Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Patrick McAneny
 

I have had limited sailing on Cats and then not on an ocean . One big con is the additional cleaning which was just mentioned , I have often made that comment to my wife as a reason that I would not own a cat. However as someone that has always loved sailboats and cannot take my eyes off of a beautiful boat , especially if sailing , slightly heeled ... well I will just say , I don't remember ever staring at the lines of a cat , at least not more than a minute. When is the last time you saw a cat depicted in a painting . It may not be the most important reason for choosing a monohull , but it is one reason.
Pat SM #123


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2017 6:33 am
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 
Porter,
 
I will not be trapped into the cat vs mono debate. Both have advantages.
 
You need to make up your own mind about the boat that is fits YOUR needs. Only YOU can do this. You do not mention where you plan to sail. This alone should seriously sway you. If you plan to spend a lot of time on the oceans of the world then, buy a boat suited for that. It you plan to island hop the Caribbean then, buy a boat suited for that. If you plan to do coastal cruising, then buy a boat suited for that.
 
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff
SM2K #275 - Currently cruising: Ft Lauderdale, FL
 
 
 
From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
 
 
Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.
 
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  
 
Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
 
Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!
You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  
If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  
You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 
 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?
I was pretty certain i was until the above response.
 
 
Could you lend me your thoughts?
 
Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  
Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  
 
Its very much appreciated.
 
Thank you again Porter
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Symphony
 

Hi Eric,
Yes, they were in Simpson Bay for three weeks in January, now they are returned to Fort Lauderdale where they bought a lovely home last year. 

They looked for you and Kimberlite in the marina. :-)

Best wishes,
Richard

On Jan 25, 2017, at 1:57 AM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Richard,

Nice to see you on the site.

I miss seeing your daughter and grandkids in St Maarten.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 6:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

this is my first comment. I don't own an Amel - yet.  I know Eric and his Kimberlite and that was my first inkling that Amel was the boat I might cruise in.  Then i sailed on a new 55' Amel. Nice.

 

So I joined this list while consider selling my Tartan 4100 and buying an Amel.

 

I have crewed three times on 40-45' catamarans.  the benefits and problems of cats have been well-detailed here and elsewhere.  They are fantastic at anchor in the Bahamas.  They are not fantastic sailing in a full gale from Bermuda to Antigua.

 

But one thing that I had not considered until I spent a few good weeks on cats - a 45' cat has the equivalent waterline of a 90' monohull.  think about painting the bottom or scrubbing the water line by yourself and let it sink in to your mind. think about caring for the toe rail, cove stripe, etc.  90' feet is a lot.  90' is not retirement cruising. 

 

there is more than double the deck space on a 45' cat over a 55' monohull.  deck space is nice, but I found the wide cat deck spaces to be a situation of Diminishing Returns; I did not enjoy the boat 200% more, but I did have 250% more deck to clean, wax, maintain, etc.  Same for the wide open space in the salon and the cockpit.  I really could not use the space there, but I had to wipe the floor down often, especially when offshore - slippery and dangerous in a big swell.  it was much more wiping than on my Tartan monohull.  the open floor space did not increase my enjoyment enough to justify increasing my maintenance cleaning effort so much.

 

for maintenance equivalence you might consider comparing a 55' mono to a 25' multihull and then weigh the advantages of safety, comfort, speed, anchoring.  It was enough to put my wife and I off catamarans.   but mostly my wife and I missed the fantastic sounds and sensations that a monohull creates when it is sailing.  pure joy.

 

best wishes to all you cruisers,

Richard

Tartan 4100 in Milford Connecticut.

 


From: "gary@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:10 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

I did tons and tons of research before deciding Cat vs. mono.  My reasoning was bouncing back and for for several months but ultimately came down to a couple of safety considerations and a couple of financial ones.

The safety ones were Amel specific; stainless steel lifelines, water-tight compartments, center cockpit, hull-to-deck fusing and the rigging itself. Couldn't find any brands that were built the same as the Amel in those regards.

 

Financial considerations were resale and docking and fuel.  Resale is pretty much always good on the Amel, but I couldn't find a consistently true pattern on the Cats, except at the very high end.  Docking almost always costs 1.5x to 2x for a Cat because you take up two slips and with the benefit if two engines comes the fuel expense, increased maintenance and shortened range of running them.  

 

The cats are all over the monohulls for spaciousness and an easy-going ride in easy seas. It's true they are generally faster on the runs and faster under motor.  It's also true that (generally) the rigs are taller, the sails are higher off the water, and (as mentioned before) that comfortable rode goes away pretty dramatically in choppy water when one hull strikes a wave differently than the other one.

