Date   

Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Duane Siegfri
 

I'll check that Trevor.

Thanks,
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

greatketch@...
 

Thanks,  I have always used cable lube, or soap in a pinch.  It really can be amazing the difference.  

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass


---In amelyachtowners@..., <simms@...> wrote :

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it

myself

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

greatketch@...
 

Something I haven't seen mentioned here before, is that the switches for the winches are specified by Lewmar as having only a 3 to 5 year life span before they need to be replaced.  I am sure that is conservative, but remember they are not forever!

Once that rubber cover starts to get dull and "grainy" from sun exposure it's time to swap them out--before it fails.  Its an easy job, and prevents dangerous problems.

I remember seeing a photo in a SM sales listing with one of the winch switches having an obvious hole in the rubber cover.  That gave me a very good idea of the attention to maintenance on that boat!

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Mark Erdos
 

Bill,

 

 

When we replace one of our radar cables, we had to remove the cover plate on the port side of the mast at the base. As the cable makes it way down the mast, there is a tube it has to align with that leads to the aft head compartment. The plug on the cable can hang on the upper lip of this tube. We used a wire hook to guide the cable plug and ensure the plug was not damaged during the pulling of the cable.

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Guadeloupe - Îles des Saintes

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 9:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

 

 

Hello All,

 

After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.

 

I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.

 

Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!

 

Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Boston, Mass

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I believe everything is covered in the prior total of posts on this subject:
  1. Lube the cable with either Cable Lube or liquid soap...Cable Lube is better. Cable Lube is found in Electric Supply shops and is used by electricians to pull wire through conduit.
  2. Don't pull the new cable with the old, but you can pull an new line down with the old cable, then use that line to pull the new cable up
  3. If you use one of the Amel installed pulling lines, you will find a piece of foam tied every 1-2 meters. This makes the line a little difficult to pull, but keeps the line from wrapping around existing cable. These anti-tangle pieces of foam also make everything going through that condit a little hard to pull.
  4. Be sure that the "pulling line" is correctly tied to the cable that you are going to pull. 
  5. Use strong pulling line...at least 50 pound test...no kite string here.
  6. If your pulling line breaks, Amel has at least 1 extra line at the spreaders and at the top of the mast...they are all coiled in a ball together at the foot of the mast.
  7. If you use an Amel installed line to pull a cable, when pulling the cable also pull a new line to replace what you used. Either you or the next owner will be thankful later.
CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550




On Thu, Jul 6, 2017 at 2:03 AM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all, I accidently sent the below unfinished, big fingers, small phone key pad.

See finished post below.

Danny

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: 06 July 2017 at 18:58
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it myself. We've had a 1 litre bottle of the cable lube on board for 8 years.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

 

Boston, Mass


 


 



Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Duane,
           If you haven't already done so, pull the rear casing off your windlass. Due to age of your boat you will likely find a neat pile of carbon dust from the brushes right underneath the terminals which can make a short and engage the windlass.
How do I know this????
Best Regards,
Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Roller Furling Questions

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello everybody,

a few words about the genoa furler. I'm using shorcuts, so, feel free for more questions.

There has been several kinds of genoa furlers installed on the Maramus, Sharkis, Mangos, Santorins and Super Maramus, and until roughly 2002, their manual furling sheave was attached to the foil with aluminum rivets covered with silicone filler (mainly to avoid the possibly reamaining steel part inside the rivet to become rusty). The reason was first that it was an easy way to do it (rather than screws and inserts).
The second reason is that it had to be easily replaceable and AMEL did not change it for a long time because it was just working fine like this.
Then came the questions (from the clients) of replacing the forestay (which did not come for the first 20 years...) and yes the sheaves were very often found to be very hard to pull out the stainless steel shaft.

