Date   

Re: Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Germain Jean-Pierre
 

Hello Volker,

For their present generation of boats, Amel uses Facnor curlers. But as mentioned repeatedly, your unit is rugged and well designed. But like everything else on a boat, it requires some maintenance. 

Merry Christmas 

Jean-Pierre Germain, Eleuthera, SM007, NZ


On 25/12/2020, at 5:09 AM, James Alton via groups.io <lokiyawl2@...> wrote:


Volker,

   We own a Maramu that has the original electric furling systems for the main and Genoa, all of which were functional when we bought the boat. These have proven to be quite reliable and are powerful.    Having observed and  also experienced  boats with the many trip lines needed to control the sails manually, along with the drag of the many blocks in the system, the piles of line in the cockpit  we decided conclusively to retain the original Amel  furling system.  Yes, the electric systems do require some maintenance and  having a custom part made since some parts are N/A but I think having fingertip control of the sails from the cockpit on a short handed boat is invaluable and one of the reasons to own an Amel.  

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220


-----Original Message-----
From: Volker Hasenauer <volker.hasenauer@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 3:21 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Hello Santorin or Maramu Owners,

I own a Santorin (SN 27) from 1990 which I am planning to overhaul. I bought the boat about a year ago, however due to Covid I was so far not able to do anything with her. The Genua furler is original (fully functional) but I wonder if its a worthwhile project going "backwards" and install a conventional furler instead to renew the entire electrical furler. I did not checked so far the price with Amel for a new electrical furler. My best guess is however that a conventional one may be far cheaper?

Does anyone have experience with such a conversion? I am a bit afraid that I mess with the entire design philosophy of Amel....??? 

I would be grateful for any ideas....pro & con's

Volker
Aquamarine (Santorin # 27), currently in Malaysia

 


Re: Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

James Alton
 

Volker,

   We own a Maramu that has the original electric furling systems for the main and Genoa, all of which were functional when we bought the boat. These have proven to be quite reliable and are powerful.    Having observed and  also experienced  boats with the many trip lines needed to control the sails manually, along with the drag of the many blocks in the system, the piles of line in the cockpit  we decided conclusively to retain the original Amel  furling system.  Yes, the electric systems do require some maintenance and  having a custom part made since some parts are N/A but I think having fingertip control of the sails from the cockpit on a short handed boat is invaluable and one of the reasons to own an Amel.  

James
SV Sueno
Maramu #220


-----Original Message-----
From: Volker Hasenauer <volker.hasenauer@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Thu, Dec 24, 2020 3:21 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Hello Santorin or Maramu Owners,

I own a Santorin (SN 27) from 1990 which I am planning to overhaul. I bought the boat about a year ago, however due to Covid I was so far not able to do anything with her. The Genua furler is original (fully functional) but I wonder if its a worthwhile project going "backwards" and install a conventional furler instead to renew the entire electrical furler. I did not checked so far the price with Amel for a new electrical furler. My best guess is however that a conventional one may be far cheaper?

Does anyone have experience with such a conversion? I am a bit afraid that I mess with the entire design philosophy of Amel....??? 

I would be grateful for any ideas....pro & con's

Volker
Aquamarine (Santorin # 27), currently in Malaysia

 


Re: Port side Front Navigation Light unreliable

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Dan,
Just a word of caution about the iron backing plate. If you can't remove it completely, you may want to passivate what's left with phosphoric acid to prevent it from swelling up and distorting or even cracking the surrounding fiberglass structure.  I recall that when Bill Rouse owned Bebe he had the backing plates on the engine room supports swell up and damage the grp there. I've had the same issue at one of my aft stanchions where the original GPS antenna cable went through allowing water ingress.  The embedded and rusting backing plate actually cracked the grp gunnel open. At the time, Joel though I must have hit a dock, but, no, it was the backing plate swelling up. Huge force! I also had the same bow light issue as you describe and got just a minor bit of gunnel swelling before I dug it out and passivated what was left. Fingers crossed it doesn't progress, although the grp repair is pretty straightforward.