I guess I also hold the belief that, generically, you cant load a Cat like you can a monohull without the risk overstressing the structure.  That's an un-researched opinion, but I believe it to be true.

 

Of course, I'm going to vote for a monohull because I chose one and I want you to be like me :)  Joking aside; we've done 4 rally crossings and he cats all made it just fine.  It did seem as though they had some bigger 'adventures' than we did though.  It's a tough thing to quantify ... best let a bit of feeling into the equation as well; ... unless you're planning to sail solo; how does your most important crewmember/Admiral feel about it? 

 

Best of luck!  Regardless of how you decide, hope to see you cruising around some day.

 

Gary W

SM 209, Adagio

Fethiye, Turkey

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Mark Erdos
 

Porter,

 

I will not be trapped into the cat vs mono debate. Both have advantages.

 

You need to make up your own mind about the boat that is fits YOUR needs. Only YOU can do this. You do not mention where you plan to sail. This alone should seriously sway you. If you plan to spend a lot of time on the oceans of the world then, buy a boat suited for that. It you plan to island hop the Caribbean then, buy a boat suited for that. If you plan to do coastal cruising, then buy a boat suited for that.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Yacht: Cream Puff

SM2K #275 - Currently cruising: Ft Lauderdale, FL

 

 

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 9:38 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

Let me start by again thanking you for all your help along the way.

 

I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54  and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for a long time now.  

 

Recently a friend and long time sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:

 

Having lived on my own sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!

You get twice the space, 2 engines, they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one again just because of not being able to relax more like you can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are with much more inside and outside space.  

If you have not tried one, I think you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!  

You are about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.  I just don't want you to jump into it without trying all the options available. I have spent years and thousands of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again with the great Catamaran options that are out there. 

 

I am about to pull the trigger, am I making the right choice?

I was pretty certain i was until the above response.

 

 

Could you lend me your thoughts?

 

Were a family of four with plans for an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.  

Am i making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one and goes with it.  

 

Its very much appreciated.

 

Thank you again Porter

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

jjjk12s@...
 

Porter,

 

My brother has two Lagoon 500s that work commercially. Despite what some may say about the brand they are built to take a knocking and are really good boats. They are probably better looking and sailing than many of the other Lagoon boats so will probably remain popular and possibly hold their value well if looked after. I think you can compare them to an Amel 54 in so far as the price range and ability to carry 4 people around the world on the milk run are similar. So I can understand why two apparently completely different boats may end on the same wish list.

 

I think when comparing the Lagoon to most monohull production boats the Lagoon would come out on top. However, as you are comparing with an Amel 54 it is a harder decision. Although the Lagoon is up to the task it is built to a price. The Amel is much better built. The Amel has many safety features if you are possibly going to encounter bad conditions.

 

The Lagoon 500 has advantages: the view from the saloon, the privacy of having cabins in separate hulls, the verandah type cockpit, the great view from the frybridge in calmer areas or fine weather, etc.

Disadvantages include the size on the fully battened mainsail if you have a problem, the engines, like most cats seem to have more problems because they are basically in the aft lockers, the saildrives can be a headache for maintenance etc plus the other cat issues of slamming in head seas, jerky motion in a seaway, and berthage.

 

Either boat would be great to go around the world on but if you chartered for a couple of days It would be very likely the cat would win. On the Amel you would feel more pride of ownership I think, and be much more confident, say, sailing south of Madagascar which is what you have to do if you intend to sail around the world. With the Lagoon you would have more comfortable apartment-on-the-water type amenities, especially at anchor. I personally would easily choose the Amel and I have 2 children, but it depends upon the families priorities. My wife would may prefer the cat until really bad weather in the open ocean, then she would want to fly home from the next port!.

 

Cheers John ,Maramu, Popeye #91

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

eric freedman
 

Richard,

Nice to see you on the site.

I miss seeing your daughter and grandkids in St Maarten.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 6:57 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

this is my first comment. I don't own an Amel - yet.  I know Eric and his Kimberlite and that was my first inkling that Amel was the boat I might cruise in.  Then i sailed on a new 55' Amel. Nice.

 

So I joined this list while consider selling my Tartan 4100 and buying an Amel.

 

I have crewed three times on 40-45' catamarans.  the benefits and problems of cats have been well-detailed here and elsewhere.  They are fantastic at anchor in the Bahamas.  They are not fantastic sailing in a full gale from Bermuda to Antigua.

