Date   

Re: Mizzen stay sail

Jose Venegas
 

Paul, 
I am glad you asked about this.  I have had the same problem when sailing Ipanema on a port broad reach.  I like the idea of using the boom to keep the sheet away from the ladder.  That should work on really broad reaches but will not let you use the mizzen if you are sailing a bit less deep. Perhaps the small pole may work.

I will be testing it soon.

Jose
Ipanema SM2000 278
No longer shrink rapped 
Constitution Marina
Boston


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Eric,

Turning off the freshwater pump may not be enough.

If you (for example) are on the hard, living on the boat with the seachest thru-hull closed, the leak is small and incremental.  If you turn off the water at 2PM and go into town, and then turn it back on at 7PM it was off only for 5 out of 24 hours.  The other 19 hours there is a trickle leaking past the flush valve ball and pressurizing the seachest.  While that's happening water is being pushed from the seachest to the generator.  Even though you shut off the water pump, the accumulator tank has a volume of water under pressure, and it will push into the system, basically supplying water for the leak until the pressure drops down far enough the valve no longer leaks.  So shutting it off for 5 hours, or overnight won't solve the problem.  Of course the problem only exists if the seachest thru-hull is closed with the lid on the seachest.

Here's the takeaway:  if you ever close the seacock, take off the lid to the seachest.  If you don't you're just gambling.

Apollo valves had a warning about their three way valves that follows (note paragraph 2):
============================================
When ports “A” and “B” are the inlets, and port “C” is the outlet, the
valve becomes a mixing valve. With minor variations in position 2
the percentage of components at “A” and “B” can be varied to the
outlet “C”. This has been successfully applied to hydronic systems.

It may not be possible to isolate the ports from one another in any
position. If the valve is in position 1, and the pressure at port “B” is
significantly higher than port “A”, the ball may be forced off the seat
allowing mixing from all ports. Whether or not this is a problem
depends on the application and its sensitivity to unwanted mixing.
================================================

The situation where the pressure at port "B" is significantly higher than Port "A" is exactly what we have in the flush valve at the watermaker.  What happens is that the freshwater side "unseats" the ball and water leaks to the pre-filter and thus the seawater system.  Whether this is unique to Apollo's valves, or is typical of ball valves I don't know, but now I am very very suspicious.

You can test yours by shutting the seacock with the water pump on, noting the level of water in it, and observing for 12 hours.  Of course you must not use any seawater (no airconditioning, no toilets, etc.).  On mine it would fill about 1/3 full in 8 hours.

This represents a lot of water over the course of a month as well.

I'm planning on putting a shut-off valve on the fresh water prior to the flush valve.  That way I'll sleep better and I won't worry about the new 3-way valve leaking.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mizzen stay sail

Paul Osterberg
 

Thank you for your inputs, I will try some of your suggestions,especially to use the mizzen boom.
Have anyone tried to make a pool sticking out a bit say a foot, should not be to difficult to attache to the after cleat. Would benefit when sailing with the wind more aft.
Paul on SY Kerpa SM 259 in Exuma Bahamas


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

eric freedman
 

Duane,

That is really odd, I thought those ball valves are bulletproof. I do turn off the fresh water pump when I leave Kimberlite for any length of time.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 8:46 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: RE: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

 

 

Eric,

 

On Wanderer there is a manual valve that controls water to the Duo60 Dessalator Pre-Filter.  Both freshwater and seawater are connected to it.  In one position it permits seawater to enter the pre-filter, in the other position it connects the pressurized freshwater to the pre-filter.

 

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

You asked why neither of us noticed the pump cycling.  It took 12 hours just to fill the seachest.  At that rate the accumulater tank may be able to supply the tiny trickle of water, and it could be covered up with normal use (washing dishes, etc).  We were talking about this and Peg noted she thought she thought she heard the pump in the middle of the night from the aft head.  But with regular liveaboard use of the water every few hours it might refill the accumulator often enough that the small volume of the leak doesn't cause the pump to cycle.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Eric,

On Wanderer there is a manual valve that controls water to the Duo60 Dessalator Pre-Filter.  Both freshwater and seawater are connected to it.  In one position it permits seawater to enter the pre-filter, in the other position it connects the pressurized freshwater to the pre-filter.

