Date   

Re: Air Conditioning in a Santorin

jim kennedy <jandrkennedy@...>
 

Ian, thank you for taking the time to reply - some real gems in this answer - and also Ric.

best regards

Jim


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Ian Park
 

James
I always sit with my feet in the bow locker when hoisting the ballooner. Hoisting is not a problem. The only issue I see is what you do with 13m + of spare halliard once the ballooner is hoisted. It would have to be coiled up and stored, but would also have to rotate as the foil swivels. There's a lot to catch a loose rope end on the deck there. A continuous loop halliard could work, but would need non stretch rope and have to be kept in place with some sort of jammer.
Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

James Alton
 

Ian,
   We  had 40 plus knots on a broad reach this season due a squeeze between Isladora and the mainland that was not expected.  We had what was left of the original 150 up deeply reefed part of the main and a bit of the mizzen.  The genoa was a horrible shape but the boat was regularly breaking 9 knots and over 10  a couple of times.  You make a good point..off the wind an ugly sail works about as good as one that is nicely shaped. Maybe you are also making a subtle suggestion as well to not reduce the weight of the cloth in the 150 to be prepared for the unexpected?  I am still pondering that question.
   Can you think of a reason that a halyard lifting from the furler head could not be used to hoist the balloner?  The objective would be to allow both downwind sails to be rolled as without lowering the Ballooner.
Best,
James Alton
SV Sueno, Maramu #220
Arbatax, Italy


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 11-17-2016 11:16 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails


 

James
Re heavy weather sailing, while we still had the 150% Genoa we encountered F8/9 crossing Biscay and west coast of Scotland. The Genoa reefed would not have helped sailing very close to the wind, but just using the mizzen and half furled Genoa the boat was easily manageable and very comfortable heading upwind. The advantage of a ketch rig!

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Ian Park
 

James
Re heavy weather sailing, while we still had the 150% Genoa we encountered F8/9 crossing Biscay and west coast of Scotland. The Genoa reefed would not have helped sailing very close to the wind, but just using the mizzen and half furled Genoa the boat was easily manageable and very comfortable heading upwind. The advantage of a ketch rig!

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] What to do with the hole...

James Studdart
 

Hi Bill,
Any chance you could put a photo of those traps online? We've had both the odd sound in the pipe (when the generator is running for us) and wind blowing through and into the heads. I would love to solve both once and for all.

Cheers,
James
SeaBean SM344
Cape Verde


On Thu, Nov 17, 2016 at 11:18 AM Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

For those of you having problems with noises from a P79 in-hull transducer…  have you checked to be sure that the level of the propylene glycol in the housing is sufficient?  My transducer does make audible sound when it is in my hand, but that goes away completely when it is in the housing and submerged in the glycol.  

Also, on the drain noises in the forward head: The former owners of Harmonie fixed that as a side effect of fixing another issue with the drains.  They noticed that when the wind blew the right way, it blew into the passive engine room vent, and ended up pushing odors from the engine room and bilge sump back up into the heads.  They fixed it by fabricating simple traps from three elbows where the drains dumped into the bilge sump.  No more bilge stink in the head no matter the wind direction.  The same installation also keeps the drain lines from “gurgling” with small pressure changes or boat movements.

A minor, and completely reversible, tweak to the Amel installation that we have not seen any downside to.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie

Fort Lauderdale, FL

“Ships and men rot in port."


On Nov 16, 2016, at 06:39, 'Herbert Lackner' herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Kent,  we have also the noise from the greywater sink in the foreward head, but only when motoring at a certain RPM. When we got the boat I was looking for a pump that „runs dry“ but could of course not find one…, then we found out that it is just a special frequency that starts the noise,  small amount of water stops it immediately...

  

The P79 sound is not very loud, at the beginning I could hardly hear it. But is is like this drop of water that falls on the head every minute – when you start to hear it you are waiting for the next tick and that drives me crazy J

It gets louder when in deep water (frequency change) and more silent in shallow waters.  There is absolutely no sound from the two echo sounders that I have in „Through hulls“, the B&G and the DST800 that I use.  

 

Unfortunately there is no switch for turning the P79 on or off and it is stated in the documentation that it must not be disconnected/connected from the plotter when the plotter is powered on – so diconneting/connecting requires plotter Off/On.  That is the reason why I disconnected it and have it only as a redundancy system (number 3 J).  But maybe I find a way to isolate it then I will leave  it on and watch the fishfinder Screen until a fish pops up 

 

Herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, still on the hard in Trinidad but in the water again in two weeks




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

James,

For a downwind rig without the $$$$ of a new foil, talk to Dave at Island Planet Sails.  He has suggested a pair of nylon ballooners on a rolling rope luff that would sheet through the double wisher poles.  I don’t know if he has actually built one, but it might be worth exploring.

It sounds like it would be easier to set and do everything the standard Amel rig does… except…  I doubt it would be usable partially reefed.  But might be worth investigating.

