Date   

Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

VLADIMIR SONSEV
 

That Spade looks like was coated with some kind on corrosion protection. Normally carbon steel anchors are galvanized. Galvanized anchore is good for more than 15 year. I do not wash off my galvanized anchor with fresh water.

On Jun 18, 2016 5:49 PM, "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

I forgot a question Ian,

Since you have the same Spade I have. What type of care or maintenance do you do for your anchor?

I did not know anchor needed to be “maintained” (aside washing them after sailing and anchoring and regalvanized after a few years)
Here is how mine look like http://www.nikimat.com/spade_anchor.html which is the reason why Spade is sending me a new one…

So what do you do to maintain your anchor?

Would love to hear back from everybody.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/18/16, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 3:50 PM

Alexandre , 
   
         Why do
you need two anchors ? We have a 30 kg Spade which has coped
in all conditions . We carry an aluminium version 15 kg ,
with a couple of meters of chain which we keep in the port
bow locker " just in case " . We  have used it
once in anger in 55,000 miles and over 1,000 anchorages in
16 years and that was to pull a French yacht off the beach
in Brazil. We attached 100 meters of line , dug the anchor
in and used his winches to save his boat .
Modern anchors , given enough scope , are man
enough for most conditions .
Get your
anchor securely dug in and then pay out as much chain as you
can . Chain remaining on board serves no purpose .

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM
302 , At anchor in Greece



>
On 18 Jun 2016, at 00:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I won’t explain
how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but
if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend,
you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”). 
>
> So my question is:
how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and
Spade 30). 
> As far as I know, my
anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the
roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can
teach me its use). 
> http://www.nikimat.com/anchor_roller.html
>
> To me, it seems more
logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily
deployable.
> but I am open the
opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a
windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor
roller there, etc.)
>
>
> My next question is
how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors… 
> Weight is starting to seriously get a
problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter /
300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs). 

> So what would be the “minimum”
still safe combination chain (+ rope). 
> I know the chain will be 10 mm and the
rode should be 7/8” 
>
> Thanks in advance… 
>
> Sincerely,
Alexandre
> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto
Rico
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups
Links
>
>
>


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Re: GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change

Songhui Ma
 

Hello,

First and foremost thank you for all these answers and tips.It is really a relief to be able to tap all this specific experience that no one around can match.


Gary, great warning for the FLARE NUT WRENCH.


I have ordered the pump from Cummins US seamlessly for a US delivery that a friend will ship back to me.


Stay tuned
Dominique
S/V Viva
.
The tip from Gary [get the right wrench I am redaing vicar


---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

It is entirely possible that my fear of boat fires is making me irrational. So anybody should feel free to come to an alternative conclusion about risks and benefits without me thinking they are crazy.

I have seen four boats on fire. Two I put out, two I watched burn to the waterline. The idea that I could syphon 200 liters (or 100, or 50) of diesel fuel into an engine room fire with no way to stop it, just strikes me as terrifying.

The remote handle for the bottom valve is there to shut the valve in case of fire. It says so right on the handle. That’s the logic Amel used for the design of that valve. It is good logic. It is smart, it is as safe as it can be. I like that approach. Every other boat I have had had a similar arrangement.

If you accept that logic I don’t see how you can avoid thinking the syphoning return line should have the same arrangement. It would feed fuel to a fire also. Why is fuel that syphons out of the tank less hazardous during a fire than fuel from the bottom?

Enough said.

IF I find that the return line DOES syphon on my boat, I will install a remote handled valve to shut it off. Just like Amel did for the main fuel line. If that is the case, I’ll post pictures and a description of what I did.

