Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill,

I confirmed your price with Gaetan in Martinique of 11,535 euro, but that includes 673 euro of Martinique VAT. The last time I was in Martinique there was a very simple process for non-EU registered boats to establish exemption from VAT. Hopefully this still exists and your price will be 10,862 euro.

According to Gaetan, the reason I had a different quote is the quote that I had did not include all of the parts. I had already replaced some of the rigging parts on BeBe and he did not include those parts.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  



Quote From             Euro              Labor           Euro            Parts         Euro          Total     Dollars      Total
Trinidad - Jason Romell 1,513 6,607 8,119 $9662
Martinique - Caraibe Marine 3,429 8,106 11,535 $13,726
Seattle - Northwest Rigging 8,580 9,552 18,132 $21,577
Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By 150% 18% 57% 57%
Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By 127% 23% 42% 42%
NW Higher Than Trinidad By 467% 45% 123% 123%

I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool



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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Inverter Replacement

Jean-Pierre's MacBook Air <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Ian,

I installed a Cotek 3KW… Look them up; they have 100% of the Canadian fishing boat fleet.  Turn them on and go… 

Very reliable.

Jean-Pierre
SY Eleuthera SM007, Panama

On 3 Jan 2018, at 11:42, Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Crusader is fitted with a Cristec 1600VA 50Hz inverter which has just 
failed. Having taken it out and examined it briefly, it would seem that 
there is damage to one of the relays and evidence of burnt tracks on one 
of the PCB's. Cristec will repair the unit by replacing both the PCB's 
but to do so will cost around €1050 including shipping. The 1600VA model 
is no longer available. A 2000VA model costs €1528 plus VAT at 20%.

I shall probably send it back for repair, but before doing so I am 
wondering if there are any recommendations for a good cheaper 
alternative? You can get a 2KW inverter for less than $400 on eBay, but 
I would expect that they might be electrically very noisy and the sine 
wave not so 'pure' as is claimed, which could cause equipment damage.

Does anyone recommend a cheaper alternative that will not cause 
interference to laptops, SSB, Navtex etc?

With thanks

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Larnaca Cyprus



Inverter Replacement

Ian Shepherd
 

Crusader is fitted with a Cristec 1600VA 50Hz inverter which has just failed. Having taken it out and examined it briefly, it would seem that there is damage to one of the relays and evidence of burnt tracks on one of the PCB's. Cristec will repair the unit by replacing both the PCB's but to do so will cost around €1050 including shipping. The 1600VA model is no longer available. A 2000VA model costs €1528 plus VAT at 20%.

I shall probably send it back for repair, but before doing so I am wondering if there are any recommendations for a good cheaper alternative? You can get a 2KW inverter for less than $400 on eBay, but I would expect that they might be electrically very noisy and the sine wave not so 'pure' as is claimed, which could cause equipment damage.

Does anyone recommend a cheaper alternative that will not cause interference to laptops, SSB, Navtex etc?

With thanks

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader Larnaca Cyprus


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

James Alton
 

Eric,

   I agree with your statement that rigging wire does not usually fail without there being some fairly obvious problem with it.    I have been on boats with rigging failures, have rerigged a lot of boats, replaced broken spars and so far none of these failures were caused by the wire wire parting, it has always been the connections.  The swages are the most common failure I have seen but one other area of concern that is sometimes missed are the clevis pins which can look fine until you remove them and find cracks that are usually where they bear on the tang or chainplate.   

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jan 3, 2018, at 6:01 AM, Brent Cameron brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I’m a lurker here and love watching this forum for the very useful nuggets of information that leak out on a daily basis from the owners so don’t usually contribute but buried down in the original question on this topic was a statement: "BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig. “  

I can’t say whether or not this is actually true or not, but on a  passage from Bermuda to Antiqua this last November, there was an Amel (a Kirk I believe) that lost it’s rig in a series of squalls that two other Amel’s (Super Maramus - including the one I was crewimg  on) went through within radio distance of each other without drama.  The other Amel saw them and went over to lend some fuel so that they could make landfall as they were about 400 nautical miles from shore when it happened and weren’t sure they had enough to motor in.   I have left the names of the boats out in order to protect the privacy of the owners.   Also, there is a youtube episode of S/V Delos (another SM) on youtube where they re rigged her (they had the fittings professionally done in Thailand but did the installation themselves) and had cut one of the fittings apart  just as Eric mentioned with his sage advice - they found that it wasn’t far away from failing after being “inspected” bay a professional rigger.   I’d listen to Eric on this one…. (Back to lurking until I get my SM hopefully this fall).  

Brent Cameron,
Future SM Owner

On Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 PM -0500, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>, wrote:
 

Mike,

Rigging wire does not usually fail. The rigging usually fails at the fittings. Beside magna fluxing or x raying

You do not know what is going on inside the fitting.

 

Gaetan’s head rigger showed me a swage eye stud that he cut open with a band saw. It was on its last legs- the attached wire looked fine. He showed me a new swage that he had cut open from his rotary swaging machines. You could hardly see the strands of wire as the swage was so tight.

 

Kimberlite is in the open ocean 85 percent of the time, if not sitting in a hot marina with salt water down in the swages.  After 15 years , it was time for me to replace the rigging. I had previously mentioned that I replaced 3 pieces of wire and fittings at a very reputable St Maarten rigger due to the impending failure of the wire two fitting  and one fitting was cracked. That was 2 years ago.

However we have put a lot of miles on Kimberlite.

 

Rigging is like the line in dirty harry “how lucky do you feel?”

If you are just coastal cruising then I guess if the rig comes down and doesn’t kill anyone you will be fine.

