Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] First Impressions: Firefly Batteries.

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Bill, which charge voltage controle system / unit do you use in your boat?
Regards, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54#15


On Thursday, December 14, 2017, 1:06:12 AM GMT-4, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:


 

In a previous post I explained my rational for purchasing Firefly batteries in this battery replacement cycle.  They arrived a few days ago (finally!) and here are my initial impressions.


Physical fit:  They are Group 31 batteries, which is nothing but a specification on the physical size of the battery case, so they should be drop in replacements, right?  Wrong!  They are a little bit higher than our old Lifeline batteries, so I needed to trim a bit off the wood brace on the bottom of the compartment lid.  Also, the terminals are high enough that the battery terminal fuses I had been using no longer fit under the lid, so I swapped four 125 amp terminal fuses for a single 500 amp ANL fuse.  Neither was a big deal, but both were annoying.


It is very not fair to evaluate batteries when first installed.  Batteries take at least 10 charge/discharge cycles to settle in to their long term groove.  That said...  


One of the reasons I went with these was their higher charge acceptance rate.  Wow.  What a difference.  Our Lifeline AGMs (which are very good at rapid charging) would taper down to 18 amps charge rate by the time they got to 85% charge.  The Fireflys were still accepting over 50 amps at 85% charge...  Once they have settled in and I have a bit more experience with them I'll post more hard data, but so far, they look like they will at least match my expectations.


Again, these are not for everybody. They are expensive, hard to get, and need proper charge voltage control (especially on float) that not every charging system can do. The benefits of the extra cost really depend on how you use your boat.


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

James Alton
 

Ryan,

   I am currently in Nova Scotia and sometimes cruise late in the season with my Loki Yawl.  Even though she is a wooden hull, I still get a considerable amount of condensation at times during that time of the year.    With a single skin glass hull, it would be natural to have more than a wooden hull.  It really does sound to me like you just have a bit of swelling going on and that you are not doing anything wrong. Plywood is a lot more stable than solid wood so won’t swell as much but if the clearance is already pretty tight it doesn’t take much.  I note that the floor panels in my Maramu are snug and one is even tight with the boat located in Sardinia where the air is very dry during the summer.   Perhaps Amel normally fits these panels pretty tight on the SM as well?  It’s ironic that tight fitting panels seem to be one of the curses of a quality boat in a way since the worker that takes pride in making the joints in a bulkhead almost invisible may have a hard time leaving enough space in the floor panels to allow for swelling.  When I am fitting planking to a wooden boat, I try to get down to 5 thousandths using a feeler gauge… I just can’t help myself. (grin)   Regardless, if you plan to keep your boat in Northern waters it sounds like you will need to do a little trimming but it should not take much.  If you have a low angle block plane you can slowly take off just what you need without making a big mess inside the boat and vacuum up the inert shavings. Check to be sure that you are cutting the edges square as you go..  I would then sand to smooth and radius all edges and reseal the exposed edges of the floor panels with a couple of coats of varnish for protection.   The finish could wait until the weather is warm so that you don’t have to breath the fumes.  Again, since plywood is quite stable it won’t shrink much, so if you only take of what is needed, I doubt that you will even notice the fine gap in the fit of the panels once things dry out.  Having some extra room may also prevent future damage to the edges of these panels.

   It sounds like you understand relative humidity.  Yes, if the water temperature is above well above the dew point as in your example of the -10C outside air and the water at +9C your boat will be dry.  I have had great luck drying out boat storage buildings during the damp fall by venting the buildings when the cold dry air moves in such as the -10C weather that you mentioned.  When you capture that cold dry air and warm it back up to you +10C it will be super dry and help dry the boat out.  

Best of luck,

James 
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

On Dec 14, 2017, at 1:35 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi James,
Yes, at times there has been a bit of condensation in some of the bilge areas.  I believe it is coming from the topsides, not below the waterline.  The water is still 48°F/9°C.  The air has been down to 13°F/-10°C (last night; I would expect to see only a few more days all winter at that temperature or colder).  I haven't seen any sweating directly on the surfaces exposed to water, but I have seen the occasional drop run from places higher up which I can't see directly.  I am indeed measuring the humidity at table height... I will put a sensor in the bilge and see what it says.  I keep the boat heated to a minimum of 50°F/10°C (I think it got down to 48°F in the engine room last night, which is not actively heated).  I have been vigilant at wiping up water when I see it, but I can't do it 24/7.  With the ambient humidity being so low, I haven't seen any condensation at all in a few days.  With my old boat, it was usually just a few weeks in the fall and spring where I would have condensation, and most of the winter it was dry enough that it wasn't an issue.  If the online calculator I found is to be trusted, the dew point inside the boat should be right around freezing right now, so there won't be condensation on most surfaces (and if there is, it would be frost).  I am confident the panels are in the right locations and orientations as they perfectly span the bulkheads (ribs?) beneath the sole and the rubber lines line up with the rest of the sole.  I'll try out the feeler gauge... I've been looking for an excuse to buy one for years.

Obviously, I need to sail south next winter!

