Date   
Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Jamie Wendell
 

And Scott, one more thing. Thanks for that suggestion about having a backup 12-volt starting battery. I have never had a problem, but as they say, never say never.

I might add that I will be trying to sell off my existing batteries, which are Firefly batteries. I installed them after my earlier 2016 battery compartment explosion, and they have been good. The problem I have found is that the voltage drops off and shuts down many of my critical systems (like refrigeration) and kills my pump.

I probably have too much "stuff" to avoid that problem, and I also feel that it is critical that you equalize batteries in series to make 24 volts - I have been remiss there.
And I do have solar panels (about 750 watts) and a wind generator.

Anyone interested in 10 Fireflys?

Jamie
Phantom A54 #44

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Jamie Wendell
 

Scott, a lot of great comments and thanks for being so detailed. That really helps us all out here in Amel land - learn from other's mistakes (er. success I mean)?

My approach is to do the breaker allocation thing as a test to see what runs and what doesn't before I "permanently" split the AC bus - just a matter of moving a few wires really, so no big deal.
And you are right, I just read up on the Mastervolt USB issue, and I will be adding the converter as well, so that I can plug in my laptop to do the programming for the alternator.

I just ordered all my parts through Battle Born - thanks to Bill Rouse for that assistance. My contractor and I are both going to be winners now!!

Oh, and regarding the load issues, the good thing (to me) about having dual Multis is that I can always parallel them if I need the extra oomph. We shall see - all it would take is some bigger wires. Sounds easy, right?

I will keep all informed as I get this Lithium deal installed and up and running.

Best to you and Mia.
Jamie
Phantom A54 #44

Maramu replacement autopilot drive motor

Jacob Champness
 
Edited

Hi all.

I had an old Sharp drive motor on my Raymarine autopilot on Maramu #42.  It fit nicely in the space just below the Morse control on the dash, but has finally died after many years.  I then ordered the standard Raymarine Type 2 drive motor but of course it’s too deep for the compartment by about an inch.  I briefly considered cutting a hole in the bulkhead so it would fit but then it will interfere with opening the cockpit seat locker on the port side. 


Has anyone dealt with this?  What drive motor did you replace the Sharp with or how did you make the Raymarine unit fit?

Thanks for any suggestions
Jacob Champness
Lark
Maramu #42
George Town, Bahamas

Re: Bonding and grounding on Maramu

Alan Leslie
 

Hi  Miles,

If your boat is like ours, which I assume it is......

On the skeg is a sintered bronze plate which is the ground for the SSB radio.
The wire from that should end up in the nav station area and only be connected to the ground connection on the SSB..
This cable often has BLU written on it.
This cable is only connected to the bonding system if there is no SSB.
If you have an SSB connected to this cable, there should not be a connection from this cable to the bonding system.

The bonding system is all the wires from metal items in connection with seawater connected together and eventually connected to the rudder shaft which is connected to the anodes on the rudder.

So if you don't have an SSB, it seems correct.
If you do, it isn't.

Cheers
Alan

Re: Bonding and grounding on Maramu

smiles bernard
 

Thanks for your reply Kent
Hmmm confused still.
Which bit in the photos is the ssb grounding plate connection?

I have 0 ohms when I test between the  copper strap In the transom locker and the rudder post connectors so assumed these are all bonding ?

Thanks again

Miles


On 22 Feb 2020, at 21:21, karkauai via Groups.Io <karkauai@...> wrote:


You are seeing the grounding plate)cables for the SSB counterpoise.  The copper strap in the bilge is the keel connection to the bonding system and zincs (assuming it is like the SM) which connects to the zincs via the rudder post.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Feb 22, 2020 4:02 PM, "smiles bernard via Groups.Io" <smilesbernard@...> wrote:

Hello folks

I’m just in the process of replacing the keel bolt bonding strap on my 1985 Maramu.

It’s led to some head scratching re bonding and grounding and the wiring runs on these lovely boats.

SeaLove has a copper ground plate on the skeg. I assume my radar is grounded to this. Perhaps also my furuno weatherfax etc

Can anyone be kind enough to explain where the connection to the ground plate typically surfaces?

Also to check my assumptions re the bonding system setup. . . .
I think  all bonding cables run onto a connection in the transom as per the photo attached



It ‘looks’ like this copper plate is glasses into the hull and runs down the transom to surface near the rudder via the two tubes shown on the left in the photo below :


For some reason this surfaces as 2 separate cables that then are both connected to the rudder stock, and hence the anode on the rudder :




Does  this bonding setup look about right ?