However using an Amel for what it was built for , I would change the rig.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 3:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

 
 

Aletes SM#240 1999 is also facing the re-rigging decision. Various people and sources on internet search suggest wire rigging service life of 16, 12, or even 6 years. Most recommendations are by those with vested interest in replacements, ie. riggers and wire manufacturers. I have seen a Coast Guard report relating to failures on commercial catamarans in Hawaii that talk about 10 years. Finally I checked with our insurance agent. I figure if any entity has skin in the game (other than the boat owner/occupants) it would be the insurance industry. Our agent was quick to say that the insurance carriers are OK with standing rigging up to 20 years. Thereafter they will require detailed rigging inspections (not just looking up from the deck) every 2 to 5 years (depending on the insurer). This seems like a reasonable and reasoned way to address the aging rigging question and for me was comforting relative to the somewhat arbitrary nature of the shorter lifespan recommendations.

 

So. Here we are with an 18 year old boat that in Amel terms I would consider lightly used (probably less than 12 months total in the open ocean). We are looking at a $13K investment with Gaetan at Caraibe Marine, possibly later this month. This is not quite a case of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but it does feel like, if a  thorough inspection does not identify any problems, why replace a perfectly good rig, especially one this robust.

 

Anyway, we are leaning towards doing it. There seems to be no way to evaluate investing $13K in the equation of risk v. peace of mind.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 Falmouth, Antigua

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 11:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner not ed that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 
 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

Ian Shepherd
 

Hello Mike,

20 years seems a very generous allowance by you insurance agent. A friend of mines insurance company insists on new standing rigging after 10 years, which could be considered harsh as mileage and weather conditions should really be taken into consideration. I think that at 18 years age you should be seriously considering replacement.

I changed my rig after 13 years and 26,000 nms. Having been dis-masted once, I have no desire to repeat the experience. The failure was not caused by a wire failure but due to a failed weld on the lower port spreader to mast bracket joint, when the boat was just 13 weeks old.

A point also worth considering is that when you have lost your main mast the stability of the boat is completely changed. I was unable to exceed 1.4 knots under engine without violent rolling from side to side. It took me over 6 hours to cover 10 miles back to port. Don't try this a long way from shore. In fact don't try it at all. In my view it is just not worth trying to extend the rig life.

A couple of months ago I represented another SM2K owner whilst he had a pre-sale survey carried out in his absence. The yacht was built in 2001. The surveyor and I talked about rig failures at length. He said that if the wire breaks outside the swaged fittings, it will do so a couple of millimetres above the top of the swage. I have seen two Amels, where luckily only a strand has failed at this point, both on a mainmast lower.

During the survey, he found two serious rig problems using a small mirror. Both the forestay eye that attaches to the top of the mast and an eye at the top of one of the cap shrouds had serious cracks, and in his view were a disaster waiting to happen. Other parts can fail before the wire does.

By the way Mike, I am told you can get the complete Amel kit from ACMO in France  on a pallet for €8000. You might be able to save a bit by shipping the parts from France. I had Crusader re-rigged in Marmaris Turkey for €8000 including labour using ACMO fittings and a Danish made wire.

One other point picked up from the surveyor which is worth passing on, concerns the battery compartment. He was involved with an Amel whose battery compartment exploded so violently that it damaged the ceiling, the engine compartment wall and blew the aft cabin door off its hinges, even though it was open at the time! It was determined that the cause of the ignition of the hydrogen build up in the battery compartment was a loose battery cable. Something we all need to check from time to time.

Good luck with your new rig.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Larnaca Cyprus


On 02/01/2018 22:05, 'Mike Ondra' mdondra@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Aletes SM#240 1999 is also facing the re-rigging decision. Various people and sources on internet search suggest wire rigging service life of 16, 12, or even 6 years. Most recommendations are by those with vested interest in replacements, ie. riggers and wire manufacturers. I have seen a Coast Guard report relating to failures on commercial catamarans in Hawaii that talk about 10 years. Finally I checked with our insurance agent. I figure if any entity has skin in the game (other than the boat owner/occupants) it would be the insurance industry. Our agent was quick to say that the insurance carriers are OK with standing rigging up to 20 years. Thereafter they will require detailed rigging inspections (not just looking up from the deck) every 2 to 5 years (depending on the insurer). This seems like a reasonable and reasoned way to address the aging rigging question and for me was comforting relative to the somewhat arbitrary nature of the shorter lifespan recommendations.

 

So. Here we are with an 18 year old boat that in Amel terms I would consider lightly used (probably less than 12 months total in the open ocean). We are looking at a $13K investment with Gaetan at Caraibe Marine, possibly later this month. This is not quite a case of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but it does feel like, if a  thorough inspection does not identify any problems, why replace a perfectly good rig, especially one this robust.

 

Anyway, we are leaning towards doing it. There seems to be no way to evaluate investing $13K in the equation of risk v. peace of mind.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 Falmouth, Antigua

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 11:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner not ed that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 

 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mack Sails

Patrick McAneny
 

Danny, I have been dealing with the Mack family for 30 years , a father and two sons . The sons Travis and Colin have been running the business for the last several years. If you met them you would impressed with what nice guys they are and even more so with their depth of knowledge regarding  anything related to sailboats , particularly sails. I have bought many sails for different boats , furlers , rigging , etc. They only do excellent work , have exceptional standards and very competitive prices . Their quote on a new main came in $800 less than North Sails. They build everything in their loft in Fla. , North Sails , not sure where they are built. I like buying from the guy who is actually building the sails not just selling them. Hope all is good in N.Z. , wish you and Yvonne a Happy New Year !
Pat & Diane
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: simms@... [amelyachtowners]
To: Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 8:24 pm
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Mack Sails

