Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

It may depend on the brand, and frankly, I do not remember, except that I believe it turns one-quarter turn...try a YouTube search for "water heater heating element replacement."

I am sure that you will find one similar to yours.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Nov 28, 2016 10:05 AM, "svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Many thanks for all the advice... so, the heating element... it is a giant bolt, right?  The largest I have is a 38mm and it is far too small!  


Remove by turning counterclockwise, I suppose?

Thanks again!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Many thanks for all the advice... so, the heating element... it is a giant bolt, right?  The largest I have is a 38mm and it is far too small!  

Remove by turning counterclockwise, I suppose?

Thanks again!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Ian, that is an important comment. If you buy the element at a marine store, it could be hundreds of dollars/euros.

However, if you buy the element at a plumbing supply shop, it will be less than a hundred dollars/euros.

The first time I replaced mine I bought it at a marine store and paid hundreds. The second time I replaced it, I was in the Manoel Island Shipyard and they replaced it for 130 euro including labor. The element they sourced did not come with a gasket. They tried to use the old one, but it leaked. They had to repeat the installation process, fabricating a new gasket by cutting one out of gasket material. By the way, this is a GREAT yard.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Nov 28, 2016 7:46 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Agree. Your heating element is burned out and short circuiting. Empty the tank, remove and replace. They are only domestic items so shoulder be cheap.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

Ian Park
 

Agree. Your heating element is burned out and short circuiting. Empty the tank, remove and replace. They are only domestic items so shoulder be cheap.

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

karkauai
 

Hi Peregrinus,
The RCDs protect against a ground fault, not an overcurrent situation.  Even a small current going to ground will trip the RCDs.  It is most likely your heating element in the water heater, but could also be the thermostat.  I guess there could also be a fault in the wiring to the water heater, but that's unlikely.

I'm not an electrician, but here's how I was told to troubleshoot:

I have a Quick Nautical Boiler.   Check both the thermostat and heating element for continuity between the line and ground, and between neutral and ground.  If you find any connection, thats the culprit.

If it were an overcurrent problem and tripped the breaker, you would check the resistance between line and neutral on both the thermostat and the element.  On my Quick Boiler, the heating element should show ~40 Ohms.  Sorry, I don't remember what the thermostat should show.  If it differed significantly from your new spare thermostat or heating element, that's your culprit.

Hope that makes sense, please correct me if I've got something wrong here.

Kent
Kristy
SM243
Panama


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Francisco,

Your electric heating element inside  the water heater has developed pin holes. Water enters the pin holes and causes a ground fault. The element needs replacing. Be sure to get a new element gasket when you get the element, or material to make a gasket.

You do not need to remove the water heater. Turn off the fresh water and open a tap to bleed the pressure. When you remove the element about 20 liters of water will come out and will drain to the gray water sump. I suggest that you use a wet-vac to vacuum the rest of the water out. It is also normal to see some rusty water. Do not be surprised if you find some pieces of plastic wire ties. I am told the manufacturer uses these wire ties in the assembly, although it seems strange for them to be there. I have seen this several times.  These elements have a life of about 5-7 years.

Let me know if you need more information.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Nov 28, 2016 6:09 AM, "Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Peregrinus,


I had the same symptoms when the heating element burnt out.  I suggest you start with this.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM 007
Lanzarote


On 28 Nov 2016, at 10:04, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hello, this morning when I turned on the water heater, the boat immediately lost 220V power.  When one depresses the 220V panel water heater, two things happen at the same time:


1.  The RCD device at the dock kills power to all 4 boats that use the same column.

2.  The RCD device we installed in the engine room for all incoming shore power also triggers at the same time.


None of the above happens when power is re-enabled and consumers are turned on, except if one again turns on the water heater.


No actual breakers inside nor outside the boat are triggered.  For example, the dock-side 10A breaker does not trigger.  Only the RCD device protecting all 4 breakers for all 4 boats.