Slightly confused as to why there are 2 cables here ?


Many thanks in advance

Miles
Maramu 162




Re: Bonding and grounding on Maramu

karkauai
 

You are seeing the grounding plate)cables for the SSB counterpoise.  The copper strap in the bilge is the keel connection to the bonding system and zincs (assuming it is like the SM) which connects to the zincs via the rudder post.
Kent
SM 243
Kristy

On Feb 22, 2020 4:02 PM, "smiles bernard via Groups.Io" <smilesbernard@...> wrote:

Hello folks

I’m just in the process of replacing the keel bolt bonding strap on my 1985 Maramu.

It’s led to some head scratching re bonding and grounding and the wiring runs on these lovely boats.

SeaLove has a copper ground plate on the skeg. I assume my radar is grounded to this. Perhaps also my furuno weatherfax etc

Can anyone be kind enough to explain where the connection to the ground plate typically surfaces?

Also to check my assumptions re the bonding system setup. . . .
I think  all bonding cables run onto a connection in the transom as per the photo attached



It ‘looks’ like this copper plate is glasses into the hull and runs down the transom to surface near the rudder via the two tubes shown on the left in the photo below :


For some reason this surfaces as 2 separate cables that then are both connected to the rudder stock, and hence the anode on the rudder :




Does  this bonding setup look about right ?

Slightly confused as to why there are 2 cables here ?


Many thanks in advance

Miles
Maramu 162




Bonding and grounding on Maramu

smiles bernard
 

Hello folks

I’m just in the process of replacing the keel bolt bonding strap on my 1985 Maramu.

It’s led to some head scratching re bonding and grounding and the wiring runs on these lovely boats.

SeaLove has a copper ground plate on the skeg. I assume my radar is grounded to this. Perhaps also my furuno weatherfax etc

Can anyone be kind enough to explain where the connection to the ground plate typically surfaces?

Also to check my assumptions re the bonding system setup. . . .
I think all bonding cables run onto a connection in the transom as per the photo attached



It ‘looks’ like this copper plate is glasses into the hull and runs down the transom to surface near the rudder via the two tubes shown on the left in the photo below :


For some reason this surfaces as 2 separate cables that then are both connected to the rudder stock, and hence the anode on the rudder :




Does this bonding setup look about right ?

Slightly confused as to why there are 2 cables here ?


Many thanks in advance

Miles
Maramu 162

Re: Headliner fix

Chip Beaman
 

Joel,
WOW I knew there were health risks associated with the removal. Did not know it was that bad. Your first hand knowledge of this is very powerful, thank you for that response and warning. I will remember that always and pass it on.

I am of the opinion that the plywood that was placed over the vynal to avoid/defer the removal is not a bad solution. I’m of equal opinion, at some point it must be addressed.
I am guessing the replacement is not a cheap date.

Thank you again for your response.

Chip
Future Amel Owner

Re: Headliner fix

amelforme
 

Here is some helpful information regarding the headliner with the foam backing.

FIRST AND FOREMOST. THIS STUFF IS DEADLY POISONOUS AS IT IS MADE OF POLYURETHNE. IT TURNS INTO A FINE DUST AS IT DRIES OUT AND CRUMBLES. ONE NEEDS TO WEAR AN APPROPRIATE RESPIRATOR AND USE EYE PROTECTION AND PROTECTIVE CLOTHING TO PREVENT SEVERE HEALTH COMPLICATIONS. YEARS AGO, I WAS INVOLVED IN WORKING OUT A PROCESS TO REHANG THE FALLING VINYL AS MANY OF THE  AMEL BOATS I WAS RESELLING HAD THIS CHALLENGE.  ON THE VERY FIRST JOB AFTER TAKING DOWN THE HEADLINER, I GOT VERY ILL AND MY 65 YEAR OLD  EXPERT YINYL HANGER ENDED UP IN THE HOSPITAL AND ALMOST DIED. I CANNOT OVEREMPHACIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING EXTREMELY CAUTIOUS AND TAKE EVERY PRECAUGHTION TO NOT BREATHE OR IN ANYWAY INJEST IT OR GET IT IN YOUR EYES. I ENDED UP DOING THREE OR FOUR BOATS PERSONALLY WITH HELPERS ,AND SUPERVISED ANOTHER TWENTY OR SO BOATS OVER THE YEARS.  Working during the hot and humid Florida summer wearing a respirator and a plastic full coverage overall suit was not anywhere near as uncomfortable as getting sick from this stuff. BE CAREFUL.