 
Hi Pat, I've changed your thread from rigging to Mack Sails. When we bought Ocean Pearl in 2008 she had a full set of near new Mack sails. We must have done over 30,000 ocean miles before we changed the headsail and main. The mizzen  has 40,000 miles and still going. I was impressed with the sails from day  one and we did some really good passage times with them.
Pleased to do  a plug for a quality provider.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
Sent from my Vodafone Smart
On 3 Jan 2018 09:28, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill, Does Acmo manufacture wire themselves or are they a distributor of wire ? Their website does not indicate they are a manufacturer of wire , seemed more they supplied rigging . From what Annapolis Rigging and other riggers such as Mack Sails say , it sounds like the highest quality of wire today , in their opinion is being manufactured in South Korea by KOS . I was just speaking with Mack and they said it may well be that ACMO also buys their wire from KOS .He said there is not many wire manufacturers left . He agreed that you need to certify your source as their is cheap wire out there , much from China. He also said that much name brand hardware is also from China and  one is lead to believe its manufactured elsewhere . 
Happy New Year,
Pat SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Bill,

Thanks for the information.

As you know, not all rigging wire is created equal, and rigging wire is made in metric and inch dimensions. I noted that you did not specify, but I am fairly sure that the rigging wire available in Seattle and possibly Trinidad are inch. My experience is that when riggers use inch dimensions, they use slightly smaller wire than the original metric dimensions than Amel uses.

Additionally, Chinese stainless steel is popping up everywhere. Did you ask for a certificate of origin or some other proof of country of manufacture? Also, I have seen many riggers use existing Amel rigging parts when re-rigging an Amel because they cannot source some parts, especially the small turnbuckle on the forestay.

Over the years I have seen many marine suppliers cave into the price pressure placed on them and when people only compare prices. Many of these suppliers give their customers what they ask for...the lowest price without regard to quality. The best examples of this are the very low quality products offered by Worst Marine.

Lastly, I am familiar with a Super Maramu owner that used the wrong rigger, who used bad materials about a year ago. He is going to sail to Martinique to have everything replaced again. Martinique isn't the only good place to replace Amel SM rigging, but they certainly are the most experienced on this side of the Atlantic. I have a quote from them done in 2016 for 9032..34 Euro. I am going to write Gaetan and ask what the difference is. I will CC you of the email.

I believe that you are on the right track, but there are other variables that you need to address in your comparisons.

Your current rigging lasted 22 years and on a recent circumnavigation. There has to be a reason that Amel OEM rigging outlasts other rigging by almost two times the norm. The OEM rigging is available in kit form and ready to install from ACMO, the OEM supplier to Amel for your boat. The kit includes everything down to the washers. Email philippe"at"acmo.fr

I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  


Quote From             Euro              Labor           Euro            Parts         Euro          Total     Dollars      Total
Trinidad - Jason Romell 1,513 6,607 8,119 $9662
Martinique - Caraibe Marine 3,429 8,106 11,535 $13,726
Seattle - Northwest Rigging 8,580 9,552 18,132 $21,577
Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By 150% 18% 57% 57%
Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By 127% 23% 42% 42%
NW Higher Than Trinidad By 467% 45% 123% 123%

I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool




--


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

Mike Ondra
 

Looking at the Delos video now. Looks like a 3 part video, maybe an hour watch. But have a couple of appointments now and will not be able to view until later today.

We are getting some more substantive data now.

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2018 7:04 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

 

 

Hmmm….

 

Have you seen that video? I believe their boat is newer than ours.



On Jan 3, 2018, at 6:01 AM, Brent Cameron brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I’m a lurker here and love watching this forum for the very useful nuggets of information that leak out on a daily basis from the owners so don’t usually contribute but buried down in the original question on this topic was a statement: "BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig. “  

 

I can’t say whether or not this is actually true or not, but on a  passage from Bermuda to Antiqua this last November, there was an Amel (a Kirk I believe) that lost it’s rig in a series of squalls that two other Amel’s (Super Maramus - including the one I was crewimg  on) went through within radio distance of each other without drama.  The other Amel saw them and went over to lend some fuel so that they could make landfall as they were about 400 nautical miles from shore when it happened and weren’t sure they had enough to motor in.   I have left the names of the boats out in order to protect the privacy of the owners.   Also, there is a youtube episode of S/V Delos (another SM) on youtube where they re rigged her (they had the fittings professionally done in Thailand but did the installation themselves) and had cut one of the fittings apart  just as Eric mentioned with his sage advice - they found that it wasn’t far away from failing after being “inspected” bay a professional rigger.   I’d listen to Eric on this one…. (Back to lurking until I get my SM hopefully this fall).  

 

Brent Cameron,

Future SM Owner


On Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 PM -0500, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>, wrote:

 

 

Mike,

Rigging wire does not usually fail. The rigging usually fails at the fittings. Beside magna fluxing or x raying

You do not know what is going on inside the fitting.

 

Gaetan’s head rigger showed me a swage eye stud that he cut open with a band saw. It was on its last legs- the attached wire looked fine. He showed me a new swage that he had cut open from his rotary swaging machines. You could hardly see the strands of wire as the swage was so tight.

 

Kimberlite is in the open ocean 85 percent of the time, if not sitting in a hot marina with salt water down in the swages.  After 15 years , it was time for me to replace the rigging. I had previously mentioned that I replaced 3 pieces of wire and fittings at a very reputable St Maarten rigger due to the impending failure of the wire two fitting  and one fitting was cracked. That was 2 years ago.

However we have put a lot of miles on Kimberlite.

 

Rigging is like the line in dirty harry “how lucky do you feel?”

