Date   

Self Insurance

Patrick McAneny
 

This is a rough outline of a self insurance or shared risk co-op, that I sent Kent and thought I would share with the group. It was prompted by the hassle I have had with obtaining insurance, the restrictions and expense.  Bill suggested self insuring and just buying liability insurance, however in the event of a total loss, it would be a big financial hit, that I could not afford. However, if I could share that risk with even ten others or better yet many more, it would soften the loss. When you consider how few Amel's have been lost outside of a hurricane zone, the risk seems very low, and yet we need to insure against such a great financial lose.

1. A  LLC. formed
 
2. An administrator and board to accept membership ,assess deposit amount , administer funds and assess claims.
 
3. A one time deposit could be a percentage of agreed fixed value, perhaps 2 or 2.5% ,eg. $200,000 boat would amount to a $5000 deposit into the fund
 
4. Coverage would be for total loss , fixed value minus say 10% deductible. Figuring most owners could absorb some loss ,and insurance companies have deductibles as well. Hurricane zones excluded.
 
5. Perhaps lightning strike coverage , perhaps coverage would be ,replace with new equipment ,minus a 30 % deductible.This would probably be the largest source of loss. May have a surcharge or higher deductible for Florida locations.
 
6. All funds would be in an interest bearing account,if you can find anyone paying interest.
 
7. Upon leaving the group , the owner would receive a 50% refund of his deposit assuming they had no claims. 
 
8. Perhaps a .20% of fixed value annual fee to go to cost of administration .eg. $3000,000. boat x.20% = $600. annual fee
 
Assuming 200 owners/members at average boat value of $300,000 x 2.5 % = $7,500 deposit or $1,500,000.00 in funds.
a $300,000. loss of a boat would break down to a loss of $1,350. for each of the 200 members.
 
This could even work on a smaller scale . If ten owners shared responsibility for loss. $300,000 minus deductible of 10% ,would be $ 270,000.000 divided by ten owners or $27,000 per owner. Its all about spreading the risk.
 
I wonder why no group has formed a risk co-op as yet. Maybe because insurance used to be less restrictive and more reasonably priced .
 
Stay Safe,
Pat
SM 123
Shenanigans
 
 


Re: My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

 

Bob, is it possible that the heading sensor is disconnected or not working?

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 11:23 PM Bob Grey via groups.io <renaissanceiii=yahoo.com.au@groups.io> wrote:
Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


Re: anchor wash safety note

greg greg
 

in my experience the problem arises when AWP is not used frequently enough. it gets clogged with sea debris and requires the full refurbishing some time. the good thing is it't bronze and can be repaired :)
 


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

Matt Salatino
 

Our water heater is an Isotherm.
I haven’t looked at the element nut size.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On May 18, 2020, at 7:36 AM, Eric Meury <ericmeury@...> wrote:

hey matt. 

im not 100% sure if there is a difference but i do know that my AC element way to many watts going out.  This is the unit i purchased.  https://globalsolarsupply.com/product/diversion-load-water-heating-element-60a12v-30a24v/

it will work for 12 or 24 volt.  I think if you goole the type of water heater you have you can find out the size of the element.   You will most likely need the professional tool to remove the water heater element.  The cheap home ones will simply not do the job.  at least on my tank that was the case.  ...What brand of water heater do you have?


Re: Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Alexander Hofmann
 

Bonjour Olivier, hello Rudi and Scott,

I want to add my observations of some years: The zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter is completely away after a year, if you do not have the zinc anode on the nose of (in my case folding) propeller. This means, the protection of the big 2 anodes on the rudder blade is most seemingly not enough to protect the line cutter (and the propeller I believe) from corrosion.
After installing the zinc anode on the propeller (instead of the 'red nose plastic' - as Olivier says), which by the way is quite easy also in diving, I detect no corrosion anymore at the zinc anode of the Spurs line cutter.
I am happy now with a full set of zinc anodes from bow to aft, on (1) the bow thruster, (2) the Onan Generator, (3) the spurs line cutter, (4) the nose of the Propeller and (5) the 2 big ones at the rudder blade.

This should last and avoid any corrosion easily a year!

Best regards
Alexander Hofmann, SY Oceanica I, Amel 54#156


Re: Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Rudolf Waldispuehl
 

Hi Olivier
Thank you. Yes you are completely right. I forgot that U-shaped plastic part which isolate the SPURS from the bonded shaft. 
Have a nice day 
Ruedi

Von: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> on behalf of "Beaute Olivier via groups.io" <atlanticyachtsurvey@...>
Antworten an: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Datum: Sonntag, 17. Mai 2020 um 11:31
An: "main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io" <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Betreff: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Zink Anode for SPURS Line Cutter

Hello Rudi and Scott,

the reason for the zinc on the SPURS rope-cutter is that it is attached to the fixed blade which is in fact isolated from the prop shaft by a plastic U-shaped part (you will have a close look next time)  Therefore, this fixed blade is not correctly bonded to the rudder zincs, and it is important to keep its zinc in good condition.
The purpose of the plastic part is to reduce friction betwen the shaft and the fixed blade.