Poled out twin jibs have ben used by tradewind passagemakers long before Amel started putting them on their boats.  There are lots of ways to skin this cat. Amel's innovation was to make it easy to set the reef the sails and handle really big whisker poles.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 17, 2016, at 07:41, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Ian, Linda and the many others that responded to my questions about new sails..


   Thanks to all for the great input.  After sleeping on all of the information, I find myself drawn back to the original design concept of a 150 Genoa,  it just makes a lot of sense.  It just seems like the go to sail  the planned downwind passages using the twin poles along with a ballooner.  The addition of foam or some other bulking material to the luff to enhance the reefing qualities makes a lot of sense.  I have seen the permanent creases due to stretching that are apparently caused by rolling a shaped sail onto a straight extrusion and then loading that sail.  I don’t see how the 150 would be a good choice reefed as a storm sail and I would like to have aboard a smaller nicely shaped easy to tack jib for windward sailing and higher winds that would be more suitable as a storm sail. So it seems that I will just need to make some room to store one of these sails while the other is in use.  I wonder if by using the Hydranet if the 150 can be made a bit lighter so as to be easier to change with the understanding that the heavier smaller 100-120 would replace it for the expected parts of the trip where the winds will be strong?  Yes, there would be times when sailing through an acceleration zone etc. where I might be caught with the 150 in too much wind so I would need to be careful to not make the sail too light. A lot of the weight of my old 150 seemed to be in the sun cover.  Are there lighter UV covers available?

   I have a question about running twin sails on my Maramu using the twin slot extrusion.  It concerns me a lot having the need to lower the ballooner to furl due to the possible need to quickly turn the boat back upwind…  The concept of being able to furl both the 150 and the Ballooner seems worthy of adding to the boat from a safety standpoint if nothing else.  I was wondering if anyone has ever used a halyard running from the furler head to the furler tack attachment to hoist the ballooner and whether this work in lieu of the snap ratchet upgrade?  I am envisioning a continuous halyard line of small diameter using a small block at each end(high strength Spectra perhaps) that would roll up with the two sails.  The ballooner is so light and easy to raise on my boat that I don’t see why this could not work but what do you think?   The only other option seems to be to hoist both sails together on the same halyard which would be a mess dropping both at the same time, probably as the wind is coming up…  

   Ian and Linda,  Yes, I have seen the Santorins and think that they are lovely boats!  From a distance it is sometimes hard for me to tell them from a SM.  It is interesting to look at the various designs and to see the evolution of these boats.  

Best,

James  Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy


On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James
The Santorin is a scaled down SM minus some kit because it has less room eg gen set, freezer, washing machine etc....
So the rig is identical including the triple groove foil and furler with the snap ratchet for the ballooner.

The foam luff... Because of the 'shaped' cut of the Genoa, when it furls the centre section does not wrap as tightly as the top and bottom. So the centre bulges more, leaves creases across the sail and does not drive as efficiently.
Three strips of foam padding(in gradually shorter lengths) are stitched in down the luff. As the sail furls this new 'bulge' gathers more of the centre of the sail giving a better shape that drives better in stronger winds.

As Bill says, it's an omission that should be corrected.

Ian and Linda

'Ocean Hobo' SN96





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

James Alton
 

Ian, Linda and the many others that responded to my questions about new sails..

   Thanks to all for the great input.  After sleeping on all of the information, I find myself drawn back to the original design concept of a 150 Genoa,  it just makes a lot of sense.  It just seems like the go to sail  the planned downwind passages using the twin poles along with a ballooner.  The addition of foam or some other bulking material to the luff to enhance the reefing qualities makes a lot of sense.  I have seen the permanent creases due to stretching that are apparently caused by rolling a shaped sail onto a straight extrusion and then loading that sail.  I don’t see how the 150 would be a good choice reefed as a storm sail and I would like to have aboard a smaller nicely shaped easy to tack jib for windward sailing and higher winds that would be more suitable as a storm sail. So it seems that I will just need to make some room to store one of these sails while the other is in use.  I wonder if by using the Hydranet if the 150 can be made a bit lighter so as to be easier to change with the understanding that the heavier smaller 100-120 would replace it for the expected parts of the trip where the winds will be strong?  Yes, there would be times when sailing through an acceleration zone etc. where I might be caught with the 150 in too much wind so I would need to be careful to not make the sail too light. A lot of the weight of my old 150 seemed to be in the sun cover.  Are there lighter UV covers available?