These rivets were not meant to be taken down as long as the sheave could be pulled out of the stainless steel shaft of the furler. But after 5 years, both parts were seized and the only way to take down the furler was to drill the rivets, and then take the furler to a machine shop to hydraulicly press the sheave out of the shaft.
So, many people drilled the rivets if they wanted to service the furler or replace the forestay. Some have replaced the rivets with alu rivets, or with monel rivets (which creates a galvanic couple with the sheave/foil made of aluminum) or with stainless steel screws, installed in stainless steel tapped inserts. This last solution was also developped by AMEL to strengthen the connection between the foil and the sheave, (to avoid the foil to shear, but at that time, using a new kind of sheave (split in two halves).

However, I'm still convinced that the aluminum rivets are strong enough for a regular use of the furler.
Of course, if you overload the furler (like furling without easing the sheets), or, even worse, if you sail without enough halyard tension, then you will overload this connection.

Sometimes, because the aluminum of the foil is too much damaged (the holes being wider) you just can't put new rivets and you need to find another solution (stainless steel inserts or shortening the tube). In that case, stainless steel screws in stainless steel inserts (inside the foil's channels) is a good solution but needs grease in order they can be easily taken down.

Hoping this will not add more confusion to this (rather) simple topic...


Have a good day.

Olivier.




On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 6:23 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
FYI, I don't see the need for shear at this point in the design and suspect that was the reason given originally for the choice of rivets. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 03:20, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi Craig
I too note the points re sheer. However  as you note stainless screws are being used which obviously have high sheer strength. Monel rivets sheer strength is up there with stain less and have two great advantages. No corrosion as they are inert, and ease of use. That is no drilling and tapping of threads.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 05 July 2017 at 08:47 "sangaris@...[ amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 

Hi Danny,
Then again, it may be that the Captain purposely used softer Aluminum rivets as a safety so they would sheer before anything else broke. Kind of like a sheer pin on an (older) outboard motor prop. Several o f us have posited that idea, although I don't think we've gotten a definitive reply from someone like Olivier Beaute. In any case, it seems a reasonable and conservative approach rather than harder stuff like monel and stainless steel Allen screws. (Yes, I did read the posts that Amel Matinique is using the ss Allen screws. Lots of ways to skin a cat, I guess.) 
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris 

---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com, wrote :

Hi.
If you use rivers monel are the best. Inert. That is no corrosion and very strong, Ali are  far too soft and sheer easily.
Regards
Danny
DM ,299
Ocean Pearl
On 03 July 2017 at 13:18 &#3 4;greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 
Mark,

Stainless screws are fine if you use something like Tefgel to isolate them.

Even if you do go with aluminum screws, use Tefgel. The difference in alloys is enough to cause trouble, and the Al screws are not strong enough to remove if there is even a trace of corrosion. Talk to anybody who head had to remove the Al screws Amel used to attach the boom tracks!

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Boston, Mass


 
 

 



Re: Mizzem mast radar cable

calbyy@...
 

I did replace radar & cables inside mast last april; did it whilst masts were laying flat on supports (replaced standing rigging). 
The radar cable on the Maramu goes into one pvc guide tube running from mast step up to spreaders; connection from below deck is thru a gooseneck on the mast support plate, going thru hull to allow pulling cables through.
Trying to pull one new cable with old cable is tricky as cables can have kinks & buckles & get stuck in awkward locations (check for Amel leaders remaining in tube as they are fastened to foam rings at even intervals to avoid cables getting tangled in tube)..
One easy safe way is to use a leader nylon line (fishing gear), fastened safely on old cable; pull cable down to junction box with leader line following track. Cut off & at bottom & secure as pulling end.
Once new scanner is fitted on support with cable plugged on, fasten end of cable to leader line & start pulling (use of talcum powder helps without leaving greasy residues); Pulling on cable coming down with own weight should prove easier (less friction) than horizontally.

Use of old cable for new radar will work only if signals wires are sufficient in number & size, & clearly identified; Best to change all for new, as you will be always in doubt about compatibility if any fault on system later (matter of warranty also).

happy days to you.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, I accidently sent the below unfinished, big fingers, small phone key pad.

