Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Explosive episode

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Jeff,

Batteries release Hydrogen gas when charging...they release a lot when overcharging. I believe the only thing that would blow the hinges off of that compartment would be Hydrogen gas. I am guessing that the release of Hydrogen gas was caused by either a short in one or more of the batteries, or a charging device overcharging. Either condition would cause the the batteries to overheat.

What was the condition of the batteries after the explosion? Were any battery cases cracked or broken? 

What was the temperature of the batteries? Were some hot?

Have you inspected the vent hose and checked that it is clear to the outside?

Batteries can be bad when delivered new. I bought 12 new house batteries about 4 years ago and 2 of them never left the dock. I tested all before placing them on the boat...2 had internal shorts.

I think maybe you were recording Amps, not Amp/hour. If you were recording Amps, it seems that 1.5 is fine, however, I am guessing that if 150-175 amps poured into fully charged batteries for 30 minutes, you could boil the batteries, releasing Hydrogen...I am not sure of this, but your alternator has an output capability of at least 150 amps. I believe it is controled by a smart regulator, but maybe not on hull #14. Is there a Smart Regulator in a plastic electrical box on the aft firewall slightly above the engine height? 

I apologize for giving you more questions than answers.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550






On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 6:17 PM, jmkraus@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I was motorsailing for an extended period trying to make as much progress to the easterd as possible.

While making omlets for myself and my crew, there was an explosion in the galley. The big plastic bowl I was mixing the omlets in blew out of my hands, and landed in the sink. It was a big loud pop, not a puff that you might expect from an excess of propane due to a burner left on. It wasn't so much an explosion as a loud POP.

My initial reaction was to think it WAS excess propane. The dials for the stove are touchy on the 54, and I thought I had made the mistake of having a burner slightly on , but unlit, and when enough propane built up, it exploded.

I checked the engine compartment, All OK.

After cleaning up the mess (it wasn't bad), and making the omlets, I went to log in the hourly numbers at the nav station, and noticed that the sea berth mattress and the battery comp artment cover were blown askew, and the facing cabinets were blown open. Upon closer inspection, the battery compartment cover had blown the hinges off.

A couple of points of note:

Batteries were replaced 10/16..replacements were the.same batteries as were originally aboard (lead acid)

New batteries were never allowed to go below 70%. Never saw below 23.3 volts

During motorsailing the AH reading recorded at that point was approx. +1.4AH  at each hourly log entry

The engine was turning 1300rpm, and it's the d3-110 (top end around 3000rpm)


I realized that there was apparent contribution of gas (H?) from the battery compartment that appears to have, if nothing else, created an independent event, and possibly, primarily caused the galley event,


I'm wondering 2 things:

1. Do es the float stage of the engine alternator produce too high of an amperage flow at float stage, during an extended period of engine usage, producing too much of a charge, causing the excess creation of the gas from the charging process?

2. Is the battery compartment improperly vented in the 54? (I thought there was a discussion of this in the past on the forum. Apologies. I don't follow the forum regularly, and may have missed this discussion

I opened the compartment regularly after the episode after the event to be safe.


If there was some kind of a protocol I wasn't following, please, by all means, let me know.

If there is something I was remiss in, or should have done differently, again, please let me know.


There was ZERO evidence of any type of a burning from the explosion.

The only evidence in the sea berth was a slight marking on the wall where the cover pushed hard into the wall on the aft end.


Any educated thoughts on the episode would be appreciated.

I will be tied up for a few months in my latest port of call as I get to the bottom of this event, along with a few other repairs, a few of which I'll seek the forum's advise.

Thanks Amelians.


Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14










Explosive episode

JEFFREY KRAUS
 

I was motorsailing for an extended period trying to make as much progress to the easterd as possible.

While making omlets for myself and my crew, there was an explosion in the galley. The big plastic bowl I was mixing the omlets in blew out of my hands, and landed in the sink. It was a big loud pop, not a puff that you might expect from an excess of propane due to a burner left on. It wasn't so much an explosion as a loud POP.

My initial reaction was to think it WAS excess propane. The dials for the stove are touchy on the 54, and I thought I had made the mistake of having a burner slightly on , but unlit, and when enough propane built up, it exploded.

I checked the engine compartment, All OK.

After cleaning up the mess (it wasn't bad), and making the omlets, I went to log in the hourly numbers at the nav station, and noticed that the sea berth mattress and the battery compartment cover were blown askew, and the facing cabinets were blown open. Upon closer inspection, the battery compartment cover had blown the hinges off.

