Date   

Re: Where to put the life raft

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Wow to what Eric was relating.... but that sort of bring up my point: I haven't been even remotely tested in this boat in horrific conditions, but from everything I read and hear (including just now with Eric's account above), I don't think you'll need a liferaft in horrific conditions. The Amels aren't going to be sunk like that. I'd say the two likeliest causes of needing a life raft would be ramming something in normal conditions (also less likely to sink us with the waterproof bulkheads and a good crash pump onboard, which most of us carry), or fire. That leaves fire. And in a fire situation, I'd be happiest on the aft rail where mine is mounted, not up front or in the cockpit. Just my 2 cents...


Re: Best location for solar panels

Mark Erdos
 

Alin,

 

Here’s a site with a couple of ideas: https://www.emarineinc.com/categories/Solar-Kits

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alin SM 283 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:43 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Best location for solar panels

 

Hi guys.
I know this subject must have been discussed before, I do not mind if you point me out to the right direction.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking solar panels for my Super Maramu.
The goal is to be able to at least run the fridges and sails and to minimize the use of the generator but I do not want to have an arch and do not one have Wanderer looking like a Xmas tree. I guess a little guidance to a minimum of power I should consider would be great
I really love the shape of my boat and the uncluttered and uncrowded lines.
My ideal of solar panels location would be on top of dog house or/and on the deck just in front of the windscreen. 
The question is, how much watts can I fit onto that area and how bad would be the shading from the boom. If someone has the time to send me some pictures of their setup, I would be most grateful.
Thank you.
Alin SV Wanderer


Re: Best location for solar panels

Diego de Miguel (Sailing Living Lab) Amel Sharki
 

Hi Alin,
At present I am studying how to adapt SolarFace by Tecnalia in my Sharki, Acrobat II, 
I did it in my Acrobat I (Sigma 38 OOD) before, and these protypes have been working perfectly since I installed them in 2016.
Yo can see both boats in this video (sorry, not availabe subtitles in English)
I sent an e-mail to Amel to propose a collaboration with Tecnalia, months ago. Unfortunately they did not reply to me :-(
This tech allows to integrate solar cells into composite materials, so we can build parts fot our boats with the solar cells embebed into them. We can also manufacture flat parts adapted to the shape or the deck, as we did in Acrobat I.
Also we could design and build a beautiful and stylized solar arch.
There are a lot of posibilities!
But Tecnalia needs the molds in order to manufacture the proyotypes and the collaborartion of a manufacturer for serial production (Tecnalia is a Technological Center, not a factory)
I am thinking (this is 100& brain storming) about to talk about this with all the members of this gropup. If there are more owners interested maybe we could rent the molds to Amel and manufacture the parts in San Sebastian (Spain), This is just an idea.
Best Regards,

Diego de Miguel
Sailing Liivng Lab
Sharki-52, Acrobat II


Re: Best location for solar panels

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Alin;

 

We have also looked for a while for a solution that does not include the Arch. We also intend on switching to Lithium batteries when our current Gel setup needs replacing in 2-3 years. So, we are making all upgrades that become necessary prior to the installation of the lithiums,. Our design concept is one that will be installed in stages but engineered for the final design. For example, our inverter gave out last season, so we are looking at installing the Victron 8000/220A Inverter/charger.

 

After many years of looking and analyzing, we have almost settled on a hardtop over the cockpit area. Solbian factory has designed the max wattage for the area, design, shading, etc. and has come up with about 900 Watts of deck mounted, flexible and walk on cells.

 

Our calculations show that after completion of the final concept and installation of the lithium batteries, we should be able to run the entire 24V and 220V systems on board (Not Simultaneously) on batteries and depending on sun conditions, minimal generator usage. We currently do not have solar and we have to run the generator twice per day at anchor.