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:00 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well I don’t know about that…  I personally really enjoy the warmth of the varnished wooden panels in my Amel….


James

On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Yahoo! Mail sammie.whammie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Wood has no place in a boat.


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:52 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Ryan,

   Is there any moisture at all present in the bilge area where the panels are becoming tight?  I would check the hull surfaces and the underside of the floor.   Are you taking your  humidity readings at the level of the floor or higher up in the cabin?   I am guessing that you are heating the boat to well above the current temperature of the water?   If the instrument that you are using to read off the relative humidity is well above the floor then the relative humidity in the bilge could be much higher.  For instance, if you are reading  20C and 53% relative humidity in a location several feet above the floor level, that same air when cooled to 10C in the bilges from the cold water will be at saturation.  (100% relative humidity)    I am confused as to why drying the panels did not seem to help but perhaps the floor itself has swelled enough to create the fit problems?  This is a hard problem to troubleshoot from a distance but in general I usually find that when wooden parts  fit properly when the wood is known to be dry begin to become tight that moisture/swelling of the wood is usually the culprit.   Perhaps the reason that the panels are the tight only in the main cabin is because the cabin sole is because the athwartship dimension of the total panel is the greatest in this area of the boat hence more total swelling.  I assume that you have checked to be sure that the panels are being inserted into the correct location? 

  It might be worth taking a feeler gauge and checking to see where the panels are actually binding since that might provide a clue as to what is going on.  See if there is a pattern that repeats when comparing the Port and Stb. side.  I don’t know how long your lift out panels are but if wood swells unevenly you can end up with a curved shape that might show up from taking a few measurements.  The feeler gauge will also show you the tight areas that you will need to trim if it comes to that...

Best of luck,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  
On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@gmail.com> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
 
Ryan,

   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open..

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelya chtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:
 
Hi Ryan,
Have you checked the hinges,
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@...  [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:

 
 
Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
 

 

















Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

Ryan Meador
 

Hi James,
Yes, at times there has been a bit of condensation in some of the bilge areas.  I believe it is coming from the topsides, not below the waterline.  The water is still 48°F/9°C.  The air has been down to 13°F/-10°C (last night; I would expect to see only a few more days all winter at that temperature or colder).  I haven't seen any sweating directly on the surfaces exposed to water, but I have seen the occasional drop run from places higher up which I can't see directly.  I am indeed measuring the humidity at table height... I will put a sensor in the bilge and see what it says.  I keep the boat heated to a minimum of 50°F/10°C (I think it got down to 48°F in the engine room last night, which is not actively heated).  I have been vigilant at wiping up water when I see it, but I can't do it 24/7.  With the ambient humidity being so low, I haven't seen any condensation at all in a few days.  With my old boat, it was usually just a few weeks in the fall and spring where I would have condensation, and most of the winter it was dry enough that it wasn't an issue.  If the online calculator I found is to be trusted, the dew point inside the boat should be right around freezing right now, so there won't be condensation on most surfaces (and if there is, it would be frost).  I am confident the panels are in the right locations and orientations as they perfectly span the bulkheads (ribs?) beneath the sole and the rubber lines line up with the rest of the sole.  I'll try out the feeler gauge... I've been looking for an excuse to buy one for years.

Obviously, I need to sail south next winter!

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:00 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Well I don’t know about that…  I personally really enjoy the warmth of the varnished wooden panels in my Amel….


James

On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Yahoo! Mail sammie.whammie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Wood has no place in a boat.


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:52 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
Ryan,

   Is there any moisture at all present in the bilge area where the panels are becoming tight?  I would check the hull surfaces and the underside of the floor.   Are you taking your  humidity readings at the level of the floor or higher up in the cabin?   I am guessing that you are heating the boat to well above the current temperature of the water?   If the instrument that you are using to read off the relative humidity is well above the floor then the relative humidity in the bilge could be much higher.  For instance, if you are reading  20C and 53% relative humidity in a location several feet above the floor level, that same air when cooled to 10C in the bilges from the cold water will be at saturation.  (100% relative humidity)    I am confused as to why drying the panels did not seem to help but perhaps the floor itself has swelled enough to create the fit problems?  This is a hard problem to troubleshoot from a distance but in general I usually find that when wooden parts  fit properly when the wood is known to be dry begin to become tight that moisture/swelling of the wood is usually the culprit.   Perhaps the reason that the panels are the tight only in the main cabin is because the cabin sole is because the athwartship dimension of the total panel is the greatest in this area of the boat hence more total swelling.  I assume that you have checked to be sure that the panels are being inserted into the correct location? 

  It might be worth taking a feeler gauge and checking to see where the panels are actually binding since that might provide a clue as to what is going on.  See if there is a pattern that repeats when comparing the Port and Stb. side.  I don’t know how long your lift out panels are but if wood swells unevenly you can end up with a curved shape that might show up from taking a few measurements.  The feeler gauge will also show you the tight areas that you will need to trim if it comes to that...

Best of luck,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  
On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@gmail.com> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
 
Ryan,

   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open..

