Date   

Insurance. Does it deliver

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,

As I said before I was burned badly by an insurance company. I changed brokers and have a "agreed value" policy with my new broker.

I forwarded him some of the correspondence because, firstly I wanted him to know what was going on and secondly to see what he said regarding my "agreed Value" policy. He has sent me a response which is helpful. He does have a good name. Is it OK for me to share his reply with the group. I'm not trying to promote him, just to add something that may be helpful.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Mangonui 
New Zealand


On 16 February 2018 at 06:42 "Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 

Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed...
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land...
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtown

Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insurance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246











 

 


 


Boat Insurance

eric freedman
 

FYI,

I spoke to Pantaenius America Ltd today and asked them to explain how they handle agreed on value. They said they would pay policy limits if the boat was a total loss, or whatever it costs to repair it up to the policy limits.

They would not deny my claim for a BBQ on the rail.

 

They also stated that they pay for damage to the marina, and salvage and disposal of a yacht.

They insisted that they walk me through the policy so there was no misunderstandings.

It is rather clear in their policy that they are correct and straight shooters.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:33 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 

 

Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more than the market value).
That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that 1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value, 2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the average, etc..
So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all the details.
We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an “agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you want I can show the specific section where what I just explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


 










I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now
have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that
would help in the case of a write off.DannySM
299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Dear Rafael,


I think you need to tell
the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance
Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think
every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they
used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to
tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will
write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that
your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did
not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie
<no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear
friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be
the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane
Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be
impossible for me to
recover it.The
insurance will only pay a fraction of
what
it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only
destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams
of living on board with my
wife, my dreams
of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other
seas
and finally returning to the beautiful
South of
Chile.
In this
group I gained friends
and knowledge and
for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.

If
you sail to Chile you will have a
friend
here.Greetings to

all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k
246





 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Copper-Coat AntiFouling

Mark Erdos
 

Ruedi, if you search here you will find many opinions for and against. Perhaps less for Copper-Coat. My question to you is, where are the savings if you need to haul your Amel every couple of years anyway for prop and c-drive maintenance? A big factor in the savings talked about in the Copper-Coat literature is not having to haul the boat and the boat yard savings. This is not the case with Amels.

 

You don’t say where you are located. Is there a qualified yard that knows how to mix and apply Copper-Coat near you. I was told by Copper-Coat there was are yard near me when I was in Florida. I asked the yard how many boats they had done. The answer was only one.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Dominica

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:09 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Copper-Coat AntiFouling

 

 

Dear Amel'ies 

 

Maybe you had an earlier conversation on this topic already? I'm new here so I don't know.

 

Copper-coat AF seems to be attractive if it lasts 10 and more years, despite the fact of the high price. 

But I'm not sure all is right what I have read in the Internet.I have seen many articles and different opinions about copper-coat antifouling, some of them are very controversial. 



So I would like to know from this group your experience with it, if someone have done this. 

 

Thanks and best regards

Ruedi


Copper-Coat AntiFouling

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Dear Amel'ies 


Maybe you had an earlier conversation on this topic already? I'm new here so I don't know.


Copper-coat AF seems to be attractive if it lasts 10 and more years, despite the fact of the high price. 

But I'm not sure all is right what I have read in the Internet.I have seen many articles and different opinions about copper-coat antifouling, some of them are very controversial. 


So I would like to know from this group your experience with it, if someone have done this. 


Thanks and best regards

Ruedi


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow Thruster Actuator Wiring

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

This is good. I would like to use the information you sketched to make a formal wiring diagram. 

Couple of questions:
  1. Are the colors you used representative of the actual wire colors?
  2. It appears that you did not finish the "Key," with only H2 listed. Do you plan to complete it?
  3. Do you have a photo of the termination of these wires at the PCB inside the control box?
  4. Do I have your permission to use this to make a final wiring diagram?
Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970



On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 11:34 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ever wonder how the BT Actuator works?  When I had the circuit board out of the BT Actuator Control Box, I traced all the wires back to the locker above the sink.  I posted a photo of the circuit diagram, and I'll try to copy it in here.  


