Date   

Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

seafeverofcuan@...
 

Duane,
           If you haven't already done so, pull the rear casing off your windlass. Due to age of your boat you will likely find a neat pile of carbon dust from the brushes right underneath the terminals which can make a short and engage the windlass.
How do I know this????
Best Regards,
Trevor Lusty
Ireland


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Roller Furling Questions

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello everybody,

a few words about the genoa furler. I'm using shorcuts, so, feel free for more questions.

There has been several kinds of genoa furlers installed on the Maramus, Sharkis, Mangos, Santorins and Super Maramus, and until roughly 2002, their manual furling sheave was attached to the foil with aluminum rivets covered with silicone filler (mainly to avoid the possibly reamaining steel part inside the rivet to become rusty). The reason was first that it was an easy way to do it (rather than screws and inserts).
The second reason is that it had to be easily replaceable and AMEL did not change it for a long time because it was just working fine like this.
Then came the questions (from the clients) of replacing the forestay (which did not come for the first 20 years...) and yes the sheaves were very often found to be very hard to pull out the stainless steel shaft.

These rivets were not meant to be taken down as long as the sheave could be pulled out of the stainless steel shaft of the furler. But after 5 years, both parts were seized and the only way to take down the furler was to drill the rivets, and then take the furler to a machine shop to hydraulicly press the sheave out of the shaft.
So, many people drilled the rivets if they wanted to service the furler or replace the forestay. Some have replaced the rivets with alu rivets, or with monel rivets (which creates a galvanic couple with the sheave/foil made of aluminum) or with stainless steel screws, installed in stainless steel tapped inserts. This last solution was also developped by AMEL to strengthen the connection between the foil and the sheave, (to avoid the foil to shear, but at that time, using a new kind of sheave (split in two halves).

However, I'm still convinced that the aluminum rivets are strong enough for a regular use of the furler.
Of course, if you overload the furler (like furling without easing the sheets), or, even worse, if you sail without enough halyard tension, then you will overload this connection.

Sometimes, because the aluminum of the foil is too much damaged (the holes being wider) you just can't put new rivets and you need to find another solution (stainless steel inserts or shortening the tube). In that case, stainless steel screws in stainless steel inserts (inside the foil's channels) is a good solution but needs grease in order they can be easily taken down.

Hoping this will not add more confusion to this (rather) simple topic...


Have a good day.

Olivier.




On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 6:23 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


 
FYI, I don't see the need for shear at this point in the design and suspect that was the reason given originally for the choice of rivets. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 03:20, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi Craig
I too note the points re sheer. However  as you note stainless screws are being used which obviously have high sheer strength. Monel rivets sheer strength is up there with stain less and have two great advantages. No corrosion as they are inert, and ease of use. That is no drilling and tapping of threads.
Regards
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl
On 05 July 2017 at 08:47 "sangaris@...[ amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 

Hi Danny,
Then again, it may be that the Captain purposely used softer Aluminum rivets as a safety so they would sheer before anything else broke. Kind of like a sheer pin on an (older) outboard motor prop. Several o f us have posited that idea, although I don't think we've gotten a definitive reply from someone like Olivier Beaute. In any case, it seems a reasonable and conservative approach rather than harder stuff like monel and stainless steel Allen screws. (Yes, I did read the posts that Amel Matinique is using the ss Allen screws. Lots of ways to skin a cat, I guess.) 
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris 

---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com, wrote :

Hi.
If you use rivers monel are the best. Inert. That is no corrosion and very strong, Ali are  far too soft and sheer easily.
Regards
Danny
DM ,299
Ocean Pearl
On 03 July 2017 at 13:18 &#3 4;greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:

 
Mark,

Stainless screws are fine if you use something like Tefgel to isolate them.

Even if you do go with aluminum screws, use Tefgel. The difference in alloys is enough to cause trouble, and the Al screws are not strong enough to remove if there is even a trace of corrosion. Talk to anybody who head had to remove the Al screws Amel used to attach the boom tracks!

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Boston, Mass


 
 

 



Re: Mizzem mast radar cable

calbyy@...
 

