Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Martinique.

Mark Erdos
 

Eric,

 

We will be here for at least 2 months, maybe three. We do need some stuff done by Amel. We need to have the wood replaced in our forward lockers (over the anchor well). I could do it myself but hate hate hate to sand fiberglass on a hot day. For me, this is money well spent. And the do-hicky under our furling headsail unit is bent (the thing fastening the big bracket attaches to). This needs to be replaced by a rigger.

 

Thanks for the offer to mule stuff for us. We are in good shape right now since Paul and Anna-Marie on Rita Kathryn carried a duffle bag of goodies to St. Lucia. However, If we need something, we’ll be sure to let you know.

 

We’ll still be here when you get back so let’s get together – finally!

 

Are you sure the electric is included???? We received a separate quote for it when we made the reservation. However, it was all in French so it could have been lost in Google Translate. I thought it was included for monthly rates but not weekly or daily. But, now I’m not sure.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 4:42 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Martinique.

 

 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be at the dock? I will return January 18.

It is a bargain compared to St. Maarten prices and the electric is included.

 

Kimberlite is also there however I am in NY at the moment.

 

What model and hull number do you have?

Will you be having work done by Amel while you are there?

 

My friend Jeff Krause will be arriving about December 10 in his 54  named Spirit.

Please say hi for me. Also Miles Bidwell on Lady Bug a 53 is there now. Also please say hi for me.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 3:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Eric,

 

Right now we are anchored off Saint Anne’s. We well be moving into the marina Wednesday. Not sure what our slip assignment is yet.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

?

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 3:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be in Martinique?

Are you in the marina with the other Amels?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:03 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: Martinique.

eric freedman
 

Mark,

I forgot to ask if there is anything you need from up here ?

I arrive, as I  said January 18.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 


Martinique.

eric freedman
 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be at the dock? I will return January 18.

It is a bargain compared to St. Maarten prices and the electric is included.

 

Kimberlite is also there however I am in NY at the moment.

 

What model and hull number do you have?

Will you be having work done by Amel while you are there?

 

My friend Jeff Krause will be arriving about December 10 in his 54  named Spirit.

Please say hi for me. Also Miles Bidwell on Lady Bug a 53 is there now. Also please say hi for me.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 3:28 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Eric,

 

Right now we are anchored off Saint Anne’s. We well be moving into the marina Wednesday. Not sure what our slip assignment is yet.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

?

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 3:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be in Martinique?

Are you in the marina with the other Amels?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:03 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Mark Erdos
 

Forgot to say we’ll be here for a couple of months.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 3:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be in Martinique?

Are you in the marina with the other Amels?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:03 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Mark Erdos
 

Hi Eric,

 

Right now we are anchored off Saint Anne’s. We well be moving into the marina Wednesday. Not sure what our slip assignment is yet.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 3:30 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be in Martinique?

Are you in the marina with the other Amels?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:03 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

eric freedman
 

Hi Mark,

How long will you be in Martinique?

Are you in the marina with the other Amels?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2017 1:03 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

Mark Erdos
 

If you make it to the windward Islands I would be interested in taking the old pump of your hands for the parts you mention. We don’t plan on going much further north than Guadeloupe this season.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Martinique

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...] On Behalf Of thomas.kleman
Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 1:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

 

 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

 

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

 

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

thomas.kleman <no_reply@...>
 

Hello all- I own Super Maramu #422, L'ORIENT. I replaced my original bilge pump at sea a few months ago as it started leaking from the seal with the diaphragm. Later, I took it apart and noted (among other things) that the all-important plastic gear is intact; the motor and pivot arm appear fine as well.......which I believe is important for folks who elect to rebuild and keep theirs.

I'm keeping my replacement bilge pump in service and would entertain interesting barter offers of spare parts for my leaking but still largely operational bilge pump. Payment in a reasonable Sancerre is also acceptable.

I'll be back on my boat in Antigua end of December and will be stationary for at least a few weeks doing bottom job/prop seal/bow thruster service. Lorient422"at"gmail"dot"com.


Re: Charcoal Filter

Duane Siegfri
 

Paul, Alexandre, and Vladimir:

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences!
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 dishwasher failure (and solution)

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hello Thomas;

 

Thank you for sharing your experience.

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2017 11:11 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel 54 dishwasher failure (and solution)

 

 

Of potential interest to 54-ians with a Dometic dishwasher. 

