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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
Ian Shepherd
Hi Ian & Judy, yes I have met many owners that have done the same but thanks for the confirmation that it was a worthwhile change. I have to wonder why the original top line was where it is? Did Amel get it wrong or are we all distributing are on board load incorrectly? It's a well known saying 'keep the weight out of the ends'.
However I replaced my anchor chain with 90M instead of the
standard 70M and I have to say that the extra weight up front has
reduced the tendency to slam in choppy seas, enabling you to
comfortably keep up a higher speed. She sails really well now,
though despite the extra weight forward, the strip is still
submerged at the stern. Regards Ian SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader
On 05/06/2017 15:57, Ian & Judy
ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
rossirossix4
The question on the Leece-Neville potentially overcharging the batteries is an interesting one. With solar charging we frequently start and use our diesel with the house batteries fully charged. The solar charger has 3 stage charged the batteries up to 28.8v and then stepped down the voltage to a trickle charge for hours but then it gets pushed up to 28.8v when the Yanmar is started--seems like even a couple of hours of motoring could cause a problem. The amps are small but I have not seen the voltage drop. Maybe the guys at Leece-Neville have an opinion.
On a somewhat related question. A while back my voltage gauge on the Yanmar was indicating a charge of 15+v. I tapped on the guage and it went to the normal range. A multimeter reading confirmed that things were normal--its happened twice in 3 years and I think the meter just gets stuck. But my question is this. If the 12v alternator regulator were to fail and go into an over charge mode, what is the immediate intervention to avoid destroying your starter battery. Do you disconnect it? Doesn't that destroy the alternator or blow the diods or is it a moot issue because the regulator is already bad? Bob, KAIMI SM429
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great source for watermaker membranes.
eric freedman
I was looking for new membranes for my watermaker and found this company. I needed SW30-2540 not only are they huge they were the least expensive by quite a bit.
We have more than 170 offices, plants and factories throughout Australia, Canada, China, Germany, Italy, Singapore, the United Kingdom and United States
Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
eric freedman
Alan, I have had 3 sets of deep cycle batteries on Kimberlite in 15 years. The original Amel set of batteries lasted about 2000 hours. The second set was killed by a defective battery charger after about 1000 hours. The current set (including the starter battery) of 31ev batteries has about 2500 hours on them an still measures very high on capacity. I believe what kills these “no maintenance” batteries is not adding water to them. I check the batteries every few months . In the Caribbean there is some water loss due to evaporation. Other than that the bank is still at about 90%. Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 10:12 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
Thanks Eric,
OK...the 12volt engine and genset alternators don't need 3-stage regulators because they are charging starting batteries not deep cycle batteries. Deep cycle batteries require a 3 stage (bulk, absorption, float) charging system. Every deep cycle battery manufacturer will tell you that. A standard or automotive engine alternator regulator, like Leece Neville, charges at 28.8V constantly and the current falls off as the batteries charge up. The voltage never drops below 28.8V when the batteries are charged and this is a big problem if one runs the engine for a long time...like all day motoring. 28.8V constantly on your deep cycle bank will eventually kill the deep cycle batteries. IF you only ever motor for a few hours at a time and not every day, then this is not such an issue. 3-stage alternator regulators are not a "scam", they are the best way to look after your deep cycle batteries. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
Thanks Eric,
OK...the 12volt engine and genset alternators don't need 3-stage regulators because they are charging starting batteries not deep cycle batteries. Deep cycle batteries require a 3 stage (bulk, absorption, float) charging system. Every deep cycle battery manufacturer will tell you that. A standard or automotive engine alternator regulator, like Leece Neville, charges at 28.8V constantly and the current falls off as the batteries charge up. The voltage never drops below 28.8V when the batteries are charged and this is a big problem if one runs the engine for a long time...like all day motoring. 28.8V constantly on your deep cycle bank will eventually kill the deep cycle batteries. IF you only ever motor for a few hours at a time and not every day, then this is not such an issue. 3-stage alternator regulators are not a "scam", they are the best way to look after your deep cycle batteries. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
eric freedman
Alan, I guess I will be starting World War 3. I do not believe that the alternator needs a 3 stage regulator. When the bank is full , the voltage drops down and the amps are in the 1-2 amp range. A good friend of mine who sells batteries, and rebuild starter motors and alternators told me that There is no need for a 3 stage regulator, He thinks the 3 stage regulators on alternators is a big scam. If they were necessary, why doesn’t the 12 V alternator on the genset and engine also have a 3 stage regulator? Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 7:40 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
Well done Ian !
While you are about it you may consider fitting an external regulator that will charge the house batteries correctly
There are a couple of ways of doing this which are illustrated well in the files section.
The problem with the internal LN regulator is that is delivers 28.8 volts... forever....., and that will eventually kill your deep cycle house batteries if you motor for long periods.