On Jun 16, 2016, at 09:25, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... mailto:uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Bill,
>
> But this is a negative, there was more in the bilge than just what was in the line.
> Here is what Olivier wrote on Feb 23, 2016
> So may be I had more fuel than I thought… May be I had 3/4 and not half.
>
> Olivier’s message:
>
> the purpose of the shut-off valve at the bottom of the tank is not to be able to stop an engine but to prevent fuel from flowing in case of fire in the engine room (this is why there is a remote control).
> Yes, with this valve shut off, the engines go on running for 10 minutes (idling) before they stop. And I'm sure the main engine finally stops because I experienced this once in a windy harbor (because I did not check that this valve was open)...not fun at all.
> So, if you notice that the fuel keeps on flowing while you're changing the filters, this means the valve is dead and needs replacement (for safety in case of fire...). In fact there is a plastic housing around the chromed ball inside the valve. This plastic probably deteriorates because of time and wear.
>
> I don't think the engines can run thanks to the fuel coming from the return line (otherwise, the design of these engines would be very poor...).
>
> Bill is right, adding more valves is a source of future leaks, or problems (if you forget to open them all while running). AMEL did not do that to keep it simple, as you rarely change a filter on the genset while motoring (or vice versa).
> AMEL put a valve on the fuel heater system (option) as this equipment is more fragile, prone to leaking and should not be able to disable the engines (via air intakes).
>
> What Gary experienced with the fuel coming from the return line while changing the fuel filter on the genset, is because of siphoning when the tank is full. The fuel return line enters the tank with a piece of pipe that is around 20cm long, hence the siphon.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... mailto:greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change
> To: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... mailto:uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...>
> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 8:16 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A valve there is not for convenience during
> repairs, although it would be that.
>
>
>
> There shouldn’t be any way to empty the fuel tank into the
> bilge without a positive shut off in case of a broken hose
> or other disaster. The reason that Amel has a remote
> operated main fuel valve (and every other well designed boat
> as well) is so you can positively shut off fuel flow to the
> engine room in the event of a fire. Having a return line
> that syphon feeds fuel from the tank to a fire would totally
> defeat the purpose.
>
>
>
> I do not doubt that you had fuel come out of the return
> line. I would expect it there. My engineering sense is
> that you saw the fuel in the line draining back, and not
> coming from the tank. Return lines would be full on the
> shutdown of the engine(s) and would likely stay that way.
> Draining back down to the fuel level in the tank through the
> injection pumps and lift pumps would take a very long time.
>
>
>
>
> I have added a project to my endless list… disconnect the
> return line from the generator with a full fuel tank and
> closed main valve and see what happens. I expect to get
> about a liter of fuel out as the lines drain, and then no
> more. At least I hope that’s what happens!
>
>
>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 08:38, Alexandre Uster von Baar
> uster@... mailto:uster@... [amelyachtowners]
> <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Hello Bill (SM#160),
>
>>
>
>> At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
> it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
> felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
> thing so I share my experience.
>
>>
>
>> Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
> “return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
> overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
> etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
> water in my bilge.
>
>>
>
>> Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
> valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
> disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
> ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.
>
>
>>
>
>> Wish I could help more…
>
>>
>
>> Sincerely, Alexandre
>
>> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
>
>> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> --------------------------------------------
>
>> On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... mailto:greatketch@...
> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
> cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change
>
>> To: amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...
>
>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Alexandre
>
>> I am trying to understand what is
>
>> going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
> fuel
>
>> out of a half full tank via the return line, then
> putting a
>
>> shut off valve on it would become become a very high
>
>> priority safety project for me.
>
>> But if the tank is built the
>
>> way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
> happen
>
>> without “magic”, and we are seeing something
> else
>
>> happening.
>
>> You describe a “drop by drop”
>
>> leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
> would
>
>> you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?
>
>> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral, Florida
>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,
>
>> Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... mailto:uster@...
>
>> [amelyachtowners]
> <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...>
>
>> wrote:
>
>> Good morning Bill (SM
>
>> #160),
>
>>
>
>> April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike
>
>> Ondra’s post, I reply:
>
>>
>
>> my injectors (engine) were
>
>> removed to be check/rebuilt
>
>> Somehow fuel was still coming
>
>> drop by drop in the bilge compartment.
>
>> It did not make any
>
>> sense to me as the valve was off.
>
>> I realize the fuel
>
>> was coming from the “return” valve (which still
>
>> doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
> or
>
>> syphon?)
>
>> So I
>
>> disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
> the
>
>> leak stop.
>
>>
>
>> My tank was may be 1/2 full.
>
>>
>
>> It happened to other people as
>
>> well.
>
>>
>
>> One of these things hard to
>
>> understand but that you have to keep in mind.
>
>>
>
>> Sincerely, Alexandre
>
>> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
>
>> Club Nautico de San
>
>> Juan, Puerto Rico
>
>>
>
>> --------------------------------------------
>
>> On Wed, 6/15/16,
>
>> Bill Kinney greatketch@... mailto:greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]
>
>> <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...>
>
>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Subject: Re: Re:
>
>> [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
> after
>
>> fuel filter and oil change
>
>> To: amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...
>
>> Date: Wednesday,
>
>> June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> I am puzzled…
>
>> How can the fuel
>
>> “syphon”
>
>> back
>
>> from the tank through the return line? Amel’s
>
>> drawing of the tank
>
>> does not show a dip tube (and there
>
>> certainly shouldn’t be one!) on
>
>> the return fitting on the
>
>> top of the tank.
>
>> It seems that if the
>
>> only way
>
>> this
>
>> could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
> level
>
>> is up into the fill
>
>> line with NO air in the tank at
>
>> all.
>
>> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort
>
>> Canaveral, Florida
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,
>
>> amelliahona <no_reply@... mailto:no_reply@...>
>
>> wrote:
>
>> Dominique:
>
>> I just replaced my
>
>> electric
>
>> priming
>
>> pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not have
>
>> access at the time
>
>> to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did
>
>> this. I ended up distorting the
>
>> "B-nut" on the
>
>> small copper fuel line that goes
>
>> from the fuel pump to the
>
>> fuel filter adapter and could NOT