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelya chtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:
 
Hi Ryan,
Have you checked the hinges,
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@...  [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:

 
 
Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
 

 














Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

James Alton
 

Well I don’t know about that…  I personally really enjoy the warmth of the varnished wooden panels in my Amel….

James

On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:14 AM, Yahoo! Mail sammie.whammie@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Wood has no place in a boat.


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:52 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
Ryan,

   Is there any moisture at all present in the bilge area where the panels are becoming tight?  I would check the hull surfaces and the underside of the floor.   Are you taking your  humidity readings at the level of the floor or higher up in the cabin?   I am guessing that you are heating the boat to well above the current temperature of the water?   If the instrument that you are using to read off the relative humidity is well above the floor then the relative humidity in the bilge could be much higher.  For instance, if you are reading  20C and 53% relative humidity in a location several feet above the floor level, that same air when cooled to 10C in the bilges from the cold water will be at saturation.  (100% relative humidity)    I am confused as to why drying the panels did not seem to help but perhaps the floor itself has swelled enough to create the fit problems?  This is a hard problem to troubleshoot from a distance but in general I usually find that when wooden parts  fit properly when the wood is known to be dry begin to become tight that moisture/swelling of the wood is usually the culprit.   Perhaps the reason that the panels are the tight only in the main cabin is because the cabin sole is because the athwartship dimension of the total panel is the greatest in this area of the boat hence more total swelling.  I assume that you have checked to be sure that the panels are being inserted into the correct location? 

  It might be worth taking a feeler gauge and checking to see where the panels are actually binding since that might provide a clue as to what is going on.  See if there is a pattern that repeats when comparing the Port and Stb. side.  I don’t know how long your lift out panels are but if wood swells unevenly you can end up with a curved shape that might show up from taking a few measurements.  The feeler gauge will also show you the tight areas that you will need to trim if it comes to that...

Best of luck,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  
On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
 
Ryan,

   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelya chtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:
 
Hi Ryan,
Have you checked the hinges,
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@...  [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:

 
 
Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
 

 













Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

Stephen Hancock
 

Wood has no place in a boat.


On Wednesday, December 13, 2017 11:52 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Ryan,

   Is there any moisture at all present in the bilge area where the panels are becoming tight?  I would check the hull surfaces and the underside of the floor.   Are you taking your  humidity readings at the level of the floor or higher up in the cabin?   I am guessing that you are heating the boat to well above the current temperature of the water?   If the instrument that you are using to read off the relative humidity is well above the floor then the relative humidity in the bilge could be much higher.  For instance, if you are reading  20C and 53% relative humidity in a location several feet above the floor level, that same air when cooled to 10C in the bilges from the cold water will be at saturation.  (100% relative humidity)    I am confused as to why drying the panels did not seem to help but perhaps the floor itself has swelled enough to create the fit problems?  This is a hard problem to troubleshoot from a distance but in general I usually find that when wooden parts  fit properly when the wood is known to be dry begin to become tight that moisture/swelling of the wood is usually the culprit.   Perhaps the reason that the panels are the tight only in the main cabin is because the cabin sole is because the athwartship dimension of the total panel is the greatest in this area of the boat hence more total swelling.  I assume that you have checked to be sure that the panels are being inserted into the correct location? 

  It might be worth taking a feeler gauge and checking to see where the panels are actually binding since that might provide a clue as to what is going on.  See if there is a pattern that repeats when comparing the Port and Stb. side.  I don’t know how long your lift out panels are but if wood swells unevenly you can end up with a curved shape that might show up from taking a few measurements.  The feeler gauge will also show you the tight areas that you will need to trim if it comes to that...

Best of luck,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  
On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:
 
Ryan,

   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelya chtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:
 
Hi Ryan,
Have you checked the hinges,
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl
On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@...  [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... om> wrote:

 
 
Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA
 

 











Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Viewing Amel 54 - what to look for?

Dean Gillies
 

Hi Scott,
I would also recommend Olivier for the survey. He surveyed our 54 in August 17 and we were very satisfied with his service.
We also dealt with broker Michel Charpentier, and he was great too.

I don't believe you will find a better long distance short-handed cruising yacht design than the Amel. I particularly like the 54.

I'm a relative newbie to Amel and others on this forum may know about 'generic' issues to look for, but for your reference we found the following issues with our 2010 model.

Air-con cooling water pump intermittently did not start.

Lopo bow light and tricolour did not work. Replacements provided by Lopo free-of-charge.

Engine start battery was outgassing when charged. You must look carefully in the battery compartment for signs of corrosion etc caused by outgassing. There is a very large battery/charging capacity on these boats and it must be managed properly. It's easy to damage the batteries.

We also have a noisy (but working) staysail furling motor. I will need to replace it in the near future.

As noted by others, you should be looking to see a well-loved and regularly maintained boat. This should be fairly obvious to you on close inspection.

If it looks good to you then your surveyor will make sure all the details are checked.

We bought our 54 in August in Italy, and we are extremely happy with the boat.