If you are just coastal cruising then I guess if the rig comes down and doesn’t kill anyone you will be fine.

However using an Amel for what it was built for , I would change the rig.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 3:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

 

 

Aletes SM#240 1999 is also facing the re-rigging decision. Various people and sources on internet search suggest wire rigging service life of 16, 12, or even 6 years. Most recommendations are by those with vested interest in replacements, ie. riggers and wire manufacturers. I have seen a Coast Guard report relating to failures on commercial catamarans in Hawaii that talk about 10 years. Finally I checked with our insurance agent. I figure if any entity has skin in the game (other than the boat owner/occupants) it would be the insurance industry. Our agent was quick to say that the insurance carriers are OK with standing rigging up to 20 years. Thereafter they will require detailed rigging inspections (not just looking up from the deck) every 2 to 5 years (depending on the insurer). This seems like a reasonable and reasoned way to address the aging rigging question and for me was comforting relative to the somewhat arbitrary nature of the shorter lifespan recommendations.

 

So. Here we are with an 18 year old boat that in Amel terms I would consider lightly used (probably less than 12 months total in the open ocean). We are looking at a $13K investment with Gaetan at Caraibe Marine, possibly later this month. This is not quite a case of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but it does feel like, if a  thorough inspection does not identify any problems, why replace a perfectly good rig, especially one this robust.

 

Anyway, we are leaning towards doing it. There seems to be no way to evaluate investing $13K in the equation of risk v. peace of mind.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 Falmouth, Antigua

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 11:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it..  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner not ed that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 

 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

Thomas Peacock
 

Hmmm….

Have you seen that video? I believe their boat is newer than ours.

On Jan 3, 2018, at 6:01 AM, Brent Cameron brentcameron61@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I’m a lurker here and love watching this forum for the very useful nuggets of information that leak out on a daily basis from the owners so don’t usually contribute but buried down in the original question on this topic was a statement: "BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig. “  

I can’t say whether or not this is actually true or not, but on a  passage from Bermuda to Antiqua this last November, there was an Amel (a Kirk I believe) that lost it’s rig in a series of squalls that two other Amel’s (Super Maramus - including the one I was crewimg  on) went through within radio distance of each other without drama.  The other Amel saw them and went over to lend some fuel so that they could make landfall as they were about 400 nautical miles from shore when it happened and weren’t sure they had enough to motor in.   I have left the names of the boats out in order to protect the privacy of the owners.   Also, there is a youtube episode of S/V Delos (another SM) on youtube where they re rigged her (they had the fittings professionally done in Thailand but did the installation themselves) and had cut one of the fittings apart  just as Eric mentioned with his sage advice - they found that it wasn’t far away from failing after being “inspected” bay a professional rigger.   I’d listen to Eric on this one…. (Back to lurking until I get my SM hopefully this fall).  

Brent Cameron,
Future SM Owner

On Jan 2, 2018, 10:44 PM -0500, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>, wrote:
 

Mike,

Rigging wire does not usually fail. The rigging usually fails at the fittings. Beside magna fluxing or x raying

You do not know what is going on inside the fitting.

 

Gaetan’s head rigger showed me a swage eye stud that he cut open with a band saw. It was on its last legs- the attached wire looked fine. He showed me a new swage that he had cut open from his rotary swaging machines. You could hardly see the strands of wire as the swage was so tight.

 

Kimberlite is in the open ocean 85 percent of the time, if not sitting in a hot marina with salt water down in the swages.  After 15 years , it was time for me to replace the rigging. I had previously mentioned that I replaced 3 pieces of wire and fittings at a very reputable St Maarten rigger due to the impending failure of the wire two fitting  and one fitting was cracked. That was 2 years ago.

However we have put a lot of miles on Kimberlite.

 

Rigging is like the line in dirty harry “how lucky do you feel?”

If you are just coastal cruising then I guess if the rig comes down and doesn’t kill anyone you will be fine.

However using an Amel for what it was built for , I would change the rig.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 3:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

 
 

Aletes SM#240 1999 is also facing the re-rigging decision. Various people and sources on internet search suggest wire rigging service life of 16, 12, or even 6 years. Most recommendations are by those with vested interest in replacements, ie. riggers and wire manufacturers. I have seen a Coast Guard report relating to failures on commercial catamarans in Hawaii that talk about 10 years. Finally I checked with our insurance agent. I figure if any entity has skin in the game (other than the boat owner/occupants) it would be the insurance industry. Our agent was quick to say that the insurance carriers are OK with standing rigging up to 20 years. Thereafter they will require detailed rigging inspections (not just looking up from the deck) every 2 to 5 years (depending on the insurer). This seems like a reasonable and reasoned way to address the aging rigging question and for me was comforting relative to the somewhat arbitrary nature of the shorter lifespan recommendations.

 

So. Here we are with an 18 year old boat that in Amel terms I would consider lightly used (probably less than 12 months total in the open ocean). We are looking at a $13K investment with Gaetan at Caraibe Marine, possibly later this month. This is not quite a case of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but it does feel like, if a  thorough inspection does not identify any problems, why replace a perfectly good rig, especially one this robust.

 

Anyway, we are leaning towards doing it. There seems to be no way to evaluate investing $13K in the equation of risk v. peace of mind.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 Falmouth, Antigua

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 11:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner not ed that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 
 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

Brent Cameron
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haiti

eric freedman
 

Kent,

My insurance company does not cover me in Haiti, However they do cover me in Colombia.

