Date   

Re: Amel wanted

Trevor Lusty
 

Dear Julie,
                I have both purchased and sold a SM through Michel Charpentier and found him to be excellent, extremely knowledge, realistic, and of the highest integrity.
Good luck with your search.
Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Amel wanted

Julia Sloman
 

We are looking to buy an A54 (or possibly a late model SM) in Europe. Please reach out if you are contemplating selling and we are not already in contact. Thanks.


Re: How much Solar?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Justin,

We wired the arch panels in parallel to a junction box in the lazarette and then a pair of wires to one MPPT so theoretically they're more tolerant of partial shading. Ideally I have 3 MPPTs for the 3 panels but damn, that's a lot of wiring!

Do let us know how much relative power you get from the various panels. Even if our environmental conditions are different, the relative output should give us an idea of how effective surface mounted panels are vs. their output ratings. BTW - I am from the Bay Area, too, so I understand fog will have a bit of an impact on your output. :)

Good luck!

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 6:00 AM Justin Maguire <justin_maguire@...> wrote:

Scott –

 

The hard top panels are on a separate MPPT, and I definitely don’t expect them to perform to their “rating” per the heat challenge that all flush mounted panels have… the question will be just how much. As I mentioned, other Amel 50 owners have mounted up to a 1000w on the davits… I know I can eventually go to that but wanted to see what my real world performance was with 600 on the davits and the 575 on the roof… what I don’t know is if each panel on the rear has it’s own MPPT controller…

 

One thing I’m also trying to balance is needing to run the gen-set just enough to keep it happy… 😊

With the full induction galley (yay! No propane or waste heat), and an already power hungry boat like the Amel, I’m very curious to see how she plays out. Either way, your numbers give me hope.

 

I’m just over 2 years from quitting the job and pushing off, so I’ve got some time to sort out the boat, get to know her, and make any mods before then. I’ll get to spend 3 months this summer in new England cruising her (and working from her)… and then I’ll be shipping her back to the west coast (SFO – home is Sausalito)… once she’s back in the bay area I’ll have just over a year before leaving to make any final mods and set the last of my life in motion…

 

So much learning from all of you.

Thank you for your wisdom and example!

 


Cheers,

-Justin

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott SV Tengah
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much Solar?

 

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: How much Solar?

Justin Maguire
 

Scott –

 

The hard top panels are on a separate MPPT, and I definitely don’t expect them to perform to their “rating” per the heat challenge that all flush mounted panels have… the question will be just how much. As I mentioned, other Amel 50 owners have mounted up to a 1000w on the davits… I know I can eventually go to that but wanted to see what my real world performance was with 600 on the davits and the 575 on the roof… what I don’t know is if each panel on the rear has it’s own MPPT controller…

 

One thing I’m also trying to balance is needing to run the gen-set just enough to keep it happy… 😊

With the full induction galley (yay! No propane or waste heat), and an already power hungry boat like the Amel, I’m very curious to see how she plays out. Either way, your numbers give me hope.

 

I’m just over 2 years from quitting the job and pushing off, so I’ve got some time to sort out the boat, get to know her, and make any mods before then. I’ll get to spend 3 months this summer in new England cruising her (and working from her)… and then I’ll be shipping her back to the west coast (SFO – home is Sausalito)… once she’s back in the bay area I’ll have just over a year before leaving to make any final mods and set the last of my life in motion…

 

So much learning from all of you.

Thank you for your wisdom and example!

 


Cheers,

-Justin

 

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Scott SV Tengah
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much Solar?

 

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com

 


Re: Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for your very detailed response, we are very interested in going to a hard top next time we have to replace the bimini.
Michael  Elaine. Nebo 


On Thu, 4 Feb 2021 at 11:25 pm, Ann-Sofie
<ann-sofie@...> wrote:

Hi Michael

To build a new roof from scratch is probably easier than renovate one. To shape the roof use either polyurethan insulation plates or Divinycell sheets and then laminate with 2-3 layers of epoxi and grp matt.
After that its time to shape the rail which is done using polyurethan insulation plates in small pieces, when the shape is ok, laminate the rail with 1 layer epoxi and grp matt.
Sand the roof and then put on epoxi filler to get a smooth surface, sand. 

