Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

Ian Shepherd
 

Thanks Bill,

as my nav software displays VMG, I will play around with apparent wind angles and VMG. I think we have the car in similar position.

Regards

Ian


On 11/08/2017 18:10, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 


From what I see, if my jib car is adjusted properly the leech of the sail comes to the shroud at almost the same time as the foot.  I don't have a single "best" position for the jib car, it moves back and forth depending on the wind strength.

Certainly when the windward and leeward telltails are streaming "correctly" the sail is pulling at its hardest. But that is not necessarily the point that gives you the best veloitcy over ground to windward.  Pointing higher and giving up a bit of boat speed can get you up wind further, faster.  It's a balance.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


---In amelyachtowners@..., wrote :

Bill,

yes you are right, but please take into considerations two things. Firstly, I always leave my poles rigged. This is because I use them a lot and also for added security. There is something to grab should I stumble when coming back to the cockpit. Being single handed, it's essential that I don't go overboard. The folded poles  limit slightly the sheeting angle, but even with the poles not present I would not sheet in further than the foot of the sail just about to touch the shrouds.Secondly I am talking about sailing with windward and leeward tell tales streaming correctly. I have sailed Crusader at 37 apparent in strong winds but the flow is not laminar over the whole sail, as as you know, Amel only demonstrate 40 degrees when handing the boat over.

Where to you have the genoa cars when close hauled? Mine are 2 inches aft of the rear fixing bolt on the side of the dodger.Our sails are probably not exactly the same of course. My upper windward tell tales are just twitching when sheeted in to the poles and the car in this position.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece


On 07/08/2017 21:32, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

If I figure the numbers right (39 +6) the old sail was only allowing 45 degrees apparent as the best pointing angle. That is truly awful and is hardly representative of a triradial sail's performance on a Super Maramu.  


Even 39 degrees apparent is not so great.  If I am working my way to windward in typical conditions, I expect to see 37 deg apparent, and 50 deg true. Of course you can only learn so much from apparent wind angles. The real question is velocity made good, over ground, to windward.  But that number is rarely ever talked about. 

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Modified SM Prop Shaft Seal Bush

Ian Shepherd
 

Bill you are absolutely right. I checked the Amel diagram and the spring on the outer seal should face the prop and the springs on the other two seals should face into the transmission box. This was the way that I had the seals during the 7 year experiment. I remember having to drill into the outer seals spring when I made a hole for the extracting screw. My apologies for suggesting putting them in a the other way round.

Regarding the debris situation, the rubber tube should help to keep fishing line etc out. My tube was beginning to deteriorate so I had a Teflon sleeve made up to fit between the bearing boss and the prop. As an after thought, at the next haul out  I may have the sleeve turned down a fraction and fit O-Rings to each end face so that when the prop is tightened up, the O-Rings make a good seal and keep even mud particles out. The sleeve could also be packed with grease to improve the lubrication of the out seal.

Regards

Ian shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Greece


On 11/08/2017 17:33, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

There is having the outer seals facing the other way, but protecting the spring from seawater is not it.


Lip seals are designed to "pump" fluid as the shaft turns, from the "outside" to the "inside".  This pumping action is obviously VERY tiny. It helps in normal installations with oil on the inside and air on the outside to move any small amount of seeping oil back into the gearbox.

Our application is quite different.  The shaft seal on the C-Drive needs to keep two incompatible liquids apart. It is not something one standard single-lip seal can do, even when it is functioning perfectly.  The three seals are NOT there for triple redundancy, rather they work together as an integrated design.  

If the outer seal was installed "normally" it would be constantly moving a tiny amount of water toward the oil chamber.  Obviously not a good idea.  When people put these seals together backwards, and find water in the transmission, they assume the seal has failed early, when it is actually doing just what it is designed to do!

Think of it this way, the outer seal is working to keep the water in the ocean and the other two are keeping the oil in the gear box.  One could make a reasonable argument (as SKF tech support does in the email quoted in this thread) that the best way to install them is two keeping water out and one keeping oil in, but that would be an incremental change, not a dramatic one.

The upshot of this is once the outer seal fails, you will get water into the oil, even if the two inner seals are in perfect condition.  On the other hand, the chances for a rapid, catastrophic lose of oil are very low.

