Re: &#92;Generator speed vs frequency

Craig Briggs

Hi Eric,
While you're totally correct as far as you go, you're speaking only of the legacy style generators like you and I have, where, obviously, it's 1500/1800 or 3000/3600 rpm.
However, the new ONAN's run at 2400 and 2900 rpm and there are variable speed generators out there. ONAN talks about 2/3 winding's and stuff like that and the variable speeds use magic.
If any of us are considering replacements it would certainly be worth some research to update our knowledge and learn about the modern products.
For example, a variable speed generator that, by design, always runs at an optimum rpm for whatever load is presented sounds super - plus it seems like it would be at a lower/quieter rpm if its only got a light battery charging load, which many of us may be doing much of the time. The newer ONAN's running at 2400 or 2900 may be at a better spot in the engine's power curve than 1500 or 1800.  Maybe even why ONAN changed the design.
Cheers,
Craig, SN#68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi Craig,

The frequency of AC is determined by the

RPM of the genset.

It would not be feasible to change the speed .

Generators consist of an engine directly connected to an alternator to produce electricity. One of the most common ways of changing the output frequency of a generator is to change the rotation speed of the engine.

The two factors are related as per the following formula –
Generator Frequency (f) =
Number of revolutions per minute of the engine (N) * Number of magnetic poles (P) / 120
Conversely, P = 120*f/N

As per the above formulae, a 2-pole generator producing an output frequency of 60 Hz has an engine speed of 3,600 rpm. To change the output frequency to 50 Hz for the same generator configuration, the engine speed needs to be reduced to 3,000 rpm. Similarly, for a 4-pole generator, an engine speed of 1,800 rpm produces output of 60 Hz. Reducing the engine speed to 1,500 rpm yields an output of 50 Hz.

Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 12:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

Hi Eric,

I googled the spec sheet on your MDKAV and it says it runs at 1500 rpm. It's the newer model that runs at 2900 rpm. I should think a variable speed would be great at it would always present a full load to the engine, regardless of rpm.  Oh well, next boat.

Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Craig,

My Onan is a MDKAV model and I don’t have the slightest idea how many rpm the 3 cylinder Kubota is running at. However it puts out 220-230 volts at 50 cycles.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternating hot and cold water in showers

philipp.sollberger@...

Hi Mohammed,

Thank's a lot for your suggestions. The hot water plumbing route is more restricted than the cold water. This can be a understandable case. I have never thought about it. I will have a look tomorrow and on Monday I will ask also the AMEL guys here in La Rochelle.
First I will examine if the pressure decreased during winter pause in the water tubes. If this would be the case, then I think, I should have the same effect also on all other water taps as in galley, sinks in the bathroom and so one.

Many thanks for all these good suggestions which give me a funny Sunday job. Let's hope, that I will find the solution.

Fair winds,

Philipp

---In amelyachtowners@..., <mshirloo@...> wrote :

Hello Philipp;

I'm not familiar with the exact plumbing on a SM. However, since most plumbing should be similar, I can think of two possibilities:

1. The hot water plumbing route is more restricted than the cold. This could be anywhere in the lines, the water heater, etc. Therefore when the pump is running and you have increased pressure in the water system, there is more pressure in the cold water line than the hot. This would result in more cold water pressure at the shower valve, resulting in colder water.
2. If the shower valve has been changed to an anti- scald one, the anti-scald mechanism may be failing. I believe this to be less likely.
Keep in my mind that I am not familiar with the SM plumbing and systems in any way. These are just a couple of general suggestions.

Respectfully;
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: AW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternating hot and cold water in showers

Hi Philipp

That sounds like you have no pressure on your accumulator tank. Between coldwater pump and hot-water-tank you will find the accumulator tank. You can check the pressure via a valve, like car tires. The recomended pressure you may be find in a tank manual. What cold water pump model do you have?
Fair winds
Peter
Wilson, SM 003, La Rochelle

Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Samstag, März 17, 2018, 10:05 schrieb philipp.sollberger@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

Hi All owners from "old" Super Maramus,

I have the situation, that on my SM #124 I have alternating hot and warm water in the showers. The cold water is this season in La Rochelle real cold, that I feel it very directly. Each moment, when the pressure pump is working, the cold water arrives and the warm water gets cold with the effect, that you get cold shocking moment for some seconds and afterwards the warm shower water arrives again, till the water pressure pump starts working..