What do you think?  Thanks in advance,


Peregrinus

SM2K No. 350 (2002)

Compagnia della Vela, Venice





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Peregrinus,

I had the same symptoms when the heating element burnt out.  I suggest you start with this.

Fair winds,

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM 007
Lanzarote


On 28 Nov 2016, at 10:04, svperegrinus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello, this morning when I turned on the water heater, the boat immediately lost 220V power.  When one depresses the 220V panel water heater, two things happen at the same time:


1.  The RCD device at the dock kills power to all 4 boats that use the same column.

2.  The RCD device we installed in the engine room for all incoming shore power also triggers at the same time.


None of the above happens when power is re-enabled and consumers are turned on, except if one again turns on the water heater.


No actual breakers inside nor outside the boat are triggered.  For example, the dock-side 10A breaker does not trigger.  Only the RCD device protecting all 4 breakers for all 4 boats.


What do you think?  Thanks in advance,


Peregrinus

SM2K No. 350 (2002)

Compagnia della Vela, Venice



Jean-Pierre Germain,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...


Two RCD devices triggered simultaneously

svperegrinus@yahoo.com
 

Hello, this morning when I turned on the water heater, the boat immediately lost 220V power.  When one depresses the 220V panel water heater, two things happen at the same time:


1.  The RCD device at the dock kills power to all 4 boats that use the same column.

2.  The RCD device we installed in the engine room for all incoming shore power also triggers at the same time.


None of the above happens when power is re-enabled and consumers are turned on, except if one again turns on the water heater.


No actual breakers inside nor outside the boat are triggered.  For example, the dock-side 10A breaker does not trigger.  Only the RCD device protecting all 4 breakers for all 4 boats.


What do you think?  Thanks in advance,


Peregrinus

SM2K No. 350 (2002)

Compagnia della Vela, Venice


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

Alan Leslie
 

Leroy Somer tell me that the MVA gearbox was originally filled with Shell Tivela A

Shell Tivela Compound A is a synthetic, semifluid gear lubricant. It was developed in co-operation with major gear manufacturers to meet the demand for high quality, long life gear lubricants. Shell Tivela Compound A consists of a synthetic base oil blended with a controlled quantity of highly stable lithium soap and special additives to give outstanding lubrication performance


According to the Shell website Tivela A has been replaced by  shell gadus s5 v142w 00 
which seems to have the same specification.

These are both synthetic oils with lithium soap.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

True Allan. However oil is always more of a challenge to seals than grease, in some situations in my former life  I have added grease to oil in a gearbox to solve habitual leakage. The lithium grease I use is quite light so I expect it would tend to stay where needed. As to lubricated for life. The absence of lube points in the original could suggest the same, obviously not so.

Cheers
Danny
SM 299
Ocean Pearl


On Mon, Nov 28, 2016 at 18:48, divanz620@... [amelyachtowners]
wrote:
 

It seems reasonable that IF you put a grease nipple on the gearbox, you need another hole to let out the old grease, otherwise you'll blow the seals
Seems to me though  that using grease is always going to result in the same issue.
The grease gets thrown away from the gears as they rotate....
Also seems to me that the box would be better off filled with SAE90 gear oil, that way the gears would always be lubricated.
I note that the last gearbox that I got from Leroy Somer had on the name plate "lubricated for life". I assume that is because it is filled with oil?
I haven't taken it apart to check, but it wouldn't be difficult.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
sur la terre


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

Alan Leslie
 

It seems reasonable that IF you put a grease nipple on the gearbox, you need another hole to let out the old grease, otherwise you'll blow the seals
Seems to me though  that using grease is always going to result in the same issue.
The grease gets thrown away from the gears as they rotate....
Also seems to me that the box would be better off filled with SAE90 gear oil, that way the gears would always be lubricated.
I note that the last gearbox that I got from Leroy Somer had on the name plate "lubricated for life". I assume that is because it is filled with oil?
I haven't taken it apart to check, but it wouldn't be difficult.
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437
sur la terre


