Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

I thought you originally said that it was freshwater in the engine and muffler.

I discussed this with Bob Rossi and his Dessalator Flush Valve was defective. He maintains that this defective valve allowed the freshwater and saltwater systems to merge and when the freshwater system pressurized, the water flowed through the saltwater path to the Onan, filling the muffler and backing into the engine.

Although this is technically plausible, I wonder why the water took that path when there was a clear and lower pathway through the AC water system? Also, I wonder why neither of you noticed the pump cycle on/off on freshwater system with no use of the system?

A suggestion: Test for salinity using the TDS meter I am sure that you have because it will be much more reliable than taste. 

Good luck and another great example of the value of this Group.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School
720 Winnie Street
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 4:17 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for all the replies.  First, the water heater isn't connected to the genny.  There has never been excessive cranking of the genny, it starts almost on the first crank, every time.  The mechanic was convinced the water in the engine was fresh water.  We drained the muffler and he tasted salty water there.


I had an email from one of the fellows here and he had a similiar situation that may be my problem.  His flush valve for the watermaker had a slow leak AND he had the seachest thru-hull valve closed.  Since the flush valve was slowly leaking it eventually pressurizes the seachest and then the seawater system, which includes the genny.  He noted the genny is lower and will fill first.

The Yanmar appears to be fine, the oil level is below the high mark and doesn't appear murky.  I'm going to change the oil there anyway to be sure there isn't water in it.

This has the benefit of explaining the freshwater in the engine.  I wonder why I don't have water coming out the airconditioning thru-hull though.  Maybe it can't get past the pumps impeller?

This makes a lot of sense to me, what do all of you think?  

One take-away here, don't leave the seachest  valve closed when you haul-out, if you're going to use the freshwater pump.  During our last haul-out it was left open.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477



Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

A further update...

The problem appears to be the flush valve for the watermaker.  If it leaks from the freshwater side to the seawater side, when in the seawater position, it will send freshwater to the seawater distribution manifold.  If you have the seachest thru-hull valve open to the sea, this won't be a problem.  If you have that valve closed however, and the flush valve leaks as noted above, it will pressuize the seachest and force water back to the lowest reservior, which turns out to be the generator on an SM2000.

Don't close your seachest thru-hull while on the hard until you confirm no leak.  You can do that by closing the seachest thru-hull, emptying the seachest, leaving the water pump on.  If you don't get any leakage back into the seachest after 24 hours you're probably OK.

Thanks to Bob from Rossi Design Group (I didn't catch your boat name Bob) for the heads up to check this.  I hope he will post any further information he has or correct any mistakes in my notes above.

Thanks Bob!
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Hella 24 volt fan for $60USD delivered free in the US

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Here is a deal, if anyone is interested: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hella-Marine-24-volt-Fan-/302279534177?hash=item466143a661:g:MysAAOSw4CFY7BBb&vxp=mtr

Over the years, I bought replacements for these fans through ebay. I had a auto search for it which this morning delivered me a notice via email. There is only one...

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School
720 Winnie Street
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

Miles
 

Hello Gary,

 

I am replacing my standing rigging and I saw your posting from last May.   Did you post a pdf file with all the information?  If so, what is the file called?  I sounds like it would be very helpful.

 

Regards,

 

Miles  SM214, Ladybug


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Contact details

Barry Connor
 

Hi Thomas
Not on our boat at the moment. 
How can I help?
Regards
Barry


On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:49 AM, "svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello,

Apologies for the blanket post, but I would like to get in contact with Barry Connor (AMEL 54 #17 'Lady Penelope II').
Barry, if you get my message, could you please kindly email me your contact details at svgarulfo at gmail.com?

Many Thanks
Regards,

Thomas
AMEL 54 #122
GARULFO
Cap d'Agde




Contact details

Sv Garulfo
 

Hello,


Apologies for the blanket post, but I would like to get in contact with Barry Connor (AMEL 54 #17 'Lady Penelope II').

Barry, if you get my message, could you please kindly email me your contact details at svgarulfo at gmail.com?


Many Thanks

Regards,


Thomas

AMEL 54 #122

GARULFO

Cap d'Agde



Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

John, the genny is not connected to the water heater.  

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: replacing headstay

Duane Siegfri
 

Hello Miles,

Does Acmo have a distributor in the USA?  Or did you order it shipped from France?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks for all the replies.  First, the water heater isn't connected to the genny.  There has never been excessive cranking of the genny, it starts almost on the first crank, every time.  The mechanic was convinced the water in the engine was fresh water.  We drained the muffler and he tasted salty water there.

I had an email from one of the fellows here and he had a similiar situation that may be my problem.  His flush valve for the watermaker had a slow leak AND he had the seachest thru-hull valve closed.  Since the flush valve was slowly leaking it eventually pressurizes the seachest and then the seawater system, which includes the genny.  He noted the genny is lower and will fill first.