Does anybody have an idea how I can eliminate this strange and uncomfortable effect?

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

Fair winds,

Philipp Sollberger,

Félicie, SM #124

Re: Alternating hot and cold water in showers

philipp.sollberger@...

Hi Peter,
Nice to read from you. We are just in La Rochelle and Wilson is looking good!
Tomorrow I will examine the pressure on the cold water tank and also on the boiler for the hot water.

The pressure difference can be an anwer for the uncomfortable situation.

Thank's a lot.

Fair winds,

Philipp

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GPS Antenna below deck?

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS

Hi.

Interestingly we had a near miss lightning event some years ago. An electrical surge came into the boat, a lot through the radar and the aerials. We had two identical backup Furuno digital GPS mounted at the nav station. The aerial for one was mounted outside on the rail, the other under the deck near the nav station. The one fed by the external was cooked, the internal aerial unit was fine.

Another thought: On a previous yacht with much lower freeboard than the Amel we had a GPS aerial mounted internally near the nav station. Offshore in big swells it at times lost satellites as there were hidden behind the swells. (the South Pacific between New Zealand and the Pacific islands can haves BIG swells) By putting the aerial a little higher we overcame the problem. Obviously these satellites must have been near the horizon.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 17 March 2018 at 09:23 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Fiberglass is mostly transparent to radio waves, so it should have only a tiny impact on signal strength.  But GPS (and any satellite) signals are already very weak, so it might be enough to cause you to "see" fewer satellites than you would with a clear view of the sky.  It shouldn't cause any position error.  Take care that your sensor isn't behind any metal or wood, or even some kinds of paint, which can block signals.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:04 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

In tracing down the wiring on the boat I've found another GPS antenna!

It provides position data to the ACR Nauticast B AIS.  It was installed in the ceiling space above the midship cabin (just fwd of the aft cabin), attached with silicone to the overhead, and it had fallen over and must have been rolling around up there in a heavy sea.

We've always had good results from the Nauticast so I'm likely to leave it there, unless there's a good reason not to?   Of course I'll improve the mounting situation.

&#92;Generator speed vs frequency

eric freedman

Hi Craig,

The frequency of AC is determined by the

RPM of the genset.

It would not be feasible to change the speed .

Generators consist of an engine directly connected to an alternator to produce electricity. One of the most common ways of changing the output frequency of a generator is to change the rotation speed of the engine.

The two factors are related as per the following formula –
Generator Frequency (f) =
Number of revolutions per minute of the engine (N) * Number of magnetic poles (P) / 120
Conversely, P = 120*f/N

As per the above formulae, a 2-pole generator producing an output frequency of 60 Hz has an engine speed of 3,600 rpm. To change the output frequency to 50 Hz for the same generator configuration, the engine speed needs to be reduced to 3,000 rpm. Similarly, for a 4-pole generator, an engine speed of 1,800 rpm produces output of 60 Hz. Reducing the engine speed to 1,500 rpm yields an output of 50 Hz.

Fair Winds
Eric
Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 12:51 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

Hi Eric,

I googled the spec sheet on your MDKAV and it says it runs at 1500 rpm. It's the newer model that runs at 2900 rpm. I should think a variable speed would be great at it would always present a full load to the engine, regardless of rpm.  Oh well, next boat.

Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Craig,

My Onan is a MDKAV model and I don’t have the slightest idea how many rpm the 3 cylinder Kubota is running at. However it puts out 220-230 volts at 50 cycles.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

Craig Briggs

Hi Eric,
I googled the spec sheet on your MDKAV and it says it runs at 1500 rpm. It's the newer model that runs at 2900 rpm. I should think a variable speed would be great at it would always present a full load to the engine, regardless of rpm.  Oh well, next boat.
Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Craig,

My Onan is a MDKAV model and I don’t have the slightest idea how many rpm the 3 cylinder Kubota is running at. However it puts out 220-230 volts at 50 cycles.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

Good day to all,

For those of you who are fairly new to their boats and are not completely sure that the previous owner ran their generators at the proper load or whether that is effective enough, I would urge you to take the time to remove your Onan exhaust elbow and inspect for carbon build up.

We purchased our SM a little over a year ago.  The previous owners were adamant with me to always run the Onan with a high load when they generously spent four weeks with me during the purchase transfer/training period, and I adhered to this regimen.

A few weeks ago, the generator started acting up.  At first, it would not handle a full load, then, it would not run at all.