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

James Alton
 

Danny,

   Ok thanks.  I like the plan of using the Lithium since it does not stain the sails too bad if it gets out.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 27, 2016, at 2:57 PM, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hi James, no I don't. I use a lithium grease, and use the same all the time. The original grease in my gearboxes was completely solid so I cleaned it out.. So mixing wasn't an issue. The box I did in situ until I had time to dismantle it was fine as the old grease was solid round the edges and the new grease was where it matters
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
To: amelyachtowners@... 
Sent: Monday, 28 November 2016 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

 
Danny,

The suggested upgrade of adding grease nipples to the furler gear boxes sounds like a great idea to me. I am planning to take care of this the next time that I am at the boat.   I know that some types of grease do not mix well.  Do you by chance know what type of grease is best to use in these gearboxes based on what was in there originally?

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Sardinia





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi James, no I don't. I use a lithium grease, and use the same all the time. The original grease in my gearboxes was completely solid so I cleaned it out.. So mixing wasn't an issue. The box I did in situ until I had time to dismantle it was fine as the old grease was solid round the edges and the new grease was where it matters
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Monday, 28 November 2016 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

 
Danny,

The suggested upgrade of adding grease nipples to the furler gear boxes sounds like a great idea to me. I am planning to take care of this the next time that I am at the boat.   I know that some types of grease do not mix well.  Do you by chance know what type of grease is best to use in these gearboxes based on what was in there originally?

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Sardinia



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

James Alton
 

Danny,

The suggested upgrade of adding grease nipples to the furler gear boxes sounds like a great idea to me. I am planning to take care of this the next time that I am at the boat.   I know that some types of grease do not mix well.  Do you by chance know what type of grease is best to use in these gearboxes based on what was in there originally?

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Sardinia


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

David,

I write this email with a "heavy heart" because as a new owner of a Super Maramu, you have had one of the worst experiences that I know of. I am certain that you will leave this experience in your wake as your Super Maramu takes you to some amazing places in the world.

That said, I have to say the following because I also am pissed off. Your "expert mechanic" is somebody who thinks he is really smart, claims to know Amels, and is a member of this group, even though he does not own an Amel. He has again screwed things up for another Amel owner...this time it was your turn.

He has supplied you with a wear bushing that was made by someone other than Amel. While attempting to remove the 3 lip seals, he has scored/scratched the inner wall of the cavity that the outside of the lip seals "seal-to," and amazingly scored/scratched the roller bearing.

The cavity walls should be completely smooth and coated with waterproof grease before you begin to press the seals in place. I use emory cloth to clean the cavity wall each time I do the job, but, all I am removing is salt residue and debris. Hopefully the team at Amel Martinique will have a solution for the extremely poor installation attempt made by this extremely poor excuse of an Amel mechanic. 

Everyone,

I will not post the name of the person who performed this work for David, but if anyone wants to know who this person is, write me at svbebe"at"gmail.com. In my opinion, he should be avoided in the brokerage of Amels and the maintenance of Amels. I am sure that some will differ with my opinion, and my opinion could be wrong.

I am not sure why anyone would buy a wear bushing from any source other than Amel. It is 149.80 euros from France and 30% more if you pick it up at Amel Martinique. We all are going to find reason to order from Amel and we all should have on hand at least 1 set of everything needed for wear bushing service and bow thruster service. I normally have 2-3 sets. Plan your parts orders so that they are less frequent and you will save on shipping costs.

Does Amel make a profit on these parts? I certainly hope so and I hope that it is enough profit and enough of us order from them so that they will continue supplying parts for as long as we own our boats. Everyone, please consider this when you look to save a few bucks!

Best,

Bill
BeBe 387
Currently St. John USVI





On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 4:18 PM, David Vogel dbv_au@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks Ric - I'll keep that in mind if this attempt doesn't work out OK.




Have you tried the highest rated email app?
With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main, Genoa furlet Grease

eric freedman
 

Ben,

The outhaul shaft can be a nightmare.

Check it out as soon as possible.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Sunday, November 27, 2016 6:33 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Main, Genoa furlet Grease

 

 

Thanks Eric.  Had not considered the  outhaul shaft before.  Good advise.  

