Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Interesting as, just looking at the size of the starters, I would “guess” the engine would require more amp than the generator to start…
If the engine starts, could it be poor/degraded electrical connection to the generator?
Would be interesting to measure voltage, etc.

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Fri, 10/27/17, mfmcgovern@yahoo.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: ONAN Generator not starting
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 27, 2017, 6:57 AM


 









Yes it's possible for the starting battery to
start the engine but not the generator. When I bought our
SM the starting battery was almost dead. The engine would
start fine but the generator would not start at all. We had
to start the engine first in order the start the generator
until we changed out the battery.



Mark

SM #440 Cara

Deale, MD USA


Re: ONAN Generator not starting

mfmcgovern@...
 

Yes it's possible for the starting battery to start the engine but not the generator. When I bought our SM the starting battery was almost dead. The engine would start fine but the generator would not start at all. We had to start the engine first in order the start the generator until we changed out the battery.

Mark
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: how do I use the oven?

Ian Park
 

Ryan
My Santorin was fitted with the Eno Gascoigne, which was a two burner version (1994). It was a very solidly built stove, but Eno France) had no spares at all for it. We replaced with a new Eno. The quality of this one is nowhere near as good. Within a year of beginning our cruising life I had a list of replacements which Eno did replace at no charge. Eno now own Force Ten cookers.
My original Eno ended up in a friends boat and he did manage to locate parts that did fit, but not from Eno.
If you are going to replace I suggest you spend a bit more than you would on an Eno. The cooker does as much work as the engine!!
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: ONAN Generator not starting

greatketch@...
 

Is it likely (or even possible?) that the battery could start the main engine but NOT the generator?

Is the generator starting system more sensitive to low voltage for some reason?


Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Alan Leslie
 

It could be the relay in the negative battery feed to the starter. This has been a not uncommon problem.Like your main engine, the ONAN electrics are isolated from ground. When you press the start button that should activate not only the starter solenoid but also the relay in the negative feed. The negative relay is located on the port side of the ONAN, if you lean over the ONAN and look down, about half way along,with a torch, you'll see it.
I had this problem and it was loose connections at the relay.
Good luck
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Try starting with main engine idling at 1800...if the generator starts, bad starting battery. 

Always try to eliminate the most likely and easiest cause.

I haven't read the entire thread. Let me know if this works. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Oct 26, 2017 14:06, "derickgates@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Alex,


It sounds like you are not getting power to the starter.  Because the generator is "isolated", the first thing the generator switch does is activate a solenoid that allows current to flow to the negative pole on your starter  battery.  If that solenoid is sticking, you will not complete the circuit to energize the starter. Besides the solenoid itself, check for loose/corroded connections in the starter motor circuit.

Another possibility is that your starter motor may have failed. Is it getting voltage when you try to start the generator? 

Finally, several of the generator sensors will stop the generator (high exhaust temp, high oil pressure, lack of cooling water flow, etc).  These would normally give you an error code to help you diagnose the problem, and although it is unlikely that the error code lights on both the galley switch and the generator switch may hav e failed, it is possible.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400


Re: The Times They are a Changin' - Message from Bill Rouse

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Bill and Judy,

Thanks for all the direct and indirect tutalage over the years.  I first started enjoying Judy's blogging about your adventures on BeBe, and then found Bill's posts on the Amel Yacht Owners group on Yahoo.  I was very happy to finally meet you both and have dinner with you in the Iles des Saintes, Guadeloupe. 

I guess I will have to now"grow up" and learn to fix things by myself!

Best wishes in future endeavors,

Derick Gates
SM2K #400 Brava
Currently on the hard in Antigua for hurricane season


Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Hi Alex,

It sounds like you are not getting power to the starter.  Because the generator is "isolated", the first thing the generator switch does is activate a solenoid that allows current to flow to the negative pole on your starter  battery.  If that solenoid is sticking, you will not complete the circuit to energize the starter. Besides the solenoid itself, check for loose/corroded connections in the starter motor circuit.

Another possibility is that your starter motor may have failed. Is it getting voltage when you try to start the generator? 

Finally, several of the generator sensors will stop the generator (high exhaust temp, high oil pressure, lack of cooling water flow, etc).  These would normally give you an error code to help you diagnose the problem, and although it is unlikely that the error code lights on both the galley switch and the generator switch may have failed, it is possible.