The biggest wear factor on these seals (Absent fishing line!) is grit in the water. Sand, mud, slit, all will score the wear bushing. One hour motoring in muddy river water is much harder on the wear bushing than many hours in clear tropical ocean water.  No matter what material the bushing is made of, it will wear, but some materials (stainless) will wear slower than others (bronze). 

Why did Amel chose bronze for this part?  I do not know.  It is softer than any seal maker would recommend, but remember that hardness recommendation is for hard to replace shafts, not replaceable bushings. Certainly bronze is easier to machine than stainless.  Based on comments to this group previously, Amel apparently tested a stainless bushing, but they have now gone back to supplying bronze.  Why?  I do not know.

Unless it is really bad, the rubber parts don't get chewed up as fast as you might think.  The grit "sticks" to the rubber and is not abrading it that much. That is how rubber can wear away metal without being destroyed itself.  But... once the bushing surface is damaged, THEN the seal gets worn quite quickly.

If you do decide to have a custom wear bushing made, be sure the machinist knows what is being made and what's important.  Just by way of example, the surface needs to be polished to (at least) the level specified by the seal manufacturer.  There should also be NO spiral tooling marks on the surface, in either direction--even before polishing.  This is NOT just a hunk of metal of a certain size. There is a lot of un-obvious detail here, and all of it important. If the machinist does not seem interested in these details, then he is the wrong guy for the job. Without knowing the details you might get lucky and have it work... or not. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Modified SM Bow Thruster

Ian Shepherd
 

Hello Paul,

you could but as you will be taking the thruster out, why not do the simple job of replacing the bearings with new sealed ones? They are not expensive. All you need is a puller to get them off and a tube to tap them back on if you don't have access to a press. You will find that the thruster will sound smother afterwards. Amel now use sealed bearings or so I have heard.

Regarding the play in your hub, please note that the stainless sleeve does not extend much beyond the lip seal. (See my photo in the photo's section), so the pin does not go through the sleeve. Sounds like you need to replace the hub. They do get sloppy after much use.

Good luck

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader About to depart for Cyprus


On 11/08/2017 16:52, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Ian, very interesting 

Would it be possible and a good idea to use lithium grease even with opened ball bearings?
I changed my bearings last year, but will haul out soon, so to opens the gear boat and put in lithium grease would be a small and quick job

I have some play between the propeller  hub and the shaft so a steel bushing would solve that

Paul on SY Kerpa SM259 currently cruising Rhode Island 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

Ian Park
 

Ian
I have decided to desist the temptation of ruining the ballooner! I don't have space to carry an extra sail that I would rarely use.
Anyway, I can tell just from the look on my Linda's patient face that reads "What are you playing at. Why don't you just put the engine on and get there!!"
Thanks for the confirmation anyway.

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

Alan Leslie
 

Hi Bill,
I can answer that one. We do the same with the outboard on the rail but outboard of the rail not inboard, so it only has to clear the attachment clamps, not the whole outboard motor.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Spare Main Halyard Spec's

drew.gaffney@...
 

On last trip up the mast, noticed some breaks in spare halyard cover; time to replace.  Does anyone have the size, length and type of line.  I'm in the US for a few weeks and want to get the replacement while in the US.
Thanks,

Drew

SY Revelation, SM390
Lying Oban, UK


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

greatketch@...
 

Danny,

Am I following you right? Your lifting line does not go up to the spreaders? How do you lift the boom high enough to get the outboard over the rail?

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine

---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Hi Kent, there is a t cleat on the mizzen mast at about boom height. we attach a block to that and run the line over that and down to the main sheet winch and is what you call a fair lead I think. Works well and we can swivel the boom easily.

Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2017 at 13:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243
 

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: NZ cat one surveys

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,

They do require emergency water. I satisfy that with eight 5 litre plastic bottles stowed under  the galley floor.

And they are reasonable in my experience. If its a shonky boat and or a shonky skipper I would expect them to be pretty firm, in fact I know they are.

Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2017 at 14:38 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Danny,


Thanks for that!  

There were a few more things when I was perusing the Cat 1 requirements (things like at least two independent freshwater tanks) but it sounds like the inspectors have enough flexibility to be reasonable.

