Date   

NZ cat one surveys

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all,

There was a query a few days back about the NZ cat one departure surveys for off shore yachts and how Amel yachts fared in this inspection. I have been having trouble connecting with the forum so my reply has been delayed. Ocean Pearl has passed this inspection at least five times. I have found the Yachting NZ inspectors helpful and practical with Ocean Pearl and my previous yachts.

It is a pain and expense to replace the flares that are required every three years, likewise the life-raft servicing, annually or bi annually if you pay a bit more

What issues are there? The Amel doesn't have a tri sail track and its not practical to fit one. The inspectors being practical people acknowledged the ketch rig gave enough storm sail options. This year the rules have been changed so it requires triple stitching of a "tri sail" size portion of the main sail that may be unfurled in a storm.  The life rail is slightly lower than specified but the solid top rail satisfied them. I believe dorade vents are specified but the amel ventilation options satisfied them.

There are comprehensive equipment requirements much more than the 4 buckets Alan mentioned. Communication, distress communication, safety equipment, first aid, tools, sufficient water and  fuel, navigation equipment and a competent  navigator. And of course a competent and experienced skipper.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

Steve Morrison <steve_morrison@...>
 

Hi Kent, 

Yes on my boat (380) there is a block exactly where you say from which I can run the lift out to the cheek block on the mizzen boom.  I just used it this afternoon to swing my Tohatsu off the rail and over to the dock on the port side for servicing. I will take a photo of it in the morning and see if I can clarify the attachment point for you.

All the best,
Steve Morrison
SM380 TouRai
Brunswick, GA

 

On 11 August 2017, at 9:49 PM, Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] lifting dinghy

karkauai
 

Thanks, Danny.  When you lift the outboard, where is the block attached that leads to the winch?  I've been taking a line over the cheek block at the end of the boom and directly to the port mizzen winch.  It's not a fair lead.  Others say they have a block at the spreaders that gives fair leads to both the cheek block and the winch.  I'm going to do that, but am wondering where to attach the block at the spreaders.



Kent
S/V Kristy
SM243


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Block at the mizzenmast spreader to lift dinghy motor

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

this is a test, Ive been having trouble replying to forum messages.

Danny

On 12 August 2017 at 10:11 "karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all. I'm going to add a block at the mizzenmast spreaders to lift the outboard and to put the dinghy on the aft cabintop for passages.
Can someone tell me where the block is attached? And how much line it takes to do its varied jobs?

There are wire loops (~7-8mm dia) on the two bolts that hold the spreaders on the mast, between the forward and aft mizzen mast shroud attachments. Is that where the block is attached? It doesn't look like a fair lead with the shrouds in the way of the working end of the line???

As always, thanks for your help.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD til this Fall


 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: maramu mail roller furler swivel

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...>
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: 06 August 2017 at 08:31
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: maramu mail roller furler swivel

I tried to send this before and got a failure notice. Here goes again. sorry if you've had it before.

Danny

Hi All,

It is possible I am going to save some of us a lot of grief. On my previous yacht we had a roller furler head sail. On an ocean crossing the upper swivel jammed solid with the sail half out. Wouldn't move in or out. Totally stuck. It was a 15 metre mast so the manual unwrapping of the sail was a hard physical exercise. Once the sail was unfurled we dropped the sail and got the swivel down to the deck. With not many options mid ocean we washed the swivel with fresh water and bingo it was free, spun perfectly. The rollers in the swivel had got coated with salt. It didn't look salt coated but that's what it was. It doesn't take much. So if your upper swivel jams or gets stiff to move, as a simple first step give it a good wash with clean fresh water. With the main and mizzen obviously you cant unwrap them as we did the headsail so take a hose up with the bosuns chair and give the swivel a good fresh water flush. If it works you have fixed it simply, if not you haven't spent too much time. 