Keep in mind that your setup may be different, Bill R has noted there are at least three configurations on the SM.  There is an Amel sketch of the wiring dated in the 90's, but it wasn't very close to the wiring on my boat.


Tracing all the wires helped me to finally find the bad connection.  This issue was one where the BT had two problems, a bad limit switch, and a faulty connection of the hot wire to the on/off switch.


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477




--


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Condensation on bottom of freezer?

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

OK, that is a new one on me. I must not remember that area correctly, or maybe your SM2k is different than #387 and all of the others I have been on. There was no way to store anything under the fridge/freezer. The following is the cavity for the fridge/freezer with it removed. The open port is the tank inspection port. Maybe you mean condensation inside the floor locker under the dining table????

The next photo is the entire fridge/freezer removed. Please explain where you got your hand "under" the unit and felt condensation.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Bow Thruster Actuator Wiring

Chuck_Kim_Joy
 

Thanks Duane,
Your right the old sketch floating around didn't help me much. This is much better for my age boat. Thanks for doing/sharing. You are fast becoming a subject matter expert in BTs

Chuck 

On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:34 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Ever wonder how the BT Actuator works?  When I had the circuit board out of the BT Actuator Control Box, I traced all the wires back to the locker above the sink.  I posted a photo of the circuit diagram, and I'll try to copy it in here.  


Keep in mind that your setup may be different, Bill R has noted there are at least three configurations on the SM.  There is an Amel sketch of the wiring dated in the 90's, but it wasn't very close to the wiring on my boat.


Tracing all the wires helped me to finally find the bad connection.  This issue was one where the BT had two problems, a bad limit switch, and a faulty connection of the hot wire to the on/off switch.


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alexandre,

well that settles that. Forget agreed value. 

Regards

Danny

On 16 February 2018 at 00:32 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more than the market value).
That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that 1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value, 2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the average, etc..
So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all the details.
We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an “agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you want I can show the specific section where what I just explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


 










I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now
have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that
would help in the case of a write off.DannySM
299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Dear Rafael,


I think you need to tell
the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance
Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think
every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they
used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to
tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will
write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that
your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did
not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie
<no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear
friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be
the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane
Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be
impossible for me to
recover it.The
insurance will only pay a fraction of
what
it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only
destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams
of living on board with my
wife, my dreams
of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other
seas
and finally returning to the beautiful
South of
Chile.
In this
group I gained friends
and knowledge and
for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.

If
you sail to Chile you will have a
friend
here.Greetings to

all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k
246





 




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Patrick McAneny
 

Alexandre, Trust me, I for one will reread my policy with a more critical eye. Its disgusting how an insurance company would look for any excuse , even an invalid one to escape their responsibly . I will guarantee that the vast majority of boaters are not aware of these practices, and believe that they have an umbrella of protection , that in reality does not exist. I urge you guys to find a way to tell your story to a wider audience. 
Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 9:11 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed..
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land..
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>

To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@...


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insurance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@...>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@...


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246












Bow Thruster Actuator Wiring

Duane Siegfri
 

Ever wonder how the BT Actuator works?  When I had the circuit board out of the BT Actuator Control Box, I traced all the wires back to the locker above the sink.  I posted a photo of the circuit diagram, and I'll try to copy it in here.  


Keep in mind that your setup may be different, Bill R has noted there are at least three configurations on the SM.  There is an Amel sketch of the wiring dated in the 90's, but it wasn't very close to the wiring on my boat.


Tracing all the wires helped me to finally find the bad connection.  This issue was one where the BT had two problems, a bad limit switch, and a faulty connection of the hot wire to the on/off switch.


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Condensation on bottom of freezer?