 

But one thing that I had not considered until I spent a few good weeks on cats - a 45' cat has the equivalent waterline of a 90' monohull.  think about painting the bottom or scrubbing the water line by yourself and let it sink in to your mind. think about caring for the toe rail, cove stripe, etc.  90' feet is a lot.  90' is not retirement cruising. 

 

there is more than double the deck space on a 45' cat over a 55' monohull.  deck space is nice, but I found the wide cat deck spaces to be a situation of Diminishing Returns; I did not enjoy the boat 200% more, but I did have 250% more deck to clean, wax, maintain, etc.  Same for the wide open space in the salon and the cockpit.  I really could not use the space there, but I had to wipe the floor down often, especially when offshore - slippery and dangerous in a big swell.  it was much more wiping than on my Tartan monohull.  the open floor space did not increase my enjoyment enough to justify increasing my maintenance cleaning effort so much.

 

for maintenance equivalence you might consider comparing a 55' mono to a 25' multihull and then weigh the advantages of safety, comfort, speed, anchoring.  It was enough to put my wife and I off catamarans.   but mostly my wife and I missed the fantastic sounds and sensations that a monohull creates when it is sailing.  pure joy.

 

best wishes to all you cruisers,

Richard

Tartan 4100 in Milford Connecticut.

 


From: "gary@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:10 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 

 

I did tons and tons of research before deciding Cat vs. mono.  My reasoning was bouncing back and for for several months but ultimately came down to a couple of safety considerations and a couple of financial ones.

The safety ones were Amel specific; stainless steel lifelines, water-tight compartments, center cockpit, hull-to-deck fusing and the rigging itself. Couldn't find any brands that were built the same as the Amel in those regards.

 

Financial considerations were resale and docking and fuel.  Resale is pretty much always good on the Amel, but I couldn't find a consistently true pattern on the Cats, except at the very high end.  Docking almost always costs 1.5x to 2x for a Cat because you take up two slips and with the benefit if two engines comes the fuel expense, increased maintenance and shortened range of running them.  

 

The cats are all over the monohulls for spaciousness and an easy-going ride in easy seas. It's true they are generally faster on the runs and faster under motor.  It's also true that (generally) the rigs are taller, the sails are higher off the water, and (as mentioned before) that comfortable rode goes away pretty dramatically in choppy water when one hull strikes a wave differently than the other one.

I guess I also hold the belief that, generically, you cant load a Cat like you can a monohull without the risk overstressing the structure.  That's an un-researched opinion, but I believe it to be true.

 

Of course, I'm going to vote for a monohull because I chose one and I want you to be like me :)  Joking aside; we've done 4 rally crossings and he cats all made it just fine.  It did seem as though they had some bigger 'adventures' than we did though.  It's a tough thing to quantify ... best let a bit of feeling into the equation as well; ... unless you're planning to sail solo; how does your most important crewmember/Admiral feel about it? 

 

Best of luck!  Regardless of how you decide, hope to see you cruising around some day.

 

Gary W

SM 209, Adagio

Fethiye, Turkey

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Symphony
 

this is my first comment. I don't own an Amel - yet.  I know Eric and his Kimberlite and that was my first inkling that Amel was the boat I might cruise in.  Then i sailed on a new 55' Amel. Nice.

So I joined this list while consider selling my Tartan 4100 and buying an Amel.

I have crewed three times on 40-45' catamarans.  the benefits and problems of cats have been well-detailed here and elsewhere.  They are fantastic at anchor in the Bahamas.  They are not fantastic sailing in a full gale from Bermuda to Antigua.

But one thing that I had not considered until I spent a few good weeks on cats - a 45' cat has the equivalent waterline of a 90' monohull.  think about painting the bottom or scrubbing the water line by yourself and let it sink in to your mind. think about caring for the toe rail, cove stripe, etc.  90' feet is a lot.  90' is not retirement cruising. 

there is more than double the deck space on a 45' cat over a 55' monohull.  deck space is nice, but I found the wide cat deck spaces to be a situation of Diminishing Returns; I did not enjoy the boat 200% more, but I did have 250% more deck to clean, wax, maintain, etc.  Same for the wide open space in the salon and the cockpit.  I really could not use the space there, but I had to wipe the floor down often, especially when offshore - slippery and dangerous in a big swell.  it was much more wiping than on my Tartan monohull.  the open floor space did not increase my enjoyment enough to justify increasing my maintenance cleaning effort so much.

for maintenance equivalence you might consider comparing a 55' mono to a 25' multihull and then weigh the advantages of safety, comfort, speed, anchoring.  It was enough to put my wife and I off catamarans.   but mostly my wife and I missed the fantastic sounds and sensations that a monohull creates when it is sailing.  pure joy.

best wishes to all you cruisers,
Richard
Tartan 4100 in Milford Connecticut.



