Date   

SM Hawse pipe

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi all.

I have arrived where all us SM oweners will some time and am replacing the hawse pipe from the deck through the port deck locker. The old mild steel on didnt look too bad till  I hit it with a hammer and all the rust fell off. See the attached photo of the old pipe and my new stainless pipe ready to be glassed in.

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl


running rigging on Sharki

Peter Baumann
 

We bought Sharki 162 last fall and did not get a chance to sail her till now. Trouble is that sails and running rigging (I hope) are stored below deck and I have never seen the boat with the running rigging installed. Does anyone have a running rigging diagram or pictures that they would be
willing to share. The same question was asked in 2005, but the link in the answer is no longer active.
Thanks a bunch,
Pete


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Mike Ondra
 

Thanks James. This is good information.

Epoxying in a fiberglass tube riser will be my next/third attempt… if the sanitary hose solution doesn’t hold up.

Regards,

Mike

ALETES SM#240

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of James Alton via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 2:50 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

 

Mike,

 

   I have built a few custom holding tank systems for boats (Not yet on an Amel) that have so far proven reliable.  I think that the most important step if you want to minimize problems is to eliminate ALL metal in the system that is exposed to the corrosive contents.  Polyester/glass will work,  Epoxy/Glass is better IMO because Epoxy does a better job to contain odours and is not as prone to water absorption.    I also apply a barrier coating on the inside of the tank prior to closing it.  It may not be essential to add a barrier coating since I build the tanks I have built used epoxy resin but I tend to go with belts and suspenders on these kinds of projects!    The suggestion of using hard PVC pipe to reduce odours is a good one and far superior to using hose, even the best sanitation hose.  If you want to take it a step further you can use fibreglass pipe that can be fibreglassed right to the tank, eliminating a lot of the leak prone joints. You can buy polyester/fiberglass exhaust pipe in various sizes and a few shapes.  The pipe is a little thin I think..   While you can bond some materials such as PVC to a fibreglass tank, the bond is quite poor structurally as compared to properly joining two compatible pcs. of fibreglass.  It’s not hard to cut a fibreglass pipe if needed for service in the future and either glass it back together with wraps of glass tape/epoxy  or in a pinch you can put in a length of hose until more permanent repairs can be made.  While time consuming compared to the normal methods of running hose,  it is possible to make custom epoxy fibreglass piping to the exact non clogging  (gentle curves)  shapes desired and to make them strong which is my preferred method.  I like to make the pipe walls about as thick as the tank and glass the joints together.   All of the tank input pipes that I have installed come in at the very top of the tank with no downward extension.  I am not sure why the pipe apparently extended to the bottom of your tank which as you suggest would appear to create a siphon effect, keeping pressure on your back flow devices.   Sorry for the problems,  best of luck in finding a solution that works for you.

 

James

 

   

On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:42 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

 

From ALETES, SM#240 1999 with Jabsco manual pump: Head backflow and Holding Tanks

We have persistently had issues with holding tank backflow to the toilet requiring frequent cleaning or replacement of the joker valve. Additional measures have included the addition of a Jabsco check valve as well as the installation of the “locking” version of the Jabsco manual pump. Three layers of defense could not defeat the backflow problem, apparently due to buildup of crystals on all the backflow preventive devices.   

Also, we have experienced leakage at the connections of the riser hoses (both inlet and outlet) where they connect to the tank. As others have noted, that connection on some models is a copper sleeve that is glassed into the tank, and that copper corrodes over time developing pin-holes and associated leaks. Nasty. Band-aid fixes over the years usually held for a time, but the corrosion keeps on working and leaks reappear.

During our latest effort at cleaning and replacing the valves we had a surprise. As anyone who has removed the riser pipe that connects the pump to the tank knows, the contents of the entire riser drain out. Hence it is prudent to flush with a significant volume of water prior to attempting the disconnect. By doing so, the contents that spill into the shower pan are “mostly” clean water.  In this last removal, however, the contents of the ENTIRE holding tank spilled into the shower pan (no further description required). So now we are apparently dealing with a third holding tank issue. Time for a major effort in holding tank repair. 