I did replace radar & cables inside mast last april; did it whilst masts were laying flat on supports (replaced standing rigging). 
The radar cable on the Maramu goes into one pvc guide tube running from mast step up to spreaders; connection from below deck is thru a gooseneck on the mast support plate, going thru hull to allow pulling cables through.
Trying to pull one new cable with old cable is tricky as cables can have kinks & buckles & get stuck in awkward locations (check for Amel leaders remaining in tube as they are fastened to foam rings at even intervals to avoid cables getting tangled in tube)..
One easy safe way is to use a leader nylon line (fishing gear), fastened safely on old cable; pull cable down to junction box with leader line following track. Cut off & at bottom & secure as pulling end.
Once new scanner is fitted on support with cable plugged on, fasten end of cable to leader line & start pulling (use of talcum powder helps without leaving greasy residues); Pulling on cable coming down with own weight should prove easier (less friction) than horizontally.

Use of old cable for new radar will work only if signals wires are sufficient in number & size, & clearly identified; Best to change all for new, as you will be always in doubt about compatibility if any fault on system later (matter of warranty also).

happy days to you.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, I accidently sent the below unfinished, big fingers, small phone key pad.

See finished post below.

Danny

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 06 July 2017 at 18:58
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it myself. We've had a 1 litre bottle of the cable lube on board for 8 years.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

 

Boston, Mass


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzem mast radar cable

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,

Just to offer that if you get a product called cable lube and lather the cable with it before you pull it. It doesn't leave residual mess and it is incredible how much easier it is to lull the cable. I have been told,  in the absence of cable lube KY jelly works. Haven't tried it

myself

On 06 July 2017 at 13:00 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

 

Boston, Mass


 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all, surely you have all heard of the horror story about a sheet winch on a 54 continuing to run after the operator released it. Being used to haul the male partner up the mast. The female partner and winch operator was severely injured as was a next door helper.

Subsequent to that Joel posted how he witnessed a sheet winch on a 54 self start. Caused, I am told by a fault in the push switch. Amel have moved to Haarken as a result of a messy legal issue.

So these things. can happen. I have heard of a boat that had a halyard left on an electric winch. It was tied off to the pulpit. It self started in the owners absence and did major damage to the pulpit.

So folks, it happens, so we need to be aware and take precautions. Dont leave sheets or halyards loaded on live winches and turn off power to the windlass before leaving he boat.

I don't believe it is a brand issue, it is electrical contacts in a challenging marine enviroment

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 06 July 2017 at 12:47 "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Duane,


Unless the control box has gotten wet inside (which given its location is very unlikely) I can not imagine a realistic scenario that would cause its relays to change state without power being applied to the coils. Granted, I am not always as imaginative as I should be!

If you described a case where the windlass would not shut off after running, the control box is one of the first places I would look, but you said the windlass started up on its own hours (at least) after being used.  That's not a symptom of a "sticking" relay.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Boston, Mass

 


 


Re: Mizzem mast radar cable

Ian Park
 

Bill
I know this job is imminent for me too.
I recall a post just a couple of months back where someone replaced with a new Furuno system and was able to use the existing cabling. Furuno had adapter plugs to fit each end so it was just plug and play!

Ian.
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Alan Leslie
 

Duane, it will be that up button switch no doubt.
The fact that you say the rubber boot is broken and that you get fluky readings on the multimeter almost guarantees that its the switch.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437  


Mizzem mast radar cable

greatketch@...
 

Hello All,


After 20 years of service our venerable Furuno 1831 has gone to the great boatyard in the sky, and it is time to install our new radar.


I am just about ready to climb the mast and change out the scanner, and am hoping someone here can prevent any unpleasant surprises when it is time to pull the new cable. I found where the cable goes into the base of the mast step in the aft head.  I have found the access plate and cable at the base of the mast.


Is the cable secured in any way inside the mast?  Can I just attach the new cable and use the old one to pull it up the mast?  I know others have done this job, any suggestions to make it go smoothly would be greatly appreciated!


Bill Kinney

SM160, Harmonie

Boston, Mass



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

greatketch@...
 

Duane,

Unless the control box has gotten wet inside (which given its location is very unlikely) I can not imagine a realistic scenario that would cause its relays to change state without power being applied to the coils. Granted, I am not always as imaginative as I should be!

If you described a case where the windlass would not shut off after running, the control box is one of the first places I would look, but you said the windlass started up on its own hours (at least) after being used.  That's not a symptom of a "sticking" relay.

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Boston, Mass


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Patrick McAneny
 

We were anchored next to a boat in Martinique ( fortunately on the far leeward end of the anchorage ). While ashore his windlass came alive and hauled all his chain and anchor aboard . The wind pushed the boat aground , no damage , fellow sailors pulled the boat back out and re anchored it. I guess there is a lesson to be learned , it can happen .
Pat 
SM #123



-----Original Message-----
From: sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Wed, Jul 5, 2017 12:52 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

 
Bill,

Would a sticking solenoid cause it to activate when nobody has used it recently?  The second time was in the middle of the night, so high cabin temperature would be unlikely.