Insurance companies are just bookies, and the odds in their case does not look good for Haiti.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 8:53 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Haiti

 

 


Does anyone know anything about Haiti? Is it safe? How about International Relief Group? He puts boats with supplies headed for the islands, now dealing with Irma/Marie relief. Anybody have any dealings with him?
If you know anything please contact me privately at
karkauai@l at yahoo dot com
Thanks
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

eric freedman
 

Mike,

Rigging wire does not usually fail. The rigging usually fails at the fittings. Beside magna fluxing or x raying

You do not know what is going on inside the fitting.

 

Gaetan’s head rigger showed me a swage eye stud that he cut open with a band saw. It was on its last legs- the attached wire looked fine. He showed me a new swage that he had cut open from his rotary swaging machines. You could hardly see the strands of wire as the swage was so tight.

 

Kimberlite is in the open ocean 85 percent of the time, if not sitting in a hot marina with salt water down in the swages.  After 15 years , it was time for me to replace the rigging. I had previously mentioned that I replaced 3 pieces of wire and fittings at a very reputable St Maarten rigger due to the impending failure of the wire two fitting  and one fitting was cracked. That was 2 years ago.

However we have put a lot of miles on Kimberlite.

 

Rigging is like the line in dirty harry “how lucky do you feel?”

If you are just coastal cruising then I guess if the rig comes down and doesn’t kill anyone you will be fine.

However using an Amel for what it was built for , I would change the rig.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 3:06 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replacing standing rigging

 

 

Aletes SM#240 1999 is also facing the re-rigging decision. Various people and sources on internet search suggest wire rigging service life of 16, 12, or even 6 years. Most recommendations are by those with vested interest in replacements, ie. riggers and wire manufacturers. I have seen a Coast Guard report relating to failures on commercial catamarans in Hawaii that talk about 10 years. Finally I checked with our insurance agent. I figure if any entity has skin in the game (other than the boat owner/occupants) it would be the insurance industry. Our agent was quick to say that the insurance carriers are OK with standing rigging up to 20 years. Thereafter they will require detailed rigging inspections (not just looking up from the deck) every 2 to 5 years (depending on the insurer). This seems like a reasonable and reasoned way to address the aging rigging question and for me was comforting relative to the somewhat arbitrary nature of the shorter lifespan recommendations.

 

So. Here we are with an 18 year old boat that in Amel terms I would consider lightly used (probably less than 12 months total in the open ocean). We are looking at a $13K investment with Gaetan at Caraibe Marine, possibly later this month. This is not quite a case of “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” but it does feel like, if a  thorough inspection does not identify any problems, why replace a perfectly good rig, especially one this robust.

 

Anyway, we are leaning towards doing it. There seems to be no way to evaluate investing $13K in the equation of risk v. peace of mind.

 

Thoughts welcome.

 

Mike Ondra

Aletes SM#240 Falmouth, Antigua

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 11:48 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner not ed that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 

 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

eric freedman
 

Bill,

When a rigger uses inch size wire they also wind up using inch fittings.

That includes the clevis pins. The USA ones are slightly larger so the chain plates and many other things have to be  drilled out to fit.

 

Gaetan does use Acmo fittings throughout the re-rig. However he has spools of wire and just duplicated the rigging he takes down., less a little for stretching. He has a couple of rotary swaging machines, that I have never seen before except in very big yards. He replaces every nut , bolt and washer on the rig.

 

You can also save on the IVA by using an agent on the island to declare your boat in transit.

 

I originally wrote Acmo for the price of a complete set of rigging and Gaetan came in less expensive.

Please remember that AMEL has 3 places in the world that service their boats, The AMEL representative and chief  of the office Jean COLLIN  is on the dock all the time and checks on the progress of all work done to our boats.

I have work done on the watermaker and engine also done there and the work is exceptional.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 12:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

 

Bill,

 

Thanks for the information.

 

As you know, not all rigging wire is created equal, and rigging wire is made in metric and inch dimensions. I noted that you did not specify, but I am fairly sure that the rigging wire available in Seattle and possibly Trinidad are inch. My experience is that when riggers use inch dimensions, they use slightly smaller wire than the original metric dimensions than Amel uses.

 

Additionally, Chinese stainless steel is popping up everywhere. Did you ask for a certificate of origin or some other proof of country of manufacture? Also, I have seen many riggers use existing Amel rigging parts when re-rigging an Amel because they cannot source some parts, especially the small turnbuckle on the forestay.

 

Over the years I have seen many marine suppliers cave into the price pressure placed on them and when people only compare prices. Many of these suppliers give their customers what they ask for...the lowest price without regard to quality. The best examples of this are the very low quality products offered by Worst Marine.

 

Lastly, I am familiar with a Super Maramu owner that used the wrong rigger, who used bad materials about a year ago. He is going to sail to Martinique to have everything replaced again. Martinique isn't the only good place to replace Amel SM rigging, but they certainly are the most experienced on this side of the Atlantic. I have a quote from them done in 2016 for 9032..34 Euro. I am going to write Gaetan and ask what the difference is. I will CC you of the email.

 

I believe that you are on the right track, but there are other variables that you need to address in your comparisons.

 

Your current rigging lasted 22 years and on a recent circumnavigation. There has to be a reason that Amel OEM rigging outlasts other rigging by almost two times the norm. The OEM rigging is available in kit form and ready to install from ACMO, the OEM supplier to Amel for your boat. The kit includes everything down to the washers. Email philippe"at"acmo.fr

 

I hope this helps you.