The Yanmar appears to be fine, the oil level is below the high mark and doesn't appear murky.  I'm going to change the oil there anyway to be sure there isn't water in it.

This has the benefit of explaining the freshwater in the engine.  I wonder why I don't have water coming out the airconditioning thru-hull though.  Maybe it can't get past the pumps impeller?

This makes a lot of sense to me, what do all of you think?  

One take-away here, don't leave the seachest  valve closed when you haul-out, if you're going to use the freshwater pump.  During our last haul-out it was left open.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: replacing headstay

Craig Briggs
 

Hello Miles,
If you search for postings with "Standing Rigging" or similar you'll get all the info you need (maybe even more!) Try starting with posting 7995, which is mine. Olivier also added good info to the discussion.
There are no seals where the forestay goes through the furler, but there is a two-piece delrin spacer you have to be careful not to lose. Let me know if you have any specific questions not covered in the postings.
Good luck with the project - it is really quite straightforward.  Tune everything rock hard then tune again after some sailing.
Cheers, Craig Briggs  SN#68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <milesbid@...> wrote :

Hello all,

I am  replacing my standing rigging with new rigging from ACMO.  Does anyone have pictures, diagrams, or detailed instructions for re[lacing the headstay?   Will I need any new seals for where the wire goes through the furler? 

Fair winds to all,

Miles  SM 214,  Ladybug

on the hard Newport, RI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] replacing headstay

James Alton
 

Miles,

   You might find some useful information from the SV Delos videos which you can find on Youtube.   I believe they start at episode #61. They changed the rig on their SM 2000 and recorded the process which included the forestay replacement.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Apr 10, 2017, at 10:37 AM, milesbid@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hello all,

I am  replacing my standing rigging with new rigging from ACMO.  Does anyone have pictures, diagrams, or detailed instructions for re[lacing the headstay?   Will I need any new seals for where the wire goes through the furler?  

Fair winds to all,

Miles  SM 214,  Ladybug

on the hard Newport, RI




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

John Clark
 

Agree with Mark, heed Bills comment that heater (only source of pressurized water I know of ) is not connected to genny cooling system on this hull. There has to be an explanation for fresh water in motor.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Mark Erdos
 

Duane,

 

I think I would get a second opinion from another mechanic. I have really thought about this and struggle to see how fresh water can mix with your oil when there is no connection to fresh water. This is about as absurd as finding engine oil in your drinking water.

 

While I can’t think of any cause for fresh water, if the muffler failed it would still be saltwater. So, the mechanic is talking out of both sides. And, if someone stuck a water hose in the exhaust hole to sabotage the boat then wouldn’t the engine also have water in it as it uses the same exhaust? Is it possible the mechanic lacked taste buds and couldn’t tell the difference from salt water and fresh water? If so, was the generator cranked without starting (the easiest way to fill the generator with saltwater)?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currenlty cruising – Turks and Caicos Islands

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 4:00 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

 

 

Update:  A mechanic came and in draining the oil found a lot of fresh water,before the oil started draining.  He pulled the plug on the vetus muffler and it seemed full, in fact he could hear water gurgling in the engine to muffler hose.

 

Apparently the muffler failed.

 

What's surprising about this is it an fine the last time just before we were hauled out.  Now it has water in the engine.  All the exhaust hoses look fine, no evidence of excessive heat.

 

The mechanics only real theory is that the muffler failed.  The other was that someone purposefully stuck a hose into the exhaust from the outside and forced water into the engine.

 

They plan on filling the engine oil reservoir with diesel fuel overnight, and then turning the engine by hand to check for water lock.  He noted the only way for the water to get into the oil was through the cylinders and rings.  They're going to replace the muffler as well since it had to fail for this to happen.  Apparently there's not much else to be done.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

I have never changed the gears. However I know from photos and the drawing that the small gear is held in place by a key. I know from the drawing that there are pins shown that keep the large gear from spinning. One of your photos shows what appears to be a hole for a pin, but no pin. 

If there isn't a key, or the pins, what do you think would keep the large gear from spinning. I think this is your problem. 

Additionally, it makes sense that Amel would use pins because a key would never work on the composite shaft. 

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School
Galveston Island
Sent using Google Fi
+1(832) 380-4970

   


On Apr 10, 2017 16:00, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Good afternoon Bill,

I didn’t know about these 2 pins…
I took some additional pictures and post them on a different page:
http://nikimat.com/bow_thruster_spin_2.html

The key on the shaft that hold the small wheel is normal.

Thanks again!!! Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 4/10/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 3:31 PM



 









I agree. I do not see any
excessive wear that would cause any of the gears you
photographed to slip.What was the condition of the two

pins that go through the two holes in the large steel gear
to hold it in place. I do not see those.