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 05 August 2017 at 02:38 "Kenneth Coats coatskenneth1@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

I didn't see your original post so don't know the year of your Maramu.  I have a 1985, the first year of electric roller furling.  The motor and worm drive are in the front of the mast.  I have a friend with a 1986 and his is on lower starboard side.  From memory.  My swivel froze at sea so I wrapped the main around the mast and got into port.  Then up the mast nd removed the pin in the slot that keeps the upper part of the swivel from spinning.   Take the halyard off the swivel and tied the swivel to the top of the furling rod.  This allows the swivel to spin with the furling rod and the sail can be used to get you to a place where you can do the work.  I went back up and loosened the furling rod nut on top the mast to remove the tension.  Then removed the motor and worm gear from front of mast (manual furl mechanism built in drive shaft).  Next remove the gear at the bottom of the furling rod (2 bolts on the bottom, hard work through the slot).  Next take out the lower bearing housing and bearing, (bolted in in my version).  The swivel then came off.  If I recall I had to lift the mast a bit to slide the swivel out.  Now you can fix the swivel and then do everything again backwards.  Look at this as an opportunity to become friends with your mast.  The mizzen works the same way, only no electric motor.

Ken & Judy
Golden Daze #292
1985 Maramu

 


 


lifting dinghy

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent.

To lift the outboard we run a line over the block fastened to the end of the mizzen boom and lead it back over a block to the main sheet winch. To lift the dinghy onto the aft cabin for passages we use the mizzen stay-sail halyard run to the main-sheet winch. Being from the top of the mast there is less sideways pull than you would get from a lifting line from the spreaders.

Regards

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl


Block at the mizzenmast spreader to lift dinghy motor

karkauai
 

Hi all. I'm going to add a block at the mizzenmast spreaders to lift the outboard and to put the dinghy on the aft cabintop for passages.
Can someone tell me where the block is attached? And how much line it takes to do its varied jobs?

There are wire loops (~7-8mm dia) on the two bolts that hold the spreaders on the mast, between the forward and aft mizzen mast shroud attachments. Is that where the block is attached? It doesn't look like a fair lead with the shrouds in the way of the working end of the line???

As always, thanks for your help.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy
St Michaels MD til this Fall


Re: Down wind sail configuration

Dave_Benjamin
 

The factory twin pole arrangement is tough to beat for any extended periods of downwind sailing. We've built some specially developed light air sails called a CLASS (Cruisers Light Air Sail Solution) that work very well for wing angles above 150 apparent. 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water membranes replacement

Sv Garulfo
 

Ian,

We will certainly try that as soon as all the spares are in. 
Thanks for the tip.

Soraya

On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 12:56 PM, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Soraya and Thomas,


 There is an easy way to remove the end caps. Buy  the right sized jubilee clip and fit it around the end cap. Before tightening it, insert two ends of a short piece of webbing to make a loop.

 Now tighten the jubilee clip as tight as you can to trap the two ends of the webbing against the cap.

 Sit in the cockpit and put the loop over one of the cleats on the mizzen mast.  Hold the black tube and give a number of sharp tugs. The end cap will pop off. 


Ian and Judy, Pen Azen, SM 302, Greece


From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> on behalf of 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: 08 August 2017 13:25:46
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Water membranes replacement
 
Soraya & Thomas,

When Bill Kinney wrote about the dry saltwater membranes, that was the first I heard about the existence of these. So, I cannot comment on any experience with them. I am not sure how long they have been available. When I last bought membranes, Air Water Ice did not have these. In fact, it was the owner of Air Water Ice that told me there was no way for me to buy spares and the necessity to keep the membranes wet until installed. But, things change and one person's limited experience does not mean that his experience is complete. 

I believe that if you can find your size priced between 160-185 euro ex-VAT, that will be about the best price. The best price for the 40 inch membrane for the 160 liter will be around 200 euro. 

The difficult part will be removing the end caps. If you can clamp the end caps in a vise and then twist and pull the tubes from the end caps, you will have no problems. If you try to remove the end caps in your cockpit without a vise, you will have difficulty. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Aug 8, 2017 04:17, "SV Garulfo svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Hi Bill & Bill & all,

We had already downloaded Bill R's PDF guide shared earlier this year, but these additional clarifications are very welcome. Thank you!
 