Do you know if the box is sealed?  If I can open it up maybe it's repairable?

On the other hand, I probably should replace it from an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Duane


Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks Bill!

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

You can open it...4 screws.

I attached a page from my book for Amel School. 

If you checked and eliminated switches, it is the control box.

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

Would a sticking solenoid cause it to activate when nobody has used it recently?  The second time was in the middle of the night, so high cabin temperature would be unlikely.

Do you know if the box is sealed?  If I can open it up maybe it's repairable?

On the other hand, I probably should replace it from an abundance of caution.

Thanks,
Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Salt water intrusion on forward head

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Director?


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 01:02, "rossidesigngroup@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We cram one of those ubiquitous "t-shirt" shopping bags in there with our thumb--we keep a couple up there in the anchoring gear locker, you can jam it in very firmly and it does a great job, seals all around the chain.  A slightly larger than normal one works very well. 

Bob
Director, Amel International Institute of Low Technology


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Solinoids inside the Lofranz control box are sticking. Replace the box.  


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 07:53, "sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We had the windlass energized one day when we were doing some other maintenance, and the windlass turned itself on!  At that moment we were taking a break below deck so there is no way we inadvertently turned it on.  It came on in the "up-chain" mode.  We left it on and two days later it did it again in the middle of the night.


It seems the most reasonable explanation is the "Up" button.  The switch externally is not corroded, but the rubber cover is torn so it could have gotten moisture inside it to bridge the switch.  I checked it with a multi-meter and it has a very fluky read, sometimes 5kohms button off and 23kohms button on, and sometimes "0.L" in both positions.  That would make some sense if the button was internally corroded, but in neither case was there good continuity with the button off (it had to be in that position for the winch to come on...right?)


Internally all the windlass connections have grease on them (one assumes non-conductive) and appear in great condition (no corrosion).  The down button had been replaced by Steve Leeds in early 2015.


Is there anything else that I should be checking?


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel54 ONAN Generator MDKBN Fuel Pump 149 2646

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Thanks for the plug, Porter.

Every Amel owner should do their very best to contain saltwater when opening anything with saltwater. A combination of towels and suction will keep your Amel engine room looking new. And, it is no more trouble to do things the BEST way. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 09:35, "Porter McRoberts portermcroberts@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
Mine is extremely rusty.  Purchased that way: likely prior mechanic did not use the Bill Rouse wet/dry vac/ surgical suction method for total NaCl containment.
Applied Corosion X, now unchanged and have a spare in the parts list.

Works fine however is a cosmetic issue at present.  




Porter McRoberts
S/V Ibis: Amel 54-#152
Ft. Lauderdale
www.fouribis.com
portermcroberts@...







On Jul 5, 2017, at 10:12 AM, 'Mohammad Shirloo' mshirloo@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hello Thomas;

 

As stated by others, the fuel pump should look clean, painted finish. The salt water from the raw water impeller will drip/pour over the fuel pump if preventative steps are not taken. If you do not see an active leak or evidence thereof, this would most likely explain the issue. We had the same issue when we purchased ours due to previous “mechanic’s” work. I have carefully cleaned it as best as possible and applied corrosionX to try to control the rust. (A coat of rust preventer, primer and paint may not be a bad idea).

 

I have also purchased a spare fuel pump, just in case.

 

Respectfully;


Mohammad & Aty

B&B Kokomo

Amel 54 #099

 

From: SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]
Sent: Wednesday, July 5, 2017 4:22 PM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel54 ONAN Generator MDKBN Fuel Pump 149 2646

 

 

Hello,

 

We have noticed our ONAN generator fuel pump is looking quite rusty.

Is it meant to deteriorate this way over time?

if not, do you know what might be the cause?

 

Photos here.