>
>> get a proper seal upon
>
>> replacing this line (a continuous
>
>> small seep of fuel that
>
>> was really annoying and messy).
>
>> I had to order a
>
>> replacement line (not that
>
>> expensive) and buy a proper set
>
>> of flare nut wrenches to
>
>> adequately get a seal. I wish I
>
>> could remember the size of the
>
>> flare nut but it was SAE (not
>
>> metric) sized. Make sure the
>
>> fuel tank is low on fuel
>
>> (think 250 liter will work)
>
>> otherwise a continuous stream of
>
>> fuel will flow by syphon from the
>
>> fuel tank fuel return line
>
>> while you make this plumbing
>
>> change. I managed to turn
>
>> this otherwise simple replacement
>
>> into a major project based
>
>> on A) not using the proper tools
>
>> to loosen and re-install
>
>> the B-nut of the fuel line, B)
>
>> not have lowered the fuel in
>
>> the tank (mine was full at the
>
>> time of my work).
>
>>
>
>> Good luck. The pump was
>
>> about
>
>> $65 as I
>
>> recall (not that expensive in the scheme of things)
>
>> and the fuel line
>
>> was about $8
>
>> Sincerely,
>
>> Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM
>
>> #335 Puerto
>
>> Rico
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> #yiv2579808633 #yiv2579808633
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>> --
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>
>> <p>Hello Bill (SM#160), <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> At the time when it happened to me, I didn’t mention
> it on the forum as I couldn’t understand it (and kind of
> felt stupid to be honest), then others mention the same
> thing so I share my experience. <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Yes, absolutely positive, it is coming from the
> “return” line, there was probably 4 liters of diesel
> overnight in the bilge (which I had to empty using cups,
> etc.) difficult to estimate because it was mix with the
> water in my bilge. <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Personally I don’t feel worth the time to install a
> valve on the return line, it is much quicker to simply
> disconnect the hose that goes to it. In the 3.5 years of
> ownership, only needed to disconnect the return line once.
> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Wish I could help more… <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
>
>> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
>
>> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
>
>> On Thu, 6/16/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... mailto:greatketch@...
> [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...>
> wrote:<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS
> cannot restart after fuel filter and oil change<br>
>
>> To: amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...<br>
>
>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2016, 7:13 AM<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Alexandre<br>
>
>> I am trying to understand what is<br>
>
>> going on here… If it really is possible to syphon
> fuel<br>
>
>> out of a half full tank via the return line, then
> putting a<br>
>
>> shut off valve on it would become become a very
> high<br>
>
>> priority safety project for me.<br>
>
>> But if the tank is built the<br>
>
>> way Amel drew it, then it is not possible for this to
> happen<br>
>
>> without “magic”, and we are seeing something
> else<br>
>
>> happening.<br>
>
>> You describe a “drop by drop”<br>
>
>> leak of fuel. How much total fuel leaked this way
> would<br>
>
>> you guess? 10 liters? 5? Less than 1?<br>
>
>> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort Canaveral,
> Florida<br>
>
>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 06:44,<br>
>
>> Alexandre Uster von Baar
> uster@... mailto:uster@...<br>
>
>> [amelyachtowners]
> <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...><br>
>
>> wrote:<br>
>
>> Good morning Bill (SM<br>
>
>> #160), <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> April 28, 2015 in reply to Mike<br>
>
>> Ondra’s post, I reply: <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> my injectors (engine) were<br>
>
>> removed to be check/rebuilt<br>
>
>> Somehow fuel was still coming<br>
>
>> drop by drop in the bilge compartment. <br>
>
>> It did not make any<br>
>
>> sense to me as the valve was off. <br>
>
>> I realize the fuel<br>
>
>> was coming from the “return” valve (which
> still<br>
>
>> doesn’t make any sense… may be some type of suction
> or<br>
>
>> syphon?)<br>
>
>> So I<br>
>
>> disconnected the return rubber fuel line to the tank,
> the<br>
>
>> leak stop. <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> My tank was may be 1/2 full. <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> It happened to other people as<br>
>
>> well. <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> One of these things hard to<br>
>
>> understand but that you have to keep in mind.
> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Sincerely, Alexandre<br>
>
>> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT<br>
>
>> Club Nautico de San<br>
>
>> Juan, Puerto Rico<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>>
> --------------------------------------------<br>
>
>> On Wed, 6/15/16,<br>
>
>> Bill Kinney greatketch@... mailto:greatketch@...
> [amelyachtowners]<br>
>
>> <amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...><br>
>
>> wrote:<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Subject: Re: Re:<br>
>
>> [Amel Yacht Owners] GENSET ONAN CUMMINS cannot restart
> after<br>
>
>> fuel filter and oil change<br>
>
>> To: amelyachtowners@... mailto:amelyachtowners@...<br>
>
>> Date: Wednesday,<br>
>
>> June 15, 2016, 9:21 PM<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> I am puzzled… <br>
>
>> How can the fuel<br>
>
>> “syphon”<br>
>
>> back<br>
>
>> from the tank through the return line?
> Amel’s<br>
>
>> drawing of the tank<br>
>
>> does not show a dip tube (and there<br>
>
>> certainly shouldn’t be one!) on<br>
>
>> the return fitting on the<br>
>
>> top of the tank. <br>
>
>> It seems that if the<br>
>
>> only way<br>
>
>> this<br>
>
>> could happen is if the tank is filled so full the
> level<br>
>
>> is up into the fill<br>
>
>> line with NO air in the tank at<br>
>
>> all.<br>
>
>> Bill KinneySM#160 HarmoniePort<br>
>
>> Canaveral, Florida<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> On Jun 15, 2016, at 21:41,<br>
>
>> amelliahona
> <no_reply@... mailto:no_reply@...><br>
>
>> wrote:<br>
>
>> Dominique:<br>
>
>> I just replaced my<br>
>
>> electric<br>
>
>> priming<br>
>
>> pump on my SM #335 Onan Genset. I did not
> have<br>
>
>> access at the time<br>
>
>> to a proper FLARE NUT WRENCH when I did<br>
>
>> this. I ended up distorting the<br>
>
>> "B-nut" on the<br>
>
>> small copper fuel line that goes<br>
>
>> from the fuel pump to the<br>
>
>> fuel filter adapter and could NOT<br>
>
>> get a proper seal upon<br>
>
>> replacing this line (a continuous<br>
>
>> small seep of fuel that<br>
>
>> was really annoying and messy).<br>
>
>> I had to order a<br>
>
>> replacement line (not that<br>
>
>> expensive) and buy a proper set<br>
>
>> of flare nut wrenches to<br>
>
>> adequately get a seal. I wish I<br>
>
>> could remember the size of the<br>
>
>> flare nut but it was SAE (not<br>
>
>> metric) sized. Make sure the<br>
>
>> fuel tank is low on fuel<br>
>
>> (think 250 liter will work)<br>
>
>> otherwise a continuous stream of<br>
>
>> fuel will flow by syphon from the<br>
>
>> fuel tank fuel return line<br>
>
>> while you make this plumbing<br>
>
>> change. I managed to turn<br>
>
>> this otherwise simple replacement<br>
>
>> into a major project based<br>
>
>> on A) not using the proper tools<br>
>
>> to loosen and re-install<br>
>
>> the B-nut of the fuel line, B)<br>
>
>> not have lowered the fuel in<br>
>
>> the tank (mine was full at the<br>
>
>> time of my work).<br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> Good luck. The pump was<br>
>
>> about<br>
>
>> $65 as I<br>
>
>> recall (not that expensive in the scheme of
> things)<br>
>
>> and the fuel line<br>
>
>> was about $8<br>
>
>> Sincerely, <br>
>
>> Gary S. Silvers/v LiahonaAmel SM<br>
>
>> #335 Puerto<br>
>
>> Rico <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
>> <br>
>
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>
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>
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>
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