We are already living aboard (so need membranes shipped), and they are to be installed immediately not for spares (so hopefully wet/dry will be less of an issue this time round).

We will report back to the group on this when sourcing and work has been done :), if useful to others in the region. Many suppliers seem to apply a significant premium so definitely something worth shopping around for, especially if you need 3 like on the DUO100 (we have seen prices ranging from 175 to 480 EUR for 1 membrane !..).

Also curious about how you establish when your membranes need replacing? We are assuming this is a matter of flow (L/h) and/or output TDS measurement. Anything else to consider? Have you generally found that membranes can be used close to their spec (#hours)?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and experience,

Soraya
& Thomas
-- 
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Port Cros, Côte d'azur, France

On 6 August 2017 at 16:03, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:
 

Soraya & Thomas,

I see that Hutter gave you a source in the EU for membranes. Hint: According to Air Water Ice, Filmtec SW membranes have a shelf-life of 6 months. If you suspect that the supplier has had inventory this long, don't buy the membranes from that supplier.

The following information will probably be helpful:
  1. There is only ONE manufacturer of these SW membranes worldwide, so any membrane you buy is made by Filmtec.
  2. There is a special diagonal-cut O'ring that is shipped installed on the membranes from Filmtec. Be careful because this O'ring only allows insertion into the pressure tube in one direction. When you see it, it will be obvious. Also, be careful and aware when you remove the old membranes of the orientation of this special O'ring. Mark the tube and number each tube so that you do not make any mistakes. Additionally, there are a number of O'rings that you should replace when doing this job. The small Bobbin-Interconnects have O'rings and the End Caps have O rings. You should order these from dessalator.com to ensure the correct size.
  3. Hint: the best thing that I have found to use on new O'rings and nitrile gaskets is a silicone grease that you can find in dive shops. It is Trident Silicone Grease. It will also add life to aged O'rings.
  4. Hint: the end-caps will be difficult to remove without damaging them. Care a patience are required if you have never done this before.
  5. Hint: If you buy membranes and either ship them, or carry them in airplane-checked-luggage, buy PVC pipe and end caps from a plumbing supplier. Insert the membrane into the PVC pipe to protect it in shipping. Another Hint: Security will likely want to open these PVC pipes to see what is inside. Do not glue the PVC end caps and be sure to drill a small hole in the end cap. The hole allows for air to enter when pulling the cap off...without the hole the end cap may have to be cut off because vacuum may hold the cap in place. Tape your membrane invoice to the outside of the PVC pipe so that Security can see the document.
Good luck, and I hope that this email helps you.

​Best,​

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


 

--
GARULFO
Amel 54 #122
Port Cros, Côte d'azur, France



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Good Service In Marmaris Turkey

greatketch@...
 


From what I see, if my jib car is adjusted properly the leech of the sail comes to the shroud at almost the same time as the foot.  I don't have a single "best" position for the jib car, it moves back and forth depending on the wind strength.

Certainly when the windward and leeward telltails are streaming "correctly" the sail is pulling at its hardest. But that is not necessarily the point that gives you the best veloitcy over ground to windward.  Pointing higher and giving up a bit of boat speed can get you up wind further, faster.  It's a balance.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <sv_freespirit@...> wrote :

Bill,

yes you are right, but please take into considerations two things. Firstly, I always leave my poles rigged. This is because I use them a lot and also for added security. There is something to grab should I stumble when coming back to the cockpit. Being single handed, it's essential that I don't go overboard. The folded poles  limit slightly the sheeting angle, but even with the poles not present I would not sheet in further than the foot of the sail just about to touch the shrouds.Secondly I am talking about sailing with windward and leeward tell tales streaming correctly. I have sailed Crusader at 37 apparent in strong winds but the flow is not laminar over the whole sail, as as you know, Amel only demonstrate 40 degrees when handing the boat over.

Where to you have the genoa cars when close hauled? Mine are 2 inches aft of the rear fixing bolt on the side of the dodger.Our sails are probably not exactly the same of course. My upper windward tell tales are just twitching when sheeted in to the poles and the car in this position.