 

We had an issue with it, leaking heavily and showing error code 10 (issue with the water intake, as per the manual). 

 

The problem was that the conduit to some sort of "there is enough water in the dishwasher" captor was very dirty, preventing it from stopping the inflow until the no-intake water error was reported. Unfortunately that means the overflow too. 

 

The solution was simply to clean that conduit, after removing the plastic ring that covers it at the bottom of the inside of the dishwasher (3 screws) underneath the metal filter. No need to remove the dishwasher from its location to do that, although we did to track to issue down, and it's fairly straightforward. 

 

Hope that will help 

 

 

Thomas & Soraya

Garulfo

Amel 54 #122

Gran Canaria, Canary Island, Spain 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

greatketch@...
 


James,

We went through the Bahamas last year and had a great time.  There are places we want to visit again and new places to see.  So far our favorite stop has been the more remote island of Mayaguana.

A vented loop shouldn't add much resistance, it's pretty straight through, I think your guess of a foot of head is a good one.    Putting in a vent and breaking the syphon action does eliminate the "credit" you get for the down slope of the piping past that point.   So you have to count the static head up to the vent, and then not subtract the reduced height to the discharge.

Not sharpening my pencil too much, but with 2 in ID smooth bore pipe or hose, and that pump I'd expect between 1500 and 2000GPH in the system you describe.  Getting a better estimate than that is probably beyond the precision of the data we have available.

FYI, To measure the flow from my bilge pump, I ran the pump until it first sucked air and turned it off.  I then added a measured amount of water (12 liters) to the sump, and then ran it again until it sucked air and called that the time to discharge 12 liters.



---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,
  Have a great time in the Bahamas.  We have spent quite a bit of time over there on various boats over the years.
  What a great resource you are.  It will be intersting to compare the actual test data to the predictions.  If I decide to add this pump, I think that I can get by with only 6-7' of piping which would be 2" smooth bore fiberglass piping with a length of hose to connect the pump to the piping.  No elbows but some gentle bends. Can you tell me the losses to expect in a vented loop?   This would also be fiberglass pipe so I can make the radius the optinum curve.  I assume that some energy is returned as the fluid is falling from the vent to the discharge but have no idea of how to calculate that part.  The 4 foot actual lift might be 3 1/2' but the vented loop may add another foot?
  The Seland pump can be an ongoing offer and maybe if you want I will also send down the 4000 pump for you to test as well if it is of interest.

James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

James Alton
 

Bill,
  Have a great time in the Bahamas.  We have spent quite a bit of time over there on various boats over the years.
  What a great resource you are.  It will be intersting to compare the actual test data to the predictions.  If I decide to add this pump, I think that I can get by with only 6-7' of piping which would be 2" smooth bore fiberglass piping with a length of hose to connect the pump to the piping.  No elbows but some gentle bends. Can you tell me the losses to expect in a vented loop?   This would also be fiberglass pipe so I can make the radius the optinum curve.  I assume that some energy is returned as the fluid is falling from the vent to the discharge but have no idea of how to calculate that part.  The 4 foot actual lift might be 3 1/2' but the vented loop may add another foot?
  The Seland pump can be an ongoing offer and maybe if you want I will also send down the 4000 pump for you to test as well if it is of interest.

James
SV Sueno, Maramu #220


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 12-03-2017 12:02 PM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.


 

James,


Your offer of testing a Sealand pump in an Amel bilge is fun and fascinating. Unfortunetly we'll be headed to the Bahamas before such fun could be had!

Yes, the Rule can pump 27 feet up, but at zero flow rate.  Also, the head required to actually move water is more than just the lift height.  The piping resistance is the larger and usually more significant contributor.  

(Note, I am a chemical engineer, and for a time pumps and pump selection was an important part of my world.  So I'll likely subject the good members of this forum to way more detail than they need...)

I did a quick and dirty calculation of flow rate for the following system:

10 feet of smooth bore 1.5" hose, two elbows, a total of 4 feet of vertical lift. I calculate such a system would require a pump discharge head of about 6.7 feet at 10 00GPH.  Pretty close to a Rule 4000 pump curve.  (Details available on request for you masochists out there...)  2 inch hose would be better, but you get the idea...


Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Mark,

There were 3 variations of the bow thruster control that I know of. I have no other information.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Porter,

No, the 54 has the infamous BOXTRON.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

greatketch@...
 

James,

Your offer of testing a Sealand pump in an Amel bilge is fun and fascinating. Unfortunetly we'll be headed to the Bahamas before such fun could be had!