Duane


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

eric freedman
 

Duane,

What flush valve are you speaking about?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2017 2:35 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

 

 

Bill,

 

The mechanic tasted the water that pumped out of the Onan oil reservoir and said it was freshwater.  He also tasted the water in the muffler and said it was salt water.  Fresh water is less dense (weighs less) than salt water, so it will float on top unless there is some action that causes them to mix.  It's entirely possible that the fresh water floated on top of the salt water in the muffler and when we drained it, with the drain at the bottom, the salt water came out first.

 

all this aside, it's clear that the flush valve leaks into the sea chest:  I removed the sea chest lid, closed the sea chest thru-hull and waited.  The water level in the sea chest steadily rose during the day.

 

Many thanks to everyone for their help, especially Bob from Rossi Design Group...this forum is truly a blessing!

 

Duane

Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Bill,

The mechanic tasted the water that pumped out of the Onan oil reservoir and said it was freshwater.  He also tasted the water in the muffler and said it was salt water.  Fresh water is less dense (weighs less) than salt water, so it will float on top unless there is some action that causes them to mix.  It's entirely possible that the fresh water floated on top of the salt water in the muffler and when we drained it, with the drain at the bottom, the salt water came out first.

all this aside, it's clear that the flush valve leaks into the sea chest:  I removed the sea chest lid, closed the sea chest thru-hull and waited.  The water level in the sea chest steadily rose during the day.

Many thanks to everyone for their help, especially Bob from Rossi Design Group...this forum is truly a blessing!

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Duane,

I thought you originally said that it was freshwater in the engine and muffler.

I discussed this with Bob Rossi and his Dessalator Flush Valve was defective. He maintains that this defective valve allowed the freshwater and saltwater systems to merge and when the freshwater system pressurized, the water flowed through the saltwater path to the Onan, filling the muffler and backing into the engine.

Although this is technically plausible, I wonder why the water took that path when there was a clear and lower pathway through the AC water system? Also, I wonder why neither of you noticed the pump cycle on/off on freshwater system with no use of the system?

A suggestion: Test for salinity using the TDS meter I am sure that you have because it will be much more reliable than taste. 

Good luck and another great example of the value of this Group.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School
720 Winnie Street
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970

On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 4:17 AM, sailor63109@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thanks for all the replies.  First, the water heater isn't connected to the genny.  There has never been excessive cranking of the genny, it starts almost on the first crank, every time.  The mechanic was convinced the water in the engine was fresh water.  We drained the muffler and he tasted salty water there.


I had an email from one of the fellows here and he had a similiar situation that may be my problem.  His flush valve for the watermaker had a slow leak AND he had the seachest thru-hull valve closed.  Since the flush valve was slowly leaking it eventually pressurizes the seachest and then the seawater system, which includes the genny.  He noted the genny is lower and will fill first.

The Yanmar appears to be fine, the oil level is below the high mark and doesn't appear murky.  I'm going to change the oil there anyway to be sure there isn't water in it.

This has the benefit of explaining the freshwater in the engine.  I wonder why I don't have water coming out the airconditioning thru-hull though.  Maybe it can't get past the pumps impeller?

This makes a lot of sense to me, what do all of you think?  

One take-away here, don't leave the seachest  valve closed when you haul-out, if you're going to use the freshwater pump.  During our last haul-out it was left open.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477



Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

A further update...

The problem appears to be the flush valve for the watermaker.  If it leaks from the freshwater side to the seawater side, when in the seawater position, it will send freshwater to the seawater distribution manifold.  If you have the seachest thru-hull valve open to the sea, this won't be a problem.  If you have that valve closed however, and the flush valve leaks as noted above, it will pressuize the seachest and force water back to the lowest reservior, which turns out to be the generator on an SM2000.

Don't close your seachest thru-hull while on the hard until you confirm no leak.  You can do that by closing the seachest thru-hull, emptying the seachest, leaving the water pump on.  If you don't get any leakage back into the seachest after 24 hours you're probably OK.

Thanks to Bob from Rossi Design Group (I didn't catch your boat name Bob) for the heads up to check this.  I hope he will post any further information he has or correct any mistakes in my notes above.

Thanks Bob!
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Hella 24 volt fan for $60USD delivered free in the US

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

Here is a deal, if anyone is interested: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hella-Marine-24-volt-Fan-/302279534177?hash=item466143a661:g:MysAAOSw4CFY7BBb&vxp=mtr

Over the years, I bought replacements for these fans through ebay. I had a auto search for it which this morning delivered me a notice via email. There is only one...