Ben Driver

La Bella Vita

SM #347


On Nov 26, 2016, at 2:37 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi Ben,

I installed small nylon bolts on each gearbox and the Main furler and outhaul .

On the gearboxes I drilled and tapped them on either sided.

One high and one low. I pump grease into the gearbox on the low side and when it comes out clean I stop.

I use the grease gun adapter for the Autoprop to insert the grease.

I chose the small nylon bolts over the grease nipples as I could see the grease flowing out of the gearbox , and in addition I do not have any corrosion problems.

 

With the genoa the holes are on the same side (port)  and if you look at a drawing of the gearbox you will see

Where to put the holes. I do this twice yearly.

 

In addition I remove the outhaul shaft and coat it with high temperature waterproof Neva-Seize grease.

I do this twice yearly.

The outhaul shaft is especially important as if it gets stuck it is a royal pain to get out.

I also sanded down the outhaul key on the shaft a few thousands of an inch.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2016 3:00 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

 

 

Hi Ben,

soon after we bought Ocean Pearl (8 years old) we had horrible screeching from the furler. Anyone in the cabin when it was activated jumped in fright at the noise. I investigated and found the grease in the gearbox had gone hard and was at the peripheries and not on the gears. Like you I found no lubrication system. I pioneered putting grease nipples in the side of all three furler gearboxes, main furler, outhaul and genoa furler. This can be done in situ with care. I put grease nipples in. Others have put removable plugs. Either works and I regularly add a few pumps of grease. End of problem. I did a post at the time with details and photos.

If you want details of how to do it in situ let me know and I will give details. It is not difficult. However some time it would pay to dismantle the gearbox to remove the old grease. Another furler noise problem. I had high pitched noise this year from the genoa furler. I had the fore stay down for another reason and took the opportunity to recoat the forestay liberally with grease ala Amel. No more noise. So simple. I used a full grease cartridge. Logically we should expect to do this periodically as the grease will not last forever.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

 


From: amelliahona <no_reply@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Saturday, 26 November 2016 4:16 AM
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Potential Main furler problem

 

 

Hi Ben:  

 

When my SM #335  was 2 years old (now 13 years ago), my main sail furling gearbox did the same thing.  It turned out to be a broken shaft on the motor.  I can only assume that misalignment caused flexing loads on the shaft and it broke cleaning through.  The rough ends of the shaft inter-digitated enough that the drive still worked but a a slower than usual speed and with loud metal-on-metal screeching.  I wasn't there for the replacement as I was in Ft. Lauderdale at the the time but Joel's maintenance tech at the time, Ray Eaton  who is now deceased, took care of the replacement motor for me.  I recall that he said it was the first time he had seen that failure mode.  

 

Wish you all the best Ben. 

 

Sincerely, 

 

Gary S. Silver

s/v Liahona,  Amel SM #335   July 1, 2001,  Puerto Del Rey Marina , Puerto Rico

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

SV Perigee
 

Thanks Ric - I'll keep that in mind if this attempt doesn't work out OK.




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With 4.5 stars in iTunes, the Yahoo Mail app is the highest rated email app on the market. What are you waiting for? Now you can access all your inboxes (Gmail, Outlook, AOL and more) in one place. Never delete an email again with 1000GB of free cloud storage.


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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G 213 Masthead Unit

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Thanks for the info Bill !

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Sun, 11/27/16, yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] B&G 213 Masthead Unit
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Sunday, November 27, 2016, 8:40 AM


 









Recently I lost some parts to the B&G
213 Masthead Unit. Fortunately another owner (Pat -
Shenanigans) had the parts I needed because he had recently
replaced all of his electronics including the B&G 213 Masthead Unit.
During the process of removing and inspecting
my B&G 213 Masthead Unit, I stripped the male threads on
the Masthead Mounting Bracket with the metal female securing
nut on the Masthead Unit. I remembered hearing about another
owner doing this same thing. I remembered that he had to
replace the Masthead Mounting Bracket and the attached wire
which runs through the mast. So I was prepared to do this
also.