As I said, no practical use to me, just wondering!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.

 


 


Re: NZ cat one surveys

greatketch@...
 

Danny,

Thanks for that!  

There were a few more things when I was perusing the Cat 1 requirements (things like at least two independent freshwater tanks) but it sounds like the inspectors have enough flexibility to be reasonable.

As I said, no practical use to me, just wondering!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent, there is a t cleat on the mizzen mast at about boom height. we attach a block to that and run the line over that and down to the main sheet winch and is what you call a fair lead I think. Works well and we can swivel the boom easily.

Regards

Danny

On 12 August 2017 at 13:49 "Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243
 

 


 


NZ cat one surveys

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,

There was a query a few days back about the NZ cat one departure surveys for off shore yachts and how Amel yachts fared in this inspection. I have been having trouble connecting with the forum so my reply has been delayed. Ocean Pearl has passed this inspection at least five times. I have found the Yachting NZ inspectors helpful and practical with Ocean Pearl and my previous yachts.

It is a pain and expense to replace the flares that are required every three years, likewise the life-raft servicing, annually or bi annually if you pay a bit more

What issues are there? The Amel doesn't have a tri sail track and its not practical to fit one. The inspectors being practical people acknowledged the ketch rig gave enough storm sail options. This year the rules have been changed so it requires triple stitching of a "tri sail" size portion of the main sail that may be unfurled in a storm.  The life rail is slightly lower than specified but the solid top rail satisfied them. I believe dorade vents are specified but the amel ventilation options satisfied them.

There are comprehensive equipment requirements much more than the 4 buckets Alan mentioned. Communication, distress communication, safety equipment, first aid, tools, sufficient water and  fuel, navigation equipment and a competent  navigator. And of course a competent and experienced skipper.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

Steve Morrison <steve_morrison@...>
 

Hi Kent, 

Yes on my boat (380) there is a block exactly where you say from which I can run the lift out to the cheek block on the mizzen boom.  I just used it this afternoon to swing my Tohatsu off the rail and over to the dock on the port side for servicing. I will take a photo of it in the morning and see if I can clarify the attachment point for you.

All the best,
Steve Morrison
SM380 TouRai
Brunswick, GA

 

On 11 August 2017, at 9:49 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

karkauai
 

Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Block at the mizzenmast spreader to lift dinghy motor

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

this is a test, Ive been having trouble replying to forum messages.

Danny

On 12 August 2017 at 10:11 "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all. I'm going to add a block at the mizzenmast spreaders to lift the outboard and to put the dinghy on the aft cabintop for passages.
Can someone tell me where the block is attached? And how much line it takes to do its varied jobs?

There are wire loops (~7-8mm dia) on the two bolts that hold the spreaders on the mast, between the forward and aft mizzen mast shroud attachments. Is that where the block is attached? It doesn't look like a fair lead with the shrouds in the way of the working end of the line???

As always, thanks for your help.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD til this Fall


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: maramu mail roller furler swivel

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 06 August 2017 at 08:31
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: maramu mail roller furler swivel

I tried to send this before and got a failure notice. Here goes again. sorry if you've had it before.

Danny

Hi All,

It is possible I am going to save some of us a lot of grief. On my previous yacht we had a roller furler head sail. On an ocean crossing the upper swivel jammed solid with the sail half out. Wouldn't move in or out. Totally stuck. It was a 15 metre mast so the manual unwrapping of the sail was a hard physical exercise. Once the sail was unfurled we dropped the sail and got the swivel down to the deck. With not many options mid ocean we washed the swivel with fresh water and bingo it was free, spun perfectly. The rollers in the swivel had got coated with salt. It didn't look salt coated but that's what it was. It doesn't take much. So if your upper swivel jams or gets stiff to move, as a simple first step give it a good wash with clean fresh water. With the main and mizzen obviously you cant unwrap them as we did the headsail so take a hose up with the bosuns chair and give the swivel a good fresh water flush. If it works you have fixed it simply, if not you haven't spent too much time. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 05 August 2017 at 02:38 "Kenneth Coats coatskenneth1@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I didn't see your original post so don't know the year of your Maramu.  I have a 1985, the first year of electric roller furling.  The motor and worm drive are in the front of the mast.  I have a friend with a 1986 and his is on lower starboard side.  From memory.  My swivel froze at sea so I wrapped the main around the mast and got into port.  Then up the mast nd removed the pin in the slot that keeps the upper part of the swivel from spinning.   Take the halyard off the swivel and tied the swivel to the top of the furling rod.  This allows the swivel to spin with the furling rod and the sail can be used to get you to a place where you can do the work.  I went back up and loosened the furling rod nut on top the mast to remove the tension.  Then removed the motor and worm gear from front of mast (manual furl mechanism built in drive shaft).  Next remove the gear at the bottom of the furling rod (2 bolts on the bottom, hard work through the slot).  Next take out the lower bearing housing and bearing, (bolted in in my version).  The swivel then came off.  If I recall I had to lift the mast a bit to slide the swivel out.  Now you can fix the swivel and then do everything again backwards.  Look at this as an opportunity to become friends with your mast.  The mizzen works the same way, only no electric motor.