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece


On 07/08/2017 21:32, greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

If I figure the numbers right (39 +6) the old sail was only allowing 45 degrees apparent as the best pointing angle. That is truly awful and is hardly representative of a triradial sail's performance on a Super Maramu.  


Even 39 degrees apparent is not so great.  If I am working my way to windward in typical conditions, I expect to see 37 deg apparent, and 50 deg true. Of course you can only learn so much from apparent wind angles. The real question is velocity made good, over ground, to windward.  But that number is rarely ever talked about. 

Bill Kinney
SM160,  Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Modified SM Prop Shaft Seal Bush

greatketch@...
 

There is having the outer seals facing the other way, but protecting the spring from seawater is not it.

Lip seals are designed to "pump" fluid as the shaft turns, from the "outside" to the "inside".  This pumping action is obviously VERY tiny. It helps in normal installations with oil on the inside and air on the outside to move any small amount of seeping oil back into the gearbox.

Our application is quite different.  The shaft seal on the C-Drive needs to keep two incompatible liquids apart. It is not something one standard single-lip seal can do, even when it is functioning perfectly.  The three seals are NOT there for triple redundancy, rather they work together as an integrated design.  

If the outer seal was installed "normally" it would be constantly moving a tiny amount of water toward the oil chamber.  Obviously not a good idea.  When people put these seals together backwards, and find water in the transmission, they assume the seal has failed early, when it is actually doing just what it is designed to do!

Think of it this way, the outer seal is working to keep the water in the ocean and the other two are keeping the oil in the gear box.  One could make a reasonable argument (as SKF tech support does in the email quoted in this thread) that the best way to install them is two keeping water out and one keeping oil in, but that would be an incremental change, not a dramatic one.

The upshot of this is once the outer seal fails, you will get water into the oil, even if the two inner seals are in perfect condition.  On the other hand, the chances for a rapid, catastrophic lose of oil are very low.

The biggest wear factor on these seals (Absent fishing line!) is grit in the water. Sand, mud, slit, all will score the wear bushing. One hour motoring in muddy river water is much harder on the wear bushing than many hours in clear tropical ocean water.  No matter what material the bushing is made of, it will wear, but some materials (stainless) will wear slower than others (bronze). 

Why did Amel chose bronze for this part?  I do not know.  It is softer than any seal maker would recommend, but remember that hardness recommendation is for hard to replace shafts, not replaceable bushings. Certainly bronze is easier to machine than stainless.  Based on comments to this group previously, Amel apparently tested a stainless bushing, but they have now gone back to supplying bronze.  Why?  I do not know.

Unless it is really bad, the rubber parts don't get chewed up as fast as you might think.  The grit "sticks" to the rubber and is not abrading it that much. That is how rubber can wear away metal without being destroyed itself.  But... once the bushing surface is damaged, THEN the seal gets worn quite quickly.

If you do decide to have a custom wear bushing made, be sure the machinist knows what is being made and what's important.  Just by way of example, the surface needs to be polished to (at least) the level specified by the seal manufacturer.  There should also be NO spiral tooling marks on the surface, in either direction--even before polishing.  This is NOT just a hunk of metal of a certain size. There is a lot of un-obvious detail here, and all of it important. If the machinist does not seem interested in these details, then he is the wrong guy for the job. Without knowing the details you might get lucky and have it work... or not. 

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine





Re: Modified SM Bow Thruster

Paul Osterberg
 

Ian, very interesting 
Would it be possible and a good idea to use lithium grease even with opened ball bearings?
I changed my bearings last year, but will haul out soon, so to opens the gear boat and put in lithium grease would be a small and quick job

I have some play between the propeller  hub and the shaft so a steel bushing would solve that

Paul on SY Kerpa SM259 currently cruising Rhode Island 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unknown freshwater source

Leopold Hauer
 

Hi Steve,
 Good to hear that we are not the only one's with that problem. Since we hardly use neither the aircondition nor the freezer we think that it is also the water tank inspection port under the freezer, the other two are ok.