Mill lines for cables and lights. Fill the space above the cables to create a smooth surface.

Paint with 2-component paint (International Perfection as one example) primer, 2 layers and sand. 2 or more layers of top paint Perfection.

How long time for this production, probably around 100-200 hours, much depending on the place of work. For us it took far more but much of that was down to the renovation part. 

Hope this will give you a hint of producing one your self.  Feel free to come back if you have any questions.

Regards,
Jonas

Den 2021-02-02 kl. 22:34, skrev michael winand via groups.io:
Thanks for sharing.  Could you please advise on the approximate hours to construct your own?
Thanks, Michael, Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 2:53 am, Ann-Sofie
As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal
-- 
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
Edificio Pluma
Rua Teofilo Braga 17-6a
8500-668 Portimao
Portugal

00351-914 879 021


Re: Yanmar no start.

Thomas Kleman
 

Dan- does the genset run normally or not ?

Obviously this tells you a lot about the location of the problem.

Assuming the genset runs normally, I would check every fuel line connection from the tank to the injection pump (they can come loose).

If the genset doesn't run normally you might have bad fuel or Eric friedman's problem with the mesh filter inside the tank. He fixed it with compressed air.

Hope it's not the yanmar fuel pump.

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422


𝗖𝗹𝗶𝗺𝗺𝗮 𝗖𝗮𝗹𝗽𝗲𝗱𝗮 𝗣𝘂𝗺𝗽 𝗹𝗲𝗮𝗸𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗺𝗲𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗶𝗰𝗮𝗹 𝘀𝗲𝗮𝗹 𝗰𝗮𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮 𝗴𝗿𝗼𝘂𝗻𝗱 𝗳𝗮𝘂𝗹𝘁

 

Peter,

Here are a few more things that may help. Here are 4 pages out of the newest version of the Amel Book
Here is a Video for Disassembly of the motor: https://youtu.be/CczwUotFnSE

My conclusion based on what you have said:
Saltwater has probably gotten into the Stator Winding and the Rotor (see below). It is possible that cleaning will solve the ground fault. It is important for every Amel owner to keep a watchful eye on the AC Pump. Your Amel, when new, was equipped with a Calpeda seawater pump for the Air Conditioning. It is a very well-made and long-lasting pump. The Calpeda pump, like almost other compatible brands, has an internal mechanical seal. Calpeda places a "Slinger Washer" on the shaft between the pump body and the motor that will hopefully sling leaking seawater away from the shaft and therefore keep it out of the motor. I have been on a number of Amels and found a telltale line of salt from the Slinger Washer (photo below). When the internal mechanical seal wears out, that Slinger Washer will only work for a short time, days maybe weeks before seawater enters the electric motor. The first signs of a problem will be slight wetness around the pump area, followed by a ground fault tripping the internal breaker on the side of the 220 panel and/or the breaker on the shore power pedestal in the marina. In the following photo (sorry about the quality) do you see the thin line of rust that is aligned with the opening to the Calpeda Slinger Washer?

image.png

Typical Calpeda Motor:
image.png


image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

 

Peter,

I am betting your ground fault is inside your AC pump caused by a failed mechanical seal and probably the sealed bearings. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 8:08 AM Peter de Groot <pandmdegroot@...> wrote:
Greetings all,
The last round of responses have been particularly helpful.  Thank you all.