Duane Siegfri
 

I was hoping for a "gee, just do this and Voila!  ees all better!"  But as long as there isn't a bigger problem causing it, no big deal.

Thanks Bill,
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Hello Pat,

I totally agree with you Danny.

This is why my lawyer said it was a rip off to start with.
You are paying in good faith a higher premium thinking you are covered, but you are not.

I URGE everybody to read their insurance policies.
Most of you probably never even receive it (I had to ask for mine).

I think as a boating community, if we group ourselves we have a way to make things better.

Example on my insurance policy it says in case of a name storm approaching you have to:
remove anything that offers wind resistance which is: bimini, sails, lazy bags, blade of wind turbine, dinghy, etc. these items must be removed and store inside the boat. As Rafael tragically find out, this also include barbecues. That is why they say “anything” even if not listed.
Then it says the boom must be attached to the deck.
Then you have to close all unnecessary sea cock.
Valuable objects such as electronics must be disassembled and store on land.
Then you have to “triple” the number of normal fenders, dock lines, etc.
IF YOU FAIL TO DO ANY OF THESE, the policy is canceled.

I really implore Rafael to tell his story…

Last week I met a french guy, so we chat, he used to be hired by insurance adjuster to find “anything” on a boat. He said, if there was a fire, the insurance adjuster would hire him to find any electrical welding (if I understood properly), as soon as they find 1, even if it is at the top of the mast, the policy is void and they don’t reimburse.
He said he was disgusted and like many sailor I met now simply has liability.

Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 2/15/18, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:15 AM


 









The
insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value ,
and then only will pay out based on what they determine the
market value is, because they don't want you to be
enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging
excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended
to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the
entire boating community through the internet and sailing
magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate
their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they
will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company
cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the
reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a
dream .
Pat 

SM Shenanigans






-----Original
Message-----

From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>

To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtown

Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye








 













Good morning Danny,





I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de
Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it
is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right
to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market
value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case
of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the
agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more
than the market value).


That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to
compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that
1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value,
2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher
agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the
average, etc...


So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all
the details.


We have been working since November on this.





So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an
“agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you
want I can show the specific section where what I just
explained is written. That will be in french in my case.





Sincerely, Alexandre





--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye


To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com


Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM








 
































I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now


have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope
that


would help in the case of a write off.DannySM


299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19


"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com


[amelyachtowners]"


<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





  Dear Rafael,








I think you need to tell


the Group “your” story about the insurance.





We have the same insurance


Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think


every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they


used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.





It is not “my” place to


tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I
will


write mine with all the details when it will be settled.






I am definitely sorry that


your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and
did


not had the joy of sailing her.





Sincerely, Alexandre








--------------------------------------------


On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie


<no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:





Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying


goodbye


To:


amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com


Date:


Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM








 





























Dear


friends AMEL ownersProbably this


will be


the last email that I send and I will withdraw from


the group. The reason is that Hurricane


Irma


destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be


impossible for me to


recover it.The


insurance will only pay a fraction of


what


it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and


other reasons.This situation not only


destroyed my


ship but my dreams. My dreams


of living on board with my


wife, my dreams


of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my





dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other


seas


and finally returning to the beautiful


South of


Chile.


In this


group I gained friends


and knowledge and


for that, I thank each and every one of





you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the
beginning


helped me with their advice.





If


you sail to Chile you will have a


friend


here.Greetings to





all


Fair


windsRafaelSM2k


246


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

HI Rafael,
I am sorry for your loss. I understand you. I also have special relation to my boat. I treasure her more than my house. She is almost part of a family.

If you have some spare parts to sell, I will be interested paticulaly headsail furling. Write me
 sonsev52 at gmail.


