Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Solar Panel Location

Stephen Morrison <steve_morrison@...>
 

I just this morning removed one of Emek’s stainless arches we had made. He made it up and sent it in the spring but it has been nothing but issues. The fit was horrendous and though he made gestures to get it sorted, he never followed through. All 4 feet sat poorly with gaps to the inside or out ranging from 1/8” to 5/8” on the starboard forward mounting foot. The geometry was so off that every time I brought welders out to look, they either went into hiding and never returned calls and emails, or they promised to make it right but said it would be thousands (5+) to cut, refabricate, weld, polish and mount. As it is holding us back from sailing at the moment, I pulled it all off and put it in storage to sort out next summer. Though I don’t love the look o the Atlantic arch, I know several boats who have gone that route and do not complain. I would look at the new LG 350w panels from nearing in Ft Lauderdale. Two will fit nicely atop the Atlantic and give you good power. 

Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Ft Lauderdale marine center


On Nov 29, 2017, at 10:46 AM, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Mark

We have 450 w solar panels on an Arc from Emek marine, works great, I added 2x100 watt on the rail and 2x100 watt flexible panels on the Bimini. Now we have two groups 450 and 400 watt, we are very pleased with the setup.
Considering adding 2x100 watt flexible panels on top of the spray hood.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: Solar Panel Location

greatketch@...
 

Mark,

We used an Atlantic Tower arch to hold two 315W Panasonic panels.  It worked well, and we are happy with the result.  We are currently at Lauderdale Marine Center if you wanted to stop over and see, you would be welcome.

I liked the Atlantic Arch because of its light weight.  Installation of the arch was a two day project. Another day or two for the panel install.

On my old boat I had panels on the rail.  On my way east from Hawaii I ran into a “bit of weather”. We took a wave across the boat that threw green water against the back side of the leeward side panel, which were folded down.  The panels were fine, but the rail  they were attached to sutained significant damage. That experience has made my leery of rail mounted panels. 


Bill Kinney
sM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


Re: Solar Panel Location

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello Mark
We have 450 w solar panels on an Arc from Emek marine, works great, I added 2x100 watt on the rail and 2x100 watt flexible panels on the Bimini. Now we have two groups 450 and 400 watt, we are very pleased with the setup.
Considering adding 2x100 watt flexible panels on top of the spray hood.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

greatketch@...
 

Do not assume that the "tons" shown on your documentation certificate has anything to do with the vessel's weight.

It is an archaic calculation that is an estimate of the boat's cargo carrying capacity based on its volume. On US certificates it is calculated from the boat’s width, height, and length.  

Because, you know many of us haul freight with our Amel’s and the government needs to be sure it gets its duties collected accurately.  Or something.

Some countries use a rough approximate calculation (like the USA and the UK) others take this to the silly limit and require an exact calculation of the internal volume from a lines drawing of the hull.  The whole concept is rather a waste to time and energy  for a yacht, but rules is rules!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL



---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs.
Danny
Sm 299
Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Solar Panel Location

Mark Isaac
 

Hello All,

I am considering adding solar to our SM and would like to know where members of the group have placed their panels and how they feel about their choice.  Ours does not currently have an arch, but we are willing to add one should that be the best location.  It looks like at least a few in the group have nice, clean installations using Atlantic Towers, and any feedback about their product and working with them would be appreciated.

Mark
SM #391
Ft. Lauderdale



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Ian Park
 

Figures for a Santorin are -
Part 1 brass registration plate on board says 15 13/100 tons
Registration certificate says Gross Tonnage 18.11 and Registered tonnage 15.13
The original AMEL brochure says Displacement loaded 22,045 lbs and total weight empty 18,738 lbs, ballast 8,156lbs.
When hauled out in UK by crane we registered a shade over 15 tons (British).

Confirm previous comments that Part 1 registration refers to an ancient measurement of predicted volume.

If anyone fancies doing the math between all these figures - enjoy!