Best regards, Craig - SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

 

Vibration is a result of either poor alignment or the Vetus Coupling rubber donuts were in need of replacement. In either case, because of the vibration, the Vetus coupling rubber donuts will certainly need replacing.

It sounds to me as though you had hired the wrong person to do this job. Correct installation, especially in an Amel, is of the utmost importance. This is not something to trust to someone inexperienced with an Amel.

Good luck.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 4:00 AM Mark Barter <markbarter100@...> wrote:
Hi Michael,

I was looking at ways of mounting the water pump elsewhere because it makes a lot of sense. How did you do that?

The large frame alternator has been fitted on the port side of the engine now. 

Thank you for your input

Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Volker,
I totally agree with Ian's comments. That your genoa furler works well (unlike your main & outhaul) is great. My only recommendation would be to do some preventive maintenance on it and replace the seals so you do not risk any sea water intrusion. That's a bit of a job because you have to remove the unit, but you can also pull the headstay and regrease that while you're at it.  
The motor can easily be removed at a later time for periodic preventive maintenance. 
I would fully expect your furler to last many more years.
--
Craig, SN68 Sangaris, Tropic Isle Harbor, FL


Re: Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Volker <volker.hasenauer@...>
 

Hi Ian,

thanks for your thoughts!

So far all works....I am only concerned about the age of the gearbox/motor. I already changed the main furler motors & gearboxes as they were non function...

Forced by Covid not to do much I just sit and dream about what needs to be done once she is in my reach and under my daily care. Being in Malaysia means under the "new normal" that shipping gets crazy expensive and takes ages to reach us - that's why I try to evaluate what I could order now and have it available when the boat is around the corner.

Answering your question on how long I will keep her, well I just bought a year ago and if I could really get hold of her - she is within Malaysia but due to travel restriction I am not able to pick her up - I have no serious plans of selling her. I like the layout, I like the little details of that boat. She is ideal for me and my wife and we wish to take her long term cruising. 

Thanks again and wishing you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year,

Volker
Aquamarine, Santorin # 27


On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 4:54 PM Ian Park <parkianj@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Volker
Does the electric curled work at the moment. 
If 'Yes', then do not change it. Use it for a while before deciding.
The original Genoa is pretty big - 150% and weighs a fair bit. It can be hauled in by manual curling and you can experience this by using the built in manual furler.
The Bosch motor is no longer made, but replacing brushes and springs is still possible.  the gearbox is very well engineered and should last a lifetime if it has been kept properly lubricated.
A final question is - how long will you keep your Santorin? I don't think you would sell it again if you remove all the electric curling systems!
I also think it will cost you more to change the systems than to service them.
Leave well alone until you've sailed it for at least one season. I'll get anything you will decide that the design is excellent!

Ian 'Ocean Hobo' Santorin no.96


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Mark Barter
 

Hi Michael,

I was looking at ways of mounting the water pump elsewhere because it makes a lot of sense. How did you do that?

The large frame alternator has been fitted on the port side of the engine now. 

Thank you for your input

Mark
--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Ian Park
 
Edited

Volker
Does the electric curled work at the moment. 
If 'Yes', then do not change it. Use it for a while before deciding.
The original Genoa is pretty big - 150% and weighs a fair bit. It can be hauled in by manual curling and you can experience this by using the built in manual furler.
The Bosch motor is no longer made, but replacing brushes and springs is still possible.  the gearbox is very well engineered and should last a lifetime if it has been kept properly lubricated.
A final question is - how long will you keep your Santorin? I don't think you would sell it again if you remove all the electric curling systems!
I also think it will cost you more to change the systems than to service them.
Leave well alone until you've sailed it for at least one season. I'll get anything you will decide that the design is excellent!