Vladimir
SM 345 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Feb 15, 2018 07:34, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more than the market value).
That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that 1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value, 2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the average, etc..
So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all the details.
We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an “agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you want I can show the specific section where what I just explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


 










I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now
have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that
would help in the case of a write off.DannySM
299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Dear Rafael,


I think you need to tell
the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance
Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think
every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they
used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to
tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will
write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that
your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did
not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie
<no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear
friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be
the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane
Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be
impossible for me to
recover it.The
insurance will only pay a fraction of
what
it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only
destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams
of living on board with my
wife, my dreams
of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other
seas
and finally returning to the beautiful
South of
Chile.
In this
group I gained friends
and knowledge and
for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.

If
you sail to Chile you will have a
friend
here.Greetings to

all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k
246





 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Patrick McAneny
 

The insurance company based the premiums on the Agreed value , and then only will pay out based on what they determine the market value is, because they don't want you to be enriched ! Did they not enrich themselves by charging excessive premiums for coverage they probably never intended to honor ? This kind of information needs to get out to the entire boating community through the internet and sailing magazines . I encourage anyone treated unfairly to relate their story , if  it results in lost business maybe they will get the message. If 10% of those covered by a company cancelled and took their business elsewhere and gave the reason why , it would get their attention. Its sad to lose a dream .
Pat 
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Thu, Feb 15, 2018 6:34 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

 
Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more than the market value).
That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that 1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value, 2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the average, etc..
So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all the details.
We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an “agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you want I can show the specific section where what I just explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


 










I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now
have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that
would help in the case of a write off.DannySM
299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

  Dear Rafael,


I think you need to tell
the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance
Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think
every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they
used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to
tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will
write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that
your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did
not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie
<no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear
friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be
the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane
Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be
impossible for me to
recover it.The
insurance will only pay a fraction of
what
it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only
destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams
of living on board with my
wife, my dreams
of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other
seas
and finally returning to the beautiful
South of
Chile.
In this
group I gained friends
and knowledge and
for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.

If
you sail to Chile you will have a
friend
here.Greetings to

all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k
246





 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Danny,

I also have an “agreed” policy (from Helvetia through de Lassee), BUT as my lawyer told me, this is a rip off as, it is written on the contrat that the insurance has the right to challenge the “agreed value” and pay only the market value because the owner would “enrich” himself if case of a total loss. (meaning that: if you are reimburse the agreed value, you would “enrich” yourself getting more than the market value).
That is what my insurance is doing, so my lawyer ask me to compile all the invoices for the last 5 years to prove that 1) vessel was better equipped justifying the agreed value, 2) vessel was better maintained (justifying the higher agreed value) 3) that my expenses were higher than the average, etc.
So now I have my own adjuster writing a full report with all the details.
We have been working since November on this.

So for anyone thinking they are safely covered with an “agreed” value, please read your entire policy. If you want I can show the specific section where what I just explained is written. That will be in french in my case.

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 2/14/18, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@xtra.co.nz [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 10:51 PM


 










I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now
have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that
would help in the case of a write off.DannySM
299 Ocean PearlOn 15 February 2018 at 11:19
"Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners]"
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

  Dear Rafael,


I think you need to tell
the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance
Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think
every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they
used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to
tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will
write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that
your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did
not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre


--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie
<no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying
goodbye
To:
amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date:
Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear
friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be
the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane
Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be
impossible for me to
recover it.The
insurance will only pay a fraction of
what
it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only
destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams
of living on board with my
wife, my dreams
of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my

dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other
seas
and finally returning to the beautiful
South of
Chile.
In this
group I gained friends
and knowledge and
for that, I thank each and every one of

you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.

If
you sail to Chile you will have a
friend
here.Greetings to

all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k
246


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

I too have been raped by insurers in the past. I now have a policy with an "agreed Value" . I hope that would help in the case of a write off.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 15 February 2018 at 11:19 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Rafael,

I think you need to tell the Group “your” story about the insurance.

We have the same insurance Helvetia contracted through de Lassee and I really think every Amel owner should know the ridiculous excuses they used to remove 30% of the value of your boat.