Derick Gates
SM2K #400


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi,

There is nothing wrong with filing a oversize brush to fit.Just do it carefully to maintain symmetry

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 27 October 2017 at 01:54 "Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello Miles,

thanks for the mail. Replacing these brushes has become a bit of a nightmare. Maybe I should have gone first to Amel, but you would think that such a mundane item would be available locally or on the Internet.

The fact is that they are not. No one on eBay seems to make brushes with 8mm x 10mm sides whatever the length.

I contacted Transdrive in the UK who are Leroy Somers agents. They told me that my MBT 86M motor is no longer in production. Where does that leave us should we require a replacement?

The factory in France can sell a set of 6 brushes for this motor at £76.20 (maybe ex VAT) PLUS a £65 charge for a small order! Furthermore they will not ship to a fellow EU country (Cyprus), so the order will have to go via Transdrive who will charge a further £50 to ship 6 small brushes in a jiffy bag to Cyprus!! What disgusting after sales service by Leroy Somers and their UK agent.

It is very tempting to buy an off the shelf brush set which is too large and file them down to fit. I did this with my autopilot ram motor several years ago for a total cost of £6 against the Autohelm charge of £90 plus shipping. The brushes have worked perfectly.

Have a good trip to Martinique.

Ian SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus


On 26/10/2017 01:54, 'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

The only way to get the correct brushes is to look at the numbers on the motor and contact Leroy Somers or Amel.  The motors are not necessarily the same and Amel used a number of motors that had very different brushes.

MilesB

Ladybug S/y ladybug sm216, In Newport getting ready to leave for Martinique


 


 


Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

I'm familiar with the error codes as described in the manual, but no - I get no error code. It's just not reacting at all after I push the start button in the galley or at the genset.


Re: ONAN Generator not starting

Derick Gates SM2K #400 Brava
 

Hi Alex,

Are you getting an error code on the generator after you attempt to start it?  The light will blink several times.  Note the number of blinks and the pattern of blinks.  Then look up the corresponding error code in the manual.

Derick Gates
SM2k #400


ONAN Generator not starting

Alex Ramseyer <alexramseyer@...>
 

Hi all,
my ONAN generator was running fine until yesterday. This morning, when I tried to start the genset it primed, then cranked only shortly, then stopped cranking. At the second attempt it was just priming, not cranking at all. Third attempt not even priming. Reading the troubleshooting page of my manual, I didn't find my exact situation.
Appreciate your advice, best practices and ideas!
Regards, Alex
SY NO STRESS
AMEL54 #15


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: how do I use the oven?

Ryan Meador
 

Hi Alan,
The stove I have is a two-burner model, and my Googling indicates the Bretagne is a three-burner model, so maybe that's not it?  My boat was built in 1998.  The original owner told me he opted for the two-burner stove so that it would always be balanced on the gimbal, even with only 1 pot, so maybe this stove isn't common.  Also my IR thermometer measured 465°F (240°C) just after my meat thermometer probe exploded, so apparently I have no trouble exceeding 200.

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA

On Thu, Oct 26, 2017 at 3:24 AM, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Ryan,


Your stove is probably an ENO Bretagne, for which there are few parts available now.
The Oven knob does control the flame, you're right, but our biggest problem is being able to get the oven hot enough. That maybe because we use propane in our part of the world and the stove is designed to use butane.
We use a standard dial oven thermometer to get an idea of the oven temperature, but it struggles to get to 200C.
I have a manual for the stove but its in French...and not a good scan..I can send it to you if you want.
Cheers
alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main furler motor issue

Sv Garulfo
 


An update:
No parts or diagrams from the yard or its supplier (Leroy Somer) so far. Amel do recommend changing the top seal to avoid water intrusion but so far we haven't found a description on how to do that, except that it is possible to do without removing the end caps, which are "glued and near impossible to remove without damaging the casing" as per Amel. 

Anyway, we gave up trying to remove the top end cap. 