See finished post below.

Danny

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 06 July 2017 at 18:58
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it myself. We've had a 1 litre bottle of the cable lube on board for 8 years.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

 

Boston, Mass


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it

myself

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

 

Boston, Mass


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, surely you have all heard of the horror story about a sheet winch on a 54 continuing to run after the operator released it. Being used to haul the male partner up the mast. The female partner and winch operator was severely injured as was a next door helper.

Subsequent to that Joel posted how he witnessed a sheet winch on a 54 self start. Caused, I am told by a fault in the push switch. Amel have moved to Haarken as a result of a messy legal issue.

So these things. can happen. I have heard of a boat that had a halyard left on an electric winch. It was tied off to the pulpit. It self started in the owners absence and did major damage to the pulpit.

So folks, it happens, so we need to be aware and take precautions. Dont leave sheets or halyards loaded on live winches and turn off power to the windlass before leaving he boat.

I don't believe it is a brand issue, it is electrical contacts in a challenging marine enviroment

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2017 at 12:47 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Duane,


Unless the control box has gotten wet inside (which given its location is very unlikely) I can not imagine a realistic scenario that would cause its relays to change state without power being applied to the coils. Granted, I am not always as imaginative as I should be!

If you described a case where the windlass would not shut off after running, the control box is one of the first places I would look, but you said the windlass started up on its own hours (at least) after being used.  That's not a symptom of a "sticking" relay.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Boston, Mass

 


 


Re: Mizzem mast radar cable

Ian Park
 

Bill
I know this job is imminent for me too.
I recall a post just a couple of months back where someone replaced with a new Furuno system and was able to use the existing cabling. Furuno had adapter plugs to fit each end so it was just plug and play!

Ian.
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Alan Leslie
 

Duane, it will be that up button switch no doubt.
The fact that you say the rubber boot is broken and that you get fluky readings on the multimeter almost guarantees that its the switch.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437  


Mizzem mast radar cable

greatketch@...
 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Boston, Mass



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

Unless the control box has gotten wet inside (which given its location is very unlikely) I can not imagine a realistic scenario that would cause its relays to change state without power being applied to the coils. Granted, I am not always as imaginative as I should be!

If you described a case where the windlass would not shut off after running, the control box is one of the first places I would look, but you said the windlass started up on its own hours (at least) after being used.  That's not a symptom of a "sticking" relay.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Patrick McAneny
 

We were anchored next to a boat in Martinique ( fortunately on the far leeward end of the anchorage ). While ashore his windlass came alive and hauled all his chain and anchor aboard . The wind pushed the boat aground , no damage , fellow sailors pulled the boat back out and re anchored it. I guess there is a lesson to be learned , it can happen .
Pat 
SM #123



-----Original Message-----
From: sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

 
Bill,

Would a sticking solenoid cause it to activate when nobody has used it recently?  The second time was in the middle of the night, so high cabin temperature would be unlikely.

Do you know if the box is sealed?  If I can open it up maybe it's repairable?

On the other hand, I probably should replace it from an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Duane


Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks Bill!

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

You can open it...4 screws.

I attached a page from my book for Amel School. 

If you checked and eliminated switches, it is the control box.

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

Would a sticking solenoid cause it to activate when nobody has used it recently?  The second time was in the middle of the night, so high cabin temperature would be unlikely.

Do you know if the box is sealed?  If I can open it up maybe it's repairable?

On the other hand, I probably should replace it from an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Salt water intrusion on forward head

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Director?


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 01:02, "rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We cram one of those ubiquitous "t-shirt" shopping bags in there with our thumb--we keep a couple up there in the anchoring gear locker, you can jam it in very firmly and it does a great job, seals all around the chain.  A slightly larger than normal one works very well. 

Bob
Director, Amel International Institute of Low Technology