   I have a question about running twin sails on my Maramu using the twin slot extrusion.  It concerns me a lot having the need to lower the ballooner to furl due to the possible need to quickly turn the boat back upwind…  The concept of being able to furl both the 150 and the Ballooner seems worthy of adding to the boat from a safety standpoint if nothing else.  I was wondering if anyone has ever used a halyard running from the furler head to the furler tack attachment to hoist the ballooner and whether this work in lieu of the snap ratchet upgrade?  I am envisioning a continuous halyard line of small diameter using a small block at each end(high strength Spectra perhaps) that would roll up with the two sails.  The ballooner is so light and easy to raise on my boat that I don’t see why this could not work but what do you think?   The only other option seems to be to hoist both sails together on the same halyard which would be a mess dropping both at the same time, probably as the wind is coming up…  

   Ian and Linda,  Yes, I have seen the Santorins and think that they are lovely boats!  From a distance it is sometimes hard for me to tell them from a SM.  It is interesting to look at the various designs and to see the evolution of these boats.  

Best,

James  Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy


On Nov 17, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James
The Santorin is a scaled down SM minus some kit because it has less room eg gen set, freezer, washing machine etc....
So the rig is identical including the triple groove foil and furler with the snap ratchet for the ballooner.

The foam luff... Because of the 'shaped' cut of the Genoa, when it furls the centre section does not wrap as tightly as the top and bottom. So the centre bulges more, leaves creases across the sail and does not drive as efficiently.
Three strips of foam padding(in gradually shorter lengths) are stitched in down the luff. As the sail furls this new 'bulge' gathers more of the centre of the sail giving a better shape that drives better in stronger winds.

As Bill says, it's an omission that should be corrected.

Ian and Linda

'Ocean Hobo' SN96



Sonar Noise and Bilge smell and Noise in the Heads

karkauai
 

NICE!  That's one I'll do, for sure!  Thanks Bill!!

Kent
Kristy SM243
Panama

From Bill Kinney
 

For those of you having problems with noises from a P79 in-hull transducer…  have you checked to be sure that the level of the propylene glycol in the housing is sufficient?  My transducer does make audible sound when it is in my hand, but that goes away completely when it is in the housing and submerged in the glycol.  

Also, on the drain noises in the forward head: The former owners of Harmonie fixed that as a side effect of fixing another issue with the drains.  They noticed that when the wind blew the right way, it blew into the passive engine room vent, and ended up pushing odors from the engine room and bilge sump back up into the heads.  They fixed it by fabricating simple traps from three elbows where the drains dumped into the bilge sump.  No more bilge stink in the head no matter the wind direction.  The same installation also keeps the drain lines from “gurgling” with small pressure changes or boat movements.

A minor, and completely reversible, tweak to the Amel installation that we have not seen any downside to.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] What to do with the hole...

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

For those of you having problems with noises from a P79 in-hull transducer…  have you checked to be sure that the level of the propylene glycol in the housing is sufficient?  My transducer does make audible sound when it is in my hand, but that goes away completely when it is in the housing and submerged in the glycol.  

Also, on the drain noises in the forward head: The former owners of Harmonie fixed that as a side effect of fixing another issue with the drains.  They noticed that when the wind blew the right way, it blew into the passive engine room vent, and ended up pushing odors from the engine room and bilge sump back up into the heads.  They fixed it by fabricating simple traps from three elbows where the drains dumped into the bilge sump.  No more bilge stink in the head no matter the wind direction.  The same installation also keeps the drain lines from “gurgling” with small pressure changes or boat movements.

A minor, and completely reversible, tweak to the Amel installation that we have not seen any downside to.

Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 16, 2016, at 06:39, 'Herbert Lackner' herbert@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Kent,  we have also the noise from the greywater sink in the foreward head, but only when motoring at a certain RPM. When we got the boat I was looking for a pump that „runs dry“ but could of course not find one…, then we found out that it is just a special frequency that starts the noise,  small amount of water stops it immediately...

  

The P79 sound is not very loud, at the beginning I could hardly hear it. But is is like this drop of water that falls on the head every minute – when you start to hear it you are waiting for the next tick and that drives me crazy J

It gets louder when in deep water (frequency change) and more silent in shallow waters.  There is absolutely no sound from the two echo sounders that I have in „Through hulls“, the B&G and the DST800 that I use.  

 

Unfortunately there is no switch for turning the P79 on or off and it is stated in the documentation that it must not be disconnected/connected from the plotter when the plotter is powered on – so diconneting/connecting requires plotter Off/On.  That is the reason why I disconnected it and have it only as a redundancy system (number 3 J).  But maybe I find a way to isolate it then I will leave  it on and watch the fishfinder Screen until a fish pops up 

 

Herbert

KALI MERA, SN120, still on the hard in Trinidad but in the water again in two weeks




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Jean-Pierre, James, Mark
Looking forward to meet all of you!

Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11/17/16, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2016, 3:38 AM


 









Hi Gang,
We lesave Lanzarote 2-3 Dec to
Guadeloupe.  We expect to be in BVI late Jan.
Jean-Pierre GermainEleuthera, SM007Lanzarote.

On 17 Nov 2016, at 08:10, James
Studdart james.studdart@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 




Us too... We are heading to the
BVI via Antigua from Cape Verde, probably leaving this
weekend. We'd be very happy to meet up!