Ken & Judy
Golden Daze #292
1985 Maramu

 


 


lifting dinghy

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent.

To lift the outboard we run a line over the block fastened to the end of the mizzen boom and lead it back over a block to the main sheet winch. To lift the dinghy onto the aft cabin for passages we use the mizzen stay-sail halyard run to the main-sheet winch. Being from the top of the mast there is less sideways pull than you would get from a lifting line from the spreaders.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


Block at the mizzenmast spreader to lift dinghy motor

karkauai
 

Hi all. I'm going to add a block at the mizzenmast spreaders to lift the outboard and to put the dinghy on the aft cabintop for passages.
Can someone tell me where the block is attached? And how much line it takes to do its varied jobs?

There are wire loops (~7-8mm dia) on the two bolts that hold the spreaders on the mast, between the forward and aft mizzen mast shroud attachments. Is that where the block is attached? It doesn't look like a fair lead with the shrouds in the way of the working end of the line???

As always, thanks for your help.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD til this Fall


Re: Down wind sail configuration

Dave_Benjamin
 

The factory twin pole arrangement is tough to beat for any extended periods of downwind sailing. We've built some specially developed light air sails called a CLASS (Cruisers Light Air Sail Solution) that work very well for wing angles above 150 apparent. 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water membranes replacement

Sv Garulfo
 

Ian,

We will certainly try that as soon as all the spares are in. 
Thanks for the tip.

Soraya

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Soraya and Thomas,


 There is an easy way to remove the end caps. Buy  the right sized jubilee clip and fit it around the end cap. Before tightening it, insert two ends of a short piece of webbing to make a loop.

 Now tighten the jubilee clip as tight as you can to trap the two ends of the webbing against the cap.

 Sit in the cockpit and put the loop over one of the cleats on the mizzen mast.  Hold the black tube and give a number of sharp tugs. The end cap will pop off. 


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 08 August 2017 13:25:46
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water membranes replacement
 
Soraya & Thomas,

When Bill Kinney wrote about the dry saltwater membranes, that was the first I heard about the existence of these. So, I cannot comment on any experience with them. I am not sure how long they have been available. When I last bought membranes, Air Water Ice did not have these. In fact, it was the owner of Air Water Ice that told me there was no way for me to buy spares and the necessity to keep the membranes wet until installed. But, things change and one person's limited experience does not mean that his experience is complete. 

I believe that if you can find your size priced between 160-185 euro ex-VAT, that will be about the best price. The best price for the 40 inch membrane for the 160 liter will be around 200 euro. 

The difficult part will be removing the end caps. If you can clamp the end caps in a vise and then twist and pull the tubes from the end caps, you will have no problems. If you try to remove the end caps in your cockpit without a vise, you will have difficulty. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 8, 2017 04:17, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Bill & Bill & all,

We had already downloaded Bill R's PDF guide shared earlier this year, but these additional clarifications are very welcome. Thank you!
 
We are already living aboard (so need membranes shipped), and they are to be installed immediately not for spares (so hopefully wet/dry will be less of an issue this time round).

We will report back to the group on this when sourcing and work has been done :), if useful to others in the region. Many suppliers seem to apply a significant premium so definitely something worth shopping around for, especially if you need 3 like on the DUO100 (we have seen prices ranging from 175 to 480 EUR for 1 membrane !..).