A couple of points of note:

Batteries were replaced 10/16..replacements were the.same batteries as were originally aboard (lead acid)

New batteries were never allowed to go below 70%. Never saw below 23.3 volts

During motorsailing the AH reading recorded at that point was approx. +1.4AH  at each hourly log entry

The engine was turning 1300rpm, and it's the d3-110 (top end around 3000rpm)


I realized that there was apparent contribution of gas (H?) from the battery compartment that appears to have, if nothing else, created an independent event, and possibly, primarily caused the galley event,


I'm wondering 2 things:

1. Does the float stage of the engine alternator produce too high of an amperage flow at float stage, during an extended period of engine usage, producing too much of a charge, causing the excess creation of the gas from the charging process?

2. Is the battery compartment improperly vented in the 54? (I thought there was a discussion of this in the past on the forum. Apologies. I don't follow the forum regularly, and may have missed this discussion

I opened the compartment regularly after the episode after the event to be safe.


If there was some kind of a protocol I wasn't following, please, by all means, let me know.

If there is something I was remiss in, or should have done differently, again, please let me know.


There was ZERO evidence of any type of a burning from the explosion.

The only evidence in the sea berth was a slight marking on the wall where the cover pushed hard into the wall on the aft end.


Any educated thoughts on the episode would be appreciated.

I will be tied up for a few months in my latest port of call as I get to the bottom of this event, along with a few other repairs, a few of which I'll seek the forum's advise.

Thanks Amelians.


Jeff Spirit Amel 54 #14









Re: Battery Options in Santorin

ericmeury@...
 

ian we are only connected to shore power once every few months.  When we leave the boat at a dock we are not connected.

I do need to figure out a better charge profile for the alternator...thinking of the sterling alternator to battery monitor

Eric


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Options in Santorin

ericmeury@...
 

Ian

We ended up going with the following


new batteries are purchased. 680 Amp hours at 12 volt. Also purchased an automated battery watering system with the batteries. Picking them up on Friday and installing on friday then beer. each batter was 250 MINUS the core (varies on type of battery) I originally wanted the L16 wich would give 840 Amp hours but figured the savings in money could buy another solar panel.







Re: Instalation SSB

sbmesasailor
 

Rafa,

You are getting plenty of good advice from the other members of this group.  The only thing I would add is after you get the system installed, don't try to operate it in a marina.  There is too much interference and you'll think you did something wrong.  I installed ours in San Diego and it wouldn't work until we we were about a mile outside the marina.

Dennis Johns
Libertad
Maramu #121
Shelter Bay, Panama


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instalation SSB

Massimo Vecchietti
 

...I am very satisfied of this radio ,connected to a Pactor III.
I have used  the  starboard back-stay as antenna and AT 140  tunner
Normal transformer from 24v to 12 v.
Only AT 140 is connected to ground
Max
SY Patchouli II  n 84

Il 14 Giu 2017 5:24 PM, "rcavie" <no_reply@...> ha scritto:
 

Hi Max

I have the same Icom 706 MK2g and the tunner AT 120.
I will install my radio and I would like if you have a special converter from 24 to 12 V. What kind of antenna do you use, Shakespeare?  
Pleas let me know your experience with this radio.
I´ve got some information about grounding from others amel owners.
Thank you very much
Rafael 
Agapanthe
SM2k246


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instalation SSB

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Rafel,

The Icom 24-13.6VDC Converter used by Amel on SSB installations is difficult to find. Normal price is around $800-$1,000USD.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970






On Wed, Jun 14, 2017 at 9:19 AM, rcavie <no_reply@...> wrote:
 

Hi Max

I have the same Icom 706 MK2g and the tunner AT 120.
I will install my radio and I would like if you have a special converter from 24 to 12 V. What kind of antenna do you use, Shakespeare?  
Pleas let me know your experience with this radio.
I´ve got some information about grounding from others amel owners.
Thank you very much
Rafael 
Agapanthe
SM2k246



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instalation SSB

rcavie <no_reply@...>
 

Hi Max
I have the same Icom 706 MK2g and the tunner AT 120.
I will install my radio and I would like if you have a special converter from 24 to 12 V. What kind of antenna do you use, Shakespeare?  
Pleas let me know your experience with this radio.
I´ve got some information about grounding from others amel owners.
Thank you very much
Rafael 
Agapanthe
SM2k246


Re: Instalation SSB

greatketch@...
 

Just to be clear, the triatic is ONLY good as the secondary DSC receiver on a radio like the 802 that needs a separate receive-only antenna for its DSC system to work.  As Alan points out, it would be terrible as a main antenna. It is too short for for some of the lower frequency bands, and, unless you put the tuner at the top of the mast, you would lose virtually all of your transmitting power just getting to the top of the mast.