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean SM344
On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 at
22:06, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 







We
should also be in the neighborhood by then.   With best regards, Mark Super Maramu 2000Hull #275www.creampuff.usCurrently
cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season – STILL  From: amelyachtowners@...
[mailto:amelyachtowners@...]

Sent: Wednesday, November
16, 2016 5:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht
Owners] Other Amel in BVI?

   Hello Bill,
I will still be there!
Looking forward
to meet you!

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed,
11/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re:
[Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday,
November 16, 2016, 4:18 PM


 









Alexandre,
We’ll be headed your way
once
we get
work done here in Florida.  We might even get there
by January!

Bill KinneySM
#160, HarmonieFort Lauderdale, FL“Ships and men rot in
port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Nov 16, 2016, at 17:09,
Alexandre Uster
von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
One of my
neighbors just told
me, he saw a boat like mine
anchor near Tortola.  
Would love to meet
other Amel
owner. 
Will
be staying in
the BVI until the end of
January. 

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289
NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina,
Tortola, BVI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air Conditioning in a Santorin

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

My pleasure Ian,

Hope to meet you!

Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11/17/16, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air Conditioning in a Santorin
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Thursday, November 17, 2016, 2:36 AM


 









Alexandre

The bow thruster, C Drive, rudder and many other parts on
the Santorin are identical to the SM. I have a file of
maintenance instructions downloaded from you and others
which has made my journey through Amel maintenance almost a
joy - and saved me a lot of money!

Many thanks.

Ian and Linda

Ocean Hobo. SN96
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hi Gang,

We lesave Lanzarote 2-3 Dec to Guadeloupe.  We expect to be in BVI late Jan.

Jean-Pierre Germain
Eleuthera, SM007
Lanzarote.


On 17 Nov 2016, at 08:10, James Studdart james.studdart@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 


Us too... We are heading to the BVI via Antigua from Cape Verde, probably leaving this weekend. We'd be very happy to meet up!

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean SM344

On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 at 22:06, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

We should also be in the neighborhood by then.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season – STILL

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...




Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?



 

 

Hello Bill,
I will still be there!
Looking forward to meet you!

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 4:18 PM


 









Alexandre,
We’ll be headed your way once
we get work done here in Florida.  We might even get there
by January!

Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieFort Lauderdale, FL“Ships and men rot in
port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Nov 16, 2016, at 17:09,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
One of my neighbors just told
me, he saw a boat like mine anchor near Tortola.  
Would love to meet
other Amel owner. 
Will be staying in
the BVI until the end of January. 

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina,
Tortola, BVI











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Jean-Pierre Germain,
+44 7551 211 511
jp.germain@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Ian Park
 

James
The Santorin is a scaled down SM minus some kit because it has less room eg gen set, freezer, washing machine etc....
So the rig is identical including the triple groove foil and furler with the snap ratchet for the ballooner.

The foam luff... Because of the 'shaped' cut of the Genoa, when it furls the centre section does not wrap as tightly as the top and bottom. So the centre bulges more, leaves creases across the sail and does not drive as efficiently.
Three strips of foam padding(in gradually shorter lengths) are stitched in down the luff. As the sail furls this new 'bulge' gathers more of the centre of the sail giving a better shape that drives better in stronger winds.

As Bill says, it's an omission that should be corrected.

Ian and Linda

'Ocean Hobo' SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Air Conditioning in a Santorin

Ian Park
 

Alexandre
The bow thruster, C Drive, rudder and many other parts on the Santorin are identical to the SM. I have a file of maintenance instructions downloaded from you and others which has made my journey through Amel maintenance almost a joy - and saved me a lot of money!
Many thanks.
Ian and Linda
Ocean Hobo. SN96


Re: Air Conditioning in a Santorin

Ian Park
 

Jim
We have had a Santorin for 4 years. Same advice about no design changes for a year.
The power output from the prop shaft alternator is a great asset while sailing. We have installed solar panels on the aft side rails to keep the power levels up at anchor - Med and Caribbean keep the fridge power demands pretty high.
All Amels are very well insulated boats and stay surprisingly cool down below in hot climates (with the addition of good shading on deck).
Ours came with an engine driven EchoTec water maker. I would not do without this for the additional freedom from marinas this gives us. I have added a 2000 watt petrol portable generator for extra mains power when needed. It was five times cheaper than an installed gen set, and as it is air cooled I can use it when hauled out if no mains power is available. I'd personally prioritise a watermaker over a generator or A/C.
However, this is the best boat I have owned and will not change it. The Santorin has to be one of the outstanding pre-owned boats for the money. No offence SMs - we would love that too, but the pension goes further with the Santorin!

Keep in touch by email if you have any questions about the SN. There are a couple of other SN owners on the forum that know their boats inside out too.