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  
http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 

 

 

On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

 

 

Quote From  

          Euro              Labor

          Euro            Parts

        Euro          Total

    Dollars      Total

Trinidad - Jason Romell

1,513

6,607

8,119

$9662

Martinique - Caraibe Marine

3,429

8,106

11,535

$13,726

Seattle - Northwest Rigging

8,580

9,552

18,132

$21,577

Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By

150%

18%

57%

57%

Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By

127%

23%

42%

42%

NW Higher Than Trinidad By

467%

45%

123%

123%


I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

 

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

 

Bill Shaproski

S/V Pacific Cool

 



 

--

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] who does ONAN PCB board repairs?

eric freedman
 

Alex,

Did you look at the ground connection on the old board. On mine it was very slightly tarnished. I cleaned it up an

I was back in action.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

Where are you located?

A friend of mine repairs circuit boards regardless where they  came from.

He just fixed the circuit board on my high tech exercise bike that the factory said could not be repaired and no spares were available.

Unfortunately he is in Bogota.

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 1:56 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] who does ONAN PCB board repairs?

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I had to buy a new PCB board for my ONAN generator which finally seems to work fine for more than just a couple days...

I kept my old board, hoping to find someone who knows how to analyze faults and eventually repair this rather expensive part and then keep it as a spare.

So does anyone of you know somebody who could do this work?

Best regards,

Alex, SY NO STRESS

AMEL54 #15


Anyone need Climma AC parts?

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,
As you may know from my previous messages on this list, I've replaced all 3 of my Climma control systems with new third-party ones.  I'd like the removed parts to find a new life rather than end up in the landfill.  Here's what I have:

  • One fully-functional control panel (with temperature probe and harness).  I understand these are hard to come by, so I'd like $50 + shipping for it
  • Two partially-functional control panels which could perhaps be combined into one fully-functional one -- one has a bad switch, the other has a bad temperature probe.  Both have had the connectors cut off the harnesses, but they can be easily spliced back together.  Just pay shipping
  • Three control boxes in various states of disassembly (one without black plastic cover).  They all fully worked when taken apart.  They need a couple new internal wires (I had to cut a few to take it apart), and the capacitors may be due for replacing but I'll include them anyways.  Just pay shipping.
Let me know if anything strikes your fancy!

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

eric freedman
 

Bill,

I just had Kimberlite re-rigged by Gaetan in Martinique.

They do Amels all the time. When I was there ,69 Amels on the Pontons

 

Gaeta’s chief rigger has been rigging Amels for 25 years. They have all the genuine parts in stock. They also have the special turnbuckle that fits into the Geno Furler. They did Kimberlite in 2 days including having AMEL rebuild my genoa furler. They did it so effortlessly it was like they were on remote control.

They have all the right equipment. Most importantly they know how to tune the rig. The forces on the wire on Amels are a lot higher than most riggers would be happy with.

 

They even polished the chin plates when they changed the fittings.

 

I had some rigging change 2 years ago and the riggers did not have the huevos to tighten it up as Amel would.

 

If you want good clean hay you have to pay a fair price. If you want it cheaper you can always get it once it has been through the horse.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2018 12:24 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

 

I would go with Amel in Martinique.
I wouldn't be surprised 95% of the people pick the same choice.
They do rigging on Amel all the time - therefore make sure to be there and supervise...

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 1/2/18, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, January 2, 2018, 10:48 AM


 









I've been in the group a while but
don't often access it.  I' finishing up a
circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my
1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22
years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in
different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor
and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary
of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All
quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all
turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this
forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell
in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of
Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the
local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts
in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these
details since it may help other owners thinking of
re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by
Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I
provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a
rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  

Quote
From            Euro         
    Labor          Euro         
  Parts        Euro         
Total    Dollars     
TotalTrinidad - Jason
Romell1,5136,6078,119$9662Martinique -
Caraibe Marine3,4298,10611,535$13,726Seattle -
Northwest Rigging8,5809,55218,132$21,577Seattle Higher
Than Trinidad By150%18%57%57%Martinique
Higher
Than Trinidad By127%23%42%42%NW Higher
Than Trinidad By467%45%123%123%
I am trending toward the less expensive quote
from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But
I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from
Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken
Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was
quite happy.  
Any
comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!
Bill ShaproskiS/V Pacific
Cool




Haiti

karkauai
 

Does anyone know anything about Haiti? Is it safe? How about International Relief Group? He puts boats with supplies headed for the islands, now dealing with Irma/Marie relief. Anybody have any dealings with him?
If you know anything please contact me privately at
karkauai@l at yahoo dot com
Thanks
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Hatch Gaskets for SM

karkauai
 

Happy New Year!
Can anyone confirm that SM hatches are Goiot "Tradition"?
Thanks
Kent
SM 243
Kristy


Re: Mack Sails

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Pat, I've changed your thread from rigging to Mack Sails. When we bought Ocean Pearl in 2008 she had a full set of near new Mack sails. We must have done over 30,000 ocean miles before we changed the headsail and main. The mizzen  has 40,000 miles and still going. I was impressed with the sails from day  one and we did some really good passage times with them.
Pleased to do  a plug for a quality provider.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 3 Jan 2018 09:28, "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 


Bill, Does Acmo manufacture wire themselves or are they a distributor of wire ? Their website does not indicate they are a manufacturer of wire , seemed more they supplied rigging . From what Annapolis Rigging and other riggers such as Mack Sails say , it sounds like the highest quality of wire today , in their opinion is being manufactured in South Korea by KOS . I was just speaking with Mack and they said it may well be that ACMO also buys their wire from KOS .He said there is not many wire manufacturers left . He agreed that you need to certify your source as their is cheap wire out there , much from China. He also said that much name brand hardware is also from China and  one is lead to believe its manufactured elsewhere . 

Happy New Year,
Pat SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Bill,

Thanks for the information.

