Date   

Replacement bow thruster feet available!

Davi Rozgonyi
 

Hey all! FYI I just spoke with Maud. Amel can happily fabricate brand new bow thruster lower units if yours is damaged beyond repair. About 3700 euros. I thought this was good to share in our community. Otherwise, as in my case, damaged tubes can easily be repaired by polyester /fiberglass repair persons.

Cheers! 


Re: Hardtop for Amel 54

Scott SV Tengah
 

Stefan,

This is exactly the data I was looking for - thank you.

So my math shows:

- Davit mounted (rigid?) panels produce about 33% more than surface mounted flexible panels. Makes sense since the hardtop mounted ones get hotter and/or are shaded more often.
- Comparing just davit mounted panels to davit mounted panels, lithium seems to result in the MPPT being able to put out almost twice the monthly cumulative power per watt of installed solar. That's pretty consistent with theory and what I saw when I compared my Victron output to another A54 who has a similar amount of installed solar in a similar location, with our only differences being lithium vs. agm.

I am guessing that you're wiring the hardtop mounted panels in serial. If you're bored and have nothing else to fix (hehe), I'd be curious what would happen to monthly solar output if you wired the flexible panels in parallel, which is theoretically more shade tolerant. That could make a big difference since your mizzen mast / main boom is probably shading one side or the other almost all day. Of course, you probably have to do a serial-parallel connection since I recall the flexible panels are usually 12v?


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Volvo D3 110 Sea Water Pump - Cover seal

Scott SV Tengah
 

Stefan,

I'm sure you have, but have you confirmed that the leak is from the cover? If the pump seal itself is leaking (ours did at around 2200hrs), saltwater will show up on that drip shield and might look like it comes from the pump cover.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Scott SV Tengah
 

Take a look at the photos posted earlier in this thread - the foam bits are attached to a separate line. Not connected to the coax itself.

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Scott SV Tengah
 

On the back of the ICOM vhf unit at the nav station, on A54 #69, the yellow/green bonding wire is connected to the case, specifically the "ground screw". Therefore case is grounded. I am not sure if Amel did this on SMs.

The outer part of the PL-259 plug is connected to the grounding foil on the coax cable. If you solder/crimp one on your own, this will become immediately apparent. At the head unit, that connects the PL-259 plug -> coax foil -> head unit case -> bonding

At the antenna, on A54 #69, the male threads of the VHF antenna is mounted through a drilled hole in a horizontal "platform" at the top of the mast. The female threads of the PL-259 are obviously continuous with the male threads of the antenna. Therefore the PL-259 is then continuous with the mast and therefore the rigging. On the old Banten antenna, the male threads were isolated since the antenna and coax were one piece and presumably designed so that the male threads are isolated from the coax ground foil. That is not the case with any antenna that uses a PL-259 plug.

I don't think connecting rigging to bonding is a bad thing. Per Olivier, Amel started doing this on A54s in 2009; I have asked a few post-2009 Amels who have not changed their VHF to test for continuity between bonding and rigging and they have confirmed that it exists. Therefore, I don't mind it. As a side benefit, once I made the change, there was much less tarnishing on stainless above the deck.  

--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Volvo D3 110 Sea Water Pump - Cover seal

Karen Smith
 

Like Bill R suggests...  but also, look VERY closely at the smooth surface that the O-ring seals against.  A scratch there can make it impossible to get a good seal.  Anything you can feel with your fingernail is going to be a problem.

If you have scratches or other flaws, a very light addition of RTV gasket compound can fix it in the short run until a new smooth metal part can be obtained.  Too much RTV here can really cause issues with the pump.

Bill Kinney
SM160, Harmonie
Charleston, SC, USA


Re: Volvo D3 110 Sea Water Pump - Cover seal

Stefan Schaufert
 

Thank you Bill.
I just put it on my order list.

Best regards
Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


Re: Hardtop for Amel 54

Stefan Schaufert
 

Hi Scott,

I'm with you. The peak is not important, only interesting. I can only show you the average of the last 30 days.
I think it's appr. 40-45 kWh one month.
The panels (600W) over the Davids perform better (about 60 kWh), but the cockpit panels are a very good addition to keep the generator off for days.
Batteries are „only“ AGM - thus for charging is a lot potential left.

Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Patrick McAneny
 

Davi, I can't suggest anything new about getting the shaft free. When I first tried to free it about 14 yrs. ago , my boat was on the hard , I dropped the bow thruster hard about 30 times and it finally broke free. 
However about the scratch on the tube, if  is not too deep ,and no structural weakness incurred , I would just fill the scratch with Interlux Watertite epoxy filler and sand smooth . This product is excellent to fill holes ,dings ,etc. below the waterline . It is waterproof ,dries rock hard , it does take a little effort to sand ,so don't build it up beyond what is necessary. Of course you would want to  degrease the area before applying it.
Good Luck,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Feb 7, 2021 10:35 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Bow thruster tube anomaly

Bill, I got that tool cranked on as tight as humanly possible without resorting to a breaker bar right at the very top of tube, it seems to be holding, no sandpaper (it fits tighter). I'm going to keep this up for a few days.

If no luck, I was considering removing the tool, and building a cofferdam directly under the cast iron using plastic wrap, zip ties, duct tape, whatever wax sealant etc. Then I can empty a half can of penetrant and it will make a pool of the stuff an inch above the joint, leaving that for a few days and trying the tool again. Like putting a bag of vinegar on a shower head. Sound good?

I would tremendously appreciate any advice though on if a good fibreglass guy could repair the gouge in the tube later. It is not all the way through thank goodness. Is that the way to repair it? 


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Arnold Mente
 

i will use this coupling, cut the cable at antenna and connect the new one with the attached plug!

Arnold
SV Zephyr
SM 203



Am 07.02.2021 um 20:32 schrieb Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...>:

Hi Mark,
 
Are the foam bits attached to a cord? I assumed they would be attached to VHF cable.
 
 
With best regards,
 
Mark
 
Skipper
Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275
Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia
 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 5:57 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.
 
Mark,

In my case, there is no way to attach a new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast.  At least not that is apparent to me.  The original RG58 Cable seems to be "hardwired" to the Banten AIS antenna at the top of the mizzen mast.  It may be different on Cream Puff.  

I can, however, attach a new cable at the base of the mast and pull a new cable up the mast to the top of the mast.  

Fortunately, I have the luxury of having my mast horizontal and 4' off the ground while in the mainland USA in the land of Amazon, West Marine, Defender, etc. to figure out what I will do next.  I am planning to replace both the VHF and AIS with antennas that have a PL259 connection at the base of the antenna and run LMR-400 cables to the VHF and AIS. I will let you know how that goes.

-- 
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA 



--
Arnold
SY Zephyr SM203


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

rossirossix4
 
Edited

A series of hose clamps below the Amel tool will prevent slippage and spread the clamping load on the tube--I suppose you could use as many as you want.  You could experiement with silicone sealer on the hose clamps as well. Residual sealant could be removed with a plastic scraper.

Once you are ready to reassemble *LanoCote® is my preference for coating the spline of the drive shaft and the receiving cavity of the motor.  It is firmer than grease and proven to prevent corrosion.

Bob Rossi KAIMI SM429

*"Formulated to withstand salt water marine conditions, LanoCote® is particularly useful in preventing thread seizure due to all types of corrosion on boats and machinery. Applied during assembly, LanoCote® will greatly assist in easy dismantling years later. For example, you can coat and lubricate anchor shackles which are regularly immersed in salt water. "


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

Hi Mark,

 

Are the foam bits attached to a cord? I assumed they would be attached to VHF cable.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mark McGovern
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 5:57 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark,

In my case, there is no way to attach a new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast.  At least not that is apparent to me.  The original RG58 Cable seems to be "hardwired" to the Banten AIS antenna at the top of the mizzen mast.  It may be different on Cream Puff. 

I can, however, attach a new cable at the base of the mast and pull a new cable up the mast to the top of the mast.  

Fortunately, I have the luxury of having my mast horizontal and 4' off the ground while in the mainland USA in the land of Amazon, West Marine, Defender, etc. to figure out what I will do next.  I am planning to replace both the VHF and AIS with antennas that have a PL259 connection at the base of the antenna and run LMR-400 cables to the VHF and AIS. I will let you know how that goes.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


Re: Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

Mark Erdos
 

I am not sure how using the PL-259 plug would connect the rigging to the bonding system. The rigging is not connected to the boding system and neither is the VHF radio. Am I missing something?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Scott SV Tengah
Sent: Saturday, February 6, 2021 7:46 PM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Tips appreciated: Major frustration trying to pull cable through Mizzen.