Yes, the Rule can pump 27 feet up, but at zero flow rate.  Also, the head required to actually move water is more than just the lift height.  The piping resistance is the larger and usually more significant contributor.  

(Note, I am a chemical engineer, and for a time pumps and pump selection was an important part of my world.  So I'll likely subject the good members of this forum to way more detail than they need...)

I did a quick and dirty calculation of flow rate for the following system:

10 feet of smooth bore 1.5" hose, two elbows, a total of 4 feet of vertical lift. I calculate such a system would require a pump discharge head of about 6.7 feet at 1000GPH.  Pretty close to a Rule 4000 pump curve.  (Details available on request for you masochists out there...)  2 inch hose would be better, but you get the idea...


Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: Battery Charger Options

greatketch@...
 

Alan,

We are (relatively) new owners of a Victron MultiPlus 24/3000/70 charger/inverter.  After 4 months, I obviously can't speak to long term reliability, but the performance and feature set are exceptional.  It is much more sophisticated than the Xantrax unit it replaced and much more precise at voltage control while charging.

One of the reasons we chose this unit was that we can use the optional USC interface and connect a computer to fully program each of the parameters. This lets us match the performance of both the inverter and the charger to our battery system and have it manage the AC system exactly as we want.

For a stand-alone charger, I think you'll be happy with the Centaur.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

 Offshore racing council required two electrical and two manual bilge pumps. One manual pump must be down below.
Just for your information.

Vladimir
SM "Life is Good"

On Dec 2, 2017 13:58, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I had a boss once whose favorite line was, "Show me the data." I learned a lot from him...  

Ratings are all fine and good, but the real world can always change things. So I just timed how long it took my Amel original diaphragm pump to move 12 liters of water: 42 seconds. A flow rate of: 17 liters per minute (or 4.5GPM)  I have read the "32 l/min" number several times, but don't know its original source.

Whenever I see someone write down a number and proclaim that "this is the minimum capacity for a bilge pump for this boat" I wonder how they came up with that number.  

I think of bilge pumps in two categories:  Dewatering and emergency.  

Dewatering is just the normal day to day emptying of the bilge.  On most boats that would include shaft drip, rain water leaks, etc.  We don't have those, so for us it is just the routine emptying of gray water from the sump.   The primary pump selection issue here is not about capacity, but rather picking a pump that will not choke on any lumpy bits from the galley sink.  Given that requirement, we do not have a lot of options. 

An emergency bilge pump is another matter. Any hole in the hull below the water line will overwhelm most bilge pumps.  8gpm is a good number for a 1/2 inch hole, and the flow rate rises with the square of the diameter... so a 1 inch hole would be 24gpm, and a 2 inch hole pushes 100gpm.  That's a LOT.

A boat like an Amel with watertight bulkheads has an extra issue.  Any hole outside the engine room can not drain to the bilge anywhere near as fast as water comes in from the ocean.  So the size of the pump in the sump doesn't matter.

My own personnel takeaway is that a bilge pump that could actually keep up with a significant hole in the boat (on an Amel, maybe a broken engine raw water hose?) is larger than any recommendation I have seen, and borders on impractical.  If you have a hole in the boat too big to plug with your thumb, and you can't stop it, you are sinking--eventually. (Watertight bulkheads aside, of course!)

Ratings on centrifugal bilge pumps are a pretty sad joke. They are all rated at Zero head, and that's just plain goofy. Most of them don't even supply a curve of output flow vs head, and even if they did most people would not know how to interpret it ("pressure head" is much more complex than just discharge height.)  In a real world installation you'd be very lucky to get even 1/4 of the flow rate listed on the box.

All that is a very long winded way of saying... With all the variables and considerations I don't pretend to know what a "proper" capacity is. I do not even know what kind of logical criteria one would use to set one.  I have seen many "authorities" and committees proclaim a number, but their logic is either (arguably) flawed or not specified.

On Harmonie we have: 
  • The standard Amel installed diaphragm bilge pump,  
  • A bilge level alarm,
  • An identical spare electric pump ready to plug in as a replacement if needed, 
  • The Amel installed manual bilge pump, 
  • And a portable manual bilge pump for really serious emergencies.  
I'm comfortable with that list.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL







---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Bill,

   Thanks for the confirmation on the duckbills being nitrile in the Sealand pump.  I suspect that this pump would be great for pumping the sump.   What is you opinion about the capacity of this pump in regards to being the sole electric bilge pump aboard?   I am used to installing centrifugal pumps in boats this size with ratings 10X higher.  I think something as small as a 1/2” hole 4’ below the WL would flow almost 8 GPM….