 

Thanks for your advice,

 

Thomas & Soraya 
-- 

GARULFO

Amel 54 #122

Cap d'Agde, France

 


<EAD676B092884B628C15FC404DEA9AAE.png>


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Roller Furling Questions

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

FYI, I don't see the need for shear at this point in the design and suspect that was the reason given originally for the choice of rivets. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jul 5, 2017 03:20, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Craig

I too note the points re sheer. However  as you note stainless screws are being used which obviously have high sheer strength. Monel rivets sheer strength is up there with stain less and have two great advantages. No corrosion as they are inert, and ease of use. That is no drilling and tapping of threads.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 05 July 2017 at 08:47 "sangaris@...[amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 


Hi Danny,
Then again, it may be that the Captain purposely used softer Aluminum rivets as a safety so they would sheer before anything else broke. Kind of like a sheer pin on an (older) outboard motor prop. Several o f us have posited that idea, although I don't think we've gotten a definitive reply from someone like Olivier Beaute. In any case, it seems a reasonable and conservative approach rather than harder stuff like monel and stainless steel Allen screws. (Yes, I did read the posts that Amel Matinique is using the ss Allen screws. Lots of ways to skin a cat, I guess.) 
Cheers,
Craig Briggs, SN#68 Sangaris 

---In amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com, wrote :

Hi.

If you use rivers monel are the best. Inert. That is no corrosion and very strong, Ali are  far too soft and sheer easily.

Regards

Danny

DM ,299

Ocean Pearl

On 03 July 2017 at 13:18 &#3 4;greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Mark,

Stainless screws are fine if you use something like Tefgel to isolate them.

Even if you do go with aluminum screws, use Tefgel. The difference in alloys is enough to cause trouble, and the Al screws are not strong enough to remove if there is even a trace of corrosion. Talk to anybody who head had to remove the Al screws Amel used to attach the boom tracks!

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Boston, Mass


 

 


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intrusion on forward head

Mike Ondra
 

I have found that Plastilina Modeling Clay works great for sealing around the chain. Can be molded right into the hole and around the chain links. Seems to be completely waterproof and stays nicely in place for an indefinite period of time. Easy to remove and reuse for the next passage. And if forgotten about when lowering the anchor simply pulls out with the anchor chain.

 

Mike Ondra

ALETES  SM#240

Rock Hall, MD

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, July 04, 2017 12:13 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Salt water intrusion on forward head

 

 

When sailing in rough weather with the wind in from starboard, the water that find its way in through the chain locker and then going down to the bilge. Some of that goes back into the forward head shower drain. Is it something like a one way valve missing? The hose going from the shower are connected directly with the anchor locker drain by a y connection only. We are thinking of installing a one way valve. are we alone experience this?



Paul on SY Kerpa SM #250. still on the hard in Chesapeake bay


Re: Lofrans Tigres windlass turns itself on

greatketch@...
 

This can be scary!  What might have happened if you were anchored and away from the boat when the windless "decided" to pull up the anchor?  I always depower the anchor windlass motor when sailing or while at anchor. NOT just the relay control circuit, but the actual motor power circuit.  I want no possibility of this kind of failure while I am underway or anchored. To do that on a SM requires some wiring rework: https://fetchinketch.net/boat-projects/windlass-wiring/

Duane,

If the rubber cover is torn on the windlass mounted switch it needs to be replaced, it is not optional. You're resistance reading indicate it is bad. No matter it it tests good or not, that is a failure you can not live with.  A drop of salt water in there will turn on your windlass.  That cover not only keeps water out of the switch, but the back of the switch is not sealed, so water can then get on the windlass motor itself. If you keep those rubber button switches, the covers need to be a routine maintenance item, they have a finite life time in the sun.

The only other simple failure I can think of would be the cockpit switch. Of course a possibility, but a remote one, is a wire connector has come adrift somewhere and created an intermittent short. There are other possibilities, but they get pretty unlikely. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Boston, Mass




---In amelyachtowners@..., <sailor63109@...> wrote :

We had the windlass energized one day when we were doing some other maintenance, and the windlass turned itself on!  At that moment we were taking a break below deck so there is no way we inadvertently turned it on.  It came on in the "up-chain" mode.  We left it on and two days later it did it again in the middle of the night.


It seems the most reasonable explanation is the "Up" button.  The switch externally is not corroded, but the rubber cover is torn so it could have gotten moisture inside it to bridge the switch.  I checked it with a multi-meter and it has a very fluky read, sometimes 5kohms button off and 23kohms button on, and sometimes "0.L" in both positions.  That would make some sense if the button was internally corroded, but in neither case was there good continuity with the button off (it had to be in that position for the winch to come on...right?)


Internally all the windlass connections have grease on them (one assumes non-conductive) and appear in great condition (no corrosion).  The down button had been replaced by Steve Leeds in early 2015.


Is there anything else that I should be checking?


Duane

Wanderer, SM#477