From: "gary@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2017 10:10 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

 
I did tons and tons of research before deciding Cat vs. mono.  My reasoning was bouncing back and for for several months but ultimately came down to a couple of safety considerations and a couple of financial ones.
The safety ones were Amel specific; stainless steel lifelines, water-tight compartments, center cockpit, hull-to-deck fusing and the rigging itself. Couldn't find any brands that were built the same as the Amel in those regards.

Financial considerations were resale and docking and fuel.  Resale is pretty much always good on the Amel, but I couldn't find a consistently true pattern on the Cats, except at the very high end.  Docking almost always costs 1.5x to 2x for a Cat because you take up two slips and with the benefit if two engines comes the fuel expense, increased maintenance and shortened range of running them.  

The cats are all over the monohulls for spaciousness and an easy-going ride in easy seas. It's true they are generally faster on the runs and faster under motor.  It's also true that (generally) the rigs are taller, the sails are higher off the water, and (as mentioned before) that comfortable rode goes away pretty dramatically in choppy water when one hull strikes a wave differently than the other one.
I guess I also hold the belief that, generically, you cant load a Cat like you can a monohull without the risk overstressing the structure.  That's an un-researched opinion, but I believe it to be true.

Of course, I'm going to vote for a monohull because I chose one and I want you to be like me :)  Joking aside; we've done 4 rally crossings and he cats all made it just fine.  It did seem as though they had some bigger 'adventures' than we did though.  It's a tough thing to quantify ... best let a bit of feeling into the equation as well; ... unless you're planning to sail solo; how does your most important crewmember/Admiral feel about it? 

Best of luck!  Regardless of how you decide, hope to see you cruising around some day.

Gary W
SM 209, Adagio
Fethiye, Turkey








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

hanspeter baettig
 

gary i like your last posting.. Coniderations... Resale ! and docking ...
I have my SM since 1993 never consider to sell my boat
So pls explaine ; you sail a SM only for a small time and ???
Best reagrds
Hanspeter
SM Tamango 2', #16

Von meinem iPad gesendet

Am 24.01.2017 um 16:10 schrieb gary@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

I did tons and tons of research before deciding Cat vs. mono.  My reasoning was bouncing back and for for several months but ultimately came down to a couple of safety considerations and a couple of financial ones.
The safety ones were Amel specific; stainless steel lifelines, water-tight compartments, center cockpit, hull-to-deck fusing and the rigging itself. Couldn't find any brands that were built the same as the Amel in those regards.

Financial considerations were resale and docking and fuel.  Resale is pretty much always good on the Amel, but I couldn't find a consistently true pattern on the Cats, except at the very high end.  Docking almost always costs 1.5x to 2x for a Cat because you take up two slips and with the benefit if two engines comes the fuel expense, increased maintenance and shortened range of running them.  

The cats are all over the monohulls for spaciousness and an easy-going ride in easy seas. It's true they are generally faster on the runs and faster under motor.  It's also true that (generally) the rigs are taller, the sails are higher off the water, and (as mentioned before) that comfortable rode goes away pretty dramatically in choppy water when one hull strikes a wave differently than the other one.
I guess I also hold the belief that, generically, you cant load a Cat like you can a monohull without the risk overstressing the structure.  That's an un-researched opinion, but I believe it to be true.

Of course, I'm going to vote for a monohull because I chose one and I want you to be like me :)  Joking aside; we've done 4 rally crossings and he cats all made it just fine.  It did seem as though they had some bigger 'adventures' than we did though.  It's a tough thing to quantify ... best let a bit of feeling into the equation as well; ... unless you're planning to sail solo; how does your most important crewmember/Admiral feel about it? 

Best of luck!  Regardless of how you decide, hope to see you cruising around some day.

Gary W
SM 209, Adagio
Fethiye, Turkey






Re: Electronics questions for 2003 sm#380

Duane Siegfri
 

Steve,

Shortly after we bought our Amel, the plotter at the helm (Furuno RDP 148) wouldn't work.  I sent it to Furuno for repairs, and after testing it was unrepairable (no charge for this service).  I bought a used one from Ebay for about $400 and then it wouldn't work with the main chartplotter down below.  After discussing with Furuno Tech Help on the phone (they were great about that) I sent it in to have it tested and update the operating system to be the same as the Ebay RDP 148 (the latest software).  Furuno updated it and mailed it back - no charge, not even for mailing it.  They noticed the trackball wasn't up to snuff and replaced it at no charge.  This equipment is 11 years old!