Update:  Tuesday late afternoon I reconnected the A to B connection started the generator and ran the air conditioning with all 3 Climma units on.  From the sound of the generator engine, it was clear that when the water pump came on, there was a considerable load.  Much more than the heaters or battery charger.  We ran the air conditioning for a while and went below to experience the cooler cabin.  After about 45 minutes of run time, the generator pulled down further and stopped.  I turned off the air conditioning breaker on the 220 panel and restarted the generator, to make sure the generator was OK, which it was.
Yesterday morning, I found the 5 Amp fuse in the Climma relay box was blown. I replaced it but could not get the pump to come on.  I isolated the 3 Climma units and one at a time checked how they were delivering there “go” signal to the relay box.  I found some inconsistencies, and the aft unit (which may have had water damage from rain leaking in through a not completely closed head hatch) both the blue and brown wire went to 226VAC when the unit was turned on.  This is a separate issue which I’ll check out later.
In the process of all this checking, I went through 3 of the 4 spare 5A fuses on board.
Everything seems to be pointing to the pump motor, so before using my last good fuse I’ll isolate the pump motor and go through its internal grounding.  Most likely I’ll be waiting to do this in our next port (Vallarta) There is an electrician there I trust, and the chance of getting a replacement pump motor is better.  Not to mention more fuses.
Starting tomorrow we’re off the boat for a week long excursion inland, so the next post may be in a few weeks.

BTW: the recommended local electrician here had never encountered 220 VAC delivered by one hot and a neutral, so he was on the boat for less than 20 minutes (a mutual decision fortunately)

Thanks again all.  I really appreciate the suggestions.

Peter
La Querida SM#207
Barra de Navidad, Mexico.






Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Peter de Groot
 

Greetings all,
The last round of responses have been particularly helpful. Thank you all.

Update: Tuesday late afternoon I reconnected the A to B connection started the generator and ran the air conditioning with all 3 Climma units on. From the sound of the generator engine, it was clear that when the water pump came on, there was a considerable load. Much more than the heaters or battery charger. We ran the air conditioning for a while and went below to experience the cooler cabin. After about 45 minutes of run time, the generator pulled down further and stopped. I turned off the air conditioning breaker on the 220 panel and restarted the generator, to make sure the generator was OK, which it was.
Yesterday morning, I found the 5 Amp fuse in the Climma relay box was blown. I replaced it but could not get the pump to come on. I isolated the 3 Climma units and one at a time checked how they were delivering there “go” signal to the relay box. I found some inconsistencies, and the aft unit (which may have had water damage from rain leaking in through a not completely closed head hatch) both the blue and brown wire went to 226VAC when the unit was turned on. This is a separate issue which I’ll check out later.
In the process of all this checking, I went through 3 of the 4 spare 5A fuses on board.
Everything seems to be pointing to the pump motor, so before using my last good fuse I’ll isolate the pump motor and go through its internal grounding. Most likely I’ll be waiting to do this in our next port (Vallarta) There is an electrician there I trust, and the chance of getting a replacement pump motor is better. Not to mention more fuses.
Starting tomorrow we’re off the boat for a week long excursion inland, so the next post may be in a few weeks.

BTW: the recommended local electrician here had never encountered 220 VAC delivered by one hot and a neutral, so he was on the boat for less than 20 minutes (a mutual decision fortunately)

Thanks again all. I really appreciate the suggestions.

Peter
La Querida SM#207
Barra de Navidad, Mexico.


Re: Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila
 

Hi Michael

To build a new roof from scratch is probably easier than renovate one. To shape the roof use either polyurethan insulation plates or Divinycell sheets and then laminate with 2-3 layers of epoxi and grp matt.
After that its time to shape the rail which is done using polyurethan insulation plates in small pieces, when the shape is ok, laminate the rail with 1 layer epoxi and grp matt.
Sand the roof and then put on epoxi filler to get a smooth surface, sand. 

Mill lines for cables and lights. Fill the space above the cables to create a smooth surface.

Paint with 2-component paint (International Perfection as one example) primer, 2 layers and sand. 2 or more layers of top paint Perfection.

How long time for this production, probably around 100-200 hours, much depending on the place of work. For us it took far more but much of that was down to the renovation part. 