 

Mark and Mark,

 

On our A54 #69, the old RG58 was in fact hard wired to the Banten antenna. The easy solution if you want to do it CP's suggested method is to just cut the old rg58 at the antennaand tape the new cable to the old. Of course once you cut it, you're committed, so you better hope that the tape doesn't come apart! As an aside, I believe Amel chose a one piece antenna/cable combo to keep the mast/riggingisolated from the bonding system as they used to do pre-2009. Once you install a different antenna and put a PL-259 on it (self amalgamating tape and electrical tape it well after installation!), the PL-259 "outer part", via the ground foil, will connect to the case of the VHF and the case of the VHF is bonded. I am fine with that because Amel has decided to do that on all post-2009 Amels. In our case, this change caused the Masse-neg light to glow brightly since we had a neg leak via the bow nav lights that I had previously been unaware of. Just be aware that after going with PL-259 terminated wires, your rigging will be connected to bonding.

 

For the main, for our VHF cable replacement a bit over a year ago, we did it the way that CP suggested. We used RG8x taped to the old RG58 and we could pull it through, albeit with much effort. Later we tried to use the mousing line to pull through a Cat7 ethernet cable for our masthead mounted wifi antenna. That was not successful and we had to remove the foam bits, which made it 10x easier. 

 

Mark-Cara: we tried to run LMR400 and it's a very very tight fit and we probably damaged the wire while attempting it; that said, our mast is not horizontal. Also keep in mind that there's RG58 from the base of the mast to the nav station. If you don't replace all of it, you'll have low-loss down the mast and then silly-small RG58 from the mast ot the vhf. Same with our AIS antenna on the mizzen.

 

When we replaced the mizzen AIS cabling, the same method did not work. The foam bits had rotated and also I think the in-mast conduit is a bit smaller, so no amount of pulling could get the taped combination old/new cable through. You have to remove the pieces of foam.

 

As Oliver suggested, put the line with the foam bits back. We tried to go without but you could definitely hear the cables banging around. If you break the foam bits, they're just the sealing gaskets for the Goiot portlights. Pretty easy to find online.

 

Hope this helps.

 

On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 4:57 AM Mark McGovern <mfmcgovern@...> wrote:

Mark,

In my case, there is no way to attach a new cable to the old cable at the top of the mast.  At least not that is apparent to me.  The original RG58 Cable seems to be "hardwired" to the Banten AIS antenna at the top of the mizzen mast.  It may be different on Cream Puff. 

I can, however, attach a new cable at the base of the mast and pull a new cable up the mast to the top of the mast.  

Fortunately, I have the luxury of having my mast horizontal and 4' off the ground while in the mainland USA in the land of Amazon, West Marine, Defender, etc. to figure out what I will do next.  I am planning to replace both the VHF and AIS with antennas that have a PL259 connection at the base of the antenna and run LMR-400 cables to the VHF and AIS. I will let you know how that goes.

--
Mark McGovern
SM #440 Cara
Deale, MD USA


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Davi,

Sounds good on the cofferdam. Yes, an experienced fiberglass repair person would be what I would do.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 9:37 AM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

Bill, I got that tool cranked on as tight as humanly possible without resorting to a breaker bar right at the very top of tube, it seems to be holding, no sandpaper (it fits tighter). I'm going to keep this up for a few days.

If no luck, I was considering removing the tool, and building a cofferdam directly under the cast iron using plastic wrap, zip ties, duct tape, whatever wax sealant etc. Then I can empty a half can of penetrant and it will make a pool of the stuff an inch above the joint, leaving that for a few days and trying the tool again. Like putting a bag of vinegar on a shower head. Sound good?

Edit, I would put back the Allen bolts maybe to prevent the fluid from dropping into the shaft for some period as well... 

I would tremendously appreciate any advice though on if a good fibreglass guy could repair the gouge in the tube later. It is not all the way through thank goodness. Is that the way to repair it?


Re: Hardtop for Amel 54

Scott SV Tengah
 

Thanks Stefan. Do you have the ability to record the total solar amp-hours or kilowatt-hours per day? Your peak output is encouraging but I am wondering how much power it produces in total through the course of a day, which would take into account the shading. Even better would be an average over a month or so.