I'm told that they provided the RDP 149/1824c system to the USCG and so will continue to support it for some years yet.  How reliable this is, I can't say.

I plan on buying identical gear when something fails on Ebay and keep the system I've got.  If I were to replace a working system now, in ten years when I sell the boat it will be outdated.  As long as it provides me with accurate data and I can buy map chips, I'm going to spend that $40k (estimate I heard here for equipment and labor) on other things!  But that's a personal decision.

We also have two separate electronic backup systems in case the Furuno equipment bites the dust at some inconveinent time.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Gary Wells
 

I did tons and tons of research before deciding Cat vs. mono.  My reasoning was bouncing back and for for several months but ultimately came down to a couple of safety considerations and a couple of financial ones.
The safety ones were Amel specific; stainless steel lifelines, water-tight compartments, center cockpit, hull-to-deck fusing and the rigging itself. Couldn't find any brands that were built the same as the Amel in those regards.

Financial considerations were resale and docking and fuel.  Resale is pretty much always good on the Amel, but I couldn't find a consistently true pattern on the Cats, except at the very high end.  Docking almost always costs 1.5x to 2x for a Cat because you take up two slips and with the benefit if two engines comes the fuel expense, increased maintenance and shortened range of running them.  

The cats are all over the monohulls for spaciousness and an easy-going ride in easy seas. It's true they are generally faster on the runs and faster under motor.  It's also true that (generally) the rigs are taller, the sails are higher off the water, and (as mentioned before) that comfortable rode goes away pretty dramatically in choppy water when one hull strikes a wave differently than the other one.
I guess I also hold the belief that, generically, you cant load a Cat like you can a monohull without the risk overstressing the structure.  That's an un-researched opinion, but I believe it to be true.

Of course, I'm going to vote for a monohull because I chose one and I want you to be like me :)  Joking aside; we've done 4 rally crossings and he cats all made it just fine.  It did seem as though they had some bigger 'adventures' than we did though.  It's a tough thing to quantify ... best let a bit of feeling into the equation as well; ... unless you're planning to sail solo; how does your most important crewmember/Admiral feel about it? 

Best of luck!  Regardless of how you decide, hope to see you cruising around some day.

Gary W
SM 209, Adagio
Fethiye, Turkey






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electronics questions for 2003 sm#380

hanspeter baettig
 

Hi Colin
I'm still interested for the pic's;  FWD camera & 2. AP
thanks a lot
Hanspeter

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Am 16.01.2017 um 01:31 schrieb SV Island Pearl II colin.d.streeter@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hi Hanspeter

I see I missed your other question about how we installed the 2nd autopilot. It is the same as many others on this forum, ie 2nd new course computer is inside hatch above galley sink as is the quick change over switch between autopilot A & B. 2nd autopilot head just fitted next to original ST7001 in cockpit. Will send pic when we get back if you still need one.

Colin Streeter, Island Pearl II
Amel 53 #332, Brisbane

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 1:50 AM, 'hanspeter.baettig@...' hanspeter.baettig@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Dear Colin
I'm interessted how you installed the second Raymarine Autopilot to the helm. As I understood, you installed not a linear drive AP direct to the rudder Quadrant.Correct ?
Can you send me some pics per email ? Also if you can send me infos/pics about the installation of your fwd/rear facing camera.
my email: Hanspeter.baettig at bluemail dot ch
 
Thank you very much.
Hanspeter
SM Tamango 2
----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----
Von : amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Datum : 15/01/2017 - 01:26 (UTC)
An : amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Betreff : Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electronics questions for 2003 sm#380

 

On Island Pearl II we like the old B&G instruments but we have linked these to two new Raymarine E70 chart plotters (Nav station & rear cabin) plus a new ES97 at the helm. We went with a Raymarine 650 AIS, a Raymarine Network system to network all displays off any one of the plotters chart cards and added a 2nd full new Raymarine Autopilot at the helm with quick change over switch between autopilot 1 and 2.

These are all great but you could do the same with any brand, we just happen to prefer Raymarine now as it is robust (like B&G used to be before being bought out).

By far the best new equipment we added was the latest Raymarine Quantum radar. This little unit is absolutely incredible in picking up even isolated unlit thin mooring poles when night sailing and best of all uses almost nil power!! We now have it on all the time whilst sailing, and for the first time ever we now have peace of mind sailing on pitch black nights with no moonlight! It was not all that expensive either, and we kept the old Amel supplied radar as well as backup and for seeing further but haven't even switched the old one on once since getting the Quantum. Just moved it's screen back in the nav station area so we can fit a monitor in front of it on a swing arm to access the old radar when/if required. Also on the 2nd radar mount (1 meter below the original) we have a fwd and rear facing camera linked to the TV's so can see what's coming and going whilst sailing solo and down making a cup of tea etc..