Then, fortunately,
included in what Pat (Shenanigans) sent me I found a black
plastic threaded sleeve. I had no idea what it was, but
began looking at everything I had and realized that the
threaded part on the Masthead Mounting Bracket was actually
that sleeve and it unscrewed from the Mounting Bracket. I
assume that B&G realized that "things happen"
on a boat.

So bringing a
long story to a conclusion, now all I have to do to solve my
cross-thread issue is change the sleeve which screws onto
the Masthead Mounting Bracket and replace the 213 Masthead
Unit with one that is a combination of what I had and what
Pat sent me.

I am
attempting to upload a photo to the Album named "B
& G Mast Head Wind Instruments." Unfortunately, I
have had no luck uploading photos this week...probably a
problem with Yahoo! However, you should look at this entire
album. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1976709260

I hope this saves someone some
bacon.

BillBeBe 387Currently
St. John, USVI


B&G 213 Masthead Unit

yahoogroups@...
 

Recently I lost some parts to the B&G 213 Masthead Unit. Fortunately another owner (Pat - Shenanigans) had the parts I needed because he had recently replaced all of his electronics including the B&G 213 Masthead Unit.


During the process of removing and inspecting my B&G 213 Masthead Unit, I stripped the male threads on the Masthead Mounting Bracket with the metal female securing nut on the Masthead Unit. I remembered hearing about another owner doing this same thing. I remembered that he had to replace the Masthead Mounting Bracket and the attached wire which runs through the mast. So I was prepared to do this also.

Then, fortunately, included in what Pat (Shenanigans) sent me I found a black plastic threaded sleeve. I had no idea what it was, but began looking at everything I had and realized that the threaded part on the Masthead Mounting Bracket was actually that sleeve and it unscrewed from the Mounting Bracket. I assume that B&G realized that "things happen" on a boat.

So bringing a long story to a conclusion, now all I have to do to solve my cross-thread issue is change the sleeve which screws onto the Masthead Mounting Bracket and replace the 213 Masthead Unit with one that is a combination of what I had and what Pat sent me.

I am attempting to upload a photo to the Album named "B & G Mast Head Wind Instruments." Unfortunately, I have had no luck uploading photos this week...probably a problem with Yahoo! However, you should look at this entire album. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1976709260

I hope this saves someone some bacon.

Bill

BeBe 387

Currently St. John, USVI

 


B&G 213 Masthead Unit

yahoogroups@...
 

Recently I lost some parts to the B&G 213 Masthead Unit. Fortunately another owner (Pat - Shenanigans) had the parts I needed because he had recently replaced all of his electronics including the B&G 213 Masthead Unit.


During the process of removing and inspecting my B&G 213 Masthead Unit, I stripped the male threads on the Masthead Mounting Bracket with the metal female securing nut on the Masthead Unit. I remembered hearing about another owner doing this same thing. I remembered that he had to replace the Masthead Mounting Bracket and the attached wire which runs through the mast. So I was prepared to do this also.

Then, fortunately, included in what Pat (Shenanigans) sent me I found a black plastic threaded sleeve. I had no idea what it was, but began looking at everything I had and realized that the threaded part on the Masthead Mounting Bracket was actually that sleeve and it unscrewed from the Mounting Bracket. I assume that B&G realized that "things happen" on a boat.

So bringing a long story to a conclusion, now all I have to do to solve my cross-thread issue is change the sleeve which screws onto the Masthead Mounting Bracket and replace the 213 Masthead Unit with one that is a combination of what I had and what Pat sent me.

I am attempting to upload a photo to the Album named "B & G Mast Head Wind Instruments." Unfortunately, I have had no luck uploading photos this week...probably a problem with Yahoo! However, you should look at this entire album. https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/amelyachtowners/photos/albums/1976709260

I hope this saves someone some bacon.

Bill

BeBe 387

Currently St. John, USVI