Good luck
Dean
SY Stella
Amel 54 #154


First Impressions: Firefly Batteries.

greatketch@...
 

In a previous post I explained my rational for purchasing Firefly batteries in this battery replacement cycle.  They arrived a few days ago (finally!) and here are my initial impressions.


Physical fit:  They are Group 31 batteries, which is nothing but a specification on the physical size of the battery case, so they should be drop in replacements, right?  Wrong!  They are a little bit higher than our old Lifeline batteries, so I needed to trim a bit off the wood brace on the bottom of the compartment lid.  Also, the terminals are high enough that the battery terminal fuses I had been using no longer fit under the lid, so I swapped four 125 amp terminal fuses for a single 500 amp ANL fuse.  Neither was a big deal, but both were annoying.


It is very not fair to evaluate batteries when first installed.  Batteries take at least 10 charge/discharge cycles to settle in to their long term groove.  That said...  


One of the reasons I went with these was their higher charge acceptance rate.  Wow.  What a difference.  Our Lifeline AGMs (which are very good at rapid charging) would taper down to 18 amps charge rate by the time they got to 85% charge.  The Fireflys were still accepting over 50 amps at 85% charge...  Once they have settled in and I have a bit more experience with them I'll post more hard data, but so far, they look like they will at least match my expectations.


Again, these are not for everybody. They are expensive, hard to get, and need proper charge voltage control (especially on float) that not every charging system can do. The benefits of the extra cost really depend on how you use your boat.


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

James Alton
 

Ryan,

   Is there any moisture at all present in the bilge area where the panels are becoming tight?  I would check the hull surfaces and the underside of the floor.   Are you taking your  humidity readings at the level of the floor or higher up in the cabin?   I am guessing that you are heating the boat to well above the current temperature of the water?   If the instrument that you are using to read off the relative humidity is well above the floor then the relative humidity in the bilge could be much higher.  For instance, if you are reading  20C and 53% relative humidity in a location several feet above the floor level, that same air when cooled to 10C in the bilges from the cold water will be at saturation.  (100% relative humidity)    I am confused as to why drying the panels did not seem to help but perhaps the floor itself has swelled enough to create the fit problems?  This is a hard problem to troubleshoot from a distance but in general I usually find that when wooden parts  fit properly when the wood is known to be dry begin to become tight that moisture/swelling of the wood is usually the culprit.   Perhaps the reason that the panels are the tight only in the main cabin is because the cabin sole is because the athwartship dimension of the total panel is the greatest in this area of the boat hence more total swelling.  I assume that you have checked to be sure that the panels are being inserted into the correct location? 

  It might be worth taking a feeler gauge and checking to see where the panels are actually binding since that might provide a clue as to what is going on.  See if there is a pattern that repeats when comparing the Port and Stb. side.  I don’t know how long your lift out panels are but if wood swells unevenly you can end up with a curved shape that might show up from taking a few measurements.  The feeler gauge will also show you the tight areas that you will need to trim if it comes to that...

Best of luck,

James

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
  

On Dec 13, 2017, at 11:49 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ryan,


   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

Have you checked the hinges,

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 










Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Easy Lock Companionway Slide

Ryan Meador
 

I got my cam a few days ago, and I am loving it.  Opening and closing the door doesn't seem like a chore anymore!  Thanks, Bill.

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 7:21 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,

I am also adding a block of some plastic like nylon or something more shock resistant to the area above the locking board.

In this way when I pull up the companionway it will be in the exact place to close the latches. I am tired of having to look at the board to see if it is lined up.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

.

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 7:10 PM


To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Easy Lock Companionway Slide

 

 

Bill,

I actually like the metal ones better. However I did not know of them at the time.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 6:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Easy Lock Companionway Slide

 

 

The files on the homemade cam were posted by Bill Rouse.  They are a great design and I am sure work well, and certainly look great.

 

As a full time liveaboard, the option of machining teak really isn't available to me.  Even if it was, my time is more valuable than the cost of the commercially available lever cams.  

 

Of course there are others who would enjoy the process of making them from scratch, and not put a price on the time involved.  They will end up with something more elegant than I have and I would not begrudge them such satisfaction for a second.

 

The commercial product is certainly not as nice a solution as the custom made teak cams, but are they are way better than the handwheels!

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] can't open saloon floor panels

Ryan Meador
 

James,
I removed all the floor panels and dried them out by propping them up around the saloon for 4 days.  The temperature never went below 50°F/10°C and humidity was never above 50%.  It doesn't seemed to have changed anything.  They're just as hard to fit as before, to the point where I'm afraid to jam the last one in; I might need to use a crowbar to get it open again.  So I have the one at the forward end of the saloon sitting 90 degrees off from where it belongs... there's only a minimal risk of breaking an ankle.

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 8:14 PM, Ryan Meador <ryan.d.meador@...> wrote:
That's an interesting theory. The water temperature is about 50 degrees right now. I'll give your idea a test.