Lastly, if it is not yet done, have the old B&G instruments linked to your auto-pilots and network. This way everything talks to each other via NMEA. We also have 4 extra Raymarine i 70 displays on the boat so we can see wind, radar, AIS, Speed, Depth on these too, plus to get the benefit of using the new autopilot on "wind pilot" mode which we sometimes find handy. Possibly all the I70's was overkill though and not necessary as we generally only have 2 of these on most of the time. 

But of everything I would say absolutely the Quantum Radar was the very best buy.

Colin & Lauren Streeter, 
Island Pearl II, Amel 53 # 332
Brisbane

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 8:20 AM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Good afternoon Steve,

First, congratulations for becoming the owner of #380, you definitely acquire a beautiful sailing vessel and welcome to the Amel Family.

I can’t reply your question, but want to pick your mind on it…

Just like you, when I purchased my SM2K not so long ago in 2012, I was very excited, had lots of ideas… changing, upgrading, etc…
many people (Bill, Kent, etc.) gave the same advice: don’t change anything for at least one year.

If I may ask, what is wrong with your current Furuno radar? Just Old? Not the latest?
The technician that installed my ICOM AIS Transmitter in 2013, give me his opinion on the rest of my electronics, since he was highly recommended and I would have done (right or wrong) anything he said. He actually said my Furuno Radar (regardless of its age) is a great one, still used by many fishermen, so don’t replace it. And I follow his advice.

Regarding the Navigation equipments, my plan was to do like Francisco and Oddette on Peregrinus SM2K #250 having a B&G Zeus 12 with slave monitor, etc.).
Therefore, to be honest, the 20% spending budget on the purchasing price for the 1st year, was already spent, so I decided to keep using multiple (for back up reason) iPad with Navionics charts on and Bad Elf to send GPS location through Blue Tooth.
I am sure it is very deferent to what most people use, but has been working very well for me for the last 4 years in the Bahamas and the Caribbean.
I can walk anywhere I want with my iPad (with water proof protection), etc.
If not use as a primary, I would definitely recommend use it as back up, countless stories of sailing I met (non-Amel owners) who had their primary Chart plotter failing and end up using the iPad + GPS sending.

As one of my instructors said, don’t spend too much money upgrading what is already working (and has been working sufficiently for over a decade), think more about spending money on “expected/scheduled” maintenance (like Bow Thruster, C-Drive, engine, genset, etc.).

Just sharing, and congratulations again on purchasing SM#280!

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 1/14/17, steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Electronics questions for 2003 sm#380
To: amelyachtowners@...m
Date: Saturday, January 14, 2017, 3:36 PM




 









Hi all, I am headed down to Fort
Lauderdale next week to continue getting to know my newly
acquired SM and am planning on meeting with Jeff Grossman of
Associated Electronics to evaluate the current Furuno vx2
set up and discuss possible upgrades.  I have recently seen
a few comments on the forum warning against letting regular
'electronics types' poke around and work in the
electrically bonded world of Amel electronics.  Are there
specific things I need to be aware of before going ahead
with an upgrade?  Are there 24v/bonded protocols or
specialists in the south Florida
area?
I must say, the sense I get
from reading the various threads on the forum make me feel
as if I need to educate myself to a level higher than most
of those I ask to service my vessel so that I can personally
oversee all work done to her, and this seems daunting to a
new owner.  
Those that have altered or
replaced the original Nav electronics (Chartplotters, radar,
AIS, etc), what have you gone with, and where and who did
the work, or would you recommend to do the
work?
Thanks for your time,
consideration, and knowledge,Steve
MorrisonSM#380
TouraiFt Lauderdale





--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445






--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: Amel surveyors in the Caribbean

Jacob Champness
 

BTW, my phone number is 720 938 9119.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Terence Singh
 

Dena and I competed an 18 month cruise of the North and South Pacific returning June of last year. 
My comments are not opinion just what we saw in terms of Catamaran's versus our Libby. SM #196.

I would preface by saying we have never regretted a single day of owning Libby. As many here have stated, our vessels were designed from the ground up for a specific purpose which is World Ocean Cruising, short handed. Libby has excelled in every respect and greatly exceed our expectations.