James

Maramu #220 

On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

The only rubber in the T-series pumps in contact with pumped water are the joker valves.  


The sealand joker valves (they call them "duckbill valves") are made of nitrile rubber, which is good for oil contact.



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Diaphragm Bilge Pump failure.

James Alton
 

Bill Kinney,

  Thanks for giving your opinion on sizing bilge pumps, along with the list of pumps that you carry.   I really like the idea of doing some testing to get some real world data before considering making any changes.

  I am curious about the Rule 4000 centrifugal pump since according to the flow chart it is supposed to be able to lift as high as 27 ft. which I think is almost 12 psi?  The pump also has a 2” discharge.  http://www.strongmanpumps.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Rule-Pump-Performance-Chart.jpg 

   My interest in this pump would be for dewatering and if installed it would be mounted well above the bottom of the sump and hopefully would never get wet.   When time permits,  I will do some of my own testing to simulate an installation in my Maramu with one of the 4000 GPH Rule pumps and will post what I find out.  I would like to see a number above 30 GPM..we will see.
 
I am aware that the centrifugal pumps are rated at 0 head and with no hose and agree that this has no bearing on real life conditions.  

One other factor that I have found which can greatly reduce the discharge of a pump more than expected is the type of house being used.  The type that is heavily corrugated internally appears to reduce the flow by about half (visual observation of the stream as opposed to actual measurement)  as compared to a smooth bore hose of similar diameter. 

  Assuming you are in Florida. I have a 12V Sealand T2 pump at my shop which is also in Florida that I would be glad to ship to you and cover the shipping on both ways if you would like to do a capacity test?  I have not checked to see if the 12V version of this pump has different specs. than the 24V?

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


     

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


I had a boss once whose favorite line was, "Show me the data." I learned a lot from him...  

Ratings are all fine and good, but the real world can always change things. So I just timed how long it took my Amel original diaphragm pump to move 12 liters of water: 42 seconds. A flow rate of: 17 liters per minute (or 4.5GPM)  I have read the "32 l/min" number several times, but don't know its original source.

Whenever I see someone write down a number and proclaim that "this is the minimum capacity for a bilge pump for this boat" I wonder how they came up with that number.  

I think of bilge pumps in two categories:  Dewatering and emergency.  

Dewatering is just the normal day to day emptying of the bilge.  On most boats that would include shaft drip, rain water leaks, etc.  We don't have those, so for us it is just the routine emptying of gray water from the sump.   The primary pump selection issue here is not about capacity, but rather picking a pump that will not choke on any lumpy bits from the galley sink.  Given that requirement, we do not have a lot of options. 

An emergency bilge pump is another matter. Any hole in the hull below the water line will overwhelm most bilge pumps.  8gpm is a good number for a 1/2 inch hole, and the flow rate rises with the square of the diameter... so a 1 inch hole would be 24gpm, and a 2 inch hole pushes 100gpm.  That's a LOT.

A boat like an Amel with watertight bulkheads has an extra issue.  Any hole outside the engine room can not drain to the bilge anywhere near as fast as water comes in from the ocean.  So the size of the pump in the sump doesn't matter.

My own personnel takeaway is that a bilge pump that could actually keep up with a significant hole in the boat (on an Amel, maybe a broken engine raw water hose?) is larger than any recommendation I have seen, and borders on impractical.  If you have a hole in the boat too big to plug with your thumb, and you can't stop it, you are sinking--eventually. (Watertight bulkheads aside, of course!)

Ratings on centrifugal bilge pumps are a pretty sad joke. They are all rated at Zero head, and that's just plain goofy. Most of them don't even supply a curve of output flow vs head, and even if they did most people would not know how to interpret it ("pressure head" is much more complex than just discharge height.)  In a real world installation you'd be very lucky to get even 1/4 of the flow rate listed on the box.

All that is a very long winded way of saying... With all the variables and considerations I don't pretend to know what a "proper" capacity is. I do not even know what kind of logical criteria one would use to set one.  I have seen many "authorities" and committees proclaim a number, but their logic is either (arguably) flawed or not specified.

