pin, if that is compromised you can get this sort of problem. So if you can't feel the resistance from a spring pusching the clutch pin,  this might be the case. Unfortunately we haven't had the need to figure out how to reach that spring. But there is a drawing of the furler on the forum, check the documents file or photos.

Regards
Jonas & Annsofie
S/Y Lady Annila, SM232, 1998

Skickat från min iPad

17 juni 2017 kl. 01:58 skrev sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I've had issues twice now with a partly furled jib unrolling by itself.


This is not an issue where the sail was loosely furled.  I had the sail unrolled for about 50% area in a 15-20 knot wind.  The sail unfurled suddenly with a loud "BANG" and then we were dealing with too much sail.

I don't see anything in the Amel Manual that would advise against using the roller furling as roller reefing.

The first time it happened the chrome clutch pin moved up and we could not furl the sail until I figured out it was the clutch pin.  The clutch pin on Wanderer was held from lifiting upward by multiple plastic wire ties which were broken by the sail unfurling.  I used mousing wire to hold it down in place so it wasn't a problem furling the sail in this time.

Question 1:  Is the jib furling meant to act as roller reefing?

Question 2:  What could be the problem causing the sail to unfurl?  It furls normally so I would not think the gears are stripped, but it is still possible I suppose.

Question 3:  Why does the clutch pin need wire ties to hold it down?  I don't see any set screws or other attachments that are missing.  Is this somehow connected to the unfurling problem?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Hard deposits on 8-month old water heater heating unit

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Thank you all for your responses.

Bill, never even considered measuring the TDS on shore water.  Lesson learned, especially if staying at same place more than one tankful or so.

Barry and Robyn, yes, the anode we installed on 4/14 when we left for Nova Scotia was 100% gone by 11/16, so it lasted less than 30 months (no inspections in between).  The anode we installed on 11/16 was I would say 25% gone by now, though after I took the picture, cleaning the heating unit, I accidentally broke off the top 40% of it, so perhaps it had weakened internally beyond the 25% apparent wear.  Anodes are €12 and DHL will not transport them, so buy local.  Quick recommends annual inspection.

Bill_9895, yes, people on internet recommend setting the thermostat to a mere 120F (50C) in hard water places to avoid scale!  For now I will set at 60C as we'll be in warm areas for a while.  I was just stunned because on previous inspections (4/14 and 11/16) there was either no scale or vanishingly little.

Cheerio,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)
At anchor, Bozburun


Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Duane,

To investigate you need to just remove the top part of the furling mechanism.
Given our boats serial numbers are quite close, I would guess our furler is the same as yours. The earlier SM ones are different.
Undo the line that holds the tack of the genoa onto the furler.
There are two large bolts with dome nuts...the bolts are actually studs threaded into the casting. Undo and take off the large nuts.
Then there are four hex head bolts, two on each side which you need to take out.
The two halves of the top of the furler (one with the clutch pin) can now be taken off - it may need a little persuading with a soft hammer and jiggling the foil a bit.
Then you will see the pin from the inside and you will see the plate with the two slots in it.
The clutch pin should move freely but be quite hard to pull up against the spring...if it's easy and doesn't retract strongly, then the spring is broken. The clutch pin has two parts. The inner part has a screw slot and it unscrews from the outer part - between the two is a collet and the spring. You may need an impact wrench to unscrew this - I did.
Once you've done that it will be clear what needs repairing and whether you need to do more dismantling.
Good luck
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Quote from the Captain of the Fitzgerald

eric freedman
 


Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks for the replies everyone!

It seems to me to check the clutch pin spring, or inspect the clutch plates I'll have to remove the furling mechanim from the forestay...is that correct?  I see there are instructions for removing the motor in the files section titled:  "How to service the forestay and or jib furling motore/gearbox".

If I need to do that I might as well regrease the forestay.  Is any waterproof grease good for this purpose or is some other type recommended?

Thanks,
Duane
 


Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

greatketch@...
 

Like Alan says...

I had the plate the clutch pin fits into blow up, and had a new one made, but it your case sounds like the hole in that plate is the culprit.  If it is rounded off, it could be pushing up on the pin--especially if the pin spring is a bit weak to start with. No external reinforcements (wire or cable ties) should be needed.

In my case, the clutch plate was poorly designed.  The hole for the clutch pin was on a common radius with the holes attaching the plate to the transmission.  This left the most highly stressed part of the plate with the least metal.  The replacement had the hole for the clutch pin rotated 60 degrees from its original position for a stronger result.

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Highlands, NJ



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

Yes, it is roller reefing. 

Your problem is that the spring that normally holds the pin down and locked is apparently broken. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jun 16, 2017 20:10, "divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Duane,


We too have experienced this.

In answer to your questions 

1. Yes it is meant to be a roller furling system
2. What happened with ours, and it sounds like it could be your issue, the two holes/slots in the plate that the clutch pin engages in were worn on one side and it wouldn't take much effort on the furler for the pin to pop up and skid around the plate and thus unfurl the sail.
3. The clutch pin doesn't need wires to hold it down unless see 2 above, and / or the spring inside the clutch pin is broken.

Our fix was to take the top part of the furler off and attach two machined  semicircular plates with matching holes/slots for the clutch pin, to the top plate where the holes are, with quite a few small bolts and nuts. It has been working fine now for two years and if those plates ever wear out we can replace them.
 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Dessalator Duo D60 Problems

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

A restriction could be located anywhere from outside the intake of the sea chest to outside the output on the hull. I have seen the hose from the sea chest totally clogged. It could be the valve and pipe under the sea chest. It could be the plastic basket in the sea chest. It could be a lot of things and a combination of others like when the restriction creates enough vacuum, the one-way valve on the A/C pump opens and the CAT sucks air causing the pressure to drop until water rushes into the CAT causing pressure to spike. 