Thanks,
Ryan

On Dec 2, 2017 7:08 PM, "James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Ryan,


   If the boat is currently in cold Boston waters, it is possible that the heated air (with a higher relative humidity) is condensing on the colder panels and soaking in, thereby swelling the wood.   You might try removing one panel, placing it in a relatively high location so that it will see the higher temperatures/lower relative humidity and see if it returns to a size that fits the location.  If the test panel fits after drying for a few days, then you have your answer.  

Best,

James

SV Sueno 
Maramu #220

On Dec 2, 2017, at 7:05 PM, Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


There aren't any hinges; all of the panels lift out.

I also just this evening realized that the panel outboard of the table is stuck too, but the ones directly beneath the table are easy to open.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA



On Dec 2, 2017 12:34 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,

Have you checked the hinges,

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 02 December 2017 at 11:51 "Ryan Meador ryan.d.meador@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

 

 

Hi all,
My SM has the wooden floor panels, not the blue ones.  A while after I bought the boat in the beginning of August, I noticed the smoothly-opening floor panels that run the length of the saloon were taking some effort to open.  I chalked it up to humidity.  But it's been getting worse, to the point where I now need to use a tool to grab onto the holes to lift them as my fingers aren't strong enough.  None of the other floor panels on the boat are affected.  My hygrometer has been reading 45-55% for the last few weeks (since I started paying attention) so even if it was humidity, I would have expected them to dry out again by now.  The temperature has dropped a bit, but I've been keeping the boat heated.  The panels are properly aligned with the rubber stripes in the floor.  Any idea what has happened?  I'd rather not shave them down without understanding it.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

 


 







Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bow Thuster Control Box

Ryan Meador
 

Hi,
I just uploaded all the diagrams I have which came with my boat.  I came across a couple that might be of interest to the folks in this thread: electrical diagrams of the bow thruster control circuitry (I'm glad I don't have to reverse engineer one of my own!).  It even has strong suggestions of what is going on in the control box.  The only thing we're missing to fabricate a new control box is what those little squares are on the diagram... I'm guessing capacitors.  You can find these diagrams on pages 3-4 of this document.

Fair winds,

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 7:08 PM, mark_pitt@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi,

  I would like one of these as well.
  Mark Pitt
  Sabbatical III, SM#419



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

Ryan Meador
 

Duane,
I just uploaded all the diagrams I have.  The one showing the cross section of the companionway isn't as detailed as it was in my memory (I could swear I had one from an isometric view), but you can check it out yourself on page 2 of this document.

Fair winds,

Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:28 PM, Patrick Mcaneny sailw32@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,
I taped out the side tracks and applied several coats of varnish to the entire veneer , including edges , I don't think it should fail and it really never gets wet. If I went to the trouble of taking the door out , I think I would replace it with another door or modify the original with a clear panel to allow light in and a view out , I have often thought to do that. If I ever do , I will keep your removal method in mind , I would never remove the dodger to remove the door.
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 
It is certainly possible to do it that way, and I considered it.  But... of necessity, the method leaves areas under the tracks (and the edges of the plywood) unfinished. That makes it impossible to keep water out from under the finish and the edges of the veneer and that makes a shorter lived repair.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

greatketch@...
 

Dan,

For flooded cell batteries like yours the absolute "gold standard" for determining state of charge is to measure specific gravity of the electrolyte. This tells you a lot about the health of the batteries.  Everything else is a poor imitation of that.  It's a lot simpler than a discharge test, but a lot harder than reading a meter!

On my Victron MPPT controller I can set any parameter to any value.  If I was leaving the battery for a long period unloaded and was depending on the solar panels as my sole charging source, I would set the absorption voltage to be the same as the float voltage to hack the system to maintain a steady float voltage level.

On your system, 27.2 volts seems a trival high for float voltage (typically 27.0 for flooded cells at 25C) but very low for absorption voltage (which can be as high as 29.6V at 25C)

You might find this from Deka helpful.  I doubt they distribute it with every battery they sell... 

It is a bit a a slog through, but worth it!

Bill Kinney
Sm160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <dancarlson367@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,  thanks for the response.  I appreciate  the information on the Victron  controller.  It is on my list to take a deeper dive into exactly how it works.  And perhaps when the boat minder came and measured the voltage each month (And took a photo) the 27.2 was reflecting the absorption level, not the subsequent float at a lower temperature adjusted level? 

The batteries are DEKA DC31DT "Marine Master" deep cycle lead acid, with "Low antimony, low maintenance grids."  You have to peel off the battery label to access the flush caps on the top, and there was not an obvious maintenance schedule innthe product information.  

I do understand that the xantrex measures current flow, but it also measures the voltage, which is another indicator of state of charge.  That is why I think tracking amp/hr usage overnight and the morning  voltage before the sun significantly kicks in might give me some reasonable objective data.  At the same time, I recognise that the morning voltage the xantrex shows is from the battery under a load, so it cannot be direct reflection of state of charge.  As for individual battery performance, that seems to require measuring each battery separately with a battery tester, which I only do every couple of months.  

I will also look into the desulphating process as well.