HOW did you remove the freezer? Can you remember? 
Cheers, Leo

Am 11.08.2017 um 14:16 schrieb Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Hello Leo,

We have hull 72, and had a similar problem just after we purchased the boat in 2014. In our case, we had a lot of fresh water in the area where the water pump is located on our older boats, and gallons of water in the under floor area below the salon table. In our case, the seal on the water tank inspection port had deteriorated, and we had to remove the freezer and replace it. This is a good opportunity to clean your water tank as well. 
Ear
Keep in mind that the inspection port under the sink area in the galley can also put water in the area you are finding it in when heeled to port. Until you have the time to check it, try keeping the water level below 600 liters when you sail, and you should not have any water escaping the tank. If you are still finding water when keeping the tank below 600 liters, I suspect you have a different problem. 

Cheers,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Aruba

On Aug 11, 2017, at 05:11, leopold.hauer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi everyone,

 

We have a "well" in the pantry bilges of our SM ( hull 69) : In higher waves, especially with wind from ahead , we get water ( definitely NO saltwater) in the compartment with the freshwater pump in front of the stove, continuing to the compartment underneath the sink and then to the one underneath the steps. The only origin we could imagine is the  freshwater tank inspection lid underneath the freezer, but we are not sure and  don't see any connection between  this lid and the  bilges in the pantry. 

The taps of dishwasher and washing machine are closed but most of the water is in this compartment. We are afraid that we have to remove the freezer.Has anyone ever removed the freezer and can give us hints or a description of how to do it?

Did or does anyone have this water problem too? Any ideas of a solution?


 

Greetings,

Leo Hauer

SM. Yin Yang


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unknown freshwater source

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Leo,

I sent you a private email. Hi to Margret...Judy says hi to both of you.

​Best,​

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550





On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Stephen Davis flyboyscd@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hello Leo,

We have hull 72, and had a similar problem just after we purchased the boat in 2014. In our case, we had a lot of fresh water in the area where the water pump is located on our older boats, and gallons of water in the under floor area below the salon table. In our case, the seal on the water tank inspection port had deteriorated, and we had to remove the freezer and replace it. This is a good opportunity to clean your water tank as well. 

Keep in mind that the inspection port under the sink area in the galley can also put water in the area you are finding it in when heeled to port. Until you have the time to check it, try keeping the water level below 600 liters when you sail, and you should not have any water escaping the tank. If you are still finding water when keeping the tank below 600 liters, I suspect you have a different problem. 

Cheers,

Steve Davis
Aloha SM72
Aruba

On Aug 11, 2017, at 05:11, leopold.hauer@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi everyone,

 

We have a "well" in the pantry bilges of our SM ( hull 69) : In higher waves, especially with wind from ahead , we get water ( definitely NO saltwater) in the compartment with the freshwater pump in front of the stove, continuing to the compartment underneath the sink and then to the one underneath the steps. The only origin we could imagine is the  freshwater tank inspection lid underneath the freezer, but we are not sure and  don't see any connection between  this lid and the  bilges in the pantry. 

The taps of dishwasher and washing machine are closed but most of the water is in this compartment. We are afraid that we have to remove the freezer.Has anyone ever removed the freezer and can give us hints or a description of how to do it?

Did or does anyone have this water problem too? Any ideas of a solution?


 

Greetings,

Leo Hauer

SM. Yin Yang



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Bimini Alterations?

Ian Shepherd
 

Steve I folded my bimini down today to see just how much you can extend the from frame height. As the extended frame actually rests on top of the dodger,you could extend it all the way till just short of the twist locks that the bimini cover attach to when stowed away. That would make it a full 12 cms a side. But that would make the front of the bimini higher than the middle section which would not look nice. I suggest an extension of 7.5 cms is about right. You may need to have a new stowed away cover made to fit the new shape.I did.

The Teflon spacers I mentioned to make sure that the front frame folds right down without fouling the side of the dodger slot are 2.3 cms in diameter and 1.8 cms long, drilled with a 7mm hole to fit over the 6mm pins.