Have a nice day.

Olivier.


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

Eric Meury
 

hey matt. 

im not 100% sure if there is a difference but i do know that my AC element way to many watts going out.  This is the unit i purchased.  https://globalsolarsupply.com/product/diversion-load-water-heating-element-60a12v-30a24v/

it will work for 12 or 24 volt.  I think if you goole the type of water heater you have you can find out the size of the element.   You will most likely need the professional tool to remove the water heater element.  The cheap home ones will simply not do the job.  at least on my tank that was the case.  ...What brand of water heater do you have?


Re: My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

Mark Erdos
 

Bob,

 

 

I don’t have a Furuno plotter but I am wondering if you can restore the default settings.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bob Grey via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 6:23 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

 

Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


My Plotter has stopped providing CTS information

Bob Grey
 

Good morning Captains, I have an interesting problem on my Amel 55, The Furuno plotter has stopped providing Course to Steer information when I select a waypoint. One day it just stopped, and I'm not sure why, everything else works fine just no CTS on the display information.

Any ideas??

Bob Grey
Amel 55 #25
Renaissance 3


Re: Insurance

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Kent,

I think we would quickly find out why insurance companies are trying to get out of the game.

As to self insurance, ie carrying the risk myself. I don't, but if I took my premiums over 12 years collectively they would have over-subsrcibed my claims noticeably, even if a 50K lightning one was included. On shore in NZ is reasonable. Go off shore and up goes the premium

Kind Regards

Danny

On 18 May 2020 at 13:22 "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

Oliver Henrichsen, SV Vela Nautica
 

Hello and thanks 4 your answers.

But the question was:

Is there a procedure to check the generator bearings for wear? As mentioned in the manual / service plan?

Oliver from Vela Nautica Amel54#39 
Martinique 

On Sun, May 17, 2020, 18:41 CW Bill Rouse <brouse@...> wrote:
Sorry, guys. I did exactly the same thing as Gary Silver, and the bearing was never installed.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gary,
It's been awhile, but I replaced the rotor bearing on my Northern Lights 6kw genset in situ with little difficulty. The rotor remains bolted to the flywheel as you remove the end with the bearing - no external support needed. I recall I did the old put-it-in-the-freezer trick to shrink the bearing and it slid in with no press needed.  That was at about 3000 hours; now I'm at 7500 and am overdue, so will tackle again soon. (I'm getting a very slight vibration with heavy loads.)
If you want to remove the rotor, as I did because it needed rewinding from salt water corrosion shorting the wires ($176 in La Paz VZ), it's heavy but quite manageable by hand. However it doesn't sound like you'd need to remove it for the 2500 hr. (if I recall correctly) bearing replacement..
Cheers, Craig


Re: SN, SM, & 54 owners: If your outhaul line has ever slipped, this is a great idea

Mohammad Shirloo
 

Very interesting Bill. The amount of tension required to avoid the line slipping has always been a concern. Who knows when we’ll be back on board. But I will take a look and see if its something we would pursue.

 

Happy Sailing;

 

 

Mohammad and Aty

B&B Kokomo

AMEL 54 #099

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of CW Bill Rouse via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2020 5:38 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io Notification <main@amelyachtowners.groups.io>
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] SN, SM, & 54 owners: If your outhaul line has ever slipped, this is a great idea

 

The photo below is of an Amel 55. I have been aboard several 55's but never really noticed the fairleads near the outhaul winch. The way these fairleads are placed causes the outhaul winch to have a much better grasp of the outhaul line. If we could make this change on models previous to the 55, we could reduce the amount of tension on the outhaul line.

 

If anyone is so inclined to take on this project I will be happy to assist.

 

image.png

 

It would be a perfect job with cutting, welding, and painting, but maybe there is a much simpler way to accomplish this.

image.png

 

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School

Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 

 

View My Training Calendar


Insurance

karkauai
 

Hi All,
Given the insurance problems everyone is having, I thought I'd see if there is enough interest and/or expertise to pursue an AYOG self-insurance program.
Pat (Shenanigans) and I have talked about it a little. Here's the gist of what we discussed:

1. A buy-in of some percentage of your boat's  value that would be enough to cover the first year.  For example, a $300,000 SM owner might pay 2% or $6,000. If we had 200 similar owners, we'd have $1,200,000 to pay out.