Hope this will give you a hint of producing one your self.  Feel free to come back if you have any questions.

Regards,
Jonas

Den 2021-02-02 kl. 22:34, skrev michael winand via groups.io:
Thanks for sharing.  Could you please advise on the approximate hours to construct your own?
Thanks, Michael, Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 2:53 am, Ann-Sofie
As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal
-- 
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
Edificio Pluma
Rua Teofilo Braga 17-6a
8500-668 Portimao
Portugal

00351-914 879 021


Re: How much Solar?

Scott SV Tengah
 

Hi everyone,

In FP and Hawaii, we were averaging 5500-6000wh per day. Most I've seen is a handful of days approaching 7000wh. As Mark mentioned, we have a lifepo4 bank (2.5 years now) and that makes a huge difference as you can see when you compare my data to Porter's with similar solar output and similar environmental conditions. I'm sure you all see that once you take a lead battery above 80%, the charge acceptance drops like a rock. And worse, you're supposed to keep lead at high SOC to prevent sulfation so a lot of your solar output will be wasted. With my bank, the full output of the solar (or the 200amps of AC-powered charging) is taken up by the batteries until the upper 90% SOC. And I try to keep the batteries between say 50-80% to maximize longevity, so literally every watt is being put into the batteries.

Another thing that Mark didn't mention, but makes a huge difference is that lifepo4 charging is much more efficient than lead charging. With lead, you lose about 20-30% of your the charge current through inefficiencies. read: heat. With lifepo4 over 2.5 years I'm losing about 2-3%, based on the cumulative data on kWh in compared to kWh out that is provided by my Victron MPPT.

Billy - I suspect something is wrong with your battery monitor? We have 450ah and with 2 fridges and a freezer running, we drop about 8% overnight or 36AH. Not sure if you have water cooled fridges on the 55, but the homemade Frankenstein brushless pump (detailed in another post) has reduced power consumption considerably. Freezer is colder, too! You also stated that you figure about 5kw a day, which should be 5000/25.6v = 195AH, which sounds more realistic. Or are you running other items that we're not? In any event, I don't think your 750w on gel will be enough to eliminate genset usage most days if you are anything like us. 2 fridges plus a freezer and computers on, electric kettle, microwave and plus, the admiral has gotten addicted to Ozark, so the TV is on quite a bit. :) That said, we also run the water maker off our batteries and the 2.2kw scuba compressor if the batteries get too full. But I still suspect 750w on gel won't be enough.

Dan - have you considered adding more AC-based charging capacity? If you have to run the genset, since you have lithium, which can accept high currents, might as well add as much charging capacity to reduce genset runtimes. Your calculated figures on $/hr for genset usage frightened me into looking at more solar! And it's not just the money, I am consciously trying to reduce ongoing maintenance. With our 200amps charging capacity, on the rare instances we run the genset, it's almost always for less than an hour. I suggest rewiring that water heater. We do, in fact, run the water heater on battery/inverter. Our heater is only 700w and I run it for say 20 minutes prior to each shower, which gives me just enough hot water for 2 people.

Eric - no need to add extra ventilation, at least on our passage berth mounted batteries. I have monitored individual battery temps via bluetooth and they rarely get above 30c. They only get hot (40c or so) when I'm running AC-based chargers at 200amps and try to take them to 90%+ in order to balance out the batteries and help the battery monitor reset.

Justin - do you have the hardtop panels on a separate MPPT? Once you get on your boat, I am really really curious to know how many AH you get out of them, compared to your aft panels. Another boat we met in FP has 2kw of solar on their decks and they produce about the same kWH per day as we do with only 960w of arch mounted solar. Much of that inefficiency is probably related to shading, but if you look at the specs on most panels, the power output drops about 0.3-0.5% PER degree C increase over 25degC. I measured the panel temps on mine and it's not much above ambient since they get cooled by the breeze blowing underneath them. I would love to add them but it would be a lot of brain damage for me, so I want to make sure it's worth the effort or maybe I just accept I'll have to run the genset every few weeks.  