If you do motor for hours you need to have a system that will deal with charging your deep cycle house batteries in a 3-stage manner ...if you want to prolong the life of your batteries.
if you have plenty of money to spend on batteries then I guess it doesn't matter.
Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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Re: Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
Well done Ian !
While you are about it you may consider fitting an external regulator that will charge the house batteries correctly There are a couple of ways of doing this which are illustrated well in the files section. The problem with the internal LN regulator is that is delivers 28.8 volts... forever....., and that will eventually kill your deep cycle house batteries if you motor for long periods. If you do motor for hours you need to have a system that will deal with charging your deep cycle house batteries in a 3-stage manner ...if you want to prolong the life of your batteries. if you have plenty of money to spend on batteries then I guess it doesn't matter. Cheers Alan Elyse SM437
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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners
amelyachtowners@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners group. File : /Leece-Neville Service Manual.pdf Uploaded by : sv_crusader <sv_freespirit@...> Description : Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator Service Manual You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Leece-Neville%20Service%20Manual.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, sv_crusader <sv_freespirit@...>
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New file uploaded to amelyachtowners
amelyachtowners@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the amelyachtowners group. File : /Leece-Neville Parts List.pdf Uploaded by : sv_crusader <sv_freespirit@...> Description : Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator Parts List You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/files/Leece-Neville%20Parts%20List.pdf To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, sv_crusader <sv_freespirit@...>
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Leece-Neville 175 Amp Alternator
Ian Shepherd
Recently I thought I had a problem with my 175 Amp alternator giving no charge. I contacted Prestolite Leece-Neville by email and found them more than helpful. They pointed out that the number on the label on the topside of the alternator is NOT the model number. See text below. Dear sir, The alternator reference is 8SC3009ZA (8RL3021 / 105-351 is the regulator reference). Please find attached the part listing and service manual. The current part number for a replacement regulator is 8RL3024S. Brush box replacement is K185103972S. A complete alternator to latest design / build spec, should you require it, is now part number 8SC3157V. I shall upload the parts list and the service manual to the
'Files' section later today. It may be useful to someone down the
line. It turned out that there was nothing wrong with my alternator.
What had happened was that when I changed the Yanmar fuel filter,
I has accidentally dislodged the plug that goes to the white
engine mounted relay, thus disabling the field current circuit! A
happy ending! Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus
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Re: Eberspacher Heater
william_maffei@...
a side note about Espar Heaters... I have performed a lot of service on these units and I will say the amount of usage on these is critical to their operation. One should almost always consider "stepping it up" according to size. For example, a vessel of our size , it is recommended (hydronic) M8 or M10 units however, stepping it up to the M12 will ensue this unit is not running 24 hours a day to keep up with the heating demands. One more example, I helped install a unit last fall and by the end of the winter the customer was complaining that it was not working properly. It was making a lot of noise and bellowing white smoke. It had over 5300 hours on it and needed a complete overhaul to remove the carbon build up in the firing chamber. These units should be removed and sent off for service once a season if hours exceed 2500. One more thing that helps these run better is if you cut the fuel with kerosene. The general rule is 10% however, it is not recommended you run your main at this time because some of the lubricating properties of diesel are diluted. These are DC units and voltages are always critical during operation. Low voltage will also cause carbon build up and failures. Duane, I agree with Ian your ECU is the likely culprit. Cheers all, Bill Maffei SM #195 It's all Good
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replace mirror washing room
Alexandre Uster von Baar
Had mine in San Juan, Puerto Rico was pretty cheap!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Sincerely, Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA --------------------------------------------
On Mon, 6/5/17, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replace mirror washing room To: amelyachtowners@... Date: Monday, June 5, 2017, 12:47 PM Oliver, Any local glass shop can cut you a new mirror. Here are a couple of tips. We replace all of our mirrors last summer. On the wall cabinets, we replaced the glass with mirror plexi-glass. It looks just the same as glass. I think the plastic is much safer. We used the same thickness as the original glass. For the mirrors over the sink, we replace these with glass mirrors with safety backing. This is an adhesive backing put on by the cutter. It also helps keep the silver backing intact. The safety backing will hold the glass together if the mirror should break. Any glass shop can do this for you. With best regards, Mark Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising – Puerto Rico www.creampuff.us From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] Sent: Monday, June 5, 2017 1:14 PM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replace mirror washing room Hello, I would like to replace the small mirror in the washing room of the aft cabin of my SM 2000. I would like to get one which looks like the old one. Has anyone experience with a company in the US who could produce it? We would like to order it if possible online. Oliver SV JoEmi No. 397
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replace mirror washing room
Oliver,
Any local glass shop can cut you a new mirror. Here are a couple of tips. We replace all of our mirrors last summer.