When I inspected the exhaust elbow, I found it was about 75% clogged with carbon, and the exit port on the exhaust manifold was nearly 100% clogged.  I was hopeful that cleaning both the manifold and elbow would solve our problem, but it was too late.  The back pressure from the exhaust must have broken some of the piston rings as only one of the 3 cylinders had compression that met specs.

This was an unnecessary early death for unit that only had 3300 hours on it.  I read on the forum about another owner who found similar deposits at only 2000 hours, allthough I believe he was able to save his.

We could rebuild the engine, but we have decided to replace the whole unit instead and remove major components for spares.  We are going to do the work in Martinique as soon as the new unit arrives.

Checking the elbow was on my ‘todo’ list, but too far down to get to in time.

As the previous owners were insistent that the unit be run at high load, I’m not sure if this is a case of them not always practicing what they preached, or if the design is just prone to clogging.  For this reason I urge you all who may be unsure of current conditions to do an inspection.  I am planning on checking the new one after every 500 hours or so until I can acquire enough empirical data.

All the best,

Paul Stascavage
SM #466 - s/v Rita Kathryn
Rodney Bay Marina

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

eric freedman

If you also have a Raymarine Chart plotter, make sure that the nmea output from the course computer runs directly to the Chart plotter.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 11:25 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

I should mention that our main GPS sensor and the AIS GPS sensor, both from B&G, came with big warnings that these should not be installed up the mast.  So both were installed at deck level.

Incidentally, I recall noticing that Amel is now installing what look to be a couple of GPS antennas on deck, forward of the pilot's windshield.  I saw this on either a '64 or a '55 in La Rochelle.

Along the same lines, the Amel-factory Furuno heading sensor that was original to #350 sat at nearly water level in the forward closet opposite of the head.  We now have replaced it with a B&G heading sensor sitting in the same little shelf.

Finally, the original Amel-factory Raytheon/Raymarine heading sensor is still outboard of the dining table, behind the seat, and just aft of the air conditioning vent, i.e, just above the waterline.  It works very well and still provides reliable heading to the Raytheon autopilot.

Cheers,

Peregrinus

SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)

At anchor, Spinalonga, Candia (Crete)

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

eric freedman

Craig,

My Onan is a MDKAV model and I don’t have the slightest idea how many rpm the 3 cylinder Kubota is running at. However it puts out 220-230 volts at 50 cycles.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 10:40 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Generator load, carbon buildup, etc.

Hi Eric,

Sorry, didn't mean to sound cheeky. I think your Onan has the same Kubota 3 cylinder engine as my Northern Lights, but whereas mine operates at 1800 rpm (I've got it set for 60 Hz 110v) I see the spec on the Cummins Onan says it operates at 2900 RPM (that's the Onan QD 6/7.5/8 KW Generator that seems to be their current model). I think I just stepped out of my knowledge level - how do they get 50Hz at 2900 rpm?

Cheers, Craig SN#68

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Craig,

Of course the generator does not have a variable speed.

What I meant is that we usually do not run the genset under enough load.

80 percent of the output of a 7.5 kw genset, I believe should be a usage of about 27 amps.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From:
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 9:49 AM

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

Hi Eric,

You bring up an interesting point when you say you had the same carbon build up problem in your genset exhaust elbow, caused by not running at high enough rpm's. Unless you've got a variable speed genset, it always will be running at a high rpm (3000 or 3600 depending on Hertz), so rpm may not be the only issue. Isn't it low load that's the issue?

So when Yanmar says to run the engine way up, no doubt they're assuming it will be in gear and will present a full load from the propeller. I think the genset analogy would be to load it with not just battery charging, but also get the Admiral to run her hair dryer, make toast, wash clothes and iron your shorts. Not a bad regimen, actually.

Cheers, Craig SN#68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi,

I had his problem with my genset. It is caused by not running a diesel at about 80% of its redline. Diesels like to work hard. Our diesels are not run that hard so is the main engine.

Yanmar suggests to run the engine way up. In my case 3000 rpm for 15 minutes  a few time a day

This blows the carbon out of the turbo and the exhaust system.

The carbon is usually glass hard.

However if the elbow is not perforated due to corrosion, I would try  to break out the carbon.

You might try something like a dremel tool with a hard steel bit, or even better a carbide bit ,or a small cutoff disk. Being that they have ordered a new elbow for you,  you could go Medieval” on the elbow.