Ian and Linda

Ocean Hobo. SN 96.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?

James Studdart
 


Us too... We are heading to the BVI via Antigua from Cape Verde, probably leaving this weekend. We'd be very happy to meet up!

Cheers,
James.
SeaBean SM344

On Wed, 16 Nov 2016 at 22:06, 'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

We should also be in the neighborhood by then.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Super Maramu 2000

Hull #275

www.creampuff.us

Currently cruising:  Tampa Bay for hurricane season – STILL

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2016 5:23 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...


Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?

 

 

Hello Bill,
I will still be there!
Looking forward to meet you!

Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 11/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Other Amel in BVI?
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Wednesday, November 16, 2016, 4:18 PM


 









Alexandre,
We’ll be headed your way once
we get work done here in Florida.  We might even get there
by January!

Bill KinneySM #160, HarmonieFort Lauderdale, FL“Ships and men rot in
port."http://fetchinketch.net






On Nov 16, 2016, at 17:09,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
One of my neighbors just told
me, he saw a boat like mine anchor near Tortola.  
Would love to meet
other Amel owner. 
Will be staying in
the BVI until the end of January. 

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina,
Tortola, BVI











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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Air Conditioning in a Santorin

Ric Gottschalk <ric@...>
 

On my Santorin, the a/c condenser is raised near the C drive reservoir. The genset is by the starting batteries. I also have 10 fans for everyones comfort, especially for passages when hatches are somewhat sealed. I also have 5 dorades which are sealed during passages. 
Bali Hai SN 24
Annapolis

Ric Gottschalk
Kitchen Magic Refacers, Inc
Office 410-923-5800
Fax 410-923-5802

On Nov 16, 2016, at 7:18 PM, jandrkennedy@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Perfect - Herbert.


I am Thinking the Fans might be the answer - but I am definitely "googling" the Seawater units now.
And thank you.
Jim


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all..
If you get the 155% genoa I believe it needs to be made out of cloth to handle say 40 knots when partly furled. Because you will have times you have to partly furl and keep sailing in strong winds. The sail-maker needs to know this or your sail will fail early. Padded luff; essential to get good shape when furled. Of course how much padding is critical; too much or too little and it wont compensate correctly.
Last, and I think critical point. The foot should be cut so the clew is at a height that allows you to furl and maintain the correct sheeting angle without moving the sheet car. In squally conditions I furl in and out all the time and it is great not to have to shift that car. Bill and Judy on Bebe have done 40,000 miles circumnavigating. Yvonne and I have done about the same miles but only half a circuit, the rest up and down to and around the Pacific islands and New Zealand.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners]" To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 November 2016 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

 
Thanks James.  I have watched a great many episodes of Delos, but had not seen this one.  Thank you for pointing me this way.  Interesting to see the lofting floor put a sail together.

Steve

On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Steve,

   Congratulations!  I am pretty sure that Super Sailmakers made a complete suit for Delos and their is a You tube video that shows the loft.  I have had some contact with SSM and they told me that they have made sails for a lot of other Amels but I have not verified this.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 16, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,

Last week we became the new caretakers of SM2K #380.  She was originally named Feria and then Lady T, and is now Tourai.  Like a few others here, we are looking at new sails and will meet next week with Peter Grimm of Super Sailmakers in Ft. Lauderdale.  Has anyone else used them for their Amels?  He mentioned that he was putting together a couple ballooners at the moment and so I am curious if perhaps Harmonie is headed that way to pick up theirs from him?  Thanks to all for such a wonderfully active, supportive, and particularly useful user group.  

All the best,
Steve Morrison



On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,

From a slightly different perspective…

You are certainly right, changing from a 150% on a foil to a smaller sail in wind conditions where that would actually be  needed, is a real handful for a short handed crew.  Corralling that sail coming down is not something that one or even two people can easily handle in 25 knots of wind and a seaway.  It can be done… but it’s not my idea of fun.

I have found from experience that rigging a GaleSail most certainly IS a challenge.  Of course it is!  You only do it when the wind is blowing the oysters off the rocks and the bow is underwater half the time!  But it is no worse than taking down a large hanked-on sail and putting up a smaller one.  When you see comments about them, you have to remember that everybody who buys one has a roller furling jib, and the idea of going forward to install a new sail in rough conditions is not something they are used to. Having said that, I don’t have one on my Amel, and it isn’t on my list of things to add.

I think you would find the difference in performance between a roller furling 150% and a 135% to be very small, except under a very narrow range of wind speeds and angles.  Especially if the large sail is heavy enough to be useful in heavy winds, it then collapses in the light winds that should be its forte.  While it is certainly true that a sail that comes down as low to the deck as possible is more efficient, the loss of visibility to leeward can be a big deal if you sail shorthanded where there are other boats or obstacles around. I watched somebody run down hard on a buoy they didn’t see coming under their big decksweeping genoa. Is small performance difference worth the extra hassle?  That is something only you can answer for yourself.  It’s just a priority thing. I don’t let Formula 1 drivers tell me how to set up my car, and I don’t let racing sailors tell me how to rig my boat.