As you know, not all rigging wire is created equal, and rigging wire is made in metric and inch dimensions. I noted that you did not specify, but I am fairly sure that the rigging wire available in Seattle and possibly Trinidad are inch. My experience is that when riggers use inch dimensions, they use slightly smaller wire than the original metric dimensions than Amel uses.

Additionally, Chinese stainless steel is popping up everywhere. Did you ask for a certificate of origin or some other proof of country of manufacture? Also, I have seen many riggers use existing Amel rigging parts when re-rigging an Amel because they cannot source some parts, especially the small turnbuckle on the forestay.

Over the years I have seen many marine suppliers cave into the price pressure placed on them and when people only compare prices. Many of these suppliers give their customers what they ask for...the lowest price without regard to quality. The best examples of this are the very low quality products offered by Worst Marine.

Lastly, I am familiar with a Super Maramu owner that used the wrong rigger, who used bad materials about a year ago. He is going to sail to Martinique to have everything replaced again. Martinique isn't the only good place to replace Amel SM rigging, but they certainly are the most experienced on this side of the Atlantic. I have a quote from them done in 2016 for 9032..34 Euro. I am going to write Gaetan and ask what the difference is. I will CC you of the email.

I believe that you are on the right track, but there are other variables that you need to address in your comparisons.

Your current rigging lasted 22 years and on a recent circumnavigation. There has to be a reason that Amel OEM rigging outlasts other rigging by almost two times the norm. The OEM rigging is available in kit form and ready to install from ACMO, the OEM supplier to Amel for your boat. The kit includes everything down to the washers. Email philippe"at"acmo.fr

I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  


Quote From             Euro              Labor           Euro            Parts         Euro          Total     Dollars      Total
Trinidad - Jason Romell 1,513 6,607 8,119 $9662
Martinique - Caraibe Marine 3,429 8,106 11,535 $13,726
Seattle - Northwest Rigging 8,580 9,552 18,132 $21,577
Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By 150% 18% 57% 57%
Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By 127% 23% 42% 42%
NW Higher Than Trinidad By 467% 45% 123% 123%

I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool




--


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

Patrick McAneny
 

Craig, Its not that I in any way question the quality of AMCO , if they are good enough for Amel they are good enough for me. I looked at there website and could not determine if they produced their own wire or not , thus my question.
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: sangaris@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 5:59 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 

Pat,
If you visit ACMO's website you'll find they make their own fittings - ACMO stands for Modern Casting in French. They then fabricate rigging and architectural cables using outsourced cable, swaging their fittings to the cable, or optionally providing mechanical fittings.. Thus they are a manufacturer of fittings and a distributor of cable after it is fabricated to specification.
As AMEL's supplier I think you can trust the cable was determined to be of high quality, although I suppose you could query ACMO as to their source if you are not comfortable with their reputation.
Cheers,
Craig, SN#68

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Ian, So AMCO is a retailer or distributor not a manufacturer , I was not sure , and was trying to determine if they produced their own wire. 
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Hi Pat,

We had Pen Azen rerigged in Hyeres last year by the riggers that Amel always use there. They bought all the turnbuckles from ACMO but not the wire. They bought it direct from a German manufacturer from whom ACMO also buy their wire. They told me that this German company has pretty well a monopoly  in Europe on this quality of wire.

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: 02 January 2018 20:28:13
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique
 



Bill, Does Acmo manufacture wire themselves or are they a distributor of wire ? Their website does not indicate they are a manufacturer of wire , seemed more they supplied rigging . From what Annapolis Rigging and other riggers such as Mack Sails say , it sounds like the highest quality of wire today , in their opinion is being manufactured in South Korea by KOS . I was just speaking with Mack and they said it may well be that ACMO also buys their wire from KOS .He said there is not many wire manufacturers left . He agreed that you need to certify your source as their is cheap wire out there , much from China. He also said that much name brand hardware is also from China and  one is lead to believe its manufactured elsewhere . 
Happy New Year,
Pat SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Bill,

Thanks for the information.

As you know, not all rigging wire is created equal, and rigging wire is made in metr ic and inch dimensions. I noted that you did not specify, but I am fairly sure that the rigging wire available in Seattle and possibly Trinidad are inch. My experience is that when riggers use inch dimensions, they use slightly smaller wire than the original metric dimensions than Amel uses.

Additionally, Chinese stainless steel is popping up everywhere. Did you ask for a certificate of origin or some other proof of country of manufacture? Also, I have seen many riggers use existing Amel rigging parts when re-rigging an Amel because they cannot source some parts, especially the small turnbuckle on the forestay.

Over the years I have seen many marine suppliers cave into the price pressure placed on them and when people only compare prices. Many of these suppliers give their customers what they ask for...the lowest price without regard to quality. The best examples of this are the very low quality products offered by Worst Marine.

Lastly, I am familiar with a Super Maramu owner that used the wrong rigger, who used bad materials about a year ago. He is going to sail to Martinique to have everything replaced again. Martinique isn't the only good place to replace Amel SM rigging, but they certainly are the most experienced on this side of the Atlantic. I have a quote from them done in 2016 for 9032..34 Euro. I am going to write Gaetan and ask what the difference is. I will CC you of the email.

I believe that you are on the right track, but there are other variables that you need to address in your comparisons.