On eBay there is a fellow that makes beautiful Yanmar elbows out of stainless steel. They are much better than the factory unit. Possibly he makes elbows for your engine.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Whisker pole

JEFFREY KRAUS

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternating hot and cold water in showers

Hello Philipp;

I'm not familiar with the exact plumbing on a SM. However, since most plumbing should be similar, I can think of two possibilities:

1. The hot water plumbing route is more restricted than the cold. This could be anywhere in the lines, the water heater, etc. Therefore when the pump is running and you have increased pressure in the water system, there is more pressure in the cold water line than the hot. This would result in more cold water pressure at the shower valve, resulting in colder water.
2. If the shower valve has been changed to an anti- scald one, the anti-scald mechanism may be failing. I believe this to be less likely.
Keep in my mind that I am not familiar with the SM plumbing and systems in any way. These are just a couple of general suggestions.

Respectfully;
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2018 7:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: AW: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternating hot and cold water in showers

Hi Philipp

That sounds like you have no pressure on your accumulator tank. Between coldwater pump and hot-water-tank you will find the accumulator tank. You can check the pressure via a valve, like car tires. The recomended pressure you may be find in a tank manual. What cold water pump model do you have?
Fair winds
Peter
Wilson, SM 003, La Rochelle

Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Samstag, März 17, 2018, 10:05 schrieb philipp.sollberger@... [amelyachtowners] :

Hi All owners from "old" Super Maramus,

I have the situation, that on my SM #124 I have alternating hot and warm water in the showers. The cold water is this season in La Rochelle real cold, that I feel it very directly. Each moment, when the pressure pump is working, the cold water arrives and the warm water gets cold with the effect, that you get cold shocking moment for some seconds and afterwards the warm shower water arrives again, till the water pressure pump starts working..

Does anybody have an idea how I can eliminate this strange and uncomfortable effect?

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

Fair winds,

Philipp Sollberger,

Félicie, SM #124

Re: Heading Sensor vs. Solid State Compass???

svperegrinus@yahoo.com

I should mention that our main GPS sensor and the AIS GPS sensor, both from B&G, came with big warnings that these should not be installed up the mast.  So both were installed at deck level.

Incidentally, I recall noticing that Amel is now installing what look to be a couple of GPS antennas on deck, forward of the pilot's windshield.  I saw this on either a '64 or a '55 in La Rochelle.

Along the same lines, the Amel-factory Furuno heading sensor that was original to #350 sat at nearly water level in the forward closet opposite of the head.  We now have replaced it with a B&G heading sensor sitting in the same little shelf.

Finally, the original Amel-factory Raytheon/Raymarine heading sensor is still outboard of the dining table, behind the seat, and just aft of the air conditioning vent, i.e, just above the waterline.  It works very well and still provides reliable heading to the Raytheon autopilot.

Cheers,

Peregrinus
SM2K Nr. 350 (2002)
At anchor, Spinalonga, Candia (Crete)

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Alternating hot and cold water in showers

Peter Jaeger

Hi Philipp
That sounds like you have no pressure on your accumulator tank. Between coldwater pump and hot-water-tank you will find the accumulator tank. You can check the pressure via a valve, like car tires. The recomended pressure you may be find in a tank manual. What cold water pump model do you have?
Fair winds
Peter
Wilson, SM 003, La Rochelle

Gesendet von Yahoo Mail für iPad

Am Samstag, März 17, 2018, 10:05 schrieb philipp.sollberger@... [amelyachtowners] :

Hi All owners from "old" Super Maramus,

I have the situation, that on my SM #124 I have alternating hot and warm water in the showers. The cold water is this season in La Rochelle real cold, that I feel it very directly. Each moment, when the pressure pump is working, the cold water arrives and the warm water gets cold with the effect, that you get cold shocking moment for some seconds and afterwards the warm shower water arrives again, till the water pressure pump starts working.

Does anybody have an idea how I can eliminate this strange and uncomfortable effect?

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

Fair winds,

Philipp Sollberger,

Félicie, SM #124

Amel 54 fuel cap.

Peter Forbes

Alex,

Do you have a diesel fuel cap for a 54?