On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 3:14 PM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Hello Scott,
 
thanks for the flowers.
 
It took us (my poor wife and me) about 2.5 weeks to finish the surfaces of both roof sections. Now I highly recommend giving this to a professional handyman. It becomes much more economical and the result is more perfect.
For the installation of the plexiglass parts, seals, solar etc. we needed about 1 week.
All full time, so don't ask about our own labor costs ;-).
 
All external services / work / materials cost around 6 500 EUR - provided you already have the winter enclosure.
 
"Packing and selling" (I assume you mean "Make it in a serie") does not seem to be an option, or at least very difficult, as the cockpit dimensions of the respective boat have to be taken into account (e.g. for the position of the plywood inserts for connection on the bimini frame).
 
Now to your questions ;-):
1) Depending on the shadows of the masts and main boom (shrouds don't seem to be a problem) I've seen (without shading) up to 700W in Martinique in May 2020 and now up to 580W in the Bahamas. With shading, of course, significantly less.
2) No mold on the hardtop, but (of course some) dirt under the panels - despite spacers (to get air under the flexible panels and to flush rainwater).

Stefan
A54 # 119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Davi Rozgonyi
 
Edited

Bill, I got that tool cranked on as tight as humanly possible without resorting to a breaker bar right at the very top of tube, it seems to be holding, no sandpaper (it fits tighter). I'm going to keep this up for a few days.

If no luck, I was considering removing the tool, and building a cofferdam directly under the cast iron using plastic wrap, zip ties, duct tape, whatever wax sealant etc. Then I can empty a half can of penetrant and it will make a pool of the stuff an inch above the joint, leaving that for a few days and trying the tool again. Like putting a bag of vinegar on a shower head. Sound good?

Edit, I would put back the Allen bolts maybe to prevent the fluid from dropping into the shaft for some period as well... 

I would tremendously appreciate any advice though on if a good fibreglass guy could repair the gouge in the tube later. It is not all the way through thank goodness. Is that the way to repair it?


Re: Volvo D3 110 Sea Water Pump - Cover seal

 

I think Dow MolyKote will solve the problem. Use it on all O rings

image.png
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 7:50 AM Stefan Schaufert <mail@...> wrote:
Dear Amelians,

only a little problem and a simple question:
 
What is the trick to make the seawater pump cover waterproof?
 
I serviced the o-ring, used a new one, greased the contact surfaces, checked and cleaned the cover surface, etc.
It continues to drip (a bit, but annoying).

Thx a lot for your appreciated hints.

Stefan
A54 #119 Lady Charlyette, currently Bahamas


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

 

Davi,

I know you probably know this, but a few owners applied force using the tool, and 3 days later the tube broke free. 
Tool Method (I recommend):
• Purchase the tool from Amel.
• Remove 4 Allen Head bolts spray penetrating fluid inside holes and the joint. Let it sit 24 hours.
• Clamp the TOOL near the motor base with the 4 bolts facing downward around the tube, using some medium sandpaper between the too and the tube, increasing friction between the tool and tube.
Tighten each bolt ½ turn against the motor base (if this tightening is not done evenly, you will jam the tube into the motor base)
• Repeat above until it breaks free. It may take 2-3 days with constant pressure with the tightened 4 blots for it to break free

It sounds as though the lubricant you used at the joint has lubricated the shaft and tool. Try to use something to remove the lubricant from the shaft and tool, apply force using the tool, and vibration periodically using a drill-hammer (with a piece of steel rod rather than a drill bit) and checking for tightness of the tool. Assuming days to separation.

Patience.

A hammer drill, also known as a percussion drill or impact drill, is a power tool used chiefly for drilling in hard materials. ... The percussive mechanism provides a rapid succession of short hammer thrusts.
image.png

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Sun, Feb 7, 2021 at 8:01 AM Davi Rozgonyi <davi.rozgonyi@...> wrote:
Hey there, if the shaft was heated that much and didn't separate, what was the solution?