Going back to the MPPT behavior: my first thought would be to see if the controller could be set to only the float level?   If tjat is not possible, then perhaps leaving something that would only use enough current over night to allow the batteries to absorb that initial morning bulk/absorption period befire the battery then goes to float.

Thanks and regards, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM#387, sv BeBe

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

Dan Carlson
 

Hi Bill,  thanks for the response.  I appreciate  the information on the Victron  controller.  It is on my list to take a deeper dive into exactly how it works.  And perhaps when the boat minder came and measured the voltage each month (And took a photo) the 27.2 was reflecting the absorption level, not the subsequent float at a lower temperature adjusted level? 

The batteries are DEKA DC31DT "Marine Master" deep cycle lead acid, with "Low antimony, low maintenance grids."  You have to peel off the battery label to access the flush caps on the top, and there was not an obvious maintenance schedule innthe product information.  

I do understand that the xantrex measures current flow, but it also measures the voltage, which is another indicator of state of charge.  That is why I think tracking amp/hr usage overnight and the morning  voltage before the sun significantly kicks in might give me some reasonable objective data.  At the same time, I recognise that the morning voltage the xantrex shows is from the battery under a load, so it cannot be direct reflection of state of charge.  As for individual battery performance, that seems to require measuring each battery separately with a battery tester, which I only do every couple of months.  

I will also look into the desulphating process as well.

Going back to the MPPT behavior: my first thought would be to see if the controller could be set to only the float level?   If tjat is not possible, then perhaps leaving something that would only use enough current over night to allow the batteries to absorb that initial morning bulk/absorption period befire the battery then goes to float.

Thanks and regards, Dan and Lori Carlson, SM#387, sv BeBe

 


On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 12:39 PM, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

Dan,


Your Victron MPPT controller should automatically adjust the charge and float voltage for a changing ambient temperature, or at least mine does. It reduces the voltage by 0.0325V for every degree C increase in temperature above 25C.  That's not an adjustable number on my controller, but is pretty close to most manufacturers recommendations. 

My Victron MPPT controller would not be well suited to floating a totally unloaded battery for long periods.  Every morning it would switch to the higher voltage bulk and then then absorption charge for an hour.  If the battery had no overnight loads, over 6 months, this might explain why your batteries lost water.

I am not sure what kind of batteries you have but your recommendation about needing to add water to sealed batteries needs to be VERY narrowly applied.  If you open up an AGM, gel, or any other kind of valve regulated battery it will be ruined.

Be careful about interpreting the charge level from a meter like the Xantrex.  It is not really measuring the batteries state of charge.  It is only measuring the amount of power used, and dividing by what you told it the battery capacity is. By way of example, if you tell it you have a 400Amp-hr battery bank, and you pull 100 Amps out, it will say the batteries are 75% charged.  If the batteries have lost 50% of their capacity and are now 200Amp-hour and are REALLY at 50%, the Xantrex still will tell you they are 75% charged.  In short, the "Charge Level" from the Xantrex is telling you nothing at all about the current capacity of your batteries.  

"Sealed" batteries you generally can not equalized.  Since you have already opened yours up, I would investigate an equalizing (or "desulphating") charge, if your charger can do it.  This is especially true if you are seeing differences in performance of the batteries across the bank.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Hi All,   I am still processing all of my learnings from our 1st hurricane season on the hard in Trinidad with BeBe, but I will add my specific experience with batteries as it is appropriate to this thread. 

Twelve new DECA group 31 105 amp/hr, 650CCA, "Sealed" lead acid marine batteries were installed on VBeBe in December 2016 (so only 6 months old when we hauled).  
- I checked all the batteries at the time of haul out and all checked out "ok" with full charge and over 600CCA on my battery tester. 
- The batteries were floated at 27.2v all summer, during the day, with solar panels (Victron Energy Blue Solar MPPT) - the boat minder sent photos each month of the charge level on the xantrex. 
- On return at the end of November the tester showed full charge level, but CCA's measured were in the high 400's to low 500's. Significantly worse then how I had left them.  Seven were flagged as "failing".  
- I peeled back the seals over the caps and checked the cells and the water levels were just millimeters above the plates (several cells had the very top of the plates exposed.)   I refilled the cells with distilled water to the proper fill level.  This consumed nearly 4 gallons of water for 12 batteries!! 
- Since then I have charged each morning and evening with the 100amp charger to 100%, with the solar being close to maintaining charge during the day. 
- With two refrigerators and  one freezer running, plus a few lights, sometimes a fan we will use approx 50 - 60 amp hours from 9pm until 7am.    The Xantrex shows that as approx 92% remaining charge.  The voltage (with about 4-5 amp/hr load will be at about 24.8-24.9volts at 7am.  (not sure how that compares to actually charge remaining, as it is not a 'resting' voltage measurement. 
- After two weeks of this cycling of the batteries I retested all of the "bad" batteries and the CCA had increased by more that 50, so that all are now near or above 550CCA.   