During our 18 months we had the opportunity to sail various off shore passages in the company of mono hulls as wells a many Catamarans.

A few first hand observations on Catamarans

1. We were/are envious of the amount of usable space Catamarans provide. Especially for entertaining. The stability at anchor is also a big consideration.
2. Maneuverability in tight spaces is superior. (we have however mastered Libby to the same degree)
3. Catamarans can sail faster and closer to the wind. ( we tasted this against FatCat a Lagoon 470 from Tuamotos to Nuku Hiva) 
4. There is a huge trade off in comfort when sailing to weather with respect to wave action on the twin hills. Cat owners might tell you this might be the worst part of owning such a boat.
5. Cat's provide little feedback onweather conditions. It is fairly easy for un-disciplined sailors to become overpowered and reconciliation on a Cat it not as simple as on an Amel
6. Reefing the mainsail requires outside work perched on the open deck at the mast. We have had many conversations with Cat owners that just left two Reefs in the main all the time as it was too much trouble during a 20 day passage reefing and un-reefing. We don't have this problem.
7.
8. Cat's have much deck space for mounting solar panels etc, we met several Cat's that were completely self sufficient on solar power generation.
9. Two engines speak for themselves.
10. Shallow draft speaks for itself.
11. I debated over many sundowners if two Catamaran hulls are safer than "one Amel" Hull. This is an opinion, I think it's awash.
12. From a simplicity of operation standpoint the Amel is far superior. 
13. Other than carrying twice the number of critical spare parts, I think maintainance is awash as well.

We have invested a huge amount of time and money into Libby making her a vessel my wife and I trust our lives with. While we have looked at Cat's  over the last years we still lean towards what we know and can trust, which is Libby.

If we ever give up the future thoughts of Ocean passages we will seriously consider a Lagoon 450 / 470.

One final thought.
Nuku Hiva to Hilo in 14 days, close reaching, waves 4-5 meters and consistent winds 15-25knots gusting to 40 knots. 
Libby performed flawlessly. 
I shudder to think what that passage might have been in a Catamaran.

I hope sharing what we saw and have considered helps.

Terry Singh
SV Libby #196 1997 SM 
Currently Ship Point, Victoria, BC


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Porter,

This is not really a question for this forum…
We are proud Amel owners, we choose our vessel because we believe in them.

Personally, I have looked at hundreds of sailboats over the years before purchasing my SM2K.
Every boat, Sloop, Yawl, Ketch, Catamaran, trimaran has advantages and inconveniences, you need to understand these.
My priority was ease of maintenance, which relate to quality of construction, and ease of sail since I am solo.

It depends on “your” needs:
For sailing around the BVI a Catamaran is perfect.
For sailing around the world, a monohull is the only “serious” choice.

In Bimini my neighbors just crossed the Atlantic from Italy on a 62 Lagoon, they were complaining so many things broke on their (brand new) boat… The hulls were constantly plunging under water in 8 ft sea.
I single hand my Super Maramu 2000 in 12 ft sea (not my preferred choice, but it happened) and had no problem.

Some people are pro-catamaran.
Sure your friend is correct on 2 engines, faster (on beam reach) and shallower draft.

Therefore, the bedrooms are very small (because the hulls are obviously narrower).
There engine rooms are tiny and difficult to access. I love the engine room on the Amel.
Marina will charge you 1.5 x the price of monohull.
Catamaran won’t sail as closed to the wind.
Catamaran have lots of windage.
Catamaran are very limited with how much weight they can carry (in the BVI you get parts easily but not if you go around the world).
Catamaran mast are design to break in high wind before it flip the boat, monohull will be knock off but always come back up.

Most importantly, you can not compare a 50ft catamaran and a 50 ft monohull. You compare a 38 ft catamaran to a 54 ft monohull (for equal volume).
If you look at price and you see a 50 ft catamaran with the same price than a 50 ft monohull, then you need to put serious consideration on the quality of construction and equipments…

You can absolutely not compare a mass product Lagoon, Fountaine Pajot, Robertson & Caine, etc. made for charter with a finely build Amel, Halberg Rassy, Swan, etc. made for extended cruising.
It is like comparing a Bentley with a Chevrolet (no offense to Chevrolet owners, I owned several myself).
These Catamarans, are design to maximize open space for weekly charter and offer very limited storage.
In Amel and other fine cruising vessel, you will have plenty of storage.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI





--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 1/23/17, W Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Monday, January 23, 2017, 8:38 PM


 