Ian 'Ocean Hobo' Santorin no.96


Genua Furler on Santorin...stay electrical or go mechanical

Volker Hasenauer <volker.hasenauer@...>
 

Hello Santorin or Maramu Owners,

I own a Santorin (SN 27) from 1990 which I am planning to overhaul. I bought the boat about a year ago, however due to Covid I was so far not able to do anything with her. The Genua furler is original (fully functional) but I wonder if its a worthwhile project going "backwards" and install a conventional furler instead to renew the entire electrical furler. I did not checked so far the price with Amel for a new electrical furler. My best guess is however that a conventional one may be far cheaper?

Does anyone have experience with such a conversion? I am a bit afraid that I mess with the entire design philosophy of Amel....??? 

I would be grateful for any ideas....pro & con's

Volker
Aquamarine (Santorin # 27), currently in Malaysia

 


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

michael winand
 

We used poly flex mounts, these were set up via poly flex as they can be made to order for specific weights. 
I moved the water pump to a nice location away from the alternator. 
Remote mounted the oil and fuel filter to allow for vertical orientation. 
Large frame alternator on the opposite side of the battery alternator. 
When you replace your old mounts you will likely find that the old ones have lowered the frame. Some adjustments may be required 
I would replace any hose that connects to the new engine. 
Michael  Nebo sm251 


On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 3:46 pm, Mark Barter
<markbarter100@...> wrote:
We have had a nightmare fitting the Beta 85T to our 1993 Super Maramu.

The fitter that we employed took the Perkins out and it was only when it was put next to the Beta that he he realised that they were different sizes. I genuinely think that he thought that the Beta would just plug in. The Beta was fitted with a straight through gearbox. The fitter told me that I should have made it clear that what he called a dropbox should have been fitted. A dropbox is more accurately described as a gearbox with an offset output shaft. I hadn't been asked about the gearbox and if I had been I would have had to research the difference before I could have answered the question.

After the final checks were done by the fitter I found 2 coolant leaks and a fuel leak. They had used the wrong thread seal on the calorifier fittings so they weren't even hand tight. The had also re used the 27 year old fuel return pipe instead of putting new pipe in. The mind boggles.  

The engine is in now but the fitter failed to fit new engine feet so the boat vibrates terribly when the engine is running. We are going to have the engine removed and have new feet fitted. 

I blame myself for a lot of these problems because I put too much trust in the fitter. With the benefit of hindsight I would have done a better job myself.

Here are few takeaways which might assist any others thinking about this project:

1. If you want a high powered 24v alternator as we did, Beta will insist on fitting it if they are to honour the warranty.

2. Beta will fit the alternator to the starboard side of the engine. On a Super Maramu if the alternator is fitted there the engine will not fit because the water drain tube that goes through the engine room is in the way. It must be fitted to the port side.

3. The best plan is to remove the engine bed, fit the engine to the bed and then put it all in together. Our fitter didn't remove the engine bed. He fitted the engine to the bed whilst the bed was still bolted to the hull. That is why the feet were not changed.

4. The gearbox you need is a PRM 280. Our fitter ordered the wrong gearbox then blamed me for that and is now trying to charge me for returning the wrong gearbox. Good luck with that.

5. You need to know that changing an impeller will be a complete PITA. The water pump faces aft (when the engine is fitted) and is under the heat exchanger on the starboard side. The problem with that is that you can only access it from the rear of the engine. Due to problems with access, unless you are a contortionist, you will be fitting the impeller by feel. I intend to replace the short 4mm bolts with some studs and to get some brass thumb screws to secure the impeller cover. That should make life easier but I dread having to change an impeller in an emergency.

6. The engine is very simple. The advantage is that it will be easy to repair if anything goes wrong. The downside is that it has no refinement. It is after all a tractor engine. I suspect that even when we change the engine feet it will still be very noisy. I had planned to replace the yellow foam sound deadening material anyway so hopefully that will help.

7. You will need the fitting tool to align the engine. It can be made easily.

8. We have only run the engine for 7 hours on our way back from Gibraltar but my impression is that at lower revs it is more powerful than the Perkins. 

I won't name the fitter publicly for obvious reasons but if anyone is thinking of having any boat work done in Gibraltar contact me first. 