Also curious about how you establish when your membranes need replacing? We are assuming this is a matter of flow (L/h) and/or output TDS measurement. Anything else to consider? Have you generally found that membranes can be used close to their spec (#hours)?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience,

Soraya
& Thomas
-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Port Cros, Côte d'azur, France

On 6 August 2017 at 16:03, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Soraya & Thomas,

I see that Hutter gave you a source in the EU for membranes. Hint: According to Air Water Ice, Filmtec SW membranes have a shelf-life of 6 months. If you suspect that the supplier has had inventory this long, don't buy the membranes from that supplier.

The following information will probably be helpful:
  1. There is only ONE manufacturer of these SW membranes worldwide, so any membrane you buy is made by Filmtec.
  2. There is a special diagonal-cut O'ring that is shipped installed on the membranes from Filmtec. Be careful because this O'ring only allows insertion into the pressure tube in one direction. When you see it, it will be obvious. Also, be careful and aware when you remove the old membranes of the orientation of this special O'ring. Mark the tube and number each tube so that you do not make any mistakes. Additionally, there are a number of O'rings that you should replace when doing this job. The small Bobbin-Interconnects have O'rings and the End Caps have O rings. You should order these from dessalator.com to ensure the correct size.
  3. Hint: the best thing that I have found to use on new O'rings and nitrile gaskets is a silicone grease that you can find in dive shops. It is Trident Silicone Grease. It will also add life to aged O'rings.
  4. Hint: the end-caps will be difficult to remove without damaging them. Care a patience are required if you have never done this before.
  5. Hint: If you buy membranes and either ship them, or carry them in airplane-checked-luggage, buy PVC pipe and end caps from a plumbing supplier. Insert the membrane into the PVC pipe to protect it in shipping. Another Hint: Security will likely want to open these PVC pipes to see what is inside. Do not glue the PVC end caps and be sure to drill a small hole in the end cap. The hole allows for air to enter when pulling the cap off...without the hole the end cap may have to be cut off because vacuum may hold the cap in place. Tape your membrane invoice to the outside of the PVC pipe so that Security can see the document.
Good luck, and I hope that this email helps you.

​Best,​

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


 

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Port Cros, Côte d'azur, France



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

greatketch@...
 


From what I see, if my jib car is adjusted properly the leech of the sail comes to the shroud at almost the same time as the foot.  I don't have a single "best" position for the jib car, it moves back and forth depending on the wind strength.

Certainly when the windward and leeward telltails are streaming "correctly" the sail is pulling at its hardest. But that is not necessarily the point that gives you the best veloitcy over ground to windward.  Pointing higher and giving up a bit of boat speed can get you up wind further, faster.  It's a balance.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sv_freespirit@...> wrote :

Bill,

yes you are right, but please take into considerations two things. Firstly, I always leave my poles rigged. This is because I use them a lot and also for added security. There is something to grab should I stumble when coming back to the cockpit. Being single handed, it's essential that I don't go overboard. The folded poles  limit slightly the sheeting angle, but even with the poles not present I would not sheet in further than the foot of the sail just about to touch the shrouds.Secondly I am talking about sailing with windward and leeward tell tales streaming correctly. I have sailed Crusader at 37 apparent in strong winds but the flow is not laminar over the whole sail, as as you know, Amel only demonstrate 40 degrees when handing the boat over.

Where to you have the genoa cars when close hauled? Mine are 2 inches aft of the rear fixing bolt on the side of the dodger.Our sails are probably not exactly the same of course. My upper windward tell tales are just twitching when sheeted in to the poles and the car in this position.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece


On 07/08/2017 21:32, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

If I figure the numbers right (39 +6) the old sail was only allowing 45 degrees apparent as the best pointing angle. That is truly awful and is hardly representative of a triradial sail's performance on a Super Maramu.  


Even 39 degrees apparent is not so great.  If I am working my way to windward in typical conditions, I expect to see 37 deg apparent, and 50 deg true. Of course you can only learn so much from apparent wind angles. The real question is velocity made good, over ground, to windward.  But that number is rarely ever talked about. 

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.