 

This is a more costly approach than the Arch, but like you, we like the lines of 54 and wanted a complementary design that did not take away from her sleek lines.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alin SM 283 via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:43 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Best location for solar panels

 

Hi guys.
I know this subject must have been discussed before, I do not mind if you point me out to the right direction.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking solar panels for my Super Maramu.
The goal is to be able to at least run the fridges and sails and to minimize the use of the generator but I do not want to have an arch and do not one have Wanderer looking like a Xmas tree. I guess a little guidance to a minimum of power I should consider would be great
I really love the shape of my boat and the uncluttered and uncrowded lines.
My ideal of solar panels location would be on top of dog house or/and on the deck just in front of the windscreen. 
The question is, how much watts can I fit onto that area and how bad would be the shading from the boom. If someone has the time to send me some pictures of their setup, I would be most grateful.
Thank you.
Alin SV Wanderer


Re: Best location for solar panels

Alin SM 283
 

Hi Danny.
Thank you, I'd love to have a look.
Cheers
Alin


On Thursday, 23 April 2020, 05:10:32 pm NZST, Danny and Yvonne SIMMS <simms@...> wrote:


Hi Alin,

the best spot for two panels is on the port rail aft of the cockpit. I put mine there temporarily 11 years ago deciding to move them later if I didn't like the spot. Been fantastic Clamped to the rail 1/3 in 2/3 out. They don't need a brace and swing up easily when docking or any other time you want them out of the way. Works well for me. Come to Mangonui for a look when this lock down eases. This place means you don't loose deck space nor the ability to have a wide open top. Also cheap as chips to do, no good if you like to spend money.

Cheers

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 23 April 2020 at 16:42 "Alin SM 283 via groups.io" <sv.wanderer@...> wrote:

Hi guys.
I know this subject must have been discussed before, I do not mind if you point me out to the right direction.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking solar panels for my Super Maramu.
The goal is to be able to at least run the fridges and sails and to minimize the use of the generator but I do not want to have an arch and do not one have Wanderer looking like a Xmas tree. I guess a little guidance to a minimum of power I should consider would be great
I really love the shape of my boat and the uncluttered and uncrowded lines.
My ideal of solar panels location would be on top of dog house or/and on the deck just in front of the windscreen. 
The question is, how much watts can I fit onto that area and how bad would be the shading from the boom. If someone has the time to send me some pictures of their setup, I would be most grateful.
Thank you.
Alin SV Wanderer


Re: Best location for solar panels

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Alin,

the best spot for two panels is on the port rail aft of the cockpit. I put mine there temporarily 11 years ago deciding to move them later if I didn't like the spot. Been fantastic Clamped to the rail 1/3 in 2/3 out. They don't need a brace and swing up easily when docking or any other time you want them out of the way. Works well for me. Come to Mangonui for a look when this lock down eases. This place means you don't loose deck space nor the ability to have a wide open top. Also cheap as chips to do, no good if you like to spend money.

Cheers

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 23 April 2020 at 16:42 "Alin SM 283 via groups.io" <sv.wanderer@...> wrote:

Hi guys.
I know this subject must have been discussed before, I do not mind if you point me out to the right direction.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking solar panels for my Super Maramu.
The goal is to be able to at least run the fridges and sails and to minimize the use of the generator but I do not want to have an arch and do not one have Wanderer looking like a Xmas tree. I guess a little guidance to a minimum of power I should consider would be great
I really love the shape of my boat and the uncluttered and uncrowded lines.
My ideal of solar panels location would be on top of dog house or/and on the deck just in front of the windscreen. 
The question is, how much watts can I fit onto that area and how bad would be the shading from the boom. If someone has the time to send me some pictures of their setup, I would be most grateful.
Thank you.
Alin SV Wanderer


Best location for solar panels

Alin SM 283
 

Hi guys.
I know this subject must have been discussed before, I do not mind if you point me out to the right direction.
Anyway, I am seriously thinking solar panels for my Super Maramu.
The goal is to be able to at least run the fridges and sails and to minimize the use of the generator but I do not want to have an arch and do not one have Wanderer looking like a Xmas tree. I guess a little guidance to a minimum of power I should consider would be great
I really love the shape of my boat and the uncluttered and uncrowded lines.
My ideal of solar panels location would be on top of dog house or/and on the deck just in front of the windscreen. 
The question is, how much watts can I fit onto that area and how bad would be the shading from the boom. If someone has the time to send me some pictures of their setup, I would be most grateful.
Thank you.
Alin SV Wanderer