2. It would' be a high deductible coverage  designed primarily to pay for total loss. Maybe something like 20% of the boat's value.

3. The most common claim would probably be lightening damage, which often amounts to $50,000 or more.  Our plan might pay for half of a major claim like that?

4. Boat's would have to be out of the hurricane zones during the season.  Any other restrictions?

5. Yearly Assessments could replenish what was paid out  Or we could continue to pay in until the principle was self-sustaining. That would require investing the funds and a whole added layer of complexity.

6. A rotating Board of unpaid members would oversee the plan (maybe a LLC?), and an administrator would be hired to do the paperwork.

7. Owners would purchase their own liability insurance.

This is all just a very rough framework that can be built on, scrapped and something else adopted, or what ever seems appropriate.  Any and all thoughts and suggestions are encouraged. I'm hoping we might have an owner or two that have some insurance or legal expertise to help us understand the potential pitfalls and options available.

Thanks for your ideas.
Kent
Kristy
S M 243


SN, SM, & 54 owners: If your outhaul line has ever slipped, this is a great idea

 

The photo below is of an Amel 55. I have been aboard several 55's but never really noticed the fairleads near the outhaul winch. The way these fairleads are placed causes the outhaul winch to have a much better grasp of the outhaul line. If we could make this change on models previous to the 55, we could reduce the amount of tension on the outhaul line.

If anyone is so inclined to take on this project I will be happy to assist.

image.png

It would be a perfect job with cutting, welding, and painting, but maybe there is a much simpler way to accomplish this.
image.png

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


Re: Main sail outhaul Motorspor

Kaplan,Andre
 

Mark
Good advice
Thanks again
If things improve we might be in your area later in summer...
Be well
Andre



On May 17, 2020, at 8:12 PM, Miles <milesbid@...> wrote:


*** Attention: This is an external email. Use caution responding, opening attachments or clicking on links. ***

Hello Andre,

 

Before you replace your motor, have someone look at it.  Your problem could be as simple as a brush stuck or worn down.  If the motor is damaged, you can probably find someone to rebuild it.  I understand that it is a truck starting motor, but start with the brushes.  I know this because it happened to me.  Place a tarp under the boom when you take the cover off.  If it is like mine, there is a lot of carbon dust in there.  

 

With luck and cooperating officialdom, I will be in Newport, RI by the end of June.

 

Miles, sm 216, s/y Ladybug,  Le Marin, Martinique

 


Re: Main sail outhaul Motorspor

Miles
 

Hello Andre,

 

Before you replace your motor, have someone look at it.  Your problem could be as simple as a brush stuck or worn down.  If the motor is damaged, you can probably find someone to rebuild it.  I understand that it is a truck starting motor, but start with the brushes.  I know this because it happened to me.  Place a tarp under the boom when you take the cover off.  If it is like mine, there is a lot of carbon dust in there.  

 

With luck and cooperating officialdom, I will be in Newport, RI by the end of June.

 

Miles, sm 216, s/y Ladybug,  Le Marin, Martinique

 


Re: anchor wash safety note

 

You did not mention the 24v breaker for the anchor wash pump in the engine room.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 3:37 PM william reynolds <sail23692@...> wrote:

The 24 vdc breaker on the 24 volt panel controls the power to activators on the windlass, the sail motors and winches but not to the anchor wash. 

The anchor wash has direct power from the C/B panel to the switch to the pump and is fused at 10 amps @24 vdc.and is hot all the time unless you go down into the engine room and trip the circuit breaker. Running this current through the 24 vdc switch on the 24 vdc main panel for the anchor, windlass and sail motors would be an overload situation. So, the anchor wash switch is hot as long as the C/B in the engine bay is activated.

I was advised that you should to get into the engine compartment and kill or activate the anchor wash circuit breaker there to disable/enable the power to the anchor wash. Not everyone is going to do this and the anchor wash pump switch will be live (or dead) all the time.

The anchor wash power cable is right under the Ray marine A/P head in the upper access over the galley.

I installed a 15 amp, 24 vdc relay in the anchor wash power line and connected the relay activator (42 milli-amp) to the 24 volt switch that controls everything else.

Attached are photos of the installed relay and wiring choices.

Now the anchor wash switch is hot only when the main 24 vdc power to the other items is selected. A   $15 fix to protect a $250 saltwater pump.

Bill Reynolds  CloudStreet SM2K


Re: Near constant hot water without a generator - Here is how i did it.

 

Bravo Eric. and I do not believe there is any difference in AC vs DC resistance heating element...but ask an electrician.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, May 17, 2020 at 9:40 AM Matt Salatino via groups.io <helmsmatt=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Eric,
Excellent configuration. Where do you get $C heating elements? And is there really a difference between AC and DC elements? Seems it would just be a resistance heater? Different resistance?