Bill
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at
3:16 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Good morning Bill,

Thanks again for replying.

If you don’t mind, I would love if you could please look
at the 11 pictures.

http://nikimat.com/bow_
thruster_spin.html



8 months ago, I happened to order from Amel a spare tufnol
shaft with the small and large wheels.

Here are some side by side pictures.

There is an obvious wear on the teeth of old one, it is not
as smooth for the wheels to rotate against each other, but
could this is enough to slip when the electric motor is
turning???



The other option, as you mentioned, is the splines of the
shaft and electric motor.

On FB, Conn Williamson said that they didn’t look
stripped… quite frankly I don’t know anymore…



I would prefer some opinion before I start to rebuilt it…




Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA



------------------------------ --------------

On Mon, 4/10/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@...
[amelyachtowners] com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster
problem.

To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com" com>

Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 11:16 AM





 



















Alex,

It could spin at high speed and

torque, but not when you turn it by hand.



1. Spin because the pin is broken

2. Spin because gear inside foot has come

loose

3. Spin because the splines where the

motor shaft and the thruster shaft meet are stripped.

4. Spin because the gears inside the foot are

stripped

I would think the most

likely is #1 above...and the least likely is #4
above. Oh

yes, and it is normal to be able to turn the motor shaft
by

turning the propeller...It should feel like gears
turning



But, it could have been

floating plastic causing the prop to temporarily
cavitate

and the plastic has floated away.



Bill

RouseX-BeBe

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:51

PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...

[amelyachtowners] com>

wrote:































 



















Good afternoon,







Friday, I hear similar (high pitch) sound to a lost

propeller on the bow thruster (happened to me 1 year ago).






This morning I dive to inspect the bow thruster, I was

expecting to see the propeller missing, but it was on…










It felt strange that I could manually rotate the
propeller

in the water, I do not remember I could that before…
but

I could be wrong…







So, I thought may be something was disconnected or
broken

inside the foot of the bow thruster.



Retrieving it from the water, when I turn the propeller
it

turns the shaft (connected to the electric motor).







So what could be the cause of the electric motor turning
and

not the propeller?







Thanks in advance.







Sincerely, Alexandre



SM2K #289 NIKIMAT



Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

John Clark
 

Good deal Bill.


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Bill,

I didn’t know about these 2 pins…
I took some additional pictures and post them on a different page:
http://nikimat.com/bow_thruster_spin_2.html

The key on the shaft that hold the small wheel is normal.

Thanks again!!! Sincerely, Alexandre



--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 4/10/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 3:31 PM


 









I agree. I do not see any
excessive wear that would cause any of the gears you
photographed to slip.What was the condition of the two
pins that go through the two holes in the large steel gear
to hold it in place. I do not see those.

Bill
On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at
3:16 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:















 









Good morning Bill,

Thanks again for replying.

If you don’t mind, I would love if you could please look
at the 11 pictures.

http://nikimat.com/bow_
thruster_spin.html



8 months ago, I happened to order from Amel a spare tufnol
shaft with the small and large wheels.

Here are some side by side pictures.

There is an obvious wear on the teeth of old one, it is not
as smooth for the wheels to rotate against each other, but
could this is enough to slip when the electric motor is
turning???



The other option, as you mentioned, is the splines of the
shaft and electric motor.

On FB, Conn Williamson said that they didn’t look
stripped… quite frankly I don’t know anymore…



I would prefer some opinion before I start to rebuilt it…




Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA



------------------------------ --------------

On Mon, 4/10/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@svbebe.com
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com> wrote:



Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster
problem.

To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com>

Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 11:16 AM





 



















Alex,

It could spin at high speed and

torque, but not when you turn it by hand.



1. Spin because the pin is broken

2. Spin because gear inside foot has come

loose

3. Spin because the splines where the

motor shaft and the thruster shaft meet are stripped.

4. Spin because the gears inside the foot are

stripped

I would think the most

likely is #1 above...and the least likely is #4
above. Oh

yes, and it is normal to be able to turn the motor shaft
by

turning the propeller...It should feel like gears
turning



But, it could have been

floating plastic causing the prop to temporarily
cavitate

and the plastic has floated away.



Bill

RouseX-BeBe

On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:51

PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@rocketmail.com

[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.
com>

wrote:































 



















Good afternoon,







Friday, I hear similar (high pitch) sound to a lost

propeller on the bow thruster (happened to me 1 year ago).






This morning I dive to inspect the bow thruster, I was

expecting to see the propeller missing, but it was on…










It felt strange that I could manually rotate the
propeller

in the water, I do not remember I could that before…
but

I could be wrong…







So, I thought may be something was disconnected or
broken

inside the foot of the bow thruster.



Retrieving it from the water, when I turn the propeller
it

turns the shaft (connected to the electric motor).