On Harmonie we have: 
  • The standard Amel installed diaphragm bilge pump,  
  • A bilge level alarm,
  • An identical spare electric pump ready to plug in as a replacement if needed, 
  • The Amel installed manual bilge pump, 
  • And a portable manual bilge pump for really serious emergencies.  
I'm comfortable with that list.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL







---In amelyachtowners@..., <lokiyawl2@...> wrote :

Bill,

   Thanks for the confirmation on the duckbills being nitrile in the Sealand pump.  I suspect that this pump would be great for pumping the sump.   What is you opinion about the capacity of this pump in regards to being the sole electric bilge pump aboard?   I am used to installing centrifugal pumps in boats this size with ratings 10X higher.  I think something as small as a 1/2” hole 4’ below the WL would flow almost 8 GPM….

James

Maramu #220 

On Dec 1, 2017, at 10:58 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

The only rubber in the T-series pumps in contact with pumped water are the joker valves.  


The sealand joker valves (they call them "duckbill valves") are made of nitrile rubber, which is good for oil contact.





Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Craig Briggs
 

Don't know if newer control boxes/boards are different, but on my SN (1992 #68) the board is pretty simple and I could easily spot the fried segments of printed conductor and simply soldered wire jumpers between the endpoint nodes. That was many years ago and it's worked perfectly since.
Craig


---In amelyachtowners@..., <johnhayes862@...> wrote :

Hi Chuck

Count me in

My Santorin is 1991 vintage

John Hayes 
Nga Waka
Wellington 
New Zealand


On 3/12/2017, at 9:21 AM, Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Does the same box exist on the 54!

If so count me in too. 
Thanks!
Porter
54-152
S/V Ibis
Ragged Islands, Bahamas

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 

On Dec 2, 2017, at 1:38 PM, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

I’m not sure I have the same box but if I do, I’d like to keep a spare since they are now unavailable.

Can someone post a picture of what we are talking about, please.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – St. Lucia, the crime island

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 1:33 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

 

 

I too would join in a group order for a spare bow thruster control box.  

 

Derick Gates

SM2K#400

Brava

Currently on the hard in Bailey's boatyard, Falmouth Harbour, Antigua


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 



On Dec 3, 2017 07:49, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Good morning Duane,

I won’t answer your question, but just share my experience.

I had a carbon filter “after” the fresh water pump for the same reason - I wish I had been able to put it after the “flushing” valve, as all the water had chlorine removed instead of only the one going to the water maker.

I also had a sediment filter “before” the fresh water pump, this was to reduce the maintenance/cleaning on the fresh water pump.
It work well, but the water pressure considerably decreased and I had to lower the setting on the D-Square/Pressure Plate significantly running on house power (was never a problem on shore power).

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 12/2/17, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Charcoal Filter
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Date: Saturday, December 2, 2017, 11:48 AM


 









I'm planning on adding a charcoal
filter prior to the watermaker to remove chlorine.  As long
as I'm adding it, it seems reasonable to filter all the
fresh water for the boat.
Does anyone have an idea
how much a 10" carbon block filter (like this: https://airwaterice.com/filters/10-5-micron-carbon-block.html)
would reduce the flow and pressure at the faucets in the
boat?  We have the Marco UP3 4gpm fresh water pump and it
seems to do well without the filter.  I just don't know
how much reduction in flow I'll have with the carbon
filter in line.  
I checked the flow at the
kitchen tap at 1.5gpm, but the pump was not running at full
speed so it's hard to tell what it could pump with more
head loss from the filter.  In the forward head it was at
3.0gpm.  With both the kitchen and fwd head faucet on the
flow from the galley faucet total flow was 3.2gpm.  Looking at the Flow
vs. Pressure diagram from Marco, the pump is operating
toward the high pressure side of the pump
curve.
Duane
Wanderer,
SM#477 



Hi Duane,

I have carbon filter on my watermaker suction line to reduce chlorine during a wash cycle. I use 5 micron carbon filter and I don't use a booster pump.

But you have to be very careful restricting high pressure pump suction line. You have to select carbon filter that gives you low pressure drop at maximum flow.
Too much restriction on a suction line can damage your high pressure pump.
You have to measure a vacuum on the suction line. You should not have deeper vacuum than pump specification alow at maximum flow. 
I have permanently installed a combination vacuum/Pressure gauge on the suction line. I monitor gauge readings and change filters if vacuum is deeper than in the pump spec. 

Best regards
Vladimir
S/V  "LIFE IS GOOD "