Best,

CW Bill Rouse
Admiral, Texas Navy
Commander Emeritus
Amel School
720 Winnie Street
Galveston Island, TX 77550
+1(832) 380-4970


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Mast ( Main & Mizzen ) Installation and Rigging Fore / Aft Tuning

Miles
 

Hello Gary,

 

I am replacing my standing rigging and I saw your posting from last May.   Did you post a pdf file with all the information?  If so, what is the file called?  I sounds like it would be very helpful.

 

Regards,

 

Miles  SM214, Ladybug


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Contact details

Barry Connor
 

Hi Thomas
Not on our boat at the moment. 
How can I help?
Regards
Barry


On Tuesday, April 11, 2017 9:49 AM, "svgarulfo@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hello,

Apologies for the blanket post, but I would like to get in contact with Barry Connor (AMEL 54 #17 'Lady Penelope II').
Barry, if you get my message, could you please kindly email me your contact details at svgarulfo at gmail.com?

Many Thanks
Regards,

Thomas
AMEL 54 #122
GARULFO
Cap d'Agde




Contact details

Sv Garulfo
 

Hello,


Apologies for the blanket post, but I would like to get in contact with Barry Connor (AMEL 54 #17 'Lady Penelope II').

Barry, if you get my message, could you please kindly email me your contact details at svgarulfo at gmail.com?


Many Thanks

Regards,


Thomas

AMEL 54 #122

GARULFO

Cap d'Agde



Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

John, the genny is not connected to the water heater.  

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: replacing headstay

Duane Siegfri
 

Hello Miles,

Does Acmo have a distributor in the USA?  Or did you order it shipped from France?

Thanks,
Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: Onan Generator strange issue

Duane Siegfri
 

Thanks for all the replies.  First, the water heater isn't connected to the genny.  There has never been excessive cranking of the genny, it starts almost on the first crank, every time.  The mechanic was convinced the water in the engine was fresh water.  We drained the muffler and he tasted salty water there.

I had an email from one of the fellows here and he had a similiar situation that may be my problem.  His flush valve for the watermaker had a slow leak AND he had the seachest thru-hull valve closed.  Since the flush valve was slowly leaking it eventually pressurizes the seachest and then the seawater system, which includes the genny.  He noted the genny is lower and will fill first.

The Yanmar appears to be fine, the oil level is below the high mark and doesn't appear murky.  I'm going to change the oil there anyway to be sure there isn't water in it.

This has the benefit of explaining the freshwater in the engine.  I wonder why I don't have water coming out the airconditioning thru-hull though.  Maybe it can't get past the pumps impeller?

This makes a lot of sense to me, what do all of you think?  

One take-away here, don't leave the seachest  valve closed when you haul-out, if you're going to use the freshwater pump.  During our last haul-out it was left open.

Duane
Wanderer, SM#477


Re: replacing headstay

Craig Briggs
 

Hello Miles,
If you search for postings with "Standing Rigging" or similar you'll get all the info you need (maybe even more!) Try starting with posting 7995, which is mine. Olivier also added good info to the discussion.
There are no seals where the forestay goes through the furler, but there is a two-piece delrin spacer you have to be careful not to lose. Let me know if you have any specific questions not covered in the postings.
Good luck with the project - it is really quite straightforward.  Tune everything rock hard then tune again after some sailing.
Cheers, Craig Briggs  SN#68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <milesbid@...> wrote :

Hello all,

I am  replacing my standing rigging with new rigging from ACMO.  Does anyone have pictures, diagrams, or detailed instructions for re[lacing the headstay?   Will I need any new seals for where the wire goes through the furler? 

Fair winds to all,

Miles  SM 214,  Ladybug

on the hard Newport, RI


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] replacing headstay

James Alton
 

Miles,

   You might find some useful information from the SV Delos videos which you can find on Youtube.   I believe they start at episode #61. They changed the rig on their SM 2000 and recorded the process which included the forestay replacement.

Best,

James Alton
SV Sueno,  Maramu #220


On Apr 10, 2017, at 10:37 AM, milesbid@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:


Hello all,

I am  replacing my standing rigging with new rigging from ACMO.  Does anyone have pictures, diagrams, or detailed instructions for re[lacing the headstay?   Will I need any new seals for where the wire goes through the furler?  

Fair winds to all,

Miles  SM 214,  Ladybug

on the hard Newport, RI




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Onan Generator strange issue

John Clark
 

Agree with Mark, heed Bills comment that heater (only source of pressurized water I know of ) is not connected to genny cooling system on this hull. There has to be an explanation for fresh water in motor.