Date   

Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Jeroen jeltes
 

sorry, i never said i made holes in the bulkheads .


Re: Starting Capacitor size for a 220v, 50Hz 2.5 kw water maker high pressure motor

Jose Venegas
 

After major surgery getting the motor/pump out of the engine room (there was no way I could get the back cover out) I found that after turning the motor by hand IT IS WORKING YEEEA!.
So, Mark you were correct. Now I need to get the motor do some excessive (we all s would do that during this COVID19 time) and I will be getting a newer (larger) capacitor next Monday. As usual, fixing one problem on an old boat usually means you break more part. In my case, the low pressure water inlet fitting to the pump broke in peaces when I tried to remove the hose. So, now I have a piece if the fitting inside the pump that I have to remove with a 1/2 in extractor that I have to buy on Monday together with a new fitting. Well that is the way it is, and I am very happy I don’t have to buy a new motor. (at least I hope so). Tomorrow I will know after I make it exercise for a couple of hours.)

Thank you Mark and Amel Group.

Jose and Magnolia
Ipanema SM2k, 278
Happily stuck in Grenada for another month


Re: Self Insurance

Porter McRoberts
 

All. 
I spoke to My insurance agent Rob at Novamar. 
Some of you might know and use them. Specifically they were open to administering the program. They are reinsurers and have been quite capable and responsive in my limited interactions. Additionally they are sailors. Not sure if this would be a way to go. 

I am of course interested as well. I think if we’ll done we’d have tremendous interest. 


Porter A54-152 ibis. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.net

On May 23, 2020, at 10:38 PM, karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi all,
Because we have had very few responses, we think that the uncertainty and amateurish sound of the initial posts has made people leery, and rightfully so.  Teun (Amelit A54) and Ken (Aquarious SM 2K) have some insurance knowledge and contacts they think might be able to help us out together a workable hybrid plan.  We are taking this discussion private until we have something more concrete to present. If anyone else wants to be in the loop as we discuss options, please let me know by private email.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: Self Insurance

karkauai
 

Hi all,
Because we have had very few responses, we think that the uncertainty and amateurish sound of the initial posts has made people leery, and rightfully so.  Teun (Amelit A54) and Ken (Aquarious SM 2K) have some insurance knowledge and contacts they think might be able to help us out together a workable hybrid plan.  We are taking this discussion private until we have something more concrete to present. If anyone else wants to be in the loop as we discuss options, please let me know by private email.
Kent
SM243
Kristy


Re: lowering mainsail

Alan Leslie
 

Hi  Bill,

"Trying to find a line, bend it on and then .."

We have dedicated messenger lines for both main and mizzen halyards in the port side aft cockpit locker ready to go. A size smaller than the actual halyards means the bowline you tie through the loop on the halyard end goes through the mast slot with no real problem.

The Amel system certainly serves to reduce the amount of line there is swinging around the masts when sailing.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 - stuck in New Zealand, and me stuck in Australia!


Re: lowering mainsail

Arno Luijten
 

Hi William,

This is not unique for Amel. Oyster, Hallberg Rassy and other do the same for the bigger yachts. If you have 18 meters or more of mast the halyards become very, very long. As you rarely lover the sail anyway the tail of this halyard will be dangling at the base of the mast for almost eternity. This is not very practical. So what you do is you use a half-halyard with a Flemish-eye at the tail side. This eye is used to tie as mouseline to  (I'm using 6mm dyneema) if you need to lower the mainsail or genua.
This mouse-line sits normally in one of the cockpit lockers and is not used for other purposes.
On the Amet 54 you have a special track slider to tension the main halyard once it's up. I think the A55 has a secondary slide for the Genua as well.

Kind regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Mike Longcor (SV Trilogy)
 

Hi Jeroen,

It's not clear to me... where did you run the discharge hose for the new pump?

These bilge compartments should always be dry so a high water alarm is usually sufficient for those rare times you have any liquid in there. Key words are "should" and "usually", but in my experience the only liquids have come from leaking provisions.

Cheers,
Mike Longcor
SV Trilogy SM23
Opua, NZ


Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Arno Luijten
 

On the  topic of Bilge Pumps, what I find a bigger worry is the main bilge-pump can fail because of bad working valves. These are small rubber flaps inside the pump that start their career flat but over time become concave of shape. This can lead to (mainly the output valve) bad closing of this valve resulting in poor or no pumping action. You can replace the valves pretty easy and Amel sells the replacements.

This bilge-pump has a rough life as it needs to pump out quite some litres per day. Making sure you do not flush any solids in the sinks helps of course but I find the absence of a fall-back pump very annoying. There is a sensor that will send out an alarm if the bilge is over-flowing but it's position is not great to say the least. The water level will be quite high before that thing sends off an alarm. When the alarm sounds you will need to operate the manual bilge-pump as soon as you can and you will need to pump quite a lot of water overboard before the level is back to acceptable levels.

Because of this I recently installed a secondary electric bilge pump with it's own solid state sensor next to the bilge-pit. The sensor sits at the top of the bilge-pit, so it will start the secondary pump before the pit overflows. It also has an alarm connected to the circuit to notify us about the problem.