So what could be the cause of the electric motor turning
and

not the propeller?







Thanks in advance.







Sincerely, Alexandre



SM2K #289 NIKIMAT



Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator strange issue

eric freedman
 

Duane,

Sounds like you have fuel]l\\ oil getting into your lubricating oil.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376`

WHAT BOAT DO YOU HAVE?

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2017 2:16 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Onan Generator strange issue

 

 

We've been in a boatyard since Feb 15 for hull repairs.  We're going back in finally, tomorrow.  I was checking the engine room in preparation and found a very strange issue with the generator.

 

When I pulled the dipstick out to check oil level, oil came bubbling (almost gushing) out of the dipstick hole.  There's enough flow and pressure that I pulled it out again and it did the same thing, no hint that it was running out of oil.  It was fine when we arrived at the boatyard.

 

While we've been here, I found a leak in the fuel actuator and had it changed (expensive piece of gear!).  That's the only thing that's happened with the genny.

 

Any idea if the fuel actuator change-out could have caused the extra oil?  If not what could it be?

 

The only other fluids are fuel and coolant.  The coolant level hasn't changed.

 

The other odd thing was I noticed on several days that the generator exhaust was dripping while we've been on the hard.  I assumed it was condensation since it's been getting cool at night and the hot water heater keeps some warmth in the engine room.

 

Thanks,

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

John,

Duane's water heater is not connected to the Onan.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School for New-to-Amel Owners
Galveston Island
Sent using Google Fi

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:35 PM, biohead@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Duane, sorry about your troubles. With genny engine off and pressure on the crankcase, and "fresh" water....is your genny coolant water connected to hot water heater? If the hot water heat exchanger failed it could exploit failed head gasket or crack to allow the fw pump to slowly push water int engine....

John Clark
SV Vent de Soleil. SM 37
Great Bay St. Maarten



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Alex,

What about these pins circled in red on the attached photo?

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School for New-to-Amel Owners
Galveston Island
Sent using Google Fi

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...> wrote:
I agree. I do not see any excessive wear that would cause any of the gears you photographed to slip.
What was the condition of the two pins that go through the two holes in the large steel gear to hold it in place. I do not see those.

Bill

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 3:16 PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Good morning Bill,
Thanks again for replying.
If you don’t mind, I would love if you could please look at the 11 pictures.
http://nikimat.com/bow_thruster_spin.html

8 months ago, I happened to order from Amel a spare tufnol shaft with the small and large wheels.
Here are some side by side pictures.
There is an obvious wear on the teeth of old one, it is not as smooth for the wheels to rotate against each other, but could this is enough to slip when the electric motor is turning???

The other option, as you mentioned, is the splines of the shaft and electric motor.
On FB, Conn Williamson said that they didn’t look stripped… quite frankly I don’t know anymore…

I would prefer some opinion before I start to rebuilt it…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 4/10/17, 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] New Kind of Bow Thruster problem.
To: "amelyachtowners@...om" <amelyachtowners@...om>
Date: Monday, April 10, 2017, 11:16 AM




 









Alex,
It could spin at high speed and
torque, but not when you turn it by hand.

1. Spin because the pin is broken
2. Spin because gear inside foot has come
loose
3. Spin because the splines where the
motor shaft and the thruster shaft meet are stripped.
4. Spin because the gears inside the foot are
stripped
I would think the most
likely is #1 above...and the least likely is #4 above. Oh
yes, and it is normal to be able to turn the motor shaft by
turning the propeller...It should feel like gears turning

But, it could have been
floating plastic causing the prop to temporarily cavitate
and the plastic has floated away.

Bill
RouseX-BeBe
On Sun, Apr 9, 2017 at 1:51
PM, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...om>
wrote:















 









Good afternoon,



Friday, I hear similar (high pitch) sound to a lost
propeller on the bow thruster (happened to me 1 year ago).


This morning I dive to inspect the bow thruster, I was
expecting to see the propeller missing, but it was on…




It felt strange that I could manually rotate the propeller
in the water, I do not remember I could that before… but
I could be wrong…



So, I thought may be something was disconnected or broken
inside the foot of the bow thruster.

Retrieving it from the water, when I turn the propeller it
turns the shaft (connected to the electric motor).



So what could be the cause of the electric motor turning and
not the propeller?



Thanks in advance.



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Island Water World Marina, Sint Maarten, NA
















Re: Onan Generator strange issue

John Clark
 

Hi Duane, sorry about your troubles. With genny engine off and pressure on the crankcase, and "fresh" water....is your genny coolant water connected to hot water heater? If the hot water heat exchanger failed it could exploit failed head gasket or crack to allow the fw pump to slowly push water int engine....

John Clark
SV Vent de Soleil. SM 37
Great Bay St. Maarten