As further caution, in the early days of polyurethane paint, the warnings on the cans said, " Do not use this product without a respirator and appropriate protective clothing. It will kill you."  I remember asking the paint foreman at the yard I used in San Diego ( Kettenburg's , remember them? Condominiums are there now ) what was with that warning. He said the paint distributor told him a lot of the older paint sprayer specialists got very sick and died because they did not pay attention to a milder warning about 'serious health risks’ and the paint makers were tired of being sued. I am as serious as a heart attack, the dust from the poly foam will make you wish you had been more careful. I was sick for a month.

I have written about this before on the  Amel owners group site and there are several ways to accomplish a good and attractive repair. Here is the most important background information. Every Kirk, Sharki, Maramu, Mango, Santorin and Super Maramu built prior to about February 2006 had the polyurethane foam backing on the headliner. Boats built after that had an organic spun cotton/felt backing which does not deteriorate with thermal cycling that occurs with each sun up/sun down. I have yet to see any of the boats with the felt backing have anything more than minor problems with adhesion and it won’t try to kill you when you work with it like polyurethane will.

Again, there are several ways to get a good repair, dependent on if the original vinyl hasn’t been ruined with attempts to re-hang it with glues that ‘melt’ it. If you must replace the vinyl, I would suggest cotton backed material as it does not deteriorate like most every kind of plastic foam will.

 

All The Best, Joel      

 

       JOEL F. POTTER-CRUISING YACHT SPECIALIST~L.L.C.

                                           THE  EXPERIENCED AMEL GUY

UNSURPASSED AMEL MARKETING EXPERIENCE AND PRODUCT KNOWLEDGE

                                   Office 954-462-5869  Cell 954-812-2485

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Chip Beaman
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2020 11:25 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Headliner fix

 

Great comments and advice. Thank you Sir.

 

Chip

Future Amel Owner

 

 

 

 

Re: Headliner fix

 

The issue wasn't that they used foam. The issue was the type of foam and the process of adhering the foam to the vinyl. This is the reason that the problem doesn't exist in later Amel SMs.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 10:29 AM Matt Salatino via Groups.Io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Many boat manufacturers used similar, foam-backed vinyl. All had sagging issues as a result. None should be using it today, unless they don’t care what happens 8-10 years down the road, after warranties are long gone. On our previous boat (as did many manufacturers), we fixed the problem by removing the panel, removing the vinyl, cleaning the deteriorated foam off both the panel and vinyl, and reflux got with contact cement. Hundreds of boats, if not thousands did this.....

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 22, 2020, at 10:50 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Chip,

I normally say something like, "trust the original design." But, "trust" is what got us to this point. I think Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam manufacturers to deliver a good product to the vinyl covering manufacturer. And, I believe that Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam backing on the headliner to last a lot longer, but so did most automobile manufacturers at the same time period.

I really do not have the kind of thermal engineering background to be sure that the following comments are 100% correct, but I believe they are: 
An Amel is an unusually dry boat, however, one can change the original design and unintentionally create barriers that aid/cause moisture to form from condensation because of a difference in temperature. This is sometimes inadvertently done by modifying refrigeration or air conditioning, and I assume could be done by adding a non-breathing barrier to the ceiling where the outside temperature and inside temperature can merge to create condensation. I believe that I am correct when I say that most boat builders use materials that breathe in these situations (including the foam layer on the backside of the vinyl in an Amel).

I suggest recovering the ceiling with a foam-backed vinyl from a "trusted source."

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar
cloudHQPowered by
cloudHQ


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Chip Beaman <chip@...> wrote:
Thank you Bill, I have read and spoke to folks about the daunting task of headliner replacement. To do it right, replacing the headliner is the right thing to do, I guess, that’s what I am trying to find out. The current owner did a fantastic job covering it and I love the look of it. My great concern, is mold growth in areas of higher humidity. Mold mitigation strategies are a given, regardless of the current liner solution. I just don’t know if it is a bridge to far to expect normal processes to keep mold from growing between the old liner and the covering material (painted plywood)???????
Thank you Sir for all you do.

Chip
Future Amel Owner






Re: Headliner fix

Matt Salatino
 

Many boat manufacturers used similar, foam-backed vinyl. All had sagging issues as a result. None should be using it today, unless they don’t care what happens 8-10 years down the road, after warranties are long gone. On our previous boat (as did many manufacturers), we fixed the problem by removing the panel, removing the vinyl, cleaning the deteriorated foam off both the panel and vinyl, and reflux got with contact cement. Hundreds of boats, if not thousands did this.....