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On May 17, 2020, at 10:04 AM, Eric Meury <ericmeury@...> wrote:

We have an santorin with no generator but have 1000 Watts of solar.  400 of those watts are shaded -  200 is behind the main mast flexible panels and 200 is on the new hard top bimini (room for more)  The bulk of the power comes from 600 Watts on the arch. 

Here is what we did.  

1.  Added the Victron 712 Battery Monitor that is bluetooth and replaced the Amel Shunt 

2.  Changed out the AC heating element for a 600 Watt DC element (300 Watt can be used as well)

3.  Added a Victron Battery Protect -  this serves as the relay and what powers the heating element.  - ie the heating element positive cable is connected to the battery protect .
 (BPR065022000 Victron Energy BPR065022000 Smart BatteryProtect with Bluetooth 12/24V - 65A) -  $59 bucks from pkys

4.  Disconnected the thermostat wire from the heating element and attached it directly to the relay.

Here is how it works -  The BMV has a relay setting.  This is set to Default mode but i changed the settings to Invert.  The Low SOC is set to 90 and 96.  What this means is that the relay will be powered when the SOC is anything above 90%.  When it gets to 90% it will turn off and will not turn back on again until the SOC is 96% (these can be changed)  -  This send a signal to the battery protect to "turn on" thus sending power to the heating element.  The battery protect has a shutdown setting of 12.4 volts  (i can change that to really anything but this was set to be an absolule failsafe to never let the batteries go below 12.4).  It turns back on when the batteries are 12.75. I have never seen 12.4 from my bank.   The tempature sensor is set to what ever the factory setting is...i  imagine it is 105 degrees (torried marine water heater).  

So everyday and a couple of times a day depending on how much water is used, my heater will turn on automatically in the mid morning as by that time i have recovered from the nightly discharge and am now above 96%/.  The element will draw a full 600 Watts until such time that either thhe SOC is 90% OR the tempature sensor says - he we are good and have plenty of hot water.  The first time i rant it it took a good 1.5 to 2 hours to get to that tempature. but my batteries never eached 90% as i'm usually producting 400-500 Watts and only have 600 watt drain so max i see going out during the day is 200-250 watts -  (if you use a 300 Watt Element and have plenty of solar you won't go negative but will talke longer)  Since i have this it only needs to run for maybe 15 to 20 mins and occastionally longer to keep the water at the tempature set by the tempature sensor.  

We now take a hot shower everyday and my 2 year old plays in a warm baby pool almost everyday.  -  All of this is powered with solar. (and soon to be wind)   

If i'm on the hard (which i am right now) it still works just the same and If i plug in heat water just by using the battery charger.  

If you have a desire (or don't have one) to not have to run your genset to heat water daily then this is a good way to go provided you have enough solar to make it happen.  We have one fridge and one freezer and a 12 volt home built spectra watermaker.  All of the settings are controlled from my phone via the victron connect app.  I can completley turn off the water heater by accessign the battery protect  - there is a setting to disable.  

I do not have lithium batteries but my bank is large with 4 - L16 Flooded Wet Cell batteries with 840 Amp hours.  


Re: Onan ballbearing check and valves values

 

Sorry, guys. I did exactly the same thing as Gary Silver, and the bearing was never installed.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sat, May 16, 2020 at 12:45 PM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hi Gary,
It's been awhile, but I replaced the rotor bearing on my Northern Lights 6kw genset in situ with little difficulty. The rotor remains bolted to the flywheel as you remove the end with the bearing - no external support needed. I recall I did the old put-it-in-the-freezer trick to shrink the bearing and it slid in with no press needed.  That was at about 3000 hours; now I'm at 7500 and am overdue, so will tackle again soon. (I'm getting a very slight vibration with heavy loads.)
If you want to remove the rotor, as I did because it needed rewinding from salt water corrosion shorting the wires ($176 in La Paz VZ), it's heavy but quite manageable by hand. However it doesn't sound like you'd need to remove it for the 2500 hr. (if I recall correctly) bearing replacement..
Cheers, Craig


Re: Whole Boat Permanent Inverter for 220VAC 50Hz

Scott SV Tengah
 

Michael,

Have you used the VE-Config software, or other means, to check the output hz on your system when connected to 60hz shorepower? Does it show that you're getting 50hz output?

When I was designing my system, the Victron tech I talked to stated that the Victron Isolation Transformer is flexible in that it can accept 50/60hz but will not adjust a 60hz input to 50hz or vice versa. The data sheet seems to imply the same.
--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com