Re: Leece -Neville Alternator external regulator install

Kevin Fox
 

Dan,

I'm planning to install the Wakespeed WS500 on Rascal.  We have the Leece Neville 175A alternator and AGM batteries, and this regulator sounds like the way to go.  May I ask how your install turned out?  Any surprises with the wiring?  Where did you end up mounting the regulator?

Thanks very much,
Kevin


--
Kevin Fox and Family
SM404 Rascal
Currently berthed in Charleston, SC


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi,

We have never put any chemical in even when leaving the boat even for up to two months. I think the fact that I am very careful to avoid using the water maker in dirty of contaminated water helps. I am very careful in harbour and will not use it if I ever have any doubts. I guess  if the water you use has greebies in it your situation would be different. When I start up after a period of time I run the water to waste and it has the classic rotten egg smell common to salt water. That passes and the product water is fine. I don't have an automatic flushing system.

Danny

SM 299 Ocean Pearl

On 23 April 2020 at 02:25 Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

  

 

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121

 



 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


 


Re: Switch on Bilge Float Tube

Ian Townsend
 

Best of luck to you Diego. Hope to meet you sometime. Let us know how your switch install goes.

Ian & Margaret
S/V Loca Lola II 
SM153
Bahamas

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:48 AM, Diego de Miguel (Sailing Living Lab) Amel Sharki <diegodemiguelmurillo@...> wrote:

Thanks to you Ian.
I am planning to cross the Atlantic in december and to go to Florida. 
I see that you are in Fort Lauderdale, so we will be able to meet each other in the real world :-) 
All the best,

Diego.


Desalator USA

eric freedman
 

Desalator has an agent in Maine who is very helpful.

Contact Marc

58 Fore St. Bldg. 30

Portland ME 04101 

USA Mobile: +207 522 6737Fax: 517 813 6509

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ian Townsend
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 7:39 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

I have tried to use the Florida Dessalator service company called Multi-Tech. For those of us in North America, I would not recommend them at all. Did not return several calls or emails. Finally, I went to their location at Lauderdale Marine Center. I talked to a staff member and never got any follow-up or return call. Waste of time. 



Ian & Margaret

S/V Loca Lola II 

SM153

Bahamas


On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:58 PM, hanspeter baettig <hanspeter.baettig@...> wrote:

Jean-Pierre
I think it‘s unfair to broadcast such negative things about Desal, . Amel is still installing Desal Watermakers and I had very good experiances with SAV Dessalator. Mr Wagner jun. and his team is helpful and have a amazing knowledge about H2O makers.
So pls. we know us , be specific what was your problem with SAV. Maybe I can help you, cause I have a very good contact with Wagner
best
en confinité à St. Martin
Hanspeter
Tamango 2
SM16

------ Original Nachricht ------
Am Montag, 20. Apr, 2020 um 20:55, Germain Jean-Pierre schrieb:

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks.  I also took the entire holder to the shop… to verify the interior measurements.  I suspect the new ones will be made to a closer tolerance.

 

Dessalator after sales service has been non existent. 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Jean-Pierre Germain

 

 

 

On 21 Apr 2020, at 06:51, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

 

FYI, Dessalator originally made the membrane tube end caps out of white nylon. Emek copied Dessalator. Dessalator's choice of Nylon proved to be the wrong choice. Dessalator later made end caps from a harder material which was black. I am not sure of what the black material is, but, in my experience is that there have been very few issues with the Dessalator black end caps.
--

 

Best,

 

CW Bill Rouse
Amel Owners Yacht School

720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970

 


Pen Azen Membrane Tube end caps

eric freedman
 

Hi Amo,

As previously mentioned and originally invented by Ian and Judy on Pen Azen there is a very simple way to remove the end cap.