At the bottom end of the block there is an electromagnetic shaft break, controlled by a separate solenoid. When not energised, a spring mounted ferrous metal disc presses on a plastic disc fixed to the shaft. When energised, the magnet pulls the metal disc away and frees the shaft. There is a distinctive click noise when that happens. I think this is the first point of failure when corrosion strikes, as the corroded springs between the magnet and the ferrous disc seem to lose flex. 
In the event of failure of the overall system, absence of that mechanical click coming from inside the casing maybe a tell tale. 

We researched the part (ERD 500 from Warner Electric) and its maintenance and the constructor suggests the gap may need to be adjusted later in life to allow operation.
This part is easy to remove, 3 Allen screws. 1 of ours was corroded in and broke, though. I think those screws also control the amount of default pressure on the plastic disc, so it maybe useful to make a note of their position before removing them. 

Next is the motor itself. 4 screws to remove 2 top plates, circlip, gear, wedge (?, clavette in french) and then 2 nuts that screw onto bolts the length of the motor to maintain the brushes element wedged in place onto the collector/commutator. Brushes are indeed spring loaded and a pain to put back. 

Around the rotor, there is a metallic tube with the permanent stator magnets glued on the inside. On ours half of the magnets were unglued and all over the place. Hence the motor failure. Did they become unstuck because the failed shaft break prevented rotation and the rotor magnetic field snapped the permanent magnets off? Or is it just direct failure? I don't know. 
So we epoxy-glued them back, cleaned all the dust away, remounted everything but the break, tested on a pair of car batteries and it rotated happily. The break wouldn't snap, though, so had to change the springs, adjust the gap, and remount it with the right amount of pressure to let it do its job. 
We intend to change the break part altogether for a new one, as a better solution. We also intend to carry a spare complete system bought from Amel for peace of mind, when we can source/afford it ($3k?).

We knew next to nothing about DC motors when we started, so we would be very happy to hear comments about what we found/did. For instance I don't understand why the break is controlled by a different relay/solenoid. They seem to be on at the same time/voltage. 
We got help of a local guy in Morocco. He was fantastically helpful if not 100% orthodox in his methods. 

We'll try to annotate pictures and make a document in the files section. We'll carry on researching the changing of the top seal. Stay tuned.

Fair winds,

Thomas
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Porto Santo, Madeira, Portugal 





On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 at 16:03, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;
 
I did not attempt to open our furler motor due to the poor condition observed and the amount of water that came out of it. We sent it to a mechanic familiar with Amels and the furler motor. They did open it and after review said that the motor was basically not repairable. So, I cannot be of much help in how to open up the unit. But as with everything else, you start from the obvious and move forward and try to figure out as you go.
 
One suggestion may be to request any diagrams or maintenance information Amel may have. If they don't, they can tell you the manufacturer's information and most likely more information can be found online or directly from the manufacturer.
 
I would definitely be interested in your progress and any pictures that may help us and other 54 owners. The beginning of the next season is going to be the 2 year mark for our furler as well and I will be changing the top seal.
 
Respectfully;
 
Mohammad & Aty
B&B Kokomo
Amel 54 #099
 


From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, October 16, 2017 11:46 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main furler motor issue

 

Hi Mohammad,

Thanks for your answer

I realise, searching for pictures online, that the 54 has a different electrical furling system than Super Maramu. It is vertical. I guess that reduces the expertise on those systems. Hopefully we can contribute to building it without too much damage.

Any tips still very much appreciated

Fair winds to all

Thanks
Thomas 
Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 


On Tue, 17 Oct 2017 at 03:10, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Thomas;

The seal is between the shaft and the end cap.  You can see it in your picture. This seal is constantly exposed to the sun and the elements. When the rubber dries out, water gets in. The 54s have similar issues with the top seal on the Bamar furlers.

Has any one used a good rubber conditioner/protector that extends its life? 


Respectfully;


Mohammad Shirloo
323-633-2222 Cell
310-454-3148 Fax


On Oct 16, 2017, at 11:24 AM, SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 



Ok, 

So the gearbox is fine, we can operate the manual furling without problems. 

We removed the unit and disconnected it as per Mohammad's instructions. 