At least if now the primary pump fails I'm not forced to use the manual pump unless there is a huge ingress of water for whatever reason.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: lowering mainsail

 

Since the main and mizzen are in-mast furling sails and rarely dropped, having short halyards for the main and mizzen reduces line clutter on the deck. It is actually simple to use a messenger for both.


Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sat, May 23, 2020, 5:33 PM william reynolds <sail23692@...> wrote:
I've looked at all the old topics concerning dropping the furling mainsail and found a lot of  'what was Amel thinking'? on the length of the main halyard.  I've sailed many, many boats in my life but have never seen a furling main that could not be lowered with the installed halyard. One of the times you would w ant to lower it would be because of a mainsail failure/jam and it's probably going to be in adverse conditions. Trying to find a line, bend it on and then attempt to lower the main these   conditions  is not a safe prudent solution. Why did they do this? What was the reasoning and rational? Any reasonable answers?
Bill Reynolds - CloudStreet 


Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Jeroen,

Most owners have flooded the forward bilges when refilling the watertank. It’s a bit of a design flaw as there is actually an overflow to the cavity of the companion way hatch and from there into the grey water bilge. Even if not clogged it cannot handle the volume of water coming from a garden hose.
I managed to do it twice already...
A pump may help but as others say you need to think about the watertight compartments. You could use the A/C drain of the saloon A/C as evacuation hose. The water would then end up in the grey water bilge. 

Personally I’m thinking to put an alarm on the dipstick to signal overfilling. That would prevent the overflow in the first place.

Regards,

Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


Re: Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

Arno Luijten
 

Hi Jeroen,

Access to the area under the shower requires extreme agility. You can also remove the airconditioner to get slightly better access. The floorboard just in front of the housing of the A/C gives you limited access but you will need to execute a Lambada dance for it. You said it’s fresh water, my guess is the condensation drain for the A/C is playing havoc. You can remove the wooden cover of the A/C pretty easy, 4 screws. If your shower is leaking the smell will tell you ...
This is also the place where salt water will go if your rudder gland is leaking.

Regards,
Arno Luijten,
SV Luna,
A54-121


lowering mainsail

william reynolds
 

I've looked at all the old topics concerning dropping the furling mainsail and found a lot of  'what was Amel thinking'? on the length of the main halyard.  I've sailed many, many boats in my life but have never seen a furling main that could not be lowered with the installed halyard. One of the times you would w ant to lower it would be because of a mainsail failure/jam and it's probably going to be in adverse conditions. Trying to find a line, bend it on and then attempt to lower the main these   conditions  is not a safe prudent solution. Why did they do this? What was the reasoning and rational? Any reasonable answers?
Bill Reynolds - CloudStreet 


Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Mark Erdos
 
Edited

It is a shame you have altered the integrity of your vessel by holing the bulkheads. A better approach would have been to install water alarms in the compartments. These are available for about US$12.00

Glentronics, Inc. BWD-HWA 00895001498 Basement Watchdog High Water Alarm, Pack of 1, Multi

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeroen jeltes
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:47 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] no bilgepump in saloon Am54

 

Ref Fidelis Am54 bno.118 .

i am surprised there is no safety bilgepump for the saloon , forward- and aft section .  only one bilge pump to drain the grey waterhole in the engineroom.

We already experienced a small accident wilst filling the freshwater tank ; the tank overflow comes from the dipstick hole wich results in  200L+ water in your bilgelockers ! 

Now i have installed an emergency 24V pump with 3m hose in the bilgelocker underneath the stairs.


comments welcome.
Jeroen  Jeltes.

 


Re: Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

Mark Erdos
 

I don’t think you will find the leak to be at the hose connections for the shower drain. It is more likely the shower pan is leaking the edges. Look closely at the area where the pan joins the bulkheads.

 

Also on the SM53 the aft AC unit can overflow into the area under the shower if the condensation drain for the unit becomes clogged. (not sure of the 54 and the placement of the aft AC unit if this can occur).

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jeroen jeltes
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:35 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

 

ref Amel 54 bno 118 Fidelis,  now in quarantine in Aruba,  so plenty of time to do jobs.

We have noticed for some time there is water, fresh water, collecting underneath the aft shower cabin.
I want to check the hose connections and hoseclips of the shower drain, yet how do i get there ?? 
i cannot find an inspection hatch .


Re: Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

Teun BAAS
 

Hi Jeroen,

 

How can you tell there is (fresh) water underneath the Master shower?

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

On the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

May 23, 2020 14:09:30

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeroen jeltes via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 23, 2020 13:35
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

 

ref Amel 54 bno 118 Fidelis,  now in quarantine in Aruba,  so plenty of time to do jobs.

We have noticed for some time there is water, fresh water, collecting underneath the aft shower cabin.
I want to check the hose connections and hoseclips of the shower drain, yet how do i get there ?? 
i cannot find an inspection hatch .


Re: Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

ngtnewington Newington
 

The whole point of water tight bulkheads is to prevent water from flowing between the compartments.. 