On the wall cabinets, we replaced the glass with mirror plexi-glass. It looks just the same as glass. I think the plastic is much safer. We used the same thickness as the original glass. For the mirrors over the sink, we replace these with glass mirrors with safety backing. This is an adhesive backing put on by the cutter. It also helps keep the silver backing intact. The safety backing will hold the glass together if the mirror should break. Any glass shop can do this for you.
With best regards,
Mark
Skipper Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275 Currently cruising – Puerto Rico www.creampuff.us
From:
amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Hello,
I would like to replace the small mirror in the washing room of the aft cabin of my SM 2000. I would like to get one which looks like the old one. Has anyone experience with a company in the US who could produce it? We would like to order it if possible online.
Oliver SV JoEmi No. 397
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Replace mirror washing room
Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
Oliver, Yes. I had a glass & mirror shop cut new ones using the old ones as a pattern. I did it in Barcelona, but this can be done anywhere. CW Bill Rouse Admiral, Texas Navy Commander Emeritus Amel School www.amelschool.com 720 Winnie St Galveston Island, TX 77550 +1(832) 380-4970
On Jun 5, 2017 12:14, "qmvwv3fna4dth3r32bdwtz3bpy7meopg2s2xlnuq@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Replace mirror washing room
qmvwv3fna4dth3r32bdwtz3bpy7meopg2s2xlnuq@...
Hello, I would like to replace the small mirror in the washing room of the aft cabin of my SM 2000. I would like to get one which looks like the old one. Has anyone experience with a company in the US who could produce it? We would like to order it if possible online. Oliver SV JoEmi No. 397
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
Hi Ian,
Good to hear that everything is working well.
We, too, had enough of having to clean the stern of the boat when the water line is submerged so when we put Coppercoat on eight years ago we finished it on the top line of the orange stripe. We added a blue stripe an inch above
that.
We ummed and aahed for months before we decided to go quite so high but are delighted that we did. Other than the fact that the waterline is now greenish ( oxidised copper ) with a blue stripe in contrast with the normal black
anti fouling with an orange stripe ( for our vintage ) you would not spot the difference unless it was pointed out to you.
The savings of hours in cleaning is very welcome-- I have been cleaning Amel hulls now for 28 years, a labour of love, but as I get older life seems to get busier.
A good move.
Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Genoa
On 5 Jun 2017, at 16:56, Ian Shepherd
sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
Ian Shepherd
Hi Eric, as far as I know I have an Airtronic D5LC model. I can't remember what was fitted to my first Amel in 2000, but it was about the same time that Ian took delivery of his boat. It is a shame that Amel don't buy the units with the diagnostic controller, but maybe that is not an option for them at initial purchase? Regarding whether I have a silencer fitted, I really don't know. I suspect not if it's an option. I did take the whole unit out when troubleshooting, (unnecessarily) and I think that the pipe behind the heat shield was a straight through stainless pipe. Do you have a photo of the silencer? By the way, I made a typo regarding the fans. They are Caframo
Siroccos and not Cafranio. I see that West Marine have them on
offer at $73.99 in 12V or 24V versions. Crusader is in excellent shape thanks, with no faults. My water maker membranes are now in their 8th year, the prop-shaft seals are perfect after 7 years use since changing the seal bush to stainless, and the modified bow thruster has needed no maintenance during the past 6 years other than greasing the drive shaft splines annually with Corrosion Block grease. The new style bimini has transformed the sailing experience with lots of cool air flowing through the cockpit and more headroom. I also up-rated my solar panels to 250W each and now electricity
is abundant. My Air Marine 403 wind generator mounted on top of
the mizzen mast suffered a casing failure in 50 knot winds and had
to be replaced with anew Air-X. (I think that the swivel seized
causing a big side load on the casting). Regulation seems much
better with the new model and no more flutter braking! I am off to Marmaris in Turkey soon for a haul out with the intention of altering the plimsoll line to match the waterline, so saving lot's of hull cleaning around the rear half of the boat. Whilst out I will change the prop-shaft seals as a precaution, and also the grease in the bow thruster housing, together with the shaft seal that is running on a stainless sleeve. The sealed bearings in the thruster are still running very smoothly. Yes Eric, I have been quiet on this site for a while. To be frank I became highly pissed off with wildly inaccurate accusations by two members, unfortunately both from your side of the pond. If you want to know more, I will email you privately. Hope that Kimberlite is in good shape too. Regards and fair winds. Ian SM 414 Crusader - Cyprus
On 05/06/2017 07:43, 'sailormon'
kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Re: Interfacing B&G Analogue displays to Raymarine system
Terence Singh
Bill, thank you for your prompt response.