Peter Forbes

Carango
Amel 54 #035
Anguilla

The Old Rectory
Farnham
Blandford
Dorset
DT11 8DE

Peter Forbes
0044 7836 209730
Carango  Sailing Ketch
Amel 54 #035
In Marigot Bay
St Lucia

On 16 Mar 2018, at 12:46, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi Alexandre,
Yes indeed, my oops; indeed it's 1500/1800 rpms. I was thinking of the Fischer Panda generators that run at 3000/3600 rpms. My genset is a 4.8/6.0 kw Northern Lights at 1500/1800.
My AC panel (from Paneltronics, not original Amel) includes an ampmeter so I can see the load on the genset (or shore power).
Cheers, Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Good morning Craig,
If I may step in, the Onan actually run at either 1500 or 1800 rpm depending on its frequency setting.
The load is the issue, which why several owner (Bill, Gary, Eric, etc.) have add Alternate Current Multimeter.
Illustration of the installation on NIKIMAT:
http://www.nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247.html

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 3/16/18, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Friday, March 16, 2018, 8:48 AM
Hi Eric,You bring up an
interesting point when you say you had the same carbon build
up problem in your genset exhaust elbow, caused by not
running at high enough rpm's. Unless you've got a
variable speed genset, it always will be running at a high
rpm (3000 or 3600 depending on Hertz), so rpm may not be the
only issue. Isn't it low load that's the
issue? So
when Yanmar says to run the engine way up, no doubt
they're assuming it will be in gear and will present a
full load from the propeller. I think the genset analogy
would be to load it with not just battery charging, but also
get the Admiral to run her hair dryer, make toast, wash
right?Cheers,
Craig SN#68 Sangaris

---In
amelyachtowners@...,
wrote :

Hi,I had his problem with my
genset. It is caused by not running a diesel at about 80% of
its redline. Diesels like to work hard. Our diesels are not
run that hard so is the main engine.Yanmar suggests to run
the engine way up. In my case 3000 rpm for 15 minutes  a
few time a dayThis blows the carbon out
of the turbo and the exhaust system.    The carbon is usually
glass hard.However if the elbow is
not perforated due to corrosion, I would try  to break out
the carbon.You might try something
like a dremel tool with a hard steel bit, or even better a
carbide bit ,or a small cutoff disk. Being that they have
ordered a new elbow for you,  you could go Medieval” on
the elbow.  On eBay there is a fellow
that makes beautiful Yanmar elbows out of stainless steel.
They are much better than the factory unit. Possibly he
WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super
Maramu #376
From:
amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 12:16
PM
To:
amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black
Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine
Exhaust   I removed
the elbow in Point-a-Pitre and it was almost blocked with
very hard carbon deposits.  I'd guess that it was only
30% open. Even so the engine ran well. The turbo turns
freely so is probably OK.  Unfortunately, they don't
have the elbow here and must order it.  Will be at least a
week.  The mechanic who looked at it said the elbow should
be replaced every 3 years. He says that it is not possible
to just clean out the carbon, but I don;t understand why
not.  It's the first I'd heard about the 3 year
removal requirement and saw nothing in the Operating Manual
which has all of the routine maintenance identified. Just
sending this to close out the question.  Thanks for all the
good suggestions.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GPS Antenna below deck?

Andy Buxford

millisecond-accurate time data supplied by GPS. This is how
packet-collisions are prevented. If you remove the GPS aerial the AIS
transmitter will no longer work, I believe.

Andy.

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 7:04 PM, sailor63109@yahoo.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

In tracing down the wiring on the boat I've found another GPS antenna!

It provides position data to the ACR Nauticast B AIS. …

We've always had good results from the Nauticast so I'm likely to leave it
there, unless there's a good reason not to?

Alternating hot and cold water in showers

philipp.sollberger@...

Hi All owners from "old" Super Maramus,

I have the situation, that on my SM #124 I have alternating hot and warm water in the showers. The cold water is this season in La Rochelle real cold, that I feel it very directly. Each moment, when the pressure pump is working, the cold water arrives and the warm water gets cold with the effect, that you get cold shocking moment for some seconds and afterwards the warm shower water arrives again, till the water pressure pump starts working.

Does anybody have an idea how I can eliminate this strange and uncomfortable effect?

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

Fair winds,

Philipp Sollberger,

Félicie, SM #124

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

eric freedman

Craig,

Of course the generator does not have a variable speed.

What I meant is that we usually do not run the genset under enough load.