I have sailed boats with vertical battens in the mainsail.  I found them to be fussy on rolling.  Not impossible or fatally flawed, just fussy. The very opposite of a standard Amel mainsail, but some people are fine with the the bit of fussy needed. Again, priorities.  If your sailmaker convinces you that they are the way to go, I would insist on a guarantee they work--for you--the way you sail--and a free recut to a batten-less hollow leech if you are not happy.  Again, there is, of course, a performance penalty for the hollow leech when close hauled, but it is not huge.  And on other points of sail, it would be almost unnoticeable.  The best argument in favor of battens might be to reduce leech flutter and help the sail last longer.

One consideration: Can you get the sail out and useful if the engine is not available to help hold the boat into the wind?  Engines are not 100% reliable, and the ability to put up sail in an emergency is not something I would trade for a small performance benefit. If the jib alone will hold you high enough into the wind to get out the mainsail, then good enough.

Lot’s of good sailmakers in the world, many with Amel sail experience.  I needed a new ballooner recently, and I crossed off everybody on my list who didn’t know what that was.  


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 16, 2016, at 10:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

You asked: "Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu?"

The swivel is what needs to be changed and I understand from a rigger in Malta that the swivel is available, but since I never looked into it, I am not sure where. Possibly from Amel. You would need the swivel, a 3 slot foil, a "hooker" and a "de-hooker."

Since you would need a 3-slot foil, I am not sure that you would consider this unless you were replacing the foil.

Several SM owners have bought tri-radial cut hydranet sails from a sailmaker in Ismir, Turkey. I have toured the loft and was impressed. All that I know bought from them, are as satisfied as we were. They ship worldwide. Email: Tahsin Oge ogemar.com>. 

I do not have direct experience with a Maramu, but I would NOT use vertical battens in a Super Maramu furling mast. It was not made to accommodate battens and you will have some issues with wear and the ability to furl at any angle other than the wind at 0 degrees...and the difficulty is proportional with the wind speed.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Kent,

   Many thanks for your response to my questions about Amel sail inventory and especially the details of your experience with the battens.  

   Based just on this seasons sailing on Sueno, I agree with you that the original 150 Genoa is a very good solution for my boat and apparently yours as well.  It is a pretty big sail to store in a locker while a smaller sail is installed on the furler such as a working jib or the 110 Yankee cut sail that you mentioned.   All of my previous boats had hank on sails, which are relatively easy to control and change offshore due to the many fastening points.  On a furling sail that slides into a groove and is essentially free once lowered I cannot imagine that changing from the 150 to the 110 offshore in a bit of wind would be much fun.   This is why I was wondering about the Code 0 option.  It is a lightly made sail that hoists on a halyard ahead of the furler.  The sail is on a line furler so that when hoisted it is rolled up and can be lowered in the same state.  The Code 0 could be a significantly  larger than the 150 Genoa and would pack down into a smaller/lighter package when stowed.  This would allow the smaller jib to live permanently on the furler.  My Amel and the furling system in general is relatively new to me, so comments such as yours are a big help in making the right decisions on the new sails.  

   I have not read many positive things about the Gale sail and have never used one to date.  I wonder if there is a risk of damage to the furled sail from chafe?

   I do strongly feel that I want to have a headsail solution available on my boat that is strong enough to use deeply reefed and is easy to tack.  

   And yes, it is certainly possible these days with careful planning to avoid most of the higher wind conditions.  Our planned route will take us around South Africa however and that is one example where I think it may come down to the luck of the draw and I want to be ready…

   I have not yet used the double pole arrangement for downwind sailing but spinnakers I are not a good option for cruising in my mind either.  

   Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu? 

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy
 
On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:


Hi James,
I have an SM, so not entirely the same...but here is my experience.

When I purchased Kristy 8 years ago, the sails had been discarded.  I was starting with a clean slate, but didn't know very much.  She's my first sailboat.

I knew that the original set of sails included a 150% genoa, but allowed myself to be talked down to a 135% by a sailmaker in Kemah, Texas.  He said that I wouldn't have good sail shape by the time I reefed to 15-18 kts of wind.  He may have been right, but as light winds are more of a problem than too much wind, I regret not having the 150.  In addition, the 135 is cut with the clew 1.2 meters above the safety rail.  This further reduces my sail area in light air.  If I were to do it again, I would have a 150 with the fo ot just above the safety rail. (Assuming that it would still work well with the downwind pole.)

I also have a 110 Genoa with a high cut clew, almost a Yankee.  It is my go-to sail in the Eastern Caribbean during the winter months when the trades blow 20-25 kts all the time.

The main and mizzen have short vertical battens that have never been a problem.  You just have to keep the boom at 90 degrees to the mast when furling in or out.  Watch the battens as they enter the mast, they should enter all at once, not at any angle.