I forgot a question Ian,

Since you have the same Spade I have. What type of care or maintenance do you do for your anchor?

I did not know anchor needed to be “maintained” (aside washing them after sailing and anchoring and regalvanized after a few years)
Here is how mine look like http://www.nikimat.com/spade_anchor.html which is the reason why Spade is sending me a new one…

So what do you do to maintain your anchor?

Would love to hear back from everybody.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/18/16, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 3:50 PM

Alexandre , 
   
         Why do
you need two anchors ? We have a 30 kg Spade which has coped
in all conditions . We carry an aluminium version 15 kg ,
with a couple of meters of chain which we keep in the port
bow locker " just in case " . We  have used it
once in anger in 55,000 miles and over 1,000 anchorages in
16 years and that was to pull a French yacht off the beach
in Brazil. We attached 100 meters of line , dug the anchor
in and used his winches to save his boat .
Modern anchors , given enough scope , are man
enough for most conditions .
Get your
anchor securely dug in and then pay out as much chain as you
can . Chain remaining on board serves no purpose .

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM
302 , At anchor in Greece
>
On 18 Jun 2016, at 00:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I won’t explain
how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but
if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend,
you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”). 
>
> So my question is:
how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and
Spade 30). 
> As far as I know, my
anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the
roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can
teach me its use). 
> http://www.nikimat.com/anchor_roller.html
>
> To me, it seems more
logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily
deployable.
> but I am open the
opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a
windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor
roller there, etc.)
>
>
> My next question is
how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors… 
> Weight is starting to seriously get a
problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter /
300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs). 

> So what would be the “minimum”
still safe combination chain (+ rope). 
> I know the chain will be 10 mm and the
rode should be 7/8” 
>
> Thanks in advance… 
>
> Sincerely,
Alexandre
> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto
Rico
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups
Links
>
>
>


------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Traditional

    (Yahoo! ID required)

    amelyachtowners-fullfeatured@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Ian,

Well, I explained the story on FB how I end up with 2… In short I later discovered about the lifetime warranty on the spade, and it was too late to cancel the rocma which arrived the day after I cancel it…

So now have 2 and trying to cope the best with the situation.

But I will add that my current insurance ask for a minimum of 3 anchors in case of storm, I don’t intend to be in one, but should it be the case I also want to be covered.

I rarely anchor, but when I do I also put pretty much all the chain, as you say onboard serves no purpose…

Thanks for your reply Ian, sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/18/16, Ian & Judy ianjudyjenkins@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 3:50 PM

Alexandre , 
   
         Why do
you need two anchors ? We have a 30 kg Spade which has coped
in all conditions . We carry an aluminium version 15 kg ,
with a couple of meters of chain which we keep in the port
bow locker " just in case " . We  have used it
once in anger in 55,000 miles and over 1,000 anchorages in
16 years and that was to pull a French yacht off the beach
in Brazil. We attached 100 meters of line , dug the anchor
in and used his winches to save his boat .
Modern anchors , given enough scope , are man
enough for most conditions .
Get your
anchor securely dug in and then pay out as much chain as you
can . Chain remaining on board serves no purpose .

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM
302 , At anchor in Greece
>
On 18 Jun 2016, at 00:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> Good afternoon,
>
> I won’t explain
how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but
if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend,
you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”). 
>
> So my question is:
how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and
Spade 30). 
> As far as I know, my
anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the
roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can
teach me its use). 
> http://www.nikimat.com/anchor_roller.html
>
> To me, it seems more
logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily
deployable.
> but I am open the
opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a
windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor
roller there, etc.)
>
>
> My next question is
how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors… 
> Weight is starting to seriously get a
problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter /
300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs). 

> So what would be the “minimum”
still safe combination chain (+ rope). 
> I know the chain will be 10 mm and the
rode should be 7/8” 
>
> Thanks in advance… 
>
> Sincerely,
Alexandre
> SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
> Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto
Rico
>
>
> ------------------------------------
> Posted by: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo Groups
Links
>
>
>


------------------------------------

------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links


Traditional

    (Yahoo! ID required)

    amelyachtowners-fullfeatured@...


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Alexandre ,
Why do you need two anchors ? We have a 30 kg Spade which has coped in all conditions . We carry an aluminium version 15 kg , with a couple of meters of chain which we keep in the port bow locker " just in case " . We have used it once in anger in 55,000 miles and over 1,000 anchorages in 16 years and that was to pull a French yacht off the beach in Brazil. We attached 100 meters of line , dug the anchor in and used his winches to save his boat .
Modern anchors , given enough scope , are man enough for most conditions .
Get your anchor securely dug in and then pay out as much chain as you can . Chain remaining on board serves no purpose .

Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302 , At anchor in Greece

On 18 Jun 2016, at 00:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:



Good afternoon,

I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”).

So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).
As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can teach me its use).
http://www.nikimat.com/anchor_roller.html

To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily deployable.
but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor roller there, etc.)


My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors…
Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).
So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination chain (+ rope).
I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”

Thanks in advance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico


------------------------------------
Posted by: Alexandre Uster von Baar <uster@...>
------------------------------------


------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

James Alton
 

JPG,
   This sounds like a pretty good solution for a secondary anchor to me and I might duplicate it.  It makes sense to minimize the weight of the rode  since it sounds like you will have to manhandle that rode.  Scope angle and the anchor itself determine the holding power in my experience.  So while lots of chain is nice, I have done quite well using longer chain/line rodes which can take a lot of weight out of the bow.  I have read that there are concerns about the high test chains having a lower corrosion resistance but I have not personally noticed it being a problem.
   
Best,
James


Sent from Samsung Mobile



-------- Original message --------
From: "Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 06-18-2016 4:07 AM (GMT-04:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow


 

Hello Alexandre,


Although Bob Grey’s boat is quite different from ours, his comment “ I rarely use a second anchor” should be considered.  

My option was not to install a second anchor but to keep a second anchor in a strong containment box with 30 meters 8 MM G70 chain and 100 meter line rode in the port bow locker.  My main anchor is a 35 KG Ultra with 100 meter followed by 50 meters of line rode.  Less engineering involved and the 8 MM G70 grade is quite stronger than 100 MM G40.  Only meant changing the gypsy to 8 MM.   

The 8 MM weight difference is significant lower than the 10 MM.  Worth consideration as well.

Have a look here, Viv Cox is a well known UK metallurgist (long term cruiser).  He knows his stuff and I know him personally.


Good luck.


Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007


On 18 Jun 2016, at 02:01, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexander, I run two anchors on my Amel 55, but also two anchor winches, so it's a main starboard anchor with 100 meters chain and a port anchor with 10 meters of chain and 60 meters of rope.


I'm very happy with the setup although I rarely use the second anchor. 


Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 



Good afternoon,

I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”).

So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).
As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can teach me its use).
Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000 


Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000

Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000




To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily deployable.
but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor roller there, etc.)

My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors…
Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).
So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination chain (+ rope).
I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”

Thanks in advance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



Posted by: Bob Grey <renaissanceiii@...>
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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Bill,

Well I hope I am not starting a fight on the forum, not my intention at all!
I am just trying to find the best location for my unexpected 2nd anchor…

You have the same anchor as Kent (SM 243 Kristy) which I had the pleasure to meet a few weeks ago and tour each other’s boat.
I like the Rocna 40, the only reason I did not go with it was because Rocna suggest an 11 mm chain (and I currently have a 10 and no intention to change it soon).
Rocna also wrote they discourage over-sizing as they already did it http://kb.rocna.com/kb/Rocna_sizing_recommendations
but regardless my decision was based on the chain.