It is not “my” place to tell everybody the way they treated “you”, but I will write mine with all the details when it will be settled.

I am definitely sorry that your vessel was destroy soon after you purchased her and did not had the joy of sailing her.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 2/14/18, rcavie <no_reply@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel owner saying goodbye
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 1:57 PM


 









Dear friends AMEL ownersProbably this
will be the last email that I send and I will withdraw from
the group. The reason is that Hurricane Irma
destroyed my Amel SM2k and it will be impossible for me to
recover it.The insurance will only pay a fraction of
what it would cost me to buy an equal one. Deductibles and
other reasons.This situation not only destroyed my
ship but my dreams. My dreams of living on board with my
wife, my dreams of crossing the Atlantic to the East, my
dreams of sailing the Mediterranean and perhaps other seas
and finally returning to the beautiful South of
Chile.
In this group I gained friends
and knowledge and for that, I thank each and every one of
you, especially Eric and Alexandre who from the beginning
helped me with their advice.
If
you sail to Chile you will have a friend
here.Greetings to
all
Fair
windsRafaelSM2k 246





 


Re: Condensation on bottom of freezer?

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

The problem is that Amel was no better than other boat builders when it came to insulating cold boxes.  You have two choices.  You either live with it, or rip things apart and properly insulate it and end up with a box with a smaller interior volume.  

A proper freezer should have, as a minimum, 4 inches of insulation. Six would be better.  Most boat builders would never consider this because it makes the inside of the box look too small at the boat show. My Amel installed box has no more than 2 inches.  It will sweat.  The real problem is that all that condensation is wasted energy.

There is no substitute for real, effective insulation. And there is certainly no easy way to retrofit this. We live with the minimally effective insulation that came with our boat. But, every time I feel the see condensation, or feel the cold on the exterior of the box, I grit my teeth and wish for better.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Freeport, Bahamas


Re: Condensation on bottom of freezer?

Duane Siegfri
 

Hi Eric,

Thanks for your reply.

I meant to say the outside bottom of the freezer.  You can reach underneath it from the deck locker to stbd.  The seals are in good-enough condition, they are on my long term maintenance list to replace though.

Duane


Re: Condensation on bottom of freezer?

Duane Siegfri
 

Hi Bill,

It's on the outside bottom of the freezer that is just forward of the washing machine.  I have tools in the below deck locker (between the washing machine and the drawers on the aft end of the love seat) and the tool bags were wet.  I stuck my hand in that deck locker  and under the freezer and the outside bottom of the freezer was soaking wet.  There is no water pooled in the aforementioned deck locker, but the tool bags were wet.

The freezer is operating normally, and the condensor and compressor are free of ice or dust.  The food in the freezer is frozen and the "floor" of the freezer is clear of ice so I don't think it went through a thaw and refroze.

We had just defrosted the refrigerator but there was no water on the top of the water tank between the freezer and the washing machine, so it doesn't seem to have come from there.

It seems likely that it's condensation.  We had some water near the rudder quadrant from condensation, and some in the pan of the forward air conditioning unit.  I thought the freezer insulated well enough that it wouldn't condense water but it's been extremely humid and cool.  Add to that two humans breathing out water vapor and I guess it's not surprising.

Thanks for your thoughts Bill!
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Condensation on bottom of freezer?

eric freedman
 

Hi,

Did does the freezer evaporator also Ice up?

Did you do the dollar bill check on the seals?

It seems unusual that there would be water and not ice on  the inside bottom of your freezer

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:07 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Condensation on bottom of freezer?

 

 

I'm having a lot of condensation on the bottom of the freezer.  It's winter here in Georgia with humidity in the 60 to 85% range, and temperatures in the 50's and 60's.  Water temp is right there as well.  

 

Is this normal for the conditions or is there something else I should look for?  We're not running the air conditioning so it's not the condensate pan.

 

Thanks,

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477