Dena and I are dealing with a family emergency which has kept me from traveling to Libby as planned. I will be back on board the end of the month to continue this investigation. Best regards, Terry & Dena Singh SV Libby SM # 196 Maple Bay, BC
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
eric freedman
Ian, Great write up and link. I installed the espar in kimberlite last fall. The older D5 units have a separate control box and I did not know when Amel switched over to the electronic model. It seems that we all have the newer unit. When I was In Ian Jenkins boat Pen Azen he had the older unit, thus my question to him about which unit he has. I visited a number of Amels with factory fitted heaters and did a lot of research to get the install perfect. Do you have a silencer on your exhaust of your heater?
It’s been a long time since you were on the board. How are you, and your boat? Fair Winds Eric Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376
I
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2017 2:11 AM To: amelyachtowners@... Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
Hello Duane, I had the same experience with my D5 as you. In fact my second failure. To answer your question about the ventilation function first, the flow into the salon cabin is OK but poor in the fore and aft cabins. I have fitted Cafranio Sirocco fans to overcome this problem. They are stylish, quiet, efficient and have a timer function which allows you to run them for 2,4,6 or 8 hours then switch off. I set my cabin fan to run for two hours when I go to bed. Regarding your Eberspacher D5, this link is useful when trouble shooting: http://www.letonkinoisvarnish.uk/Eberspacher_Faults_2.html The hard rubber knob on my control unit failed, and like so many scams these days, you can't buy a spare without buying the whole switch! As the diagnostic controller costs not much more, I replaced my controller with one. This was most helpful in trouble shooting, as was swapping the ECU and current limiter with Bootlegger, another Amel SM2K that wintered next to me in Cyprus. The diagnostic controller also allows you to reset a locked out ECU. My first failure was an ECU -expensive! The second was like yours. Everything seemed dead. The diagnostics controller gave an error code suggesting a problem with the blower. When the D5 is first switched on it goes through a 3 second self diagnostic routine which tests the fuel pump, the blower and the glow plug. If you remove the inlet air duct on the aft end of the unit and have someone watch, the blower fan should kick during this test. You should also hear a relay operate. If you hear nothing, then I would suggest the problem may lie with the ECU. I heard the relays OK and when I put a direct feed onto the bower motor, it ran normally. This narrowed it down to a small PCB that slides into the side of the heater unit near the aft end. This board controls the power feed to the blower and the glow plug. This board is easily removed but take care in lifting the connector plugs off the board as the pins are weakly soldered to the board. I broke one of the pins and had to fabricate a new one. This board is easy to troubleshoot and I found that a track that looked perfectly normal was in fact open circuit. There was an invisible break where the track went through a right angle. Soldering a small piece of hook up wire over the fault restored my unit to full working order. Like you, I probably don't use the heater that often, but I do like everything on board to work as it should. Best of luck. Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader - Larnaca Cyprus.
On 03/06/2017 17:34, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Eberspacher Heater
Ian Shepherd
Hello Duane, I had the same experience with my D5 as you. In fact my second failure. To answer your question about the ventilation function first, the flow into the salon cabin is OK but poor in the fore and aft cabins. I have fitted Cafranio Sirocco fans to overcome this problem. They are stylish, quiet, efficient and have a timer function which allows you to run them for 2,4,6 or 8 hours then switch off. I set my cabin fan to run for two hours when I go to bed. Regarding your Eberspacher D5, this link is useful when trouble shooting: http://www.letonkinoisvarnish.uk/Eberspacher_Faults_2.html The hard rubber knob on my control unit failed, and like so many
scams these days, you can't buy a spare without buying the whole
switch! As the diagnostic controller costs not much more, I
replaced my controller with one. This was most helpful in trouble
shooting, as was swapping the ECU and current limiter with
Bootlegger, another Amel SM2K that wintered next to me in Cyprus.
The diagnostic controller also allows you to reset a locked out
ECU. My first failure was an ECU -expensive! The second was like yours. Everything seemed dead. The diagnostics controller gave an error code suggesting a problem with the blower. When the D5 is first switched on it goes through a 3 second self diagnostic routine which tests the fuel pump, the blower and the glow plug. If you remove the inlet air duct on the aft end of the unit and have someone watch, the blower fan should kick during this test. You should also hear a relay operate. If you hear nothing, then I would suggest the problem may lie with the ECU. I heard the relays OK and when I put a direct feed onto the bower motor, it ran normally. This narrowed it down to a small PCB that slides into the side of the heater unit near the aft end. This board controls the power feed to the blower and the glow plug. This board is easily removed but take care in lifting the connector plugs off the board as the pins are weakly soldered to the board. I broke one of the pins and had to fabricate a new one. This board is easy to troubleshoot and I found that a track that looked perfectly normal was in fact open circuit. There was an invisible break where the track went through a right angle. Soldering a small piece of hook up wire over the fault restored my unit to full working order. Like you, I probably don't use the heater that often, but I do like everything on board to work as it should. Best of luck. Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader - Larnaca Cyprus.
On 03/06/2017 17:34,
sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
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