Since I currently have 10 mm chain, I already decided this is what i will use for the 2nd one. Only unknown is how long and so far I heard 1 or 2 boat length.

Back on the … people on the dock point and laugh.
This was my case once 3 years ago in Seabrook, some people laugh at how many fenders I had (which was 10). I had my boat for only a few weeks and obviously didn’t want to scratch it.
3 years later, especially after 2 bad experiences: last August in Staniel’s Cay, right after hurricane Joaquin with 25 kt of west wind pushing me against the T dock, broke 5 fender, fender board, I used all I can including life jacket to protect the boat. Second experience was september last year also in the Exumas, at Emerald Bay marina, a beautiful facility but notorious for its horrible surge. Surge so strong the cleat of the dock would break in half… and again more fender destroyed… won’t mention neighbors that accidentally hit the side, so now I have even more fenders !

As always thanks for your message!
Hope you get a weather window soon!

Sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/18/16, Bill Kinney greatketch@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 12:19 PM


 









Alexandre,
One sure fire way to start a
fight in a bar frequented by sailors is to start talking
about anchors!  Everybody has very strong opinions, and
very few facts. One rule I have always liked:  You know you
have a big enough anchor on your cruising boat if people who
walk by on the dock point and laugh.
With modern anchors (like the
Rocna, Mantus, Manson...) the number of places where I would
anchor and want a different TYPE of anchor ready to go on my
bow are very small.  In fact I can’t think of
one.
It is true that weight in the bow
of the boat is BAD, but it is also true that weight in the
anchor chain is GOOD.  More bow weight certainly interferes
with the performance of the boat, more weight in the chain
makes the anchor work better because it gives more cantenary
in stronger winds.  There is no free lunch. Going to a
smaller, high strength chain does have a downside that is
frequently forgotten.  My (probably controversial) opinion:
 Leave the high test chain to the race boats where weight
is more important than anchor performance.
It is unusual that I anchor with
two anchors both off the bow.  When I do use a second
anchor, it is usually off the stern.  Having a second
anchor rigged and ready on a bow roller has never been a
priority for me. I prefer to rig one LARGE anchor (on my SM
I have a Rocna 40) on the bow.  According to Rocna that is
a size bigger than I “need” but I like that idea. A
spare anchor is stored separately in case the main anchor is
lost.  I can then use a heavy anchor and 10mm chain without
too seriously impacting the boat’s performance because
there is only one up on the bow.
For secondary anchor rodes that
are a mix of chain and line, there is no good logic for how
long to make the chain.  One “rule” is chain equal to
the length of the boat, but I can’t figure out why that
should be the answer.  More chain is better for anchor
performance, less chain is better for storage and ease of
retrieval.  Ten or fifteen meters seems like a good number
to me, but I confess to not having a scientific reason for
why I have more than 5 or less than 20.
Bill KinneySM160, HarmoniePort Canaveral FL, waiting (patiently) for a weather
window north



On Jun 18, 2016, at 06:47,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
Good morning Bob and Jean Pierre
thanks for your reply, 

I have seen the Amel 54 and 55
and love the way they put 2 windlasses, anchors, etc. 
But only 10 meters
of chain?  

Will look at the link Jean
Pierre. 

Hope I get more replies.

Thanks again, sincerely,
Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/18/16,
Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel
Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, June
18, 2016, 2:07 AM


 









Hello Alexandre,
Although Bob Grey’s boat is
quite different from
ours, his comment “ I rarely use a
second anchor” should be
considered.  
My
option was not to install a
second anchor but to keep a
second anchor in a strong
containment box with 30 meters 8
MM G70 chain and 100 meter
line rode in the port bow locker.
 My main anchor is a 35
KG Ultra with 100 meter followed
by 50 meters of line rode.
 Less engineering involved and
the 8 MM G70 grade is quite
stronger than 100 MM G40.  Only
meant changing the gypsy to
8 MM.   
The 8 MM weight difference is
significant lower
than the 10 MM.  Worth consideration as
well.
Have a look here, Viv Cox is a
well known UK
metallurgist (long term cruiser).  He knows
his stuff and I know him
personally.
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx
Good luck.

Jean-Pierre Germain,SY Eleuthera,
Amel Super Maramu
007

On 18 Jun 2016, at 02:01, Bob
Grey @BobGrey
[amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 




Alexander, I run two anchors on
my Amel 55, but also two
anchor winches, so it's a
main starboard anchor with 100
meters chain and a port anchor
with 10 meters of chain and
60 meters of rope.
I'm very happy
with the setup
although I rarely use the second
anchor. 

Bob GreyRenaissance
3Amel 55 #25


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08,
Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners]
<amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 










Good afternoon, 



I won’t explain how I end up
with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and
a Spade 30), but if curious, I
posted the story on FB (if
you are not friend, you can find
me under: “Amel
NIKIMAT”).  



So my question is: how I can set
my vessel for 2 main
anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade
30).  

As far as I know, my anchor
roller can only accommodate 1
anchor (I think the roller on the
left/port is for a rope -
may be someone can teach me its
use).  

Anchor
Roller Amel Super Maramu
2000 























Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu
2000Anchor Roller Amel Super
Maramu 2000











To me, it seems more logical to
have 2 anchors on the bow,
with both easily deployable. 

but I am open the
opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super
maramu with a windlass on the
stern, but then how do you set
an anchor roller there, etc.)



My next question is how much
anchor rode for the 2 main
anchors…  

Weight is starting to seriously
get a problem… I doubt it
will be wise to add another 90
meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain
(which weight 200 kg or 450
lbs).  

So what would be the
“minimum” still safe combination
chain (+ rope).  

I know the chain will be 10 mm
and the rode should be 7/8”




Thanks in advance…  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto
Rico


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Paul,  Andrew et al,

I installed the Ray SHD with a 4 foot bar antenna.  It serves more than one purpose: navigation, weather avoidance and ship safety.

But I have considerable experience with radar having been a pilot for decades.  For instance, this winter, while living aboard I gave repeated courses on how to use a radar… I was also surprized at how many owners had not one clue how to use it.