My sails are 8 years old and still look very good.  They are Dacron with Spectra and I was told they should last 12-15 years.  They aren't racing sails, but they do what I want them to do very well.

If I am still sailing when my current sails need replacing, I don't think I'd change anything except that I'd go with the 150 genoa.

I have a spinnaker that came with the boat, but I've never used it.  Anyone interested?  Pay for shipping and you can have it.  I love the double pole rig for downwind sailing.

I also have a Gale Sail that straps around the furled headsail. I put it up once but have never actually used it to sail with....I try to stay out of those conditions.  I've been in 35-40 kts a couple of times, both times with the 110 Yankee up. She did great jib and jigger with the 110 furled about 20% and the mizzen at the spreader.

Don't know if that helps you at all, jus t recounting my experience.  I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Steady as she goes.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243















Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New sails

Stephen MORRISON <steve_morrison@...>
 

Thanks James.  I have watched a great many episodes of Delos, but had not seen this one.  Thank you for pointing me this way.  Interesting to see the lofting floor put a sail together.

Steve

On Nov 16, 2016, at 4:03 PM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Steve,


   Congratulations!  I am pretty sure that Super Sailmakers made a complete suit for Delos and their is a You tube video that shows the loft.  I have had some contact with SSM and they told me that they have made sails for a lot of other Amels but I have not verified this.  

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy

On Nov 16, 2016, at 2:59 PM, Stephen MORRISON steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Hi all,


Last week we became the new caretakers of SM2K #380.  She was originally named Feria and then Lady T, and is now Tourai.  Like a few others here, we are looking at new sails and will meet next week with Peter Grimm of Super Sailmakers in Ft. Lauderdale.  Has anyone else used them for their Amels?  He mentioned that he was putting together a couple ballooners at the moment and so I am curious if perhaps Harmonie is headed that way to pick up theirs from him?  Thanks to all for such a wonderfully active, supportive, and particularly useful user group.  

All the best,
Steve Morrison



On Nov 16, 2016, at 12:51 PM, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

James,


From a slightly different perspective…

You are certainly right, changing from a 150% on a foil to a smaller sail in wind conditions where that would actually be  needed, is a real handful for a short handed crew.  Corralling that sail coming down is not something that one or even two people can easily handle in 25 knots of wind and a seaway.  It can be done… but it’s not my idea of fun.

I have found from experience that rigging a GaleSail most certainly IS a challenge.  Of course it is!  You only do it when the wind is blowing the oysters off the rocks and the bow is underwater half the time!  But it is no worse than taking down a large hanked-on sail and putting up a smaller one.  When you see comments about them, you have to remember that everybody who buys one has a roller furling jib, and the idea of going forward to install a new sail in rough conditions is not something they are used to. Having said that, I don’t have one on my Amel, and it isn’t on my list of things to add.

I think you would find the difference in performance between a roller furling 150% and a 135% to be very small, except under a very narrow range of wind speeds and angles.  Especially if the large sail is heavy enough to be useful in heavy winds, it then collapses in the light winds that should be its forte.  While it is certainly true that a sail that comes down as low to the deck as possible is more efficient, the loss of visibility to leeward can be a big deal if you sail shorthanded where there are other boats or obstacles around. I watched somebody run down hard on a buoy they didn’t see coming under their big decksweeping genoa. Is small performance difference worth the extra hassle?  That is something only you can answer for yourself.  It’s just a priority thing. I don’t let Formula 1 drivers tell me how to set up my car, and I don’t let racing sailors tell me how to rig my boat.

I have sailed boats with vertical battens in the mainsail.  I found them to be fussy on rolling.  Not impossible or fatally flawed, just fussy. The very opposite of a standard Amel mainsail, but some people are fine with the the bit of fussy needed. Again, priorities.  If your sailmaker convinces you that they are the way to go, I would insist on a guarantee they work--for you--the way you sail--and a free recut to a batten-less hollow leech if you are not happy.  Again, there is, of course, a performance penalty for the hollow leech when close hauled, but it is not huge.  And on other points of sail, it would be almost unnoticeable.  The best argument in favor of battens might be to reduce leech flutter and help the sail last longer.

One consideration: Can you get the sail out and useful if the engine is not available to help hold the boat into the wind?  Engines are not 100% reliable, and the ability to put up sail in an emergency is not something I would trade for a small performance benefit. If the jib alone will hold you high enough into the wind to get out the mainsail, then good enough.

Lot’s of good sailmakers in the world, many with Amel sail experience.  I needed a new ballooner recently, and I crossed off everybody on my list who didn’t know what that was.  


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
Fort Lauderdale, FL
“Ships and men rot in port."





On Nov 16, 2016, at 10:37, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


James,

You asked: "Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu?"