80 percent of the output of a 7.5 kw genset, I believe should be a usage of about 27 amps.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2018 9:49 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

Hi Eric,

You bring up an interesting point when you say you had the same carbon build up problem in your genset exhaust elbow, caused by not running at high enough rpm's. Unless you've got a variable speed genset, it always will be running at a high rpm (3000 or 3600 depending on Hertz), so rpm may not be the only issue. Isn't it low load that's the issue?

So when Yanmar says to run the engine way up, no doubt they're assuming it will be in gear and will present a full load from the propeller. I think the genset analogy would be to load it with not just battery charging, but also get the Admiral to run her hair dryer, make toast, wash clothes and iron your shorts. Not a bad regimen, actually.

Cheers, Craig SN#68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi,

I had his problem with my genset. It is caused by not running a diesel at about 80% of its redline. Diesels like to work hard. Our diesels are not run that hard so is the main engine.

Yanmar suggests to run the engine way up. In my case 3000 rpm for 15 minutes  a few time a day

This blows the carbon out of the turbo and the exhaust system.

The carbon is usually glass hard.

However if the elbow is not perforated due to corrosion, I would try  to break out the carbon.

You might try something like a dremel tool with a hard steel bit, or even better a carbide bit ,or a small cutoff disk. Being that they have ordered a new elbow for you,  you could go Medieval” on the elbow.

On eBay there is a fellow that makes beautiful Yanmar elbows out of stainless steel. They are much better than the factory unit. Possibly he makes elbows for your engine.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 12:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust

I removed the elbow in Point-a-Pitre and it was almost blocked with very hard carbon deposits.  I'd guess that it was only 30% open. Even so the engine ran well. The turbo turns freely so is probably OK.  Unfortunately, they don't have the elbow here and must order it.  Will be at least a week.  The mechanic who looked at it said the elbow should be replaced every 3 years. He says that it is not possible to just clean out the carbon, but I don;t understand why not.  It's the first I'd heard about the 3 year removal requirement and saw nothing in the Operating Manual which has all of the routine maintenance identified. Just sending this to close out the question.  Thanks for all the good suggestions.

General discussion on Generators and exhaust elbows

Craig Briggs

Hey Alexandre,
I've found the Northern Lights to be really good. Mine has 7500 hours, doesn't burn a drop of oil and only routine maintenance needed (never rebuilt). I'm now installing my 3rd set of brushes and a new generator end bearing, all per the maintenance schedule. Have always done oil and filters right on schedule.
A few pesky problems with DC connections over the years (easily fixed once found), but they've re-engineered that on the newer models. Interesting that their advertising now features the fact their DC system is not solid state and, therefore, can be owner maintained - basically 4 relays and no solid state. I think the marketing boys call that featuring your weaknesses, but after all the posts here about trying to decode and interpret the Onan solid state blinking lights, they may have a point.
I switched to a Stainless Steel exhaust elbow after earlier ones corroded through and that's now at 2500 hours. The brand is well supported world wide.
We've got friends who have been "off the grid" for 10 years now on a Bahamian island and they also have this genset, which they swear by, although they are almost 100% solar so only kick in the generator on rare occasions.
Almost caught you when you were in Ft Lauderdale a few years ago, but got way-layed.across the canal at Playboy Marina up to my elbows in maintenance. Will keep an eye out in the future.
Cheers,  Craig

---In amelyachtowners@..., <uster@...> wrote :

Hello Craig,
Wow the fisher panda runs that high!!!
How do you like your Northern Light? (asking as I am thinking about buying a house and will consider putting a small genset).
Nice you have the Amp meter too!
Hope we get to meet one day, always wanted to visit a Santorin!
Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/16/18, sangaris@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine Exhaust
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Friday, March 16, 2018, 11:46 AM

Hi Alexandre,Yes indeed, my oops;
indeed it's 1500/1800 rpms. I was thinking of the
Fischer Panda generators that run at 3000/3600 rpms. My
genset is a 4.8/6.0 kw Northern Lights at
1500/1800. My AC panel (from Paneltronics, not
original Amel) includes an ampmeter so I can see the load on
the genset (or shore power).
Cheers,
Craig

---In amelyachtowners@...,
<uster@...> wrote :

Good
morning Craig,

If I may step in, the Onan actually run at either 1500 or
1800 rpm depending on its frequency setting.

The load is the issue, which why several owner (Bill, Gary,
Eric, etc.) have add Alternate Current Multimeter.