Nick

Amelia AML 54-019 KIlada Gr

On 23 May 2020, at 21:34, Jeroen jeltes <j.jeltes@...> wrote:

ref Amel 54 bno 118 Fidelis,  now in quarantine in Aruba,  so plenty of time to do jobs.

We have noticed for some time there is water, fresh water, collecting underneath the aft shower cabin.
I want to check the hose connections and hoseclips of the shower drain, yet how do i get there ?? 
i cannot find an inspection hatch .



Re: no bilgepump in saloon Am54

 

Jeroen,

Respectfully, you do not understand the basics of Amel watertight bulkheads. The next time that you are in port or at anchor near another Amel, introduce yourself to the owner and ask him to explain this to you.

Best,

CW Bill Rouse 
Amel Owners Yacht School
+1 832-380-4970 | brouse@...
720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
www.AmelOwnersYachtSchool.com 
Yacht School Calendar: www.preparetocastoff.blogspot.com/p/calendar.html


   


On Sat, May 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Jeroen jeltes <j.jeltes@...> wrote:

Ref Fidelis Am54 bno.118 .

i am surprised there is no safety bilgepump for the saloon , forward- and aft section .  only one bilge pump to drain the grey waterhole in the engineroom.

We already experienced a small accident wilst filling the freshwater tank ; the tank overflow comes from the dipstick hole wich results in  200L+ water in your bilgelockers ! 

Now i have installed an emergency 24V pump with 3m hose in the bilgelocker underneath the stairs.


comments welcome.
Jeroen  Jeltes.


no bilgepump in saloon Am54

Jeroen jeltes
 

Ref Fidelis Am54 bno.118 .

i am surprised there is no safety bilgepump for the saloon , forward- and aft section .  only one bilge pump to drain the grey waterhole in the engineroom.

We already experienced a small accident wilst filling the freshwater tank ; the tank overflow comes from the dipstick hole wich results in  200L+ water in your bilgelockers ! 

Now i have installed an emergency 24V pump with 3m hose in the bilgelocker underneath the stairs.


comments welcome.
Jeroen  Jeltes.


Am54 water in bilge floor below aft shower

Jeroen jeltes
 

ref Amel 54 bno 118 Fidelis,  now in quarantine in Aruba,  so plenty of time to do jobs.

We have noticed for some time there is water, fresh water, collecting underneath the aft shower cabin.
I want to check the hose connections and hoseclips of the shower drain, yet how do i get there ?? 
i cannot find an inspection hatch .


Re: Insurance

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Well said Pat.

Danny

On 24 May 2020 at 01:33 "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:

Mark,
 I emailed Kent yesterday, that I was going to stop responding to posts on this subject ,as I don't want to take the time or clog up this site. But the 2% proposed deposit into a reserve fund ,was a one time deposit, which upon leaving the group, you would receive a 50% refund,provided you had not made any claims during your membership. With the group protecting you from a total loss ,perhaps an owner may chose to continue full coverage , but could insure his boat at a much lower fixed value ,which should result in a much lower annual premium. If you parked $4000. in the reserve fund  and it lowered your premium by a significant amount ,it could be a good return on your deposit . 
However ,I agree and related this to Kent ,its like herding cats ,  I have read comments that were based on false assumptions or the misinterpretations of what was originally proposed and I felt compelled correct them,can't keep doing it. For this to work ,it would need to be lead by someone well organized, it would have to be kept simple and limited in scope. I have said that ,it may be a case of a good idea whose time is yet to arrive. If underwriters continue to leave the market ,and coverage continues to shrink and continue to get more expensive ,its time may arrive . 
But I don't think it is now, I did not make the original post on this subject , but I have proposed some plans for it, and believe it has merit,  if an Amel Risk co-op ever evolves , count me in. But for now ,I will now respond to further discussions on this site , as often a subject goes on and on , clogging the site without end. 
Stay Safe,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Fri, May 22, 2020 6:15 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance

Not wanting to poop on this idea, I am in favor or the concept, but the proposed numbers just do not seem to work.
 
If I am to contribute 2% of the insured value of my boat, this amount is greater than what I am currently paying for my current company provided insurance (with minimal deductable and liability included).
 
Just my 2¢ but to think 200 owners would agree to this is IMO a bit of a pipe dream. Getting 10 people to agree on anything is difficult let alone 200.
 
Also, the idea of an assessment is frightening to me. Being at the mercy of others concerning my out of pocket expenses is very unappealing.
 
Perhaps the more reasonable approach is to join an association such as the OCC and utilize their recommendations and discounts pre-arranged for members at Top-Sail. I am not sure but, there might be other groups about the world. Or, form a group to obtain group-rate policies as someone else suggested we can favor one particular insurance company. However, the latter suggestion has already been pursued by Bill Rouse to no avail.
 
One last thought is licensing. Without valid verification, it might be impossible to stay in marinas etc. or for those that need it, a mortgage on the vessel.
 
Just my 2¢ worth.
 
Regardless of the outcome of this thread, I would like to see members of this group continue discussions as they find good options for their Amels.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
www.creampuff.us
 
 
From: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...>
Reply-To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, 17 May 2020 at 3:22 pm
To: <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Insurance
 
Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243