As a demonstration, while in harbour, I chose 1/8 mile scale and by manually reducing the gain, I could paint the “fairway” and distinguish the various masts ahead of us…. people were agog by this… yet it is simply knowing how to operate your equipment.  Also another convenient demonstration was when a a squall developed about 40 miles away.  I placed a marker on the main cell, noted the time and 6 minutes later took another bearing/distance on the cell.  It gave me a direction and speed of movement, which you definitely want to know when at sea if you want to avoid a squall or thunderstorm.

I highly recommend you RTFM on your radar and read the following .pdf.  

Lastly, this is just like sex… the more you use it, the better you get :-).  Use it EVERY TIME YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY!!!


Cheers,



Jean-Pierre Germain
SY Eleuthera, SM 007



On 18 Jun 2016, at 18:37, osterberg.paul.l@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hello Andrew, Concerning radar, 

My experience concerning radar is rather limited, before we bought our SM, I have sailed two boats with radar together totally three month. Both of them where equipped with "standard" Raymarine radars, today they would be 5 -6 years old. My general thought after my experience with them was, why do people bother to install this expensive equipment as they to me act more like toys. No way we could see smal vessels even at moderate sea. and mid size vessel was maybe one or two pixels that light up.
So it was with not very high expectation we turned on our Furuno Radar (opend ray antenna 6 kw from 1998) with "gren screen". To our surprise we can easily see very small vessels even though our screen is down at the nav table and we sitt at the "captains" chair in the cockpit. we are super pleased with it, we have only used it in moderate conditions so fare. But a friend of mine who are a naval officer sin 30 years back, was inpressad with the installed radar, so I would not change it until it give up on it's own.
That's my view for what it's worth
Regards
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259

Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (18)

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Alexandre,

One sure fire way to start a fight in a bar frequented by sailors is to start talking about anchors!  Everybody has very strong opinions, and very few facts. One rule I have always liked:  You know you have a big enough anchor on your cruising boat if people who walk by on the dock point and laugh.

With modern anchors (like the Rocna, Mantus, Manson...) the number of places where I would anchor and want a different TYPE of anchor ready to go on my bow are very small.  In fact I can’t think of one.

It is true that weight in the bow of the boat is BAD, but it is also true that weight in the anchor chain is GOOD.  More bow weight certainly interferes with the performance of the boat, more weight in the chain makes the anchor work better because it gives more cantenary in stronger winds.  There is no free lunch. Going to a smaller, high strength chain does have a downside that is frequently forgotten.  My (probably controversial) opinion:  Leave the high test chain to the race boats where weight is more important than anchor performance.

It is unusual that I anchor with two anchors both off the bow.  When I do use a second anchor, it is usually off the stern.  Having a second anchor rigged and ready on a bow roller has never been a priority for me. I prefer to rig one LARGE anchor (on my SM I have a Rocna 40) on the bow.  According to Rocna that is a size bigger than I “need” but I like that idea. A spare anchor is stored separately in case the main anchor is lost.  I can then use a heavy anchor and 10mm chain without too seriously impacting the boat’s performance because there is only one up on the bow.

For secondary anchor rodes that are a mix of chain and line, there is no good logic for how long to make the chain.  One “rule” is chain equal to the length of the boat, but I can’t figure out why that should be the answer.  More chain is better for anchor performance, less chain is better for storage and ease of retrieval.  Ten or fifteen meters seems like a good number to me, but I confess to not having a scientific reason for why I have more than 5 or less than 20.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Port Canaveral FL, 
waiting (patiently) for a weather window north




On Jun 18, 2016, at 06:47, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Good morning Bob and Jean Pierre thanks for your reply, 

I have seen the Amel 54 and 55 and love the way they put 2 windlasses, anchors, etc. 
But only 10 meters of chain?  

Will look at the link Jean Pierre. 

Hope I get more replies.

Thanks again, sincerely, Alexandre

--------------------------------------------
On Sat, 6/18/16, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 2:07 AM


 









Hello Alexandre,
Although Bob Grey’s boat is
quite different from ours, his comment “ I rarely use a
second anchor” should be considered.  
My option was not to install a
second anchor but to keep a second anchor in a strong
containment box with 30 meters 8 MM G70 chain and 100 meter
line rode in the port bow locker.  My main anchor is a 35
KG Ultra with 100 meter followed by 50 meters of line rode.
 Less engineering involved and the 8 MM G70 grade is quite
stronger than 100 MM G40.  Only meant changing the gypsy to
8 MM.   
The 8 MM weight difference is
significant lower than the 10 MM.  Worth consideration as
well.
Have a look here, Viv Cox is a
well known UK metallurgist (long term cruiser).  He knows
his stuff and I know him personally.
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx
Good luck.

Jean-Pierre Germain,SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu
007

On 18 Jun 2016, at 02:01, Bob
Grey renaissanceiii@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 




Alexander, I run two anchors on my Amel 55, but also two
anchor winches, so it's a main starboard anchor with 100
meters chain and a port anchor with 10 meters of chain and
60 meters of rope.
I'm very happy with the setup
although I rarely use the second anchor. 

Bob GreyRenaissance 3Amel 55 #25


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 










Good afternoon, 



I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and
a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if
you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel
NIKIMAT”).  



So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main
anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).  

As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1
anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope -
may be someone can teach me its use).  

Anchor
Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000 























Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000Anchor Roller Amel Super
Maramu 2000











To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow,
with both easily deployable. 

but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super
maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set
an anchor roller there, etc.)



My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main
anchors…  

Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it
will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain
(which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).  

So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination
chain (+ rope).  

I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”




Thanks in advance…  



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico





























Posted by: Bob Grey <renaissanceiii@...>





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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Paul Osterberg
 

Hello Andrew, Concerning radar, 
My experience concerning radar is rather limited, before we bought our SM, I have sailed two boats with radar together totally three month. Both of them where equipped with "standard" Raymarine radars, today they would be 5 -6 years old. My general thought after my experience with them was, why do people bother to install this expensive equipment as they to me act more like toys. No way we could see smal vessels even at moderate sea. and mid size vessel was maybe one or two pixels that light up.
So it was with not very high expectation we turned on our Furuno Radar (opend ray antenna 6 kw from 1998) with "gren screen". To our surprise we can easily see very small vessels even though our screen is down at the nav table and we sitt at the "captains" chair in the cockpit. we are super pleased with it, we have only used it in moderate conditions so fare. But a friend of mine who are a naval officer sin 30 years back, was inpressad with the installed radar, so I would not change it until it give up on it's own.
That's my view for what it's worth
Regards
Paul on S/Y Kerpa SM#259


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel surveyor- Florida /osmosis

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Christian

 

Are you across on the dry at the moment with the very rusty keel and the anti-fouling stripped right back? We were out a few weeks ago and noticed a maramu being extensively worked on?