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 22, 2020, at 10:50 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

Chip,

I normally say something like, "trust the original design." But, "trust" is what got us to this point. I think Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam manufacturers to deliver a good product to the vinyl covering manufacturer. And, I believe that Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam backing on the headliner to last a lot longer, but so did most automobile manufacturers at the same time period.

I really do not have the kind of thermal engineering background to be sure that the following comments are 100% correct, but I believe they are: 
An Amel is an unusually dry boat, however, one can change the original design and unintentionally create barriers that aid/cause moisture to form from condensation because of a difference in temperature. This is sometimes inadvertently done by modifying refrigeration or air conditioning, and I assume could be done by adding a non-breathing barrier to the ceiling where the outside temperature and inside temperature can merge to create condensation. I believe that I am correct when I say that most boat builders use materials that breathe in these situations (including the foam layer on the backside of the vinyl in an Amel).

I suggest recovering the ceiling with a foam-backed vinyl from a "trusted source."

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar
cloudHQPowered by
cloudHQ


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Chip Beaman <chip@...> wrote:
Thank you Bill, I have read and spoke to folks about the daunting task of headliner replacement. To do it right, replacing the headliner is the right thing to do, I guess, that’s what I am trying to find out. The current owner did a fantastic job covering it and I love the look of it. My great concern, is mold growth in areas of higher humidity. Mold mitigation strategies are a given, regardless of the current liner solution. I just don’t know if it is a bridge to far to expect normal processes to keep mold from growing between the old liner and the covering material (painted plywood)???????
Thank you Sir for all you do.

Chip
Future Amel Owner






Re: Headliner fix

Chip Beaman
 

Great comments and advice. Thank you Sir.

Chip
Future Amel Owner

Re: Headliner fix

 

Chip,

I normally say something like, "trust the original design." But, "trust" is what got us to this point. I think Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam manufacturers to deliver a good product to the vinyl covering manufacturer. And, I believe that Henri Amel trusted the polyfoam backing on the headliner to last a lot longer, but so did most automobile manufacturers at the same time period.

I really do not have the kind of thermal engineering background to be sure that the following comments are 100% correct, but I believe they are: 
An Amel is an unusually dry boat, however, one can change the original design and unintentionally create barriers that aid/cause moisture to form from condensation because of a difference in temperature. This is sometimes inadvertently done by modifying refrigeration or air conditioning, and I assume could be done by adding a non-breathing barrier to the ceiling where the outside temperature and inside temperature can merge to create condensation. I believe that I am correct when I say that most boat builders use materials that breathe in these situations (including the foam layer on the backside of the vinyl in an Amel).

I suggest recovering the ceiling with a foam-backed vinyl from a "trusted source."

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar
cloudHQPowered by
cloudHQ


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Chip Beaman <chip@...> wrote:
Thank you Bill, I have read and spoke to folks about the daunting task of headliner replacement. To do it right, replacing the headliner is the right thing to do, I guess, that’s what I am trying to find out. The current owner did a fantastic job covering it and I love the look of it. My great concern, is mold growth in areas of higher humidity. Mold mitigation strategies are a given, regardless of the current liner solution. I just don’t know if it is a bridge to far to expect normal processes to keep mold from growing between the old liner and the covering material (painted plywood)???????
Thank you Sir for all you do.

Chip
Future Amel Owner






Re: Headliner fix

Chip Beaman <chip@...>
 

Thank you Bill, I have read and spoke to folks about the daunting task of headliner replacement. To do it right, replacing the headliner is the right thing to do, I guess, that’s what I am trying to find out. The current owner did a fantastic job covering it and I love the look of it. My great concern, is mold growth in areas of higher humidity. Mold mitigation strategies are a given, regardless of the current liner solution. I just don’t know if it is a bridge to far to expect normal processes to keep mold from growing between the old liner and the covering material (painted plywood)???????
Thank you Sir for all you do.

Chip
Future Amel Owner

Re: Headliner fix

Chip Beaman
 

Thank you Bill, I have read and spoke to folks about the daunting task of headliner replacement. To do it right, replacing the headliner is the right thing to do, I guess, that’s what I am trying to find out. The current owner did a fantastic job covering it and I love the look of it. My great concern, is mold growth in areas of higher humidity. Mold mitigation strategies are a given, regardless of the current liner solution. I just don’t know if it is a bridge to far to expect normal processes to keep mold from growing between the old liner and the covering material (painted plywood)???????
Thank you Sir for all you do.