We managed to remove (pop out) the bottom black end cap (wire end). It was not easy to say the least. For the top end, we are still very much struggling with it. We must be doing it the wrong way. We found those black end caps to be sealed with what looks like white sikaflex, between the white painted aluminium case and a groove in the black end cap. 
The inside of the housing was damp, with a few drops od salt water running out and a fair amount of salt cristals. 
The "wire end" of the motor stack has the 'brake', an electromagnetic friction disk that I suppose is there to block the rotation while not energised (correct me if I'm wrong). It was a bit rusty. 

There is a gear on that end of the shaft that connects to the brake element. That gear would not rotate freely, until I shaked it a bit and it freed up. Maybe a clue as to what's going on inside. 

Next is the motor itself and the wires going into it that I guess would be connected to the brushes. 

But to access the full motor block, i think we need to remove the top back end cap too and free the motor from the housing. The top black end cap is still resisting our efforts. I don't suppose there is another solution to access the brushes or to remove that end cap?

Mohammad, 
What is the seal that Amel recommend changing every couple of years? Is it between the end cap and the aluminium housing? Or the  bit between the shaft and the black end cap? On our motor it's very rusty (see picture in previous post) and I wouldn't be surprised it's the source of our damp problem. Does Amel provide you with an how-to to change it? I would be interested in any tips at this point. 

Thanks again,

Thomas
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 


On Mon, 16 Oct 2017 at 11:17, Garulfo sv <svgarulfo@...> wrote:
Peter,
"Unscrew conventional way", You mean like a jar (black against white) or pop it out once the screws on the white covers are off?
Thanks
image1.JPG


On 16 Oct 2017, at 10:39, Peter Forbes ppsforbes@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

The black end caps unscrew the conventional way.


Peter
Peter Forbes
Carango
Amel. 54#035

Sent from my iPhone

On 16 Oct 2017, at 10:26, Garulfo sv svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello
Thanks all for your input. 
We are onto removing the furler motor. 
Before we disconnect the electrics, any tips on how to remove the black end caps. 

Thank you
 
Fair winds

Thomas 
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 

On 15 Oct 2017, at 09:36, simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Thomas, I agree with those who suggest checking the brushes. In my experience they are this number one culprit. You have checked the breakers. I have found if I try to furl under too much load the breaker in the port forward locker in the forward cabin pops.
The brushes can stick because of accumulated carbon dust from wear. Remove them and give the motor a blow out with an air gun if available. The contact surface can get  very glossy and when they are out I give that area a quick rub with sand paper.
Regards
Danny SM 299 Ocean Pearl

Sent from my Vodafone Smart

On 15 Oct 2017 20:42, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all,

The main furler motor stopped working yesterday. We wanted to unfurl the dail and it wouldn't go. The outhaul is ok. 
Battery levels are fine (and the engine alternator was still running and producing amps at the time).
The command produces a click sound in what I think is the solenoid. 
The circuit breaker marked "mast" in the forward cabin above the centre bookshelf /wardrobe is on (as are the other breakers there for "boom", etc).

Any further advice before I tinker any further? I would check the motor itself but having never done it, I'd rather be cautious with little local help at hand. 

Thanks 

Fair winds

Thomas 
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Tangier, Morocco 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Ian Shepherd
 

Hello Miles,

thanks for the mail. Replacing these brushes has become a bit of a nightmare. Maybe I should have gone first to Amel, but you would think that such a mundane item would be available locally or on the Internet.

The fact is that they are not. No one on eBay seems to make brushes with 8mm x 10mm sides whatever the length.

I contacted Transdrive in the UK who are Leroy Somers agents. They told me that my MBT 86M motor is no longer in production. Where does that leave us should we require a replacement?

The factory in France can sell a set of 6 brushes for this motor at 76.20 (maybe ex VAT) PLUS a 65 charge for a small order! Furthermore they will not ship to a fellow EU country (Cyprus), so the order will have to go via Transdrive who will charge a further 50 to ship 6 small brushes in a jiffy bag to Cyprus!! What disgusting after sales service by Leroy Somers and their UK agent.

It is very tempting to buy an off the shelf brush set which is too large and file them down to fit. I did this with my autopilot ram motor several years ago for a total cost of 6 against the Autohelm charge of 90 plus shipping. The brushes have worked perfectly.

Have a good trip to Martinique.