 

Andrew

Ronpische SM472

 

From: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Reply-To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, 18 June 2016 at 18:07
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel surveyor- Florida /osmosis

 

 

sorry I barged in on the conversation, but emails appeared after I tried to register on the forum, & Yahoo gave me access to the group.

Here are my credentials, Christian Alby, Désirade VIII, Maramu Nr 116 (1982), located in Canet South of France on the Med.

Rebuilding (breaking down & refitting) a boat which has been laid up for the last 13 months, I do meet loads of wear & tear to correct before setting sail.

fair winds to you

christian Alby, Désirade VIII, Maramu 116 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Amel surveyor- Florida /osmosis

calbyy@...
 

sorry I barged in on the conversation, but emails appeared after I tried to register on the forum, & Yahoo gave me access to the group.
Here are my credentials, Christian Alby, Désirade VIII, Maramu Nr 116 (1982), located in Canet South of France on the Med.
Rebuilding (breaking down & refitting) a boat which has been laid up for the last 13 months, I do meet loads of wear & tear to correct before setting sail.
fair winds to you
christian Alby, Désirade VIII, Maramu 116 


Re: Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Francesco,
As you'll recall, we've got similar B&G equipment, although we do not have the ZG100. I wanted to use the NAIS-400 GPS antenna as master, but could not find it in the menus. A tech guy at B&G then said that it was dedicated to the NAIS, does not "talk" on the network and, hence, cannot be selected as master.  We just use the Zeus2 7 or 12 and, as you note, they work perfectly.  If you found a way to access NAIS GPS in the menu, I'd love to know - or is it the ZG100 you access?
By the way, I recall us chatting about the Autopilot controller - they had just come out with the WR10 wireless remote when we bought our equipment. They had some early software glitches with it but last November's release totally cured that. It's become our favorite bit of gear you might want.
Are you guys heading east toward Portofino and LaSpezia? If so, give Livorno a try - we thought it would be a bit dingy but it was excellent - kind of a "poor man's Venice" where you can dinghy around the canals and the downtown area is super. Free bikes at the marina, too.
Hugs to Odette,
Craig and Katherine

---In amelyachtowners@..., <svperegrinus@...> wrote :

Yes, we also have 3 GPS sources:

1.  The B&G ZG100 GPS sensor
2.  The GPS built into the B&G Zeus2
3.  The GPS antenna dedicated to the B&G AIS (NAIS-400)

Any of those can be set as the "master" for the entire network.  I've switched among them on the fly and tried to see if there was any difference in position or SOG, and as expected, there was nothing discernible.

Cheerio,
Peregrinus
SM2K n. 350



Electronic Connections NMEA, Navigation, B&G, Raymarine, etc.

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I uploaded a general diagram of the electronic connections on BeBe SM387.

You should be able to link to it here:

Bill
BeBe 387
Currently Grenada

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:57 PM, Andrew Lamb andrew.lamb@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Colin

 

I am interested in your plan to keep the original Furuno radar – we are thinking of upgrading also to a new Raymarine Radar but had thought more in terms of replacing the Furuno and how to adapt the existing fixtures. Just interested in your reasoning for keeping the original radar as well.

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

Ronspische sm472

 

 

From: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Reply-To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, 18 June 2016 at 14:31
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

 

 

Thanks all for a most interesting discussion on nav systems upgrades. Always interesting to compare what others are doing.

 

Bill thank you I would be most interested to see your navigation electronics schematic and will have a look at it on the Yahoo site when we have better internet again.

 

Forgot to mention we also have one of the new Raymarine Quantum Radar's on back order, and hence adding the ES97 for better connectivity to that. Like the 4G Navico ones we hope it will be more accurate at picking out close and small targets like kayaks, channel markers or unlit small fishing boats (Indonesia) in fog and or at night. Will be in addition to the existing Furuno Amel installed radar on a 2nd radar platform 600mm below the existing one.

 

Colin Streeter

Island Pearl II Amel53 #332

 

 

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:05 PM, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thank you crew for all your input, it is appreciated. We have gone ahead with the purchase of a Raymarine ES97MFD so we will see what transpires over the next few weeks, if interested I will let you know how the installation goes.

 

Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM # 171



 

--

Colin Streeter

0411 016 445



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

Andrew & Kate Lamb
 

Colin

 

I am interested in your plan to keep the original Furuno radar – we are thinking of upgrading also to a new Raymarine Radar but had thought more in terms of replacing the Furuno and how to adapt the existing fixtures. Just interested in your reasoning for keeping the original radar as well.

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

Ronspische sm472

 

 

From: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...> on behalf of "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Reply-To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: Saturday, 18 June 2016 at 14:31
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

 

 

Thanks all for a most interesting discussion on nav systems upgrades. Always interesting to compare what others are doing.

 

Bill thank you I would be most interested to see your navigation electronics schematic and will have a look at it on the Yahoo site when we have better internet again.

 

Forgot to mention we also have one of the new Raymarine Quantum Radar's on back order, and hence adding the ES97 for better connectivity to that. Like the 4G Navico ones we hope it will be more accurate at picking out close and small targets like kayaks, channel markers or unlit small fishing boats (Indonesia) in fog and or at night. Will be in addition to the existing Furuno Amel installed radar on a 2nd radar platform 600mm below the existing one.

 

Colin Streeter

Island Pearl II Amel53 #332

 

 

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:05 PM, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Thank you crew for all your input, it is appreciated. We have gone ahead with the purchase of a Raymarine ES97MFD so we will see what transpires over the next few weeks, if interested I will let you know how the installation goes.

 

Kind Regards

Barry & Robyn

Tradewinds III SM # 171



 

--

Colin Streeter

0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

islandpearl2_sm2k332
 

Thanks all for a most interesting discussion on nav systems upgrades. Always interesting to compare what others are doing.

Bill thank you I would be most interested to see your navigation electronics schematic and will have a look at it on the Yahoo site when we have better internet again.