Since the DSC antenna is receive only, I'd bet that just tying to any piece of ungrounded rigging would be just as good as the triatic.  When I installed an 802 on my old boat I used a 16 foot (3.5 m) piece of 14AWG wire hoisted in the rig for the DSC antenna, and it work like a charm.  Harmonie came to us with a 710, which doesn't have the DSC function so no secondary antenna is used.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Highlands, NJ

---In amelyachtowners@..., <divanz620@...> wrote :

Interesting...
We have an ICOM710 with an AT130 tuner mounted in the hanging locker at the aft end of the pilot berth. Our antenna is the main mast backstay. The antenna lead goes through the head access to the base of the mizzen mast and up the mast a few feet and out a hole to connect with the insulated main backstay. It works well.
We initially tried the triatic stay, as the Furuno weather fax was connected to it, but it was worse than useless with the ICOM SSB, so when we re-rigged the boat a couple of years ago, the insulated triatic stay went west.
Interestingly, did you know, that none of the Super Maramu rigging is connected to ground ?
So apart from the risk of a crew member getting zapped, connecting the tuner antenna wire to any part of the standing rigging would work a treat! 
We insulated the main backstay to avoid problems with crew getting zapped !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Exploded oven inner glass, SuperMaramu

eric freedman
 

Hi,

I could not find the area where the stoves and parts are located.

Would you please send a link?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 4:53 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Exploded oven inner glass, SuperMaramu

 

 

Hi all
I believe I am not the only one that has got the inner glass on the oven hatch exploded. It was not a very pleasant experience, luckily we were at anchor and the glass was not that hot but it became like a trillion pieces. 
And of course a spoiled meal.

 

Our oven is an Over Seas Cooker from before June 1998.

 

You can get a new glass from www.eno.fr  Visit their web-site and search for your model and part number. They have a feature to send the request via the web-site but it doesn't work. Instead, send an e-mail to SAV@.... I wrote in english and got an answer in french, but Google translate is a good friend.

 

Price, 40€ incl VAT and freight to Portugal.

 

Regards

Annsofie,

S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998

in Portimao, Algarve, Portugal


Re: Exploded oven inner glass, SuperMaramu

Ian Park
 

Annesofie
It happened once to me. I had removed both the door glasses to clean them. Only one was fully heat proof. I had put them back the wrong way round. It was not an expensive cooker.
Ian
'Ocean Hobo' SN96


Re: Instalation SSB

Alan Leslie
 

Interesting...
We have an ICOM710 with an AT130 tuner mounted in the hanging locker at the aft end of the pilot berth. Our antenna is the main mast backstay. The antenna lead goes through the head access to the base of the mizzen mast and up the mast a few feet and out a hole to connect with the insulated main backstay. It works well.
We initially tried the triatic stay, as the Furuno weather fax was connected to it, but it was worse than useless with the ICOM SSB, so when we re-rigged the boat a couple of years ago, the insulated triatic stay went west.
Interestingly, did you know, that none of the Super Maramu rigging is connected to ground ?
So apart from the risk of a crew member getting zapped, connecting the tuner antenna wire to any part of the standing rigging would work a treat! 
We insulated the main backstay to avoid problems with crew getting zapped !
Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instalation SSB

Massimo Vecchietti
 

..I have an ICOM 706 MK II G, what is the question?
Max
SM Patchouli II. N.84

Il 13 Giu 2017 11:04 PM, "'Mark Erdos' mcerdos@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> ha scritto:
 

Rafa,

 

I installed an Icom SSB. What specifically would you like to know?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising – Puerto Rico

www.creampuff.us

 

From: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com [mailto:amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rcavie
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 9:19 AM
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Instalation SSB

 

 

Hello everyone

Does anyone have an SSB ICOM radio installation diagram in SM?

Some tips?

As always I appreciate the help of those who know how

 

Rafa

SM2k246

 


Exploded oven inner glass, SuperMaramu

kanalmamman@...
 

Hi all
I believe I am not the only one that has got the inner glass on the oven hatch exploded. It was not a very pleasant experience, luckily we were at anchor and the glass was not that hot but it became like a trillion pieces. 
And of course a spoiled meal.


Our oven is an Over Seas Cooker from before June 1998.


You can get a new glass from www.eno.fr  Visit their web-site and search for your model and part number. They have a feature to send the request via the web-site but it doesn't work. Instead, send an e-mail to SAV@.... I wrote in english and got an answer in french, but Google translate is a good friend.


Price, 40€ incl VAT and freight to Portugal.


Regards

Annsofie,

S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998

in Portimao, Algarve, Portugal


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Options in Santorin

Ian Park
 

David,
Sorry, the last message was meant for Eric!
Eric, hope you reach a good decision for your Santorin.