It is too soon for me to say whether fitting the Beta was a good option because at the moment I am very disappointed with the result. I think however that is more down to the fitter than the engine. When the new feet have been fitted I will report back. I am going to run a test on a decibel meter before and after the remedial work is done so that I can provide some actual data on the issue.


--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Any SM owners use a Beta engine??

Mark Barter
 

We have had a nightmare fitting the Beta 85T to our 1993 Super Maramu.

The fitter that we employed took the Perkins out and it was only when it was put next to the Beta that he he realised that they were different sizes. I genuinely think that he thought that the Beta would just plug in. The Beta was fitted with a straight through gearbox. The fitter told me that I should have made it clear that what he called a dropbox should have been fitted. A dropbox is more accurately described as a gearbox with an offset output shaft. I hadn't been asked about the gearbox and if I had been I would have had to research the difference before I could have answered the question.

After the final checks were done by the fitter I found 2 coolant leaks and a fuel leak. They had used the wrong thread seal on the calorifier fittings so they weren't even hand tight. The had also re used the 27 year old fuel return pipe instead of putting new pipe in. The mind boggles.  

The engine is in now but the fitter failed to fit new engine feet so the boat vibrates terribly when the engine is running. We are going to have the engine removed and have new feet fitted. 

I blame myself for a lot of these problems because I put too much trust in the fitter. With the benefit of hindsight I would have done a better job myself.

Here are few takeaways which might assist any others thinking about this project:

1. If you want a high powered 24v alternator as we did, Beta will insist on fitting it if they are to honour the warranty.

2. Beta will fit the alternator to the starboard side of the engine. On a Super Maramu if the alternator is fitted there the engine will not fit because the water drain tube that goes through the engine room is in the way. It must be fitted to the port side.

3. The best plan is to remove the engine bed, fit the engine to the bed and then put it all in together. Our fitter didn't remove the engine bed. He fitted the engine to the bed whilst the bed was still bolted to the hull. That is why the feet were not changed.

4. The gearbox you need is a PRM 280. Our fitter ordered the wrong gearbox then blamed me for that and is now trying to charge me for returning the wrong gearbox. Good luck with that.

5. You need to know that changing an impeller will be a complete PITA. The water pump faces aft (when the engine is fitted) and is under the heat exchanger on the starboard side. The problem with that is that you can only access it from the rear of the engine. Due to problems with access, unless you are a contortionist, you will be fitting the impeller by feel. I intend to replace the short 4mm bolts with some studs and to get some brass thumb screws to secure the impeller cover. That should make life easier but I dread having to change an impeller in an emergency.

6. The engine is very simple. The advantage is that it will be easy to repair if anything goes wrong. The downside is that it has no refinement. It is after all a tractor engine. I suspect that even when we change the engine feet it will still be very noisy. I had planned to replace the yellow foam sound deadening material anyway so hopefully that will help.

7. You will need the fitting tool to align the engine. It can be made easily.

8. We have only run the engine for 7 hours on our way back from Gibraltar but my impression is that at lower revs it is more powerful than the Perkins. 

I won't name the fitter publicly for obvious reasons but if anyone is thinking of having any boat work done in Gibraltar contact me first. 

It is too soon for me to say whether fitting the Beta was a good option because at the moment I am very disappointed with the result. I think however that is more down to the fitter than the engine. When the new feet have been fitted I will report back. I am going to run a test on a decibel meter before and after the remedial work is done so that I can provide some actual data on the issue.


--
Mark & Nicky Barter
S/V Nunky
SM 110


Re: Port side Front Navigation Light unreliable

Dan Carlson
 

Hello a few more tips,

I did this job last year.

The backing plate on SM#387 was iron and very corroded from moisture that had run down inside the stanchion.  I had to break and grind enough of the corroded iron first. I still couldn't budge the wire. Went home for Christmas, came back a couple of weeks later and I was able too work the wires out. I took the port side wire out first and then tackled the longer starboard side wire.