Forgot to mention we also have one of the new Raymarine Quantum Radar's on back order, and hence adding the ES97 for better connectivity to that. Like the 4G Navico ones we hope it will be more accurate at picking out close and small targets like kayaks, channel markers or unlit small fishing boats (Indonesia) in fog and or at night. Will be in addition to the existing Furuno Amel installed radar on a 2nd radar platform 600mm below the existing one.

Colin Streeter
Island Pearl II Amel53 #332


On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 3:05 PM, seagasm@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Thank you crew for all your input, it is appreciated. We have gone ahead with the purchase of a Raymarine ES97MFD so we will see what transpires over the next few weeks, if interested I will let you know how the installation goes.


Kind Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171




--
Colin Streeter
0411 016 445


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good morning Bob and Jean Pierre thanks for your reply,

I have seen the Amel 54 and 55 and love the way they put 2 windlasses, anchors, etc.
But only 10 meters of chain?

Will look at the link Jean Pierre.

Hope I get more replies.

Thanks again, sincerely, Alexandre




--------------------------------------------

On Sat, 6/18/16, Germain Jean-Pierre jgermain@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Saturday, June 18, 2016, 2:07 AM


 









Hello Alexandre,
Although Bob Grey’s boat is
quite different from ours, his comment “ I rarely use a
second anchor” should be considered.  
My option was not to install a
second anchor but to keep a second anchor in a strong
containment box with 30 meters 8 MM G70 chain and 100 meter
line rode in the port bow locker.  My main anchor is a 35
KG Ultra with 100 meter followed by 50 meters of line rode.
 Less engineering involved and the 8 MM G70 grade is quite
stronger than 100 MM G40.  Only meant changing the gypsy to
8 MM.   
The 8 MM weight difference is
significant lower than the 10 MM.  Worth consideration as
well.
Have a look here, Viv Cox is a
well known UK metallurgist (long term cruiser).  He knows
his stuff and I know him personally.
http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Chaindefinitions.aspx
Good luck.

Jean-Pierre Germain,SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu
007

On 18 Jun 2016, at 02:01, Bob
Grey @BobGrey
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:















 




Alexander, I run two anchors on my Amel 55, but also two
anchor winches, so it's a main starboard anchor with 100
meters chain and a port anchor with 10 meters of chain and
60 meters of rope.
I'm very happy with the setup
although I rarely use the second anchor. 

Bob GreyRenaissance 3Amel 55 #25


Sent from Yahoo Mail for
iPad

On
Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@...
[amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>
wrote:
 










Good afternoon,



I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and
a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if
you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel
NIKIMAT”).



So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main
anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).

As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1
anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope -
may be someone can teach me its use).

Anchor
Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000 























Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000Anchor Roller Amel Super
Maramu 2000











To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow,
with both easily deployable.

but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super
maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set
an anchor roller there, etc.)



My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main
anchors…

Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it
will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain
(which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).

So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination
chain (+ rope).

I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”




Thanks in advance…



Sincerely, Alexandre

SM2K #289 NIKIMAT

Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico





























Posted by: Bob Grey <@BobGrey>





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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] 2nd Main Anchor on bow

Germain Jean-Pierre <jgermain@...>
 

Hello Alexandre,

Although Bob Grey’s boat is quite different from ours, his comment “ I rarely use a second anchor” should be considered.  

My option was not to install a second anchor but to keep a second anchor in a strong containment box with 30 meters 8 MM G70 chain and 100 meter line rode in the port bow locker.  My main anchor is a 35 KG Ultra with 100 meter followed by 50 meters of line rode.  Less engineering involved and the 8 MM G70 grade is quite stronger than 100 MM G40.  Only meant changing the gypsy to 8 MM.   

The 8 MM weight difference is significant lower than the 10 MM.  Worth consideration as well.

Have a look here, Viv Cox is a well known UK metallurgist (long term cruiser).  He knows his stuff and I know him personally.


Good luck.


Jean-Pierre Germain,
SY Eleuthera, Amel Super Maramu 007


On 18 Jun 2016, at 02:01, Bob Grey renaissanceiii@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Alexander, I run two anchors on my Amel 55, but also two anchor winches, so it's a main starboard anchor with 100 meters chain and a port anchor with 10 meters of chain and 60 meters of rope.


I'm very happy with the setup although I rarely use the second anchor. 


Bob Grey
Renaissance 3
Amel 55 #25


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Saturday, June 18, 2016, 07:08, Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 



Good afternoon,

I won’t explain how I end up with 2 anchors (Rocna 33 and a Spade 30), but if curious, I posted the story on FB (if you are not friend, you can find me under: “Amel NIKIMAT”).

So my question is: how I can set my vessel for 2 main anchors (Rocna 33 and Spade 30).
As far as I know, my anchor roller can only accommodate 1 anchor (I think the roller on the left/port is for a rope - may be someone can teach me its use).
Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000 


Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000

Anchor Roller Amel Super Maramu 2000




To me, it seems more logical to have 2 anchors on the bow, with both easily deployable.
but I am open the opinion/suggestion (I have seen a super maramu with a windlass on the stern, but then how do you set an anchor roller there, etc.)

My next question is how much anchor rode for the 2 main anchors…
Weight is starting to seriously get a problem… I doubt it will be wise to add another 90 meter / 300 ft of 10 mm chain (which weight 200 kg or 450 lbs).
So what would be the “minimum” still safe combination chain (+ rope).
I know the chain will be 10 mm and the rode should be 7/8”

Thanks in advance…

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Club Nautico de San Juan, Puerto Rico



Posted by: Bob Grey <renaissanceiii@...>
Reply via web post Reply to sender Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (2)

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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

seagasm
 

Thank you crew for all your input, it is appreciated. We have gone ahead with the purchase of a Raymarine ES97MFD so we will see what transpires over the next few weeks, if interested I will let you know how the installation goes.

Kind Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Upgrade to Raymarine ES97 MFD

seagasm
 

Hello Bill & Judy, thank you for your valued input. Any help would be appreciated as this is definitely a new learning curve for me, mixing and matching equipment. I suppose this is typical with purchasing a used boat, no documentation and may people previously installing or changing equipment. Fortunately I am gathering information and documenting a library that hopefully will be useful for the next owner. My e-mail is seagasm at gmail dot com and yes, anything of value towards this exercise would be truly grateful.

Kind Regards
Barry & Robyn
Tradewinds III SM # 171