Let me start by
again thanking you for all your help along the
way.
I’d set to purchasing an AMEL54
 and am quite committed, researched the brand and boat for
a long time now.  
Recently a friend and long time
sailor also professional captain of a 200’ private yacht
commented after i showed him the AMEL 54:
Having lived on my own
sailboat and worked for years on other owners sailboats, I
highly recommend you looking into a Catamaran!  Like the
one the listing broker has like a Lagoon 500!You get twice the space, 2 engines,
they are faster and have a shallow draft for anchoring in
many places you will not get into with a mono-hull.  The
salon and aft outside seating area are very roomy so you
don't get cramped.  Mono-hull's you are always
sleeping at a angle and cooking too.  I would never run one
again just because of not being able to relax more like you
can with a Cat hull.  The only down-side is that you
usually need to be docked on the end or T-head of the
marinas because of how much wider their beam is.    The
best part of sailing is getting to the next destination and
relaxing and enjoying the freedom of where you are.  The
Cat-hull lets you stretch-out and really enjoy where you are
with much more inside and outside space.  If you have not tried one, I think
you should go charter for 2-3 days a Catamaran in the
BVI's then a Mono-hull and see what you think!
 You are
about to spend a-lot of money and do a major life change.
 I just don't want you to jump into it without trying
all the options available. I have spent years and thousands
of miles on Mono-hull sailboats and would never do it again
with the great Catamaran options that are out
there. 
I am about to pull the trigger, am I
making the right choice?I was pretty certain i was until the
above response.

Could you lend me your
thoughts?
Were a family of four with plans for
an around the world cruise for at least 4 years.
 Am i
making a mistake?  I am the kind of person who once he
makes a decision then makes certain it's the right one
and goes with it.  
Its very much
appreciated.
Thank you again Porter


























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Re: Is a Monohull (AMEL) the right choice?

Sv Garulfo
 

Hi Porter, 

As others have said, it depends on the details of your cruising project. People will defend their own choices, so it's important to relate their point of view to their own project (which sometimes is not actually clear in the various online forum discussions). You will find more people advocating cats there because of simple demographics. There are a lot more people planning island hoping in the tropics than circumnavigating. 

Statistics tend to show it: cats are getting more common in the Caribbean, for chartering locally in particular. The boats you will find cruising in farther corners of the world (NZ, SA, Northern Europe, Mediterranean, South America) are more often monohulls. 

Another aspect is the crew. A lot of parents prefer Cats for the space they offer and the expected flat-sailing. On the other hand there are plenty of families cruising monohulls. I think kids will adapt anywhere so it's more the parents' choice for their own comfort.


Our choice for an Amel 54 was done long before we pulled the trigger a few months ago. We did plenty of research and read extensively online and we felt they were the right boat should we want to go anywhere in the world. 
We (2 of us) just spent 3 months in wintery Mediterranean with rougher weather and the boat handled it beautifully. Fast, not that much healing (thanks to the ketch rig), and a lot of momentum to go through the seas. Boat movements were rather predictable depiste the typical confused sea state in the med. I would think a cat would have been tossed around a lot more. The protection of the centre cockpit is fantastic and we could spend night watches there in high winds, big seas and cold temperatures, managing canvas easily. I wouldn't have wanted to be at the backend of a cat, planning to go reefing the main in those conditions. Do-able, of course, and maybe fun the first and second time, but not so much when it's bound to happen again and again for months or years.

In conclusion I would rather sail an Amel around the world and would rather live on a Cat at anchor in the Caribbean.

Hope that helps,

Thomas 

Garulfo
Amel 54 #122
Hyeres, France



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu "Wearing Bearing" - quick question?

Alan Leslie
 

I'll get some
Cheers Eric...
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Dual/articulating whisker poles

Jacob Champness
 

Thanks Kent!


Re: Amel surveyors in the Caribbean

Jacob Champness
 

BTW John, 

How's the internet there in Martinique?  We're looking at moving aboard a Maramu based in Le Marin, but I need reliable internet for work.  

Are you familiar with the Maramu Hydrophile?  She's the one we have our eye on.  I'd love to hear anything you might know about her.

Thanks!
Jacob


Re: Amel surveyors in the Caribbean

Jacob Champness
 

Thanks so much for the recommendations!  I will give both gentlemen a call.

All the best,
Jacob


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu "Wearing Bearing" - quick question?

eric freedman
 

Alan,

You should try the stuff, it is really amazing.

Fair Winds

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2017 11:19 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu "Wearing Bearing" - quick question?

 

 

Thanks Eric...

Cheers

Alan

Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Super Maramu "Wearing Bearing" - quick question?

Alan Leslie
 

Thanks Eric...
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437