Hope this helps

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 Crusader (2003) Kastelorizo Greece


On 10/08/2017 21:03, Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Steve,

I raised the front frame on my new bimini by 7cms a side. This was done by cutting the side tubing above the attachment hole and welding in a 7cm length. After polishing you can't see the join. The frame still folds into the dodger top recess, but what you will probably need to do is machine up two Teflon spacers and put one each side of on the fixing pin between the tubing and the outer edge of the dodger. This ensures that when folding down the tube does not rub on the edge of the dodger. 7 cms gave me headroom to stand at the wheel and look through the unzipped from panel and suck in that glorious breeze! I believe that we might have gone a bit higher than 7 cms, but that would have spoilt the nice new parallel top of the bimini which enhance the look of the boat. Have a look at Crusader's photos as well. I will take a look tomorrow at the measurements of the spacers

Regards

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Kastelorizo Island Greece

s
On 08/08/2017 02:00, steve_morrison@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Thank you Pat.  When you say that you raised your bimini framing a few inches, how did you do that?  I assume that you mean that you had new arches shaped that stood taller than the originals?  Did you use the original attachment points on the downslope of the hard dodger (such that I would imagine that you are no longer able to get the bimini to fold and tuck into its original stowed position), or did you move the attachment points farther and aft lower to allow for longer arches that still stowed in the original position.  


Any of the other owners reading this that may have changed the geometry of the original stainless arch frames, where did you attach them, and can you still fold and secure the bimini to the top of the hard dodger?

I am not on my boat again until wednesday and thus can't remember whether the trailing edge of the hard dodger descends at at an angle greater than or less than a 45 degree angle, and therefor, whether moving the attachment points lower and aft with a lengthened arch would gain in overall height or not while still folding as the original.  

I will check for for your Shenanigans photos tonight.

All the best,
Steve Morrison
SM 380 TouRai
Brunswick, GA



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Modified SM Prop Shaft Seal Bush & Amel Bow Thruster

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

All,

As I said earlier, "I have been and will always be the person in this group that warns everyone about changing an Amel design. It is nothing personal." Most everyone knows this, except for those new-to-Amel.

Additionally, regarding my place in the "curve," yes, I know that it is different than some. I really appreciate change and improvement, but I also believe that change for the sake of change, or change without appropriate engineering off-setting potential RISK, is very risky. Think Boeing engineers, who some pilots do not like, but also will admit the lives they have saved.

C-Drive:
Like I mentioned earlier, every single C-Drive water egress that I am familiar with has been the result of either:
  1. Using non-OEM parts
  2. Not following all of the steps in the procedure
  3. Intrusion of a foreign object like monofilament fishing line. 
The amazing thing is, that with all of the tinkering and outside part machining that has happend to save a few euros, nobody has ruined the 30,000 C-Drive, and as far as I know, nobody has lost oil.

I saw the "test-part" that Bob Rossi was accidentally shipped. Regardless, what Maud told Bob, I believe it was a normal Amel OEM wear bushing that had been chrome plated on the part that is exposed to the lips of the seals. BTW, I think that this makes a lot of sense. The chrome plating should offer a smoother surface for the lips of the seals, but I am no expert. Bob will tell you that I had several conversations with Amel  about this part because I was very interested in any change and improvement made by Amel. BTW, in my previous career, I gave seminars on embracing change.

Amel Bow Thruster (non-54,55,64):
Everyone should be aware that Amel changed the specification on the bow thruster shaft-seal. From Alexandre SM2K #289 NIKIMAT "Before it was 30 x 42 x 8 now it is 29 x 42 x 8...she added you won’t be able to put them by hand, but will need to grease and use a tool “emporte piece” in french (I personally used PVC pipe)." Most likely any bow thruster shaft seal that has been shipped since about mid 2016 is this new size. The issue is that, most likely, a new size seal and an added sleave will be a problem.

Bottom Line:
I have always been the person that warned against changing Amel designs. I warned owners because over the years I came to respect the genius of Amel design. I knew that, in most cases, it was well beyond my knowledge to outsmart or improve Amel design. 