Ken is very right with the weight balance issue! I am sick of scrubbing the port side gelcoat! 

At the end of the day, energy is like money - the more you have, the more you use!


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Yanmar no start.

Alan Leslie
 

Could it be water in the fuel?
I had a similar issue on a previous boat....would run but wouldn't idle.
The cause was a small amount of water in the fuel because I had left the boat in Fiji over the cyclone season and the #2 fuel tank was empty.
The condensation from the high ambient humidity contaminated the fuel when I filled it. 
Solution was to empty the tank, clean it, refill, bleed the fuel line and injector pump and presto, all go again.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Yanmar no start.

Mark Erdos
 

Dan,

 

Sounds like you have it narrowed to a fuel issue.

 

Check your diesel fuel tank air vent to ensure it is not clogged or obstructed.

 

Does the start/generator run okay with no load?

 

Do you have duel racor filters? If so, is there a vacuum when the engine is running? And, have you tried switching to the alternate filter?

Image result for dual racor filters

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 11:34 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Yanmar no start.

 

Thanks for the tips Bill and Steve,

 

I tried to trouble shoot the solenoid by having Lori actuate the stop button on the console while I monitored for the clicking down at the engine.  That sounded normal. I tried to start and again it cranked but did not catch.  But it sounded like it was just getting some combustion at the end, so one more try and it slowly caught and when I gave it some slight throttle in neutral it picked up. I ran it for 15  minutes at 1700 rpm to get to temperature. It had a little bit of load from the alternator, charging the Li batteries. After it reached temp I switched the alternator regulator to "float"/ no load, ran the rpms slowly up to 2500 and back down to 1000 rpm. After a minute there I put the throttle back to the idle position and the rpms decreased to about 500 and then the engine stopped. So it seems like I have a low rpm idle setting or fuel flow issue at idle. I think I can adjust the idle up slightly, but that doesn't account for the change in performance of the engine, both the unexpected stopping as well as the difficult starting. (I've never had to apply any throttle when starting in the past.)

 

Steve, I'm not sure if I can test that small of a change in the fuel pump performance on the boat. 

 

Also, the fuel injectors were rebuilt and the valves adjusted a a little less than two hundred hours ago. 

 

Does that trigger any more ideas? 

 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387.

 

 

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 4:23 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

My 8 Ball Crystal Ball says, "Check Back Later"😀

 

I wonder if the fuel flow stop solenoid or the stop button is not working and cutting off fuel?

 

 

image.png

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 1:03 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:

Hello Yanmar diesel gurus.

 

Our Yanmar 4Jh3-HTE has never missed a beat, until today.

 

Engine started fine and operated for 30-40 mins to lift anchor exit anchorage and get underway. Mostly at 1200-1500rpm.  Normal shutdown, with a short rev to approx 2500rmp before return to idle for a minute or two then shutdown.  Temp and oil pressure all normal.

 

After approx 1 hr sail to next anchorage engine started fine and operated at approx 1500 rpm for 15 minutes into anchorage then idling while anchoring for approx 5 mins, 1200-1300rpm to back down anchor, then after a short idle another rev to approx 2800 rpm then return to idle. When the engine rpms returned to idle the engine just stopped.  After thinking through everything that just happened I attempted to restart the engine and it did not catch after approx 3-5 seconds of cranking.  

 

We had lunch and allowed the engine to cool for a little over an hour. I checked coolent level, oil level, fuel in racor, looked over the engine and then attempted to start with no luck.  Next I pumped the fuel priming pump on top of the filter a few times but I did not bleed any fuel out.  I attempted to start two more times with approximately 5 seconds of cranking each time with no success. No indication of any firing. 