I'm back to using the Amel tool for now. The sandpaper ring does not prevent it from slipping down despite cleaning of the shaft and tool. Other problem is any penetrant I squirt in drips straight out onto the tool. How much torque can I apply to the tool/tube? After damaging it I am leery of putting a pipe on the socket, but I have the tool as tight on as a typical Spanner can torque, held by a 180 lb person in anger.

Any thoughts on this: I have a hydraulic bottle jack. If I put some wood on the floor of the bowthruster locker (on top of the glass cofferdam box in which the foot retracts) and Jack gently up straight on the iron ring on the motor, I won't be touching the fibre shaft at all. Surely this could bust it loose more gently than banging the motor up and down, no? Or use this method to apply a bit more force than the slipping tool and then tap tap tap on the collar or shaft? 


Re: Bow thruster tube anomaly

Trevor Lusty
 

The answer was even more heat and hammering, it wasn't pretty.  The only good thing that comes out of this is, you will never let it happen again! Your jack idea I think, is going to put massive loading on the polyester which it was never designed for and I am guessing that you won't get an even pressure around the ring which may push the entire assembly out of column.  So has it the potential to do more harm than good?  Is there any way to develop Craig's idea, because I seem to remember from before, this has been solved by getting some lateral pressure onto the shaft . Unfortunately the tube is a rea PIA right now and stops you getting at the splines on the shaft.
T


Re: Propeller recommendation

Martin Birkhoff
 

Hi Alex,
before we got our A54 we sailed a Reinke Super 11. This is an aluminium bilge keel design of German origin, overall length 39 feet. It was fitted with an Daimler-Benz OM 616 with 54 hp and a fix 3-bladed prop of 19" adjusted to this engine power. The boat had an extreme tendency to weather helm in gusts. Sailing performance was poor - we never set sails with less than 10 knots of wind. Standard speed on engine had been some 6 knots at 2200 rpm. 
After some research we changed to an Autoprop of 19" specified for our engine. Result: The boat was able to sail in light wind conditions down to 5-6 knots of wind properly, even downwind, sailing speed had increased 1 to 1.5 knots depending on sea conditions, the tendency of weather helming disappeared nearly, speed under engine increased to 6.5 kn at 2.000 rpm. Fuel consumption was reduced. Power going forward/backward was more or less identic. The side shift of the propeller going backwards was more or less similar to the fix-bladed.
Disadvantages: the Autoprop needs a certain amount of time to adjust its blades (or a strong push with the throttle) by manouvering. With the fix-blade prop the boat started immidiately when clutched in. With Autoprop it needed some seconds or a strong push as mentioned.
We sailed the Autoprop from 2000 to 2008 and later from 2010 until we sold the boat in 2016. Always pleased. 
Except once: In very rough but short seas in the LeMaire Strait we tried "to escape" to a small bay. We run the engine but steering against this seas we had no effect. First we thought to have lost the prop. So we decided to sail out of the channel to open waters and turned, figuring out the prop was still on the shaft and pushing. It must have been a rare combination of wave shape and intensity, boat movements, position of the prop on our boat etc. which caused this effect. We believe there never was sufficient time for the blades to adjust properly because of extreme fast changing conditions at the prop. We never had this again in all conditions we had to face later on, and we never heard a similar story from other owners of this kind of prop. 
After damaging the prop by hitting lots of wooden trunks in South American rivers we got a 4-blade SPW prop of 19". We chosed 4 blades to get more or less the same propulsion compared to the former Autoprop. The blades of this prop are connected and are turning their narrow sides to the bow while sailing. It´s not a foldable prop. 4 blades were needed because of the different design (blades are absolut symmetric). It was adjusted according to the needs of engine of course by limiting the blades rotation to to adjustable angles (forward and backward). 
Result: More or less similar than the Autoprop, but starting faster to move the boat on one hand, on the other hand less effective going backwards because the prop pitch was limited to a certain angle. We sailed these prop for some 15 month.
Our A54 is fitted with an Autoprop. It is performing absolut reliable. We cannot imagine to face the problem mentioned above with an Amel due to the props position in deep water behind the keel. 

Our conclusions outcoming of our experiences and experiences of friends is
- there is no good prop which is a cheap prop as long you avoid a fix-bladed one
- all props with moving parts need a certain specific amount of maintenance
- if you vote for a fixed-blade prop you have to know that your sailing speed will decrease and a weather helming can show up.     

Martin
Mago del Sur - A54#040

 

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