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Andy
The British Registry allows the use of a simple approximate formula, which is not recognized by the Danish Registry.
Thanks anyway
Jeppe


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Andy Buxford
 

If you're on the Part 1 registry then these weights were recorded when
your boat was surveyed.

https://ydsa.co.uk/registration/how-do-i-arrange-a-measurement/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonnage


On Tue, Nov 28, 2017 at 8:21 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar
uster@rocketmail.com [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons
(76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you
I can email you the copy of that certificate.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

I am sure they have the linesplan. At least try to get scaled regular sections from them, I will dig out my old books and see what can be done.

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 11:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Rédouan
Thanks, sounds easy, if you know what you are doing.
My SM is currently in the water and winterized for the winter.
I hope Amel can help me with calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks again
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Rédouan
Thanks, sounds easy, if you know what you are doing.
My SM is currently in the water and winterized for the winter.
I hope Amel can help me with calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks again
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

Once your boat is out of the water it is relatively easy to make the linesplan with a theodolite. You then plot them and interpolate the volume between areas of each cross section. If you have a software like AutoCAD it would be even simpler.

It is a nice winter evening project to do if you have the boat out of the water.  I shall be back to the boat in January and if I can get hold of a theodolite in Portimao, I might do it just to bring my naval architect spirit back and get the SM linesplan!

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 10:58, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Dear Redouan
You are absolutely right. The International Tonnage Certificate is a virtual measure based on the volume of the ship. And yes it is expensive to get the measurer to make the line-drawings again and calculate the volume that is one of the basic parameteres of the tonnage calculation. I will try my luck with at Amel, if there is no Irish or Swedish registered SM with the needed numbers or calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks for your answer.
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464
_/_/)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Jeppe Jonsson
 

Dear Redouan
You are absolutely right. The International Tonnage Certificate is a virtual measure based on the volume of the ship. And yes it is expensive to get the measurer to make the line-drawings again and calculate the volume that is one of the basic parameteres of the tonnage calculation. I will try my luck with at Amel, if there is no Irish or Swedish registered SM with the needed numbers or calculations or line-drawings.
Thanks for your answer.
Kind Regards
Jeppe, SM464
_/_/)


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Rédouan Assar <red1assar@...>
 

Hello, 

From my humble experience with tonnage calculations when designing and registering fishing vessels I believe the tonnage is linked to the volume of the boat, not its weight and is referring to ancient cargoes of barils or ‘tonneau’ in french.

I recommend that you ask amel as they can easily give you this from the linesplan or you need to spend some time out of the water with a theodolite and pick up the hull lines to calculate the volume. You then use the class formulae to get the tonnage value required by your specific country of registry. 

It is interesting that it is required for Sailing boat of this size, usually in Europe it is for commercial vessels above 24m, hence many fishermen asking for 23.95m boats!

Redouan

On 29 Nov 2017, at 08:42, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

That's why I asked if it was US tons. A tonne and an imperial ton are very close. US tons, lighter. Like US gallons.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:42, "seagasm@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

seagasm@...
 

Don't get confused with Tonnes (metric) and Tons (imperial). Tonne is an alternate spelling used to describe a metric ton. It is almost never used in American English, but it is widely used outside of the United States. Again, a tonne, also known as a metric ton, is a unit of measurement equal to 1,000 kilograms. A tonne is larger than a U.S. ton.

Best Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Follow on from my previous. That is way more than Amel specs.
Danny
Sm 299
Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

eric freedman
 

I am not sure,

The numbers came from Amel when she was made.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:39 AM
To: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

That would be US tons?

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464





 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

That would be US tons?

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 29 Nov 2017 18:29, "'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

eric freedman
 

Kimberlites stated tonnage on the USA Documentation is 25 net tons and 28 gross  tons.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:47 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage

 

 

Hi, 

On the travel lift scales Ocean Pearl is 18 tonnes loaded, if the scales are correct.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 29 November 2017 at 09:21 "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Jeppe,

First congratulations on become the new owner of SM2K #464.
Must be one of the last one commissioned!

On my British Registry both “Gross” and “Net” Tonnage showed 27.03 Tons (76.49 Cubic Meres).
Quite frankly I don’t know if these number are accurate, but if it helps you I can email you the copy of that certificate.

Sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/28/17, jej@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Tonnage
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 1:41 PM


 









Dear SaoleileI have just become the owner
of SM464 and I also need to produce the calculations leading
to the gross/net  tonnage, so that the official measure can
make the International certificate of
tonnage.Have you recieved any info which can
help?Kind RegardsJeppe, SM464




 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Carrying spare rigging ?

smiles bernard
 

its just dawned on me that both the terminals in the picture i uploaded would work with Peters suggested option of a wire 'tail' section and a swaged eye fitting plus some bulldog clamps or the dyneema soft shackle option Bill explained

I'll double check whats aloft when i'm next onboard in a few weeks!

All the best

Miles

On Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 9:49:08 PM GMT, 'smilesbernard@...' smilesbernard@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

thanks all!
yes i have been wondering about the dyneema option. It does seem like a good one
Peter's idea about the wire clamps is a good one - i took this setup with me last time i went long distance but it only really helps with a wire failure at deck level
after crossing the atlantic in my previous old 30fter my brand new aft lower on the windward side had begun to fray but right at the swagged mast fitting to wire junction. So i could not repair it. luckily i carried old rigging spares and had a spare mast swage fitting so a local rigger could make a replacement.

My current rig is from 2012 and was apparently replaced by an Amel experienced rigger in S france. I'm therefore hopeful it'll be ok for a N atlantic circuit.....

the question in my mind is always the mast fitting side of things.... thats the harder part.
At a push i suppose one could loop a dyneema temporary stay over the opposite spreader if there was a problem with the lower shrouds or attach it to a cotterpin at the mast head?


thanks for all the thoughts - very much appreciated

btw i found these spares onboard -  my lower shroud mast terminals look like the  cup and ball fitting on the right of the attached photo which is new to me. I might see if there are any staylok etc options . . . .
I presume the fitting on the left will make sense once i have climbed to the mast head!

Thanks all!

Fair winds

Miles

On Tuesday, November 28, 2017, 4:47:09 PM GMT, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

Miles,


Dyneema is the way to go for emergency replacement rigging.  It is stronger than you need, you can carry 100 feet of it in a tiny little space (Unlike wire!)  It doesn't care if it sits in water or even oil. Just throw it in the bilge and forget about it until you need it.  It is ridiculously easy to splice, and it is way stronger than you need.

You do need to do some thinking ahead of time about how you would attach it to the mast, spreaders, and chainplates but you can do some very creative things with homemade soft shackles.  It is very rare that a rigging wire fails in the run of the wire, it almost always the terminal hardware that fails so you can not count on having that to attach to. 

Size the dyneema not based on strength (that would be too stretchy) but rather on (approximately) matching the stretch of the SS wire it is replacing.  A rough rule of thumb is two times the diameter of the stainless wire.  These guys have a lot of fittings and know-how on dyneema rigging: http://www.colligomarine.com

My old boat (a 40 foot cruising ketch) actually had an all dyneema rig.  People laughed, it is supposed to be a race boat thing, but getting rid of several hundred pounds of weight up high in the rig made a huge difference in the boat's performance to windward.

I am not sure what you mean when you write, "aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings." If you can see them moving around (working?) then they are MUCH too loose.  In a properly tuned rig some of the tension will come off the leeward wires in a stiff breeze, but if they get loose enough they are moving around, that's a problem.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <smilesbernard@...> wrote :

Hello there

I'd value this groups thoughts on carrying spare rigging on long journeys - to allow for repairs on passage or in remote locations.

What supplies do you carry ?

My 1985 isomat masted (single spreader) maramu is pretty new to me and I've yet to see the masthead and the rigging terminals up there but the aft lowers have a ball and cup system that then locates into he spreader -to- mast attachment. In my experience aft lowers seem to take a lot of working on ocean crossings I was going to see about sourcing a spare to allow basic at sea repairs.

Anyway it'd be great to hear people's approach!

I wonder people dyneema based options for a 'get me home' jury rig and any mast / turnbuckle attachments these require?

All the best

Miles
Maramu 1985