Those are the facts, here are some of my thoughts: 
1)  At first I thought that I had totally toasted my nearly new battery bank (very  depressing start to season!), but I have been very relieved with the recovery.  I'm not sure how to estimate the damage that has been done. 
2) Hindsight and research seems to confirm that 27.2 volts is to high a float voltage for the hot tropics.  There are some calculations that can be done and then I need to research how I can adjust my MPPT controller for the next summer.   Other's experience?  Float levels used in tropics for long term storage?
 I realized that although I was monitoring my batteries with the Xantrex every day (morning & evening) I was not writing anything down, and in fact I have not seen much discussion about what are the critical parameters to monitor and record to have objective data on performance.   I am now trying to record the morning levels (before sun hits the panels).  I record from the Xantrex, the voltage, the accumulated CCA (I've ended each day so far with a charge of 98-100%.  I hope that this will allow me to more accurately track the performance.   Would like to hear what others record and see any factual sharing/comparing of performance.  What guidelines do you use for sulfanation decisions, etc. 
3) Sealed, maintenance free lead acid batteries are a miss-nomer.  Watch the water level in them as well.  

I am sure that there is much more to learn in this area.  I will also share learnings in other areas (moisture  control, pest control, checklists, when I have time to process them)

Regards,  Dan &  Lori Carlson,  SM#387,  sv BeBe 




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

I shoud write ASCO Red Hat.

VLADIMIR
SM 345

On Dec 13, 2017 17:59, "Vladimir Sonsev" <sonsev52@...> wrote:
US company  RedHead makes good solenoid valves for this application. I was using one with manual override. That is good feature for very bad situation.

Vladimir
SM 346 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Dec 12, 2017 12:42, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?
Regards, Alex
AMEL54#15, NO STRESS


On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:


 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@...m [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

US company  RedHead makes good solenoid valves for this application. I was using one with manual override. That is good feature for very bad situation.

Vladimir
SM 346 "LIFE IS GOOD"

On Dec 12, 2017 12:42, "Alex Ramseyer alexramseyer@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?
Regards, Alex
AMEL54#15, NO STRESS


On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

eric freedman
 

Pat,

Do you have 24 volts at the solenoid when the gas switch is turned on?

If not you could have a bad circuit breaker or a bad switch on the electrical panel.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 8:44 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Eric , My switch does not light up , no gas . Is that necessarily the solenoid , could it be the power source ? I had damage to electrical equipment and I believe the electrical source is from a small , square , I am guessing transformer located in the compartment above the galley. I believe 24v feeds it , but don't get a reading coming out. Can anyone confirm that this is the power source, Should the switch lite up even with a bad solenoid , or does that indicate a bad switch ?

Thanks,

Pat SM#123

-----Original Message-----
From: 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Tue, Dec 12, 2017 7:30 pm
Subject: RE: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

Alex,

I changed my solenoid to a USA made solenoid.

It is very easy to get and the pipes fit up to it quite nicely.

I  think you are a few boats away from Kimberlite on the Ponton.

.Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 11:42 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Eric, I have two gas tanks in the compartment on the portside. Both are connected to that switch. One tank has European connection and uses buthan (available here in Martinique), the other has a U.S. connection and uses propane. Why are you asking? Is there anything important that I don't konw/should consider?

Regards, Alex

AMEL54#15, NO STRESS

 

 

On Saturday, December 9, 2017, 5:45:53 PM GMT-4, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Alex,

Are you using propane or butane?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2017 12:45 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] electric gas switch

 

 

Dear Amelians,

I know there has been a discussion about the electric gas switch that seats out there in the compartment with the gas tanks. I rememer you talked about a German manufacturer and how hard it is to get it....

Unfortunatellly, I can't find that conversation anymore. Any information in regards to the vendor and the model AMEL is using (2005 AMEL54) is highly appreciated.

Best Regards,

Alex

SY NO STRESS

AMEL54#15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

Patrick McAneny
 

Bill,
I taped out the side tracks and applied several coats of varnish to the entire veneer , including edges , I don't think it should fail and it really never gets wet. If I went to the trouble of taking the door out , I think I would replace it with another door or modify the original with a clear panel to allow light in and a view out , I have often thought to do that. If I ever do , I will keep your removal method in mind , I would never remove the dodger to remove the door.
Pat SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Dec 13, 2017 11:48 am
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

 
It is certainly possible to do it that way, and I considered it.  But... of necessity, the method leaves areas under the tracks (and the edges of the plywood) unfinished. That makes it impossible to keep water out from under the finish and the edges of the veneer and that makes a shorter lived repair.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Companionway Removal, another method.

greatketch@...
 

It is certainly possible to do it that way, and I considered it.  But... of necessity, the method leaves areas under the tracks (and the edges of the plywood) unfinished. That makes it impossible to keep water out from under the finish and the edges of the veneer and that makes a shorter lived repair.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL




---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailw32@...> wrote :

If all you want to do is re veneer the companionway door , it is possible to do without going to the trouble of removing the door. I just did mine this summer . Remove the weatherstripping , cut the veneer slightly oversize so that it is covered by the side tracks by a 1/16 or a little more, of course remove the lock , trial fit it , if pleased with fit , apply contact cement start on one side and the top , slowly bring it in contact say from left to right , working it along pressing bubbles out when close to right side bow it up slightly and under the side rail. It took me about an hour or two and looks new. One other thing I did years ago was to raise the door all the way up and cut a couple of inches off the bottom of the door. This allowed the door to store away an inch or so lower , it made it easier to step over.
Pat #SM123



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Batteries

greatketch@...
 