Just make a loop of webbing or dyneema and fasten it to the cap with a hose clamp.

Put the loop over a winch and give a firm tug to the tube. The cap pops off very easily.

Thanks Pen Azen.

Fair Winds

Eric

Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Arno Luijten
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2020 9:18 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Danny,

I made a change to the endcaps to solve this problem once and for all. I drilled 3 holes in the side of the cap, making sure not to drill too deep and ending up in the inner cavity. Then I cut some thread in the hole (M6) and put a very short bolt with a hex head in the hole using 3M 5200.
Now I have three points on the cap I put the blade of a screwdriver to and gently tap the cap from the tube.
What Desalator should have done is make the cap diameter lager then the tube diameter so you can develop some grip on the cap. Also the price is insane.
I'm a bit underwhelmed with the way this watermaker is designed, although the dual voltage thing is very clever. The control logic is well below par for the price I would say.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

David Wallace
 

Some years ago there was a post on this forum saying that Dessalator recommended flushing the membranes for storage just with product water, no chemicals. So I started doing that. I just replaced the membranes after 10 years of service, during which we did that. The membranes were replaced because of reduced product although the quality was still very good. We make water every 2-4 days when aboard, then flush with about 12 liters. When we leave the boat in the Sea of Cortez for the summer months, typically late May to early October, I flush with 200 liters. It’s worked well for us but just a personal anecdote.

Dave Wallace
sv Air Ops
Maramu #104


On Apr 22, 2020, at 7:22 AM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:


Matt,
  1. We were never in cold climates
  2. We were on the boat continuously with very few exceptions
  3. I installed a 24-volt timer and solenoid valve to flush 2x weekly when we were off the boat for a month
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:17 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
So what did you use, if you stored the boat?
I heard that propylene glycol (RV water system antifreeze) is a good substitute?......

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:10 PM, CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.


CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Matt Salatino
 

You can buy Sodium Metabisulfite on Amazon or eBay. It’s used in beer brewing. Very inexpensive.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Apr 22, 2020, at 6:28 PM, Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...> wrote:

Hi Arnold;

 

I had placed an order for about 10 packs a few years ago. At the time they were 5 Euros per pack. I do see now that they have increased their price to 27.53 Euros on their website. That is an unexpected increase.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: ZOOM Meeting of Members #ZOOM #poll

Paul Guenette
 

Hello Bill,

I would like to attend if it is possible.

thank you, Paul

Aramis
SM 444
San Francisco 


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Hi Arnold;

 

I had placed an order for about 10 packs a few years ago. At the time they were 5 Euros per pack. I do see now that they have increased their price to 27.53 Euros on their website. That is an unexpected increase.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Arnold Mente via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 9:13 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

 

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

 

Best and be save

 

Arnold

SY Zephyr

SM203

 

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

<image001.png>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

<image002.jpg>

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  

 

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 

 


--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Arnold Mente
 

Hi Mohammad and Atypisch,

wehre did you buy the sterilizing powder? My last bill from Desallator was € 22,95 +20% VAT for the powder!

Best and be save

Arnold
SY Zephyr
SM203

Am 22.04.2020 um 18:05 schrieb Mohammad Shirloo <mshirloo@...>:

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.
 
Happy Sailing;
 
 
Mohammad and Aty
B&B Kokomo
AMEL 54 #099
 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps
 
Paul,
 
I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.
<image001.png>
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
 
 
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:
Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps
 
One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.
 
There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.
 
I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.
 
Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."
 
BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.
 
 
<image002.jpg>
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School 
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550  
 
 
 
On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:
Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121 

-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 




--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Mohammad Shirloo
 

We have followed Dessalator instructions for storage during the off season. We have used the reusable cartridge and powder provided by Dessalator. (5 Euros per use). We have not had any issues.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:36 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

 

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.

image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

 

Paul,

I was referring to the fact that Dessalator recommends using the ST2 sterilizing cartridge and 1 packet of their "sterilizing" powder." This is regardless of the size.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:24 AM Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

Image removed by sender.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.Image removed by sender.