Second tip: if you have not replaced your bow locker floors yet, then put a supportive board in there to hold your weight. Or you might be adding that to your list of improvements (I picked up that tip from another SM owner who replaced their wires).

Third tip: if you do run into a frustrating situation then I suggest you to a search in this Amel forum and you will find lots of supportive posts on the project.

Good luck, Daniel Carlson on sv BeBe, SN#387, currently near Great Bird Island, Antigua



On Sun, Dec 20, 2020, 6:47 PM Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 09:36 AM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:
Preparing to pull wire
Thank y'all for the explanation and the tricks of the trade. I will see whether I can source the Belden cable here in Antigua. Ill report back how it went once I get to the project.
 
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


Re: CHRISTMAS GREETINGS

Mark Erdos
 

sailing, cruising, blog, best, top, travel, adventure, journal

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2020 9:37 AM
To: Amel owners group
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] CHRISTMAS GREETINGS

 

I want wish the members of our world wide Amel family all the very best for Christmas and the new year. I enjoy being in contact with all of you. You are appreciated. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


CHRISTMAS GREETINGS

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

I want wish the members of our world wide Amel family all the very best for Christmas and the new year. I enjoy being in contact with all of you. You are appreciated. 

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


Re: SSB Not Receiving - IC M801

Slavko Despotovic
 

Hello,

how about PTC II, is it sending and receiving? On my previous boat I had IC802 with tuner and Pactor SCS. How far were the boats you have been testing the transmission? What happens when you push TUNE? You should have a sound of relays and then on display Tune or THRU. With this one can manually adjust the transceiver to tuner. If there is TRHU tuner is not calibrated to the frequency. I am not sure if this has any effect when receiving. On 802 there was clear sign that transmission is on when one was transmitting.
Sorry for more questions than answers at this point of time.

Regards
--
Slavko
SM 2000
#279 Bonne Anse in Portoroz


SSB Not Receiving - IC M801

Chris Likins
 

Hi All,

 

I will not pretend to be an expert on HF/SSB because I am very far from it! On my Amel 54 I have an IC-M801 SSB with SCS PTC II Pactor modem. 

 

I seem to be able to transmit just fine as other boats can hear me, however, I am not able to receive anything. Squelch and NB are off, the RF Gain is turned all the way up to 9 and AGC is ON. Nothing but static. I'll also note that the antenna current indicator (little black bars) do not appear at all, even when transmitting. I have checked all the connections and wiring at the tuner and transceiver and I cant see anything thats loose or corroded. 

 

I really feel like this is almost certainly user error on my part and likely something simple like a setting in the unit itself. Can anyone point me in the right direction for receiving trouble? 

 

Thank you!

A54 #133


Re: Waterleak

Craig Briggs
 

Another way to skin the cat - tape plastic over the inside of a large area like windows, put in a hole and blow in air from small shop vac, Leave air running and spray diluted dish soap on outside and watch for bubbles. Great for hairline leaks. Then apply "Captain Tolley's (Amazing) Creeping Crack Cure". Guaranteed!
--
Craig  - Merry Christmas to all.


Re: Port side Front Navigation Light unreliable

 

FYI,

The Belden Cable I recommend is round and is .222" or 5.6mm in diameter. Available on Amazon in 50 foot and 500 foot rolls. I think I bought a 500 foot roll and ran out.
image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 4:47 PM Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:
On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 09:36 AM, CW Bill Rouse wrote:
Preparing to pull wire
Thank y'all for the explanation and the tricks of the trade. I will see whether I can source the Belden cable here in Antigua. Ill report back how it went once I get to the project.
 
--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417


Re: Waterleak

Chris Doucette
 

Also— consider some food coloring to help identify sources of leakage :)


Re: Waterleak

Thomas Kleman
 

One bit of advice- finding a leak on a boat would be easy if it never heeled or stressed during sailing. But since it does, the path of the leak can appear uphill or circuitous when moored or at anchor. We use baby powder in strategic places to try to trace the path of the liquid. Works well.

Tom and Kirstin
SV L'ORIENT
SM2K 422

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