Before you look elsewhere, it is time to eliminate any possibility of an input or output restriction, including the wrong Micron specification on the filter. I am sure that you'll find it. If you don't, then look at the pressure valve and the CAT. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jun 16, 2017 19:36, "sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,


Thanks for the clarification (only needed because jumped to a conclusion!).  I assumed that the filter was likely the only place a blockage could happen, but as you point out, that's a big leap.

If I disconect the seawater hose from the CAT pump and get a good flow, that may answer the supply problem.  I'm not sure how much flow is enough but if it only trickles out that's obviously a problem. It could be the seawater manifold is clogged, but I've been using the airconditioners and they seem to work fine.  If it's not the manifold it could be the three way valve, or the hoses.  I need to replace the three way valve anyway.

The question in my mind is why it works fine for 30 minutes to 2 hours before it fails?  If it were a supply problem I would think it would shut down pretty quickly.  By the way, it shuts itself down by either by going below or above the g reen zone.

I'll check the seawater flow and see how that goes first of course (hopefully it's that simple).

Thanks for your interest, I'll get back to you.
Duane


Re: Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Duane,

We too have experienced this.

In answer to your questions 

1. Yes it is meant to be a roller furling system
2. What happened with ours, and it sounds like it could be your issue, the two holes/slots in the plate that the clutch pin engages in were worn on one side and it wouldn't take much effort on the furler for the pin to pop up and skid around the plate and thus unfurl the sail.
3. The clutch pin doesn't need wires to hold it down unless see 2 above, and / or the spring inside the clutch pin is broken.

Our fix was to take the top part of the furler off and attach two machined  semicircular plates with matching holes/slots for the clutch pin, to the top plate where the holes are, with quite a few small bolts and nuts. It has been working fine now for two years and if those plates ever wear out we can replace them.
 
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Jib Furler problem with partly furled sail

Duane Siegfri
 

I've had issues twice now with a partly furled jib unrolling by itself.

This is not an issue where the sail was loosely furled.  I had the sail unrolled for about 50% area in a 15-20 knot wind.  The sail unfurled suddenly with a loud "BANG" and then we were dealing with too much sail.

I don't see anything in the Amel Manual that would advise against using the roller furling as roller reefing.

The first time it happened the chrome clutch pin moved up and we could not furl the sail until I figured out it was the clutch pin.  The clutch pin on Wanderer was held from lifiting upward by multiple plastic wire ties which were broken by the sail unfurling.  I used mousing wire to hold it down in place so it wasn't a problem furling the sail in this time.

Question 1:  Is the jib furling meant to act as roller reefing?

Question 2:  What could be the problem causing the sail to unfurl?  It furls normally so I would not think the gears are stripped, but it is still possible I suppose.

Question 3:  Why does the clutch pin need wire ties to hold it down?  I don't see any set screws or other attachments that are missing.  Is this somehow connected to the unfurling problem?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Dessalator Duo D60 Problems

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

Thanks for the clarification (only needed because jumped to a conclusion!).  I assumed that the filter was likely the only place a blockage could happen, but as you point out, that's a big leap.

If I disconect the seawater hose from the CAT pump and get a good flow, that may answer the supply problem.  I'm not sure how much flow is enough but if it only trickles out that's obviously a problem. It could be the seawater manifold is clogged, but I've been using the airconditioners and they seem to work fine.  If it's not the manifold it could be the three way valve, or the hoses.  I need to replace the three way valve anyway.

The question in my mind is why it works fine for 30 minutes to 2 hours before it fails?  If it were a supply problem I would think it would shut down pretty quickly.  By the way, it shuts itself down by either by going below or above the green zone.

I'll check the seawater flow and see how that goes first of course (hopefully it's that simple).

Thanks for your interest, I'll get back to you.
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hard deposits on 8-month old water heater heating unit

seagasm
 

Don't forget, there is an anode inside about 300mm (12") long. Something I was never told about when we replaced ours. Maybe the deposits in yours were related?

Kind Regards,
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM# 171


Re: Furuno GP-80 Self-test failure

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Drew,

I read on the FB page that some one had changed the battery in their GPS-90 and it lost all the Data Output settings...DATA 1 to DATA 4. Maybe that's what's happened to you ?
Perhaps someone here with a GPS-80 and same equipment as you, can give you a copy of their settings?
Good luck !
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Hard deposits on 8-month old water heater heating unit

greatketch@...
 

High hardness in the water is a good bet, combined with the 80C temperature setting.  TOO hot. The chemistry invloved is complex, but in the simplest possible terms, when you heat the water that hot, you dirve CO2 out of solution.  The pH rises, and the solubility of Calcium drops.  Then you get "scale"


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Rolly Tasker Contact - Phuket

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I have done business with Rolly Tasker. 

I would be cautious because they import a huge amount of stainless from China. And as you know, Chinese 316 SS is not always 316. 

I had great service from Rolly Tasker when we were in Thailand. I had some minor sail repair, had them put a sock on the Mizzen Ballooner, and had them make new lifeline wire for Port and Starboard. The price was satisfactory and the overall quality good with the sail labor quality being outstanding.  


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jun 16, 2017 13:24, "tfortner1975@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Sven Cornelius, CEO
Rolly Tasker Sails (Thailand) Co. Ltd.
84/2 Moo 2, Chaofa Road,
T. Vichit, A. Muang,
Phuket 83000 Thailand

E-Mail: sven@...
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