 

Finally: I drained about 1/4 cup of clean fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter, then loosened the fuel bleed valve and pumped some more fuel out of the bleed valve. It did not appear that there was any noticable air in the system.  Cleaned up and retried with Lori cranking for 5 seconds while I pumped the priming pump. No success.

 

Fuel tank has over 500 liters.

 

I thought I'd  check in with other Amel owners to get inputs on the next steps for troubleshooting. 

 

Advice appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387

 


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Thomas Peacock
 

I totally defer to Mark on this. 
But, I would add that the automatic transfer switch (in the port cockpit locker) was severely corroded on my SM a couple of years ago.

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay

On Feb 3, 2021, at 5:45 PM, Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:



Peter,

The circuit breaker that is tripping is an RCD or Residual Current Device.  It trips when it detects a even a minute difference between the current in the (normally) Hot leg and the current in the (normally) Neutral return.  In a properly functioning AC electrical circuit, the current would be the same in the Hot and Neutral return.  If the Hot was somehow shorted to ground at the appliance (like to the appliance case) the current would be returned to the source via the Ground wire instead of the Neutral wire. The RCD breaker would trip when it detected that the current in the HOT wire was NOT returning to the source via the Neutral wire.

Obviously, you no longer have a Neutral return but I am fairly certain that the RCD still works with two Hot legs.  So assuming your RCD is working properly, then it appears that you have more current on one Hot leg then you have on the other WHEN ON SHORE POWER ONLY.  Given that your voltage readings were the same, that would mean that the resistance of one Hot leg is higher than the other.  In my experience, the most likely cause of higher resistance in a circuit like this is usually a bad "mechanical" electrical connection.  Think bad crimp or a loose screw terminal.

Given that everything works fine when you are running on the Generator, I would be looking at every "mechanical" electrical connection in the Shore Power wiring including:
  • Wire Connections inside the Automatic Transfer Switch
  • Wire Connections at Shore Power Plug
If everything looks OK, I would probably try to bypass the Automatic Transfer Switch and see what happens.

Usual disclaimer that I am NOT a marine electrician and I do not even play one on TV!  Good luck.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA

--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Mark McGovern
 

Peter,

The circuit breaker that is tripping is an RCD or Residual Current Device.  It trips when it detects a even a minute difference between the current in the (normally) Hot leg and the current in the (normally) Neutral return.  In a properly functioning AC electrical circuit, the current would be the same in the Hot and Neutral return.  If the Hot was somehow shorted to ground at the appliance (like to the appliance case) the current would be returned to the source via the Ground wire instead of the Neutral wire. The RCD breaker would trip when it detected that the current in the HOT wire was NOT returning to the source via the Neutral wire.

Obviously, you no longer have a Neutral return but I am fairly certain that the RCD still works with two Hot legs.  So assuming your RCD is working properly, then it appears that you have more current on one Hot leg then you have on the other WHEN ON SHORE POWER ONLY.  Given that your voltage readings were the same, that would mean that the resistance of one Hot leg is higher than the other.  In my experience, the most likely cause of higher resistance in a circuit like this is usually a bad "mechanical" electrical connection.  Think bad crimp or a loose screw terminal.

Given that everything works fine when you are running on the Generator, I would be looking at every "mechanical" electrical connection in the Shore Power wiring including:
  • Wire Connections inside the Automatic Transfer Switch
  • Wire Connections at Shore Power Plug
If everything looks OK, I would probably try to bypass the Automatic Transfer Switch and see what happens.

Usual disclaimer that I am NOT a marine electrician and I do not even play one on TV!  Good luck.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Yanmar no start.

Mark Erdos
 

Dan,

 

This sounds very typical of a stuck stop solenoid.

 

To check. Have someone at the helm push the stop button while you can observe the solenoid and lever on the engine. You should see the stop lever move as the solenoid is activated by the stop button at the panel.

 

To all: if you do not already have this in place it is a good idea to attached a red string (and red handle) for use as a manual stop.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 9:03 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Yanmar no start.