Also, it doesn't make financial sense, or risk/reward sense to make a design change to the wear bushing that offers the primary benefit of increasing the interval of haulouts because there are plenty of prudent reasons to haulout every two years. A haulout will cost a very small percentage of the total investment, and buying non-OEM parts offers a miniscule percent savings on the total investment.

But, of course, all of these things are a matter of choice, and I certainly respect each owner's right to choose what is best for his/her Amel. I have been and will always be the person in this group that warns everyone about changing an Amel design. It is nothing personal, but it is important for people new-to-Amel to hear what I say, so that they can make an informed decision.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus

Amel School  http://amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

On Thu, Aug 10, 2017 at 2:13 PM, Ian Shepherd sv_freespirit@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill,

I believe that you are over complicating the issue. As far as  I remember the seals were from a local seal shop in Larnaca. I have no idea of the hardness but I can check when I get there next week as I bought more than I have used.

As far as the stainless is concerned, just plain old 316 is all I know. As Heinrich is no longer with us, I cannot find out, but maybe someone can test the bush which I still have.

The thing is Bill is that you are advocating people remain with a situation that we all know lets us down unexpectedly and often at an awkward time. You say you worry about protecting an expensive system yet you encourage owners to suffer sea water mixing with the lubricating oil. When this happens not everyone is in a position to haul out immediately. More damage may  be done if this happens

The benefits of what I have proven are:

The bush does not wear at anything like the rate of a bronze one.

As a result, it is now highly unlikely that the oil will be contaminated between say three year haul outs.

There is no electrolysis problem with stainless on stainless. at least not if lubricated with an anti corrosion grease such as Corrosion Block.

The fact that Amel are experimenting with a stainless surface indicates that this is the way to go. I am so glad that Amel have latched onto the idea, as they have with my idea of using sealed bearings in the bow thruster. Maybe they will look at a stainless sleeve on the bow thruster shaft too. It works!

You can protect the past all you want Bill, but my goal is to reduce nuisance servicing to the minimum so that I can enjoy sailing the boat.

Sometimes it pays to think outside the box.

Not sure about the mileage accolade. 48,273 as I speak almost all single handed. But then on an Amel that's easy!

Kindest regards to you and Judy

Ian Shepherd SM2K 41 Crusader (2003) Kasteloriso Island Greece


On 07/08/2017 14:48, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 
Ian, All, and especially newbies;

Most of you know that I have been and will always be the person in this group that warns everyone about changing an Amel design. It is nothing personal. I love all things Amel and I take it as my responsibility; so, because of that responsibility, I will offer the other side of CRUSADER's report and recommendation...nothing personal, but I am the self-appointed protector of all things Amel, and will always be the one to point out the RISK vs the REWARD in changing an Amel design.

<<<>>>
I am certainly no expert, but I believe that stainless steel comes in at least 5 types and also different hardnesses; and the Nitrile Buna-N seals are made in different hardnesses. Although I personally do not need the answer to the following questions, I believe anyone attempting to follow your recommendation should know: What type of stainless steel and hardness you used? What was the hardness of the seals? What were the engine hours between servicing?

I would guess that to obtain different results than the Amel-proven system, you have to either scientifically solve the wear issue to achieve a different balance between wear of the seal and wear of the bushing, or use a trial and error method. I assume that your method was trial and error, which resulted in changing the balance of wear between the wear bushing and the wear on the lips of the seals; which extended your haulout interval - your goal. 

We must remember that there will be wear between the lips of the seal and the wear bushing on the C-Drive. It is obvious to anyone who has serviced an Amel C-Drive that with the current Amel design the wear bushing appears to wear more than the seal lips. 

I would assume that one could scientifically change the balance to increase the interval of haulouts. However, it makes sense to me that unless a scientific approach is used, we would be playing Russian roulette with a very expensive part of our boat.

Don't take what I am saying as criticism. I am happy that you achieved your goal. My goal was to haul out every 2 years for more reasons than C-Drive maintenance.