Your current rigging lasted 22 years and on a recent circumnavigation. There has to be a reason that Amel OEM rigging outlasts other rigging by almost two times the norm. The OEM rigging is available in kit form and ready to install from ACMO, the OEM supplier to Amel for your boat. The kit includes everything down to the washers. Email philippe"at"acmo.fr

I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  


Quote From             Euro              Labor           Euro            Parts         Euro          Total     Dollars      Total
Trinidad - Jason Romell 1,513 6,607 8,119 $9662
Martinique - Caraibe Marine 3,429 8,106 11,535 $13,726
Seattle - Northwest Rigging 8,580 9,552 18,132 $21,577
Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By 150% 18% 57% 57%
Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By 127% 23% 42% 42%
NW Higher Than Trinidad By 467% 45% 123% 123%

I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool




--




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

Craig Briggs
 


Pat,
If you visit ACMO's website you'll find they make their own fittings - ACMO stands for Modern Casting in French. They then fabricate rigging and architectural cables using outsourced cable, swaging their fittings to the cable, or optionally providing mechanical fittings.. Thus they are a manufacturer of fittings and a distributor of cable after it is fabricated to specification.
As AMEL's supplier I think you can trust the cable was determined to be of high quality, although I suppose you could query ACMO as to their source if you are not comfortable with their reputation.
Cheers,
Craig, SN#68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

Ian, So AMCO is a retailer or distributor not a manufacturer , I was not sure , and was trying to determine if they produced their own wire. 
Thanks,
Pat


-----Original Message-----
From: Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 4:17 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Hi Pat,

We had Pen Azen rerigged in Hyeres last year by the riggers that Amel always use there. They bought all the turnbuckles from ACMO but not the wire. They bought it direct from a German manufacturer from whom ACMO also buy their wire. They told me that this German company has pretty well a monopoly  in Europe on this quality of wire.

Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302 Greece

From: amelyachtowners@... <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: 02 January 2018 20:28:13
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique
 



Bill, Does Acmo manufacture wire themselves or are they a distributor of wire ? Their website does not indicate they are a manufacturer of wire , seemed more they supplied rigging . From what Annapolis Rigging and other riggers such as Mack Sails say , it sounds like the highest quality of wire today , in their opinion is being manufactured in South Korea by KOS . I was just speaking with Mack and they said it may well be that ACMO also buys their wire from KOS .He said there is not many wire manufacturers left . He agreed that you need to certify your source as their is cheap wire out there , much from China. He also said that much name brand hardware is also from China and  one is lead to believe its manufactured elsewhere . 
Happy New Year,
Pat SM #123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Jan 2, 2018 12:32 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Riggers In Trinidad and Martinique

 
Bill,

Thanks for the information.

As you know, not all rigging wire is created equal, and rigging wire is made in metric and inch dimensions. I noted that you did not specify, but I am fairly sure that the rigging wire available in Seattle and possibly Trinidad are inch. My experience is that when riggers use inch dimensions, they use slightly smaller wire than the original metric dimensions than Amel uses.

Additionally, Chinese stainless steel is popping up everywhere. Did you ask for a certificate of origin or some other proof of country of manufacture? Also, I have seen many riggers use existing Amel rigging parts when re-rigging an Amel because they cannot source some parts, especially the small turnbuckle on the forestay.

Over the years I have seen many marine suppliers cave into the price pressure placed on them and when people only compare prices. Many of these suppliers give their customers what they ask for...the lowest price without regard to quality. The best examples of this are the very low quality products offered by Worst Marine.

Lastly, I am familiar with a Super Maramu owner that used the wrong rigger, who used bad materials about a year ago. He is going to sail to Martinique to have everything replaced again. Martinique isn't the only good place to replace Amel SM rigging, but they certainly are the most experienced on this side of the Atlantic. I have a quote from them done in 2016 for 9032..34 Euro. I am going to write Gaetan and ask what the difference is. I will CC you of the email.

I believe that you are on the right track, but there are other variables that you need to address in your comparisons.

Your current rigging lasted 22 years and on a recent circumnavigation. There has to be a reason that Amel OEM rigging outlasts other rigging by almost two times the norm. The OEM rigging is available in kit form and ready to install from ACMO, the OEM supplier to Amel for your boat. The kit includes everything down to the washers. Email philippe"at"acmo.fr

I hope this helps you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Tue, Jan 2, 2018 at 10:48 AM, pacificcool@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
I've been in the group a while but don't often access it.  I' finishing up a circumnavigation and planning to replace the rigging on my 1995 Super Maramu.  It looks great to me, but it is 22 years old.  I have three quotes from different riggers in different countries. The costs vary greatly for both labor and parts, but especially labor.  I have included a summary of the quotes below broken down by labor and parts.  All quotes are for 316 stainless steel and includes all turnbuckles and upper eye pieces.  My question to this forum is whether any of you have knowledge of Jason Romell in Trinidad.  I've had good reports on Gaetan of Caraibe Marine  in Martinique who is recommended by the local Amel office.   Romell is recommended by Peake Yachts in Trinidad where my boat is on the hard.  I include these details since it may help other owners thinking of re-rigging.  BTW, one owner noted that he was told by Gaetan that he had never seen an Amel with a failed rig.  I provide the costs in Euros and US Dollars converted at a rate of 1.19 US dollars per Euro.  


Quote From             Euro              Labor           Euro            Parts         Euro          Total     Dollars      Total
Trinidad - Jason Romell 1,513 6,607 8,119 $9662
Martinique - Caraibe Marine 3,429 8,106 11,535 $13,726
Seattle - Northwest Rigging 8,580 9,552 18,132 $21,577
Seattle Higher Than Trinidad By 150% 18% 57% 57%
Martinique Higher Than Trinidad By 127% 23% 42% 42%
NW Higher Than Trinidad By 467% 45% 123% 123%

I am trending toward the less expensive quote from Trinidad contingent on meeting Jason on Friday.  But I'm very tempted to go for the more expensive quote from Martinique given the recommendation form Amel.   Ken Powers had Aquarius rigged in Martinique last year and was quite happy.  

Any comments appreciated.  Happy New Year to all!

Bill Shaproski
S/V Pacific Cool




--