The swivel is what needs to be changed and I understand from a rigger in Malta that the swivel is available, but since I never looked into it, I am not sure where. Possibly from Amel. You would need the swivel, a 3 slot foil, a "hooker" and a "de-hooker."

Since you would need a 3-slot foil, I am not sure that you would consider this unless you were replacing the foil.

Several SM owners have bought tri-radial cut hydranet sails from a sailmaker in Ismir, Turkey. I have toured the loft and was impressed. All that I know bought from them, are as satisfied as we were. They ship worldwide. Email: Tahsin Oge ogemar.com>. 

I do not have direct experience with a Maramu, but I would NOT use vertical battens in a Super Maramu furling mast. It was not made to accommodate battens and you will have some issues with wear and the ability to furl at any angle other than the wind at 0 degrees...and the difficulty is proportional with the wind speed.

Bill
BeBe 387

On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 10:45 AM, James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Kent,


   Many thanks for your response to my questions about Amel sail inventory and especially the details of your experience with the battens.  

   Based just on this seasons sailing on Sueno, I agree with you that the original 150 Genoa is a very good solution for my boat and apparently yours as well.  It is a pretty big sail to store in a locker while a smaller sail is installed on the furler such as a working jib or the 110 Yankee cut sail that you mentioned.   All of my previous boats had hank on sails, which are relatively easy to control and change offshore due to the many fastening points.  On a furling sail that slides into a groove and is essentially free once lowered I cannot imagine that changing from the 150 to the 110 offshore in a bit of wind would be much fun.   This is why I was wondering about the Code 0 option.  It is a lightly made sail that hoists on a halyard ahead of the furler.  The sail is on a line furler so that when hoisted it is rolled up and can be lowered in the same state.  The Code 0 could be a significantly  larger than the 150 Genoa and would pack down into a smaller/lighter package when stowed.  This would allow the smaller jib to live permanently on the furler.  My Amel and the furling system in general is relatively new to me, so comments such as yours are a big help in making the right decisions on the new sails.  

   I have not read many positive things about the Gale sail and have never used one to date.  I wonder if there is a risk of damage to the furled sail from chafe?

   I do strongly feel that I want to have a headsail solution available on my boat that is strong enough to use deeply reefed and is easy to tack.  

   And yes, it is certainly possible these days with careful planning to avoid most of the higher wind conditions.  Our planned route will take us around South Africa however and that is one example where I think it may come down to the luck of the draw and I want to be ready…

   I have not yet used the double pole arrangement for downwind sailing but spinnakers I are not a good option for cruising in my mind either.  

   Can anyone tell me if the special Amel locking mechanism for the ballooner which allows the removal of the halyard is adaptable to the Maramu? 

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220
Arbatax,  Italy
 
On Nov 15, 2016, at 9:09 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hi James,
I have an SM, so not entirely the same...but here is my experience.

When I purchased Kristy 8 years ago, the sails had been discarded.  I was starting with a clean slate, but didn't know very much.  She's my first sailboat.

I knew that the original set of sails included a 150% genoa, but allowed myself to be talked down to a 135% by a sailmaker in Kemah, Texas.  He said that I wouldn't have good sail shape by the time I reefed to 15-18 kts of wind.  He may have been right, but as light winds are more of a problem than too much wind, I regret not having the 150.  In addition, the 135 is cut with the clew 1.2 meters above the safety rail.  This further reduces my sail area in light air.  If I were to do it again, I would have a 150 with the fo ot just above the safety rail. (Assuming that it would still work well with the downwind pole.)

I also have a 110 Genoa with a high cut clew, almost a Yankee.  It is my go-to sail in the Eastern Caribbean during the winter months when the trades blow 20-25 kts all the time.

The main and mizzen have short vertical battens that have never been a problem.  You just have to keep the boom at 90 degrees to the mast when furling in or out.  Watch the battens as they enter the mast, they should enter all at once, not at any angle.

My sails are 8 years old and still look very good.  They are Dacron with Spectra and I was told they should last 12-15 years.  They aren't racing sails, but they do what I want them to do very well.

If I am still sailing when my current sails need replacing, I don't think I'd change anything except that I'd go with the 150 genoa.

I have a spinnaker that came with the boat, but I've never used it.  Anyone interested?  Pay for shipping and you can have it.  I love the double pole rig for downwind sailing.

I also have a Gale Sail that straps around the furled headsail. I put it up once but have never actually used it to sail with....I try to stay out of those conditions.  I've been in 35-40 kts a couple of times, both times with the 110 Yankee up. She did great jib and jigger with the 110 furled about 20% and the mizzen at the spreader.

Don't know if that helps you at all, jus t recounting my experience.  I don't really have anything to compare it to.

Steady as she goes.

Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243













Re: Air Conditioning in a Santorin

jandrkennedy@...
 

Perfect - Herbert.

I am Thinking the Fans might be the answer - but I am definitely "googling" the Seawater units now.
And thank you.
Jim