Ian SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Larnaca Cyprus


On 26/10/2017 01:54, 'Miles Bidwell' milesbid@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:

The only way to get the correct brushes is to look at the numbers on the motor and contact Leroy Somers or Amel. The motors are not necessarily the same and Amel used a number of motors that had very different brushes.

MilesB

Ladybug S/y ladybug sm216, In Newport getting ready to leave for Martinique



Re: how do I use the oven?

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Ryan,

Your stove is probably an ENO Bretagne, for which there are few parts available now.
The Oven knob does control the flame, you're right, but our biggest problem is being able to get the oven hot enough. That maybe because we use propane in our part of the world and the stove is designed to use butane.
We use a standard dial oven thermometer to get an idea of the oven temperature, but it struggles to get to 200C.
I have a manual for the stove but its in French...and not a good scan..I can send it to you if you want.
Cheers
alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] The Times They are a Changin' - Message from Bill Rouse

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Bill and Judy,

We would like to join others in wishing you all the best for the future. 
I first came across Judy's writings almost ten years ago when I was researching blogs about Amel boats in the wild, and it was a great way to keep the dream alive. 

Then we got to read the content produced by the group over the years to learn a bit more about the often hidden side of cruising, away from the postcards; maintenance and troubleshooting. That definitely cemented our belief that Amel were the right choice. All along, Bill's contributions were noted for their clarity, thoroughness, honesty and strong mindedness. 
Finally Bill was very helpful with the search and purchase of our own Amel almost 2 years ago, giving us good contacts and advice about the process. 

Huge thanks to you both for your work over the years, it's been truly inspiring. We do hope you will find the same enjoyment (and more!) in your new endeavour. We also hope that we can participate in building on your legacy and carry on making this group a great resource for all current and future Amel owners. 

Best wishes,

Thomas & Soraya
Garulfo 
Amel 54 #122
Porto Santo, Madeira, Portugal


On Wed, 18 Oct 2017 at 19:12, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

All Amel Owners and Friends,

I have participated in this forum and with this wonderful group of people for 12 years. It has been fulfilling, educational, and occasionally entertaining.

As many of you know, we sold BeBe to great new owners, Dan & Lori Carlson, earlier this year. Many of you asked me to continue as part of this group and I have tried to participate when I feel as though I have something to contribute. You may have noticed a recent lack of participation.

And, as some of you know, several months ago I started Amel School which gives me the opportunity to train owners that are new-to-Amel. I also help those who want to buy an Amel to choose the best Amel for their budget (Pre-Purchase Consulting). I had my 400 page Amel Book printed and bound for my Amel School clients and I provide 24/7 Support to them. I am proud to say that in a few months I have clients throughout the world and just added my 20th client. Most are members of this Group.

This brings me to what I need to post today. I am going to almost totally remove myself from the Amel Yacht Owners Forum. I need to do this to be able to serve my clients properly. I do hope that you understand this. In the past few months I have been asked by a number of you about my Amel Book and other Amel School related services. I have a parting offer for members of this Yahoo Amel Yacht Owners Group who have owned their Amels for 2 years or longer. If you are interested please follow this link to a hidden page on my website: Amel Yacht Owners Group.

Hopefully we will meet (again) somewhere on the water while I am with one of my Amel School Clients. 

Best,


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

eric freedman
 


Re: SM Furling Motor Brush Dimensions

Miles
 

The only way to get the correct brushes is to look at the numbers on the motor and contact Leroy Somers or Amel.  The motors are not necessarily the same and Amel used a number of motors that had very different brushes.

MilesB

Ladybug S/y ladybug sm216, In Newport getting ready to leave for Martinique


how do I use the oven?

Ryan Meador
 

Hi all,
I just tried to use my oven for the first time, and I can't figure it out.  There doesn't seem to be a way to control the temperature; I seem to only be able to control the flame.  Even on low, the temperature still climes (I blew up my thermometer testing this).  There are no markings on the stove unit which would lead me to a manufacturer or a manual, and I wasn't able to find anything in the archives of this group.  I believe it is the standard Super Maramu stove.  The only label on it is at the bottom and gives instructions for lighting the burners.  What am I doing wrong?  How is this meant to be used?

Thanks,
Ryan
SM 233 Iteration
Boston, MA, USA