Ian 'Ocean Hobo' SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Battery Options in Santorin

Ian Park
 

David,
I had one battery out of four house batteries die just before leaving Cape Verde for Barbados. I removed it. The other 3 x 110 ah batteries were fine. I replaced all the house batteries when we eventually reached Martinique. What I learnt was that I had to ensure more frequently that the batteries were charged up when they got below 80%, but the bank of 3 didn't take as long to fully charge.
You didn't mention whether you still have the original Santorin charging regime or if you have added solar, wind or gen set. Also will you operate mainly from a marina with shore power or self sufficient anchorages.
A bigger bank may last longer, but takes longer to charge to 100% - important if you want maximum life from the bank.
Just another dimension to add to the decision making.
All the best.

Ian 'Ocean Hobo' SN96


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Cruzpro VAF110 shore power & generator monitor

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill, you are right. 


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jun 13, 2017 9:14 PM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Bill R. means to say kW-hours... not kW.


Kilowatts are easy, they are just volts*amps and are an instantaneous measure of power use. No need for a meter to display kW. It goes up and down exactly as the amperage does.  We do NOT pay for electricity by the kilowatt.

Kilowatt-hours are a very different beast, and is the integrated sum of total energy usage, it never goes down, only up.  It IS how we pay for electricity.

Similar name, but VERY different measurement and very commonly confused.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Highlands, NJ


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Beko No. WMB51022YU Washing machine in Martinique

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Bill,

Me too...I guess sarcasm didn't come through in my email.  It is unfortunate when someone says it's here, but never says where here is!


CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School www.amelschool.com
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

   

On Jun 13, 2017 9:14 PM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I'd hope he would share with all of us and not just "trade" for a book chapter.




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instalation SSB

eric freedman
 

Rafa,

The new Icom tuners are amazingly waterproof. I would mount it right below the antenna. In addition the length of the wire from the tuner to the antenna is also is added into the total length if the antenna.

 

 

Mine is 15 years old and works like new.. Do you have dynaplates on your hull?  I also remember something about a wire connected to non SSB radios connected to the boats bonding at the nav station, If I remember correctly this has to be disconnected.  Do you have a piece of copper foil sticking out of the hull on the starboard side in the aft locker above the shelf?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 10:37 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Instalation SSB

 

 

Hi Rafa,

 

There is not a lot of things unique about an Amel SSB installation over other boats, but I have a couple of comments on things to consider.  I did not do the installation on our boat, it come with.  So I have no pride of invention, just reporting what works.

 

We have the long whip antenna mounted on the starboard quarter.  The base plate was mounted on deck and the support was on the rail  When we installed the arch, we moved the base to the transom and the brace to the arch.  It works well either way.

 

On our boat the antenna tuner was mounted on the shelf in the aft deck locker.  If I was doing it over, I'd mount the tuner in a cabinet inside the aft cabin.  Icom tuners are rated as waterproof, but keeping them rigorously dry is a better plan. and an extra foot or two of lead wire would not be a significant performance issue.  If you want to use the rigging as the antenna, it gets a bit more complex, but still doable, and the physical arrangement will be different.

 

You'll need a 24 -> 12 volt convertor that is capable of holding the voltage at 13.4 volts at the full rated power draw of the radio if you want the best transmit performance.  That's a lot.  40 Amps if I remember right.

 

If you are installing an 802, using the triatic stay as the DSC antenna has a lot to recommend it.

 

There is a lot of black magic on antenna installations.  You'll get a lot a VERY conflicting advice, and everybody will claim to know best.  I am not an antenna expert, but it seems to me copying an installation that works well is a good idea.

 

Bill Kinney

SM160 Harmonie

Highlands, NJ

 


Re: Instalation SSB

greatketch@...
 

Hi Rafa,

There is not a lot of things unique about an Amel SSB installation over other boats, but I have a couple of comments on things to consider.  I did not do the installation on our boat, it come with.  So I have no pride of invention, just reporting what works.

We have the long whip antenna mounted on the starboard quarter.  The base plate was mounted on deck and the support was on the rail  When we installed the arch, we moved the base to the transom and the brace to the arch.  It works well either way.

On our boat the antenna tuner was mounted on the shelf in the aft deck locker.  If I was doing it over, I'd mount the tuner in a cabinet inside the aft cabin.  Icom tuners are rated as waterproof, but keeping them rigorously dry is a better plan. and an extra foot or two of lead wire would not be a significant performance issue.  If you want to use the rigging as the antenna, it gets a bit more complex, but still doable, and the physical arrangement will be different.

You'll need a 24 -> 12 volt convertor that is capable of holding the voltage at 13.4 volts at the full rated power draw of the radio if you want the best transmit performance.  That's a lot.  40 Amps if I remember right.

If you are installing an 802, using the triatic stay as the DSC antenna has a lot to recommend it.

There is a lot of black magic on antenna installations.  You'll get a lot a VERY conflicting advice, and everybody will claim to know best.  I am not an antenna expert, but it seems to me copying an installation that works well is a good idea.

Bill Kinney
SM160 Harmonie
Highlands, NJ