Dan,

Your Victron MPPT controller should automatically adjust the charge and float voltage for a changing ambient temperature, or at least mine does. It reduces the voltage by 0.0325V for every degree C increase in temperature above 25C.  That's not an adjustable number on my controller, but is pretty close to most manufacturers recommendations. 

My Victron MPPT controller would not be well suited to floating a totally unloaded battery for long periods.  Every morning it would switch to the higher voltage bulk and then then absorption charge for an hour.  If the battery had no overnight loads, over 6 months, this might explain why your batteries lost water.

I am not sure what kind of batteries you have but your recommendation about needing to add water to sealed batteries needs to be VERY narrowly applied.  If you open up an AGM, gel, or any other kind of valve regulated battery it will be ruined.

Be careful about interpreting the charge level from a meter like the Xantrex.  It is not really measuring the batteries state of charge.  It is only measuring the amount of power used, and dividing by what you told it the battery capacity is. By way of example, if you tell it you have a 400Amp-hr battery bank, and you pull 100 Amps out, it will say the batteries are 75% charged.  If the batteries have lost 50% of their capacity and are now 200Amp-hour and are REALLY at 50%, the Xantrex still will tell you they are 75% charged.  In short, the "Charge Level" from the Xantrex is telling you nothing at all about the current capacity of your batteries.  

"Sealed" batteries you generally can not equalized.  Since you have already opened yours up, I would investigate an equalizing (or "desulphating") charge, if your charger can do it.  This is especially true if you are seeing differences in performance of the batteries across the bank.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL


---In amelyachtowners@..., <dancarlson367@...> wrote :

Hi All,   I am still processing all of my learnings from our 1st hurricane season on the hard in Trinidad with BeBe, but I will add my specific experience with batteries as it is appropriate to this thread. 

Twelve new DECA group 31 105 amp/hr, 650CCA, "Sealed" lead acid marine batteries were installed on VBeBe in December 2016 (so only 6 months old when we hauled).  
- I checked all the batteries at the time of haul out and all checked out "ok" with full charge and over 600CCA on my battery tester. 
- The batteries were floated at 27.2v all summer, during the day, with solar panels (Victron Energy Blue Solar MPPT) - the boat minder sent photos each month of the charge level on the xantrex. 
- On return at the end of November the tester showed full charge level, but CCA's measured were in the high 400's to low 500's. Significantly worse then how I had left them.  Seven were flagged as "failing".  
- I peeled back the seals over the caps and checked the cells and the water levels were just millimeters above the plates (several cells had the very top of the plates exposed.)   I refilled the cells with distilled water to the proper fill level.  This consumed nearly 4 gallons of water for 12 batteries!! 
- Since then I have charged each morning and evening with the 100amp charger to 100%, with the solar being close to maintaining charge during the day. 
- With two refrigerators and  one freezer running, plus a few lights, sometimes a fan we will use approx 50 - 60 amp hours from 9pm until 7am.    The Xantrex shows that as approx 92% remaining charge.  The voltage (with about 4-5 amp/hr load will be at about 24.8-24.9volts at 7am.  (not sure how that compares to actually charge remaining, as it is not a 'resting' voltage measurement. 
- After two weeks of this cycling of the batteries I retested all of the "bad" batteries and the CCA had increased by more that 50, so that all are now near or above 550CCA.   

Those are the facts, here are some of my thoughts: 
1)  At first I thought that I had totally toasted my nearly new battery bank (very  depressing start to season!), but I have been very relieved with the recovery.  I'm not sure how to estimate the damage that has been done. 
2) Hindsight and research seems to confirm that 27.2 volts is to high a float voltage for the hot tropics.  There are some calculations that can be done and then I need to research how I can adjust my MPPT controller for the next summer.   Other's experience?  Float levels used in tropics for long term storage?
 I realized that although I was monitoring my batteries with the Xantrex every day (morning & evening) I was not writing anything down, and in fact I have not seen much discussion about what are the critical parameters to monitor and record to have objective data on performance.   I am now trying to record the morning levels (before sun hits the panels).  I record from the Xantrex, the voltage, the accumulated CCA (I've ended each day so far with a charge of 98-100%.  I hope that this will allow me to more accurately track the performance.   Would like to hear what others record and see any factual sharing/comparing of performance.  What guidelines do you use for sulfanation decisions, etc. 
3) Sealed, maintenance free lead acid batteries are a miss-nomer.  Watch the water level in them as well.  

I am sure that there is much more to learn in this area.  I will also share learnings in other areas (moisture  control, pest control, checklists, when I have time to process them)

Regards,  Dan &  Lori Carlson,  SM#387,  sv BeBe