Chip
Future Amel Owner

Re: Headliner fix

 

The reason earlier model Amels had sagging headliner was that after about 15 years the foam backing on the vinyl disintegrated. The glue was attached to the foam. 

The best way to repair this is to remove all of the old and then glue new foam-backed vinyl in place. Hint: in some cases you will be able to use the old vinyl as a pattern. This is a difficult and tedious process. Experience and patience are two important tools. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Fri, Feb 21, 2020, 11:24 PM Chip Beaman <chipfrog128@...> wrote:
A 1982 Maramu in low humidity area, headliner sagging.  The fix, cover the inside cabin overhead along with the sagging headliner with painted plywood. 
It looks nice, but my question is-
 
If the boat goes to an area with higher humidity, would mold be a concern between the plywood, old headliner and cabin top????
 
I think it would be, but I don’t know that for fact.  If you have any experience with this please pipe in. 
 
Thank you
Chip Beaman
Future Amel Owner 

Re: Size of main anchor for Super Maramu

Ian Park
 

Paul,
Unless they have changed the design, the Spade has a hollow shank to maximise the lead weighted tip. Mine bent, but maybe that was a one off. I changed to a Rocna after that. Otherwise the Spade held very well.
Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96

Re: Size of main anchor for Super Maramu

Paul Osterberg
 


Pat
We will replace our 40 kg Rocna. The two first year we were super pleased with the performance we had encounter several bad gale nights without moving an inch, but the last year we have noticed that when wind shift 180 degree we have dragged even at moderate winds, that has happened during several occasions, I have googled and found several post about the relatively poor reseting properties of the Rocna. My next anchor will be a Spade.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM#259

Headliner fix

Chip Beaman
 

A 1982 Maramu in low humidity area, headliner sagging.  The fix, cover the inside cabin overhead along with the sagging headliner with painted plywood. 
It looks nice, but my question is-
 
If the boat goes to an area with higher humidity, would mold be a concern between the plywood, old headliner and cabin top????
 
I think it would be, but I don’t know that for fact.  If you have any experience with this please pipe in. 
 
Thank you
Chip Beaman
Future Amel Owner 

Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Greetings Scott

We are moving Island Pearl II from AGM to Lithium this week here in Australia, so I just wanted to shout out to you with a huge thanks for all your hard work here and for sharing. It has been a huge help to us!

Our system will not be as complex as yours, and particularly we have decided to go with 24v Lithium batteries instead of connecting banks of two 12v's in series, and we already had the Victron 3000w/70amp Multi Inverter/Charger installed in the "ex wet locker" (our cockpit is fully enclosed so the Admiral never allows wet gear downstairs anyway!). Even on the old AGM's at 450amp hrs capacity, we have never experienced any heating problem with this unit situated there, and we particularly placed it there due to advice about placing it closer to the battery banks. This also had the advantage to us of having both Dolphin chargers still available too as a backup. With 1040w solar, plus two Rutland 1200 wind gens, we have frequently run 3 x full 6.5kg loads in the clothes washer in a single hot sunny day on the batteries alone, but to get to this we had to replace the old Thompson washer with the latest Bosch model 6.5kg washer last year. We don't normally like to run the rear aircon on the inverter for long but now with Lithium we think that would be a real possibility too!

Since we were almost completely running on nature alone before with this existing setup, we very much hope that the switch to 4 x 100Amp hr 24v LifePo4 batteries will be the absolute end of us ever needing the Genset, other than to give it it's normal once two weekly run to ensure we don't "lose it through not using it!"

Wishing you and Mia a wonderful cruising season this year and we do hope to catch up with you if and when you ever sail into Brisbane, Australia.

Best regards

Colin & Lauren Streeter
SV Island Pearl II SM#332
Newport Marina, Brisbane, Australia





On Sat, Feb 22, 2020 at 11:17 AM Scott SV Tengah <Scott.nguyen@...> wrote:
One more thing - I know of another A54 owner who has the 3kva inverter and he stated that it won't run his clothes washer. This is a big surprise to me because my Beko is rated for around 1500 watts I believe. But I guess the startup spike is too high for a 3kva.

Running the washing machine's 3.5 hour program on battery/inverter vs. having to run the genset for that long is one of the reasons I got lfp, so you might want to consider that.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com



--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445