Illustration of the installation on NIKIMAT:

http://www.nikimat.com/blue_sea_ac_multimeter_8247.html

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/16/18, sangaris@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black Smoke From Volvo
Penta Engine Exhaust

To: amelyachtowners@...

Date: Friday, March 16, 2018, 8:48 AM
Hi
Eric,You bring up an

interesting point when you say you had the same carbon
build

up problem in your genset exhaust elbow, caused by not

running at high enough rpm's. Unless you've got a

variable speed genset, it always will be running at a
high

rpm (3000 or 3600 depending on Hertz), so rpm may not be
the

only issue. Isn't it low load that's the

issue? So

when Yanmar says to run the engine way up, no doubt

they're assuming it will be in gear and will present
a

full load from the propeller. I think the genset analogy

would be to load it with not just battery charging, but
also

get the Admiral to run her hair dryer, make toast, wash

right?Cheers,

Craig SN#68 Sangaris

---In

amelyachtowners@...,
<kimberlite@...>

wrote :

Hi,I had his problem with my

genset. It is caused by not running a diesel at about 80%
of

its redline. Diesels like to work hard. Our diesels are
not

run that hard so is the main engine.Yanmar suggests to
run

the engine way up. In my case 3000 rpm for 15 minutes  a

few time a dayThis blows the carbon out

of the turbo and the exhaust system.    The carbon is
usually

glass hard.However if the elbow is

not perforated due to corrosion, I would try  to break
out

the carbon.You might try something

like a dremel tool with a hard steel bit, or even better
a

carbide bit ,or a small cutoff disk. Being that they have

ordered a new elbow for you,  you could go Medieval”
on

the elbow.  On eBay there is a fellow

that makes beautiful Yanmar elbows out of stainless
steel.

They are much better than the factory unit. Possibly he

WindsEricKimberlite Amel Super

Maramu #376

From:

amelyachtowners@...

[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]

Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2018 12:16

PM

To:

amelyachtowners@...

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Black

Smoke From Volvo Penta Engine

Exhaust   I removed

the elbow in Point-a-Pitre and it was almost blocked with

very hard carbon deposits.  I'd guess that it was
only

30% open. Even so the engine ran well. The turbo turns

freely so is probably OK.  Unfortunately, they don't

have the elbow here and must order it.  Will be at least
a

week.  The mechanic who looked at it said the elbow
should

be replaced every 3 years. He says that it is not
possible

to just clean out the carbon, but I don;t understand why

not.  It's the first I'd heard about the 3 year

removal requirement and saw nothing in the Operating
Manual

which has all of the routine maintenance identified. Just

sending this to close out the question.  Thanks for all
the

good suggestions.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GPS Antenna below deck?

Alexandre Uster von Baar

Good afternoon Duane,

Regarding the extra GPS antenna, I had one at the same location.
More precisely as you remove the top access of the roof, it next to the big starboard winch, like a disc looking.
I was explained mine was in case of emergency (should I press an alarm in case of attack) this is how the ship would be tracked.
I did not continue the service as it was required to send the old antenna to be upgraded or reconfigured.
Then another was GPS antenna was installed next to that one, it was for the radio

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 3/16/18, sailor63109@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] GPS Antenna below deck?
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 16, 2018, 2:04 PM

In tracing down the wiring on the boat
I've found another GPS antenna!
It provides position data
to the ACR Nauticast B AIS.  It was installed in the
ceiling space above the midship cabin (just fwd of the aft
fallen over and must have been rolling around up there in a
heavy sea.
from the Nauticast so I'm likely to leave it there,
unless there's a good reason not to?   Of course
I'll improve the mounting situation.

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GPS Antenna below deck?

Fiberglass is mostly transparent to radio waves, so it should have only a tiny impact on signal strength.  But GPS (and any satellite) signals are already very weak, so it might be enough to cause you to "see" fewer satellites than you would with a clear view of the sky.  It shouldn't cause any position error.  Take care that your sensor isn't behind any metal or wood, or even some kinds of paint, which can block signals.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 3:04 PM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

In tracing down the wiring on the boat I've found another GPS antenna!

It provides position data to the ACR Nauticast B AIS.  It was installed in the ceiling space above the midship cabin (just fwd of the aft cabin), attached with silicone to the overhead, and it had fallen over and must have been rolling around up there in a heavy sea.

We've always had good results from the Nauticast so I'm likely to leave it there, unless there's a good reason not to?   Of course I'll improve the mounting situation.