I would urge all readers of this message to stick with proven Amel supplied parts and procedures, rather than changing something that you do not completely understand. I do not have the metallurgical and mechanical engineering expertise to develop a better system than Amel's wear bushing and seals, nor do I believe any of us have that knowledge. 

And, I will take this a step further: Many of the Amel systems that I have been exposed to, obviously take into consideration the required maintenance and the level of experience and knowledge of the person performing the job. When I managed new product development, I used the term "child proof." When I asked my staff if the new product was "child proof," they knew that I was asking if it would pass the test of the most ignorant user. I never met Henri Amel, but from my experience with his boats, I believe he also used my term, or one similar.

Until recently, I had no idea that the Nitrile Buna-N seals are available in a hardness range from 40-90, and I do not know the hardness of the Nitrile Buna-N lip seals that Amel uses. We all know that bronze, brass, and Naval brass are available in different hardnesses. I suspect that none of us know the hardness of the wear bushing that Amel uses, nor do we know the percent of copper, tin, and zinc . Without this information, I believe that changing the balance of wear between the bushing and the seal should not be attempted, unless you understand the huge risk for what, I believe, is very little reward.

Ian, it is very good to have you return to this forum. I have missed you and your posts. Probably none of us have more miles in a Super Maramu than you have.

​Best,​

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

Ian Shepherd
 

Ian,


I have met people who have done this, though I have never tried it. Be careful not to over stress the head of the ballooner. I ripped mine out on a crossing to the Caribbean during a sudden squall. After that I flew the mizzen staysail from the ballooner halyard to complete the crossing. Maybe a cruising chute would be a sail you might consider having on board for such occasions that you mention?

Ian Shepherd SM2K Crusader


On 11/08/2017 09:17, Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Unknown freshwater source

Ian Shepherd
 

Hi Leo,

I have had a similar problem. Does the fresh water ever look soapy? After much head scratching I found that the leak was from the port side sink to wast pipe connection under the bottom of the sink. The thread on the plastic connector was very poor. The reason that it took so long to find is that it only happened when the boat was heeled to port, thus forcing water towards the port side sink exit. I normally only use the starboard sink for washing up. Try filling each sink in turn then watch carefully underneath for drips.

I don't think the size of the waves is relevant as your leak is fresh water, but the heeling angle may be.

Ian Shepherd SM2K 414 (2003) Crusader Waiting for wind at Kastelorizo Island Greece


On 11/08/2017 09:11, leopold.hauer@... [amelyachtowners] wrote:
 

Hi everyone,

 

We have a "well" in the pantry bilges of our SM ( hull 69) : In higher waves, especially with wind from ahead , we get water ( definitely NO saltwater) in the compartment with the freshwater pump in front of the stove, continuing to the compartment underneath the sink and then to the one underneath the steps. The only origin we could imagine is the  freshwater tank inspection lid underneath the freezer, but we are not sure and  don't see any connection between  this lid and the  bilges in the pantry. 

The taps of dishwasher and washing machine are closed but most of the water is in this compartment. We are afraid that we have to remove the freezer.Has anyone ever removed the freezer and can give us hints or a description of how to do it?

Did or does anyone have this water problem too? Any ideas of a solution?


 

Greetings,

Leo Hauer

SM. Yin Yang



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

Ian Park
 

Bill,
Thanks for that point about the strength of the sail.
Glad I didn't learn the hard way!
Cheers
Ian


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Down wind sail configuration

greatketch@...
 

Ian,

There is no way to use the balloner without putting it into the luff foil.  It is NOT made to be a free-flying sail, it does not have the strength in the luff tape.

Since it needs to go in the luff foil, the only way to use it on its own would be to remove the genoa first. Probably not what  you are thinking of!

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Bar Harbor, Maine.


---In amelyachtowners@..., <parkianj@...> wrote :

Agree with everything said above. Impressed with all the sail options.
Just wondered if anyone had used the ballooner on its own as a cruising chute or along with the mizzen staysail on a beam reach ? I’m thinking of when wind drops towards the end of the day with just a few miles to go - would be nice without the engine or rigging the whole down wind kit……

Ian
Ocean Hobo SN96