 

Hello Yanmar diesel gurus.

 

Our Yanmar 4Jh3-HTE has never missed a beat, until today.

 

Engine started fine and operated for 30-40 mins to lift anchor exit anchorage and get underway. Mostly at 1200-1500rpm.  Normal shutdown, with a short rev to approx 2500rmp before return to idle for a minute or two then shutdown.  Temp and oil pressure all normal.

 

After approx 1 hr sail to next anchorage engine started fine and operated at approx 1500 rpm for 15 minutes into anchorage then idling while anchoring for approx 5 mins, 1200-1300rpm to back down anchor, then after a short idle another rev to approx 2800 rpm then return to idle. When the engine rpms returned to idle the engine just stopped.  After thinking through everything that just happened I attempted to restart the engine and it did not catch after approx 3-5 seconds of cranking.  

 

We had lunch and allowed the engine to cool for a little over an hour. I checked coolent level, oil level, fuel in racor, looked over the engine and then attempted to start with no luck.  Next I pumped the fuel priming pump on top of the filter a few times but I did not bleed any fuel out.  I attempted to start two more times with approximately 5 seconds of cranking each time with no success. No indication of any firing. 

 

Finally: I drained about 1/4 cup of clean fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter, then loosened the fuel bleed valve and pumped some more fuel out of the bleed valve. It did not appear that there was any noticable air in the system.  Cleaned up and retried with Lori cranking for 5 seconds while I pumped the priming pump. No success.

 

Fuel tank has over 500 liters.

 

I thought I'd  check in with other Amel owners to get inputs on the next steps for troubleshooting. 

 

Advice appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387

 


Re: Propeller recommendation

Miles
 

Hi Alex,

I have been pleased with my Autoprop.  Because it sets the ideal pitch for any condition, it gives good mileage, and it is especially good when motor-sailing as it sets the pitch so that the engine has a good load at low RPMs.  The down side is that the blades must be kept perfectly clean.  A barnacle interrupts that flow over the blade and changes the pitch from the ideal pitch.  

I once tried using the fixed prop on my boat while the Autoprop was being reconditioned.  In addition to fuel consumption, my sailing speed was reduced by about 1 knot. 

Regards,

Miles 

s/y Ladybug, sm 216 at berth at Le Marin, Martinique

 


Re: Yanmar no start.

Dan Carlson
 

Thanks for the tips Bill and Steve,

I tried to trouble shoot the solenoid by having Lori actuate the stop button on the console while I monitored for the clicking down at the engine.  That sounded normal. I tried to start and again it cranked but did not catch.  But it sounded like it was just getting some combustion at the end, so one more try and it slowly caught and when I gave it some slight throttle in neutral it picked up. I ran it for 15  minutes at 1700 rpm to get to temperature. It had a little bit of load from the alternator, charging the Li batteries. After it reached temp I switched the alternator regulator to "float"/ no load, ran the rpms slowly up to 2500 and back down to 1000 rpm. After a minute there I put the throttle back to the idle position and the rpms decreased to about 500 and then the engine stopped. So it seems like I have a low rpm idle setting or fuel flow issue at idle. I think I can adjust the idle up slightly, but that doesn't account for the change in performance of the engine, both the unexpected stopping as well as the difficult starting. (I've never had to apply any throttle when starting in the past.)

Steve, I'm not sure if I can test that small of a change in the fuel pump performance on the boat. 

Also, the fuel injectors were rebuilt and the valves adjusted a a little less than two hundred hours ago. 

Does that trigger any more ideas? 

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387.


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 4:23 PM CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
My 8 Ball Crystal Ball says, "Check Back Later"😀

I wonder if the fuel flow stop solenoid or the stop button is not working and cutting off fuel?


image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 1:03 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hello Yanmar diesel gurus.

Our Yanmar 4Jh3-HTE has never missed a beat, until today.