 

View My Training Calendar

Image removed by sender.

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: Membrane Tube end caps

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Before leaving the boat for an extended period of time I have always used 30ml Sodium Metabisulphite in 7.2l water (approx. 1 bucket), circulated through for half an hour, then allowing the bucket to drain, leaving the membranes flooded with the solution. Note that the concentration is the same regardless of the capacity of the water maker. I have never had a problem.

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse
Sent: 22 April 2020 15:10
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Membrane Tube end caps

 

One of the things that have not been mentioned in this Topic is the possible causes of the deterioration of some materials used for endcaps.

 

There is anecdotal evidence that points to Sodium Metabisulfite, the pickling chemical as being a cause, especially when it is mixed in a solution greater than recommended by Dessalator. IMPORTANTLY, the smaller watermakers (50-60 liter) have less than 1/3rd the internal volume that the larger watermakers (150-250), yet the recommended dosage is the same! This makes no sense to me. Additionally, there are some who believe if a small amount of pickling agent is good, more is better. BeBe (SM 387), with a D160 watermaker, had this "more is better" problem for the first 1.5 years of her life. She was cared for by an "experienced" guy in Tortola. He was one of those who believed, more is better. During his this time,  BeBe's owner only used BeBe 3 or 4 times for 2 weeks or less.  After each use, he had the caretaker pickle the watermaker. Within a few months of our ownership, the membranes needed replacing, and the white endcaps were deteriorated around the interconnect bobbin. When we bought BeBe, the watermaker had 34 hours on the meter, but the endcaps and the membranes needed replacing. I estimate that, except for a few weeks, the system was filled with a very high solution of Sodium Metabisulfite.

 

I replaced the white end caps with the "new" black end caps and had no issues for almost 11 years of ownership. During that ownership, I never used Sodium Metabisulfite. I replaced the membranes about every 3 years. I replaced them when the TDS neared 300ppm. This was my preference. Interestingly some Spectra watermakers have an auto-rejection system that rejects product water at 750ppm (default). Some watermaker manufacturers have said that any ppm that is under 1000ppm is safe. WHO states that 750ppm is safe, but recommends a daily intake limit at 500ppm. The efficiency of membranes, in terms of ppm changes with age. The slow creep of ppm will not be noticed. You should check ppm continuously.

 

Lastly, I have found Dessalaltor to be responsive to our needs. And, please remember this: "We encourage postings which will genuinely help Amel owners source needed parts and services. We encourage you to support the Amel brand and be respectful to the brand in your postings. Care should be taken to not post anything that could be considered offensive or derogatory regarding Amel, any Member, or Sponsor. Please refrain from political issues, rude, or inappropriate language. Please refrain from criticism of persons or businesses in which you may have experienced unsatisfactory results, because it would be one-sided, without the ability of the other side to respond."

 

BTW, Dessalator is the supplier of choice of many Super Yachts.

 

 

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:41 AM Arno Luijten <arno.luijten@...> wrote:

Hi Danny,

I fully agree we should not dismiss the choices Amel made too easy. I think the choice Amel made with the Desalator watermaker was excellent. But like with everything in life it was also a compromise between pro's and con's.
Reality is that companies that make watermakers are up to some extent just assembling stuff that is in the market anyway. So the membranes are from DuPont, the HP pump is from Cat, etc, etc.
But fact remains there are some valid points of criticism to be expressed for the Desalator product. That does not imply that Amel is to blame. It just means that Desalator has room for improving the product.
Until now I did not find a cruiser perfectly happy with his or hers watermaker. These things are extremely sensitive to bad treatment and treating them well can be a drag after so much time.
From my point of view there are a few things Desalator could improve with very little cost. I appreciate they don't change the product every two years and forget about spareparts for the installed base, like many companies do, but there are some obvious thing they could improve like many Amel owners already did themselves.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98