Engine started fine and operated for 30-40 mins to lift anchor exit anchorage and get underway. Mostly at 1200-1500rpm.  Normal shutdown, with a short rev to approx 2500rmp before return to idle for a minute or two then shutdown.  Temp and oil pressure all normal.

After approx 1 hr sail to next anchorage engine started fine and operated at approx 1500 rpm for 15 minutes into anchorage then idling while anchoring for approx 5 mins, 1200-1300rpm to back down anchor, then after a short idle another rev to approx 2800 rpm then return to idle. When the engine rpms returned to idle the engine just stopped.  After thinking through everything that just happened I attempted to restart the engine and it did not catch after approx 3-5 seconds of cranking.  

We had lunch and allowed the engine to cool for a little over an hour. I checked coolent level, oil level, fuel in racor, looked over the engine and then attempted to start with no luck.  Next I pumped the fuel priming pump on top of the filter a few times but I did not bleed any fuel out.  I attempted to start two more times with approximately 5 seconds of cranking each time with no success. No indication of any firing. 

Finally: I drained about 1/4 cup of clean fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter, then loosened the fuel bleed valve and pumped some more fuel out of the bleed valve. It did not appear that there was any noticable air in the system.  Cleaned up and retried with Lori cranking for 5 seconds while I pumped the priming pump. No success.

Fuel tank has over 500 liters.

I thought I'd  check in with other Amel owners to get inputs on the next steps for troubleshooting. 

Advice appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387


Re: Yanmar no start.

Stephen Davis
 

Hi Dan,

sorry about the starting issues, as I know how frustrating it can be. On a non electronically controlled engine like yours, it is most likely a fuel issue. If your fuel is clean, and no air in the system, how about a bad fuel pump. I have a newer Yanmar with an ECM, and have a fuel pump on mine, and assume you do as well. Can you crack the injectors, and have someone turn the engine over with the throttle full open, while you monitor to see that you have good fuel flow? This is a bit messy, so have some rags around the injectors to catch the fuel. 


Good luck!

Steve Davis
Aloha SM 72
Port Townsend, WA


Re: Yanmar no start.

 

My 8 Ball Crystal Ball says, "Check Back Later"😀

I wonder if the fuel flow stop solenoid or the stop button is not working and cutting off fuel?


image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 1:03 PM Dan Carlson <carlsdan61@...> wrote:
Hello Yanmar diesel gurus.

Our Yanmar 4Jh3-HTE has never missed a beat, until today.

Engine started fine and operated for 30-40 mins to lift anchor exit anchorage and get underway. Mostly at 1200-1500rpm.  Normal shutdown, with a short rev to approx 2500rmp before return to idle for a minute or two then shutdown.  Temp and oil pressure all normal.

After approx 1 hr sail to next anchorage engine started fine and operated at approx 1500 rpm for 15 minutes into anchorage then idling while anchoring for approx 5 mins, 1200-1300rpm to back down anchor, then after a short idle another rev to approx 2800 rpm then return to idle. When the engine rpms returned to idle the engine just stopped.  After thinking through everything that just happened I attempted to restart the engine and it did not catch after approx 3-5 seconds of cranking.  

We had lunch and allowed the engine to cool for a little over an hour. I checked coolent level, oil level, fuel in racor, looked over the engine and then attempted to start with no luck.  Next I pumped the fuel priming pump on top of the filter a few times but I did not bleed any fuel out.  I attempted to start two more times with approximately 5 seconds of cranking each time with no success. No indication of any firing. 

Finally: I drained about 1/4 cup of clean fuel from the bottom of the fuel filter, then loosened the fuel bleed valve and pumped some more fuel out of the bleed valve. It did not appear that there was any noticable air in the system.  Cleaned up and retried with Lori cranking for 5 seconds while I pumped the priming pump. No success.

Fuel tank has over 500 liters.

I thought I'd  check in with other Amel owners to get inputs on the next steps for troubleshooting. 

Advice appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SM #387

2261 - 2280 of 58572