The internal workings of the holding tank have always been a bit of mystery as there is no access port and the 3 openings to the tank are rather small, basically 1.5”. We have not seen shop drawings or photos of the interior of the tank, but from BB postings, our understanding has been that from the copper sleeve penetrating the fiberglass there is a riser tube in the tank that delivers the waste and spills somewhere near the top of the tank. So before developing a plan of attack for repairs, we removed the deck plate to get slightly larger access to the tank to see what was inside and perhaps determine the problem. Here are the long-awaited photos of the inside of the tank looking down from the deck plate.  

<image018.png>  <image019.png>  <image020.png>

So as one can see, the copper sleeve also corroded within the tank and ultimately the riser extension within the tank separated from it. Wastes were being pumped into the BOTTOM of the tank, and any disconnection of the riser hose in the inboard side would drain any remaining contents within the tank above the drain sump. One curiosity is why the riser within the tank would loop up and then back down so that the discharge point is low in the tank. We couldn’t see but presume there is no vacuum breaker at the top of the loop, so as soon as the contents level would be above the discharge end of the loop, the riser would not drain itself, and in fact become a siphon for backflow. Anyway, since it seemed attached to the tank wall and/or top and we could not get into the tank to disconnect, we could not remove it and it was abandoned in place. NOTE TO OTHERS who have experienced the corrosion of the copper sleeve below the tank - this failure within the tank may be in your future as well.

Mark Erdos on May 3, 2017 posted an excellent description of his fix for the inboard portion of the copper pipe corrosion while leaving the upper copper pipe and its connection within the tank in place. This was not an option for us due to the separation above. So, following his procedure but completely removing the copper, our solution was a continuous piece of sanitary hose from check-valve near the pump all the way to the top of the holding tank, no connections to leak. 

<image021.png>    <image022.png>

We reamed out the hole in the fiberglass with rotary rasp so the tubing would slip through. Flared the top of the hole a bit to receive epoxy resin that would seal around the tubing and ooze down between the tube and the fiberglass. Putty was placed around the internal end of the joint to prevent the epoxy from running out. The resin was delivered to the flared opening at the top of the tube/fiberglass joint by pouring it down a PVC pipe/straw. 

<image023.png>   <image022.png>

After curing we filled the tank with clean water to test for leaks. There seemed to be none. However, overnight there was evidence of a slight leak. We suspect there was insuffient gap between the tube and the fiberglass for the somewhat viscous resin to fully flow and fill. Otherwise, this solution seems good. So now the plan is to remove the tube, ream out the fiberglass a bit more to achieve, say, a 2mm gap between them and once again fill with resin. 

Any comments, experiences, words of wisdom appreciated as we plan for this FINAL fix.

Mike Ondra, ALETES SM#240, Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: In or out of gear?

James Alton
 

Miles,

I am interested in hearing what advice you get on this one. I would only add that spinning props at anchor concern me since they can pick up a line, trash etc. so I have always stopped the props of the various boats I have owned when at anchor. Nothing worse than having a storm come up in the middle of the night and finding that your prop is fouled…

Glad to hear that you are aboard and enjoying your Maramu! We are still waiting for Greece to reopen to US/Canadian travellers.

Best,

James
SV Sueño
Amel Maramu #220

On Jun 23, 2020, at 1:26 PM, smiles bernard via groups.io <smilesbernard=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Hello there fellow Amelians
We have just loved our vintage Maramu ti here new home up the Tamar river in the UK.
Lovely spot on a swinging mooring but the tide rips through at 4 knots at springs

So much so that the prop spins along.

Normally when sailing leave the prop freespining - not least to generate power but also I believe that’s advised for my Hurth gearbox.

Does anyone have advise for when on a mooring ? My feeling is that days and days of freespining prop can only add wear and so I am tempted to put her in reverse

Thoughts most welcome

Miles
Maramu #162



Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

James Alton
 

Mike,

   I have built a few custom holding tank systems for boats (Not yet on an Amel) that have so far proven reliable.  I think that the most important step if you want to minimize problems is to eliminate ALL metal in the system that is exposed to the corrosive contents.  Polyester/glass will work,  Epoxy/Glass is better IMO because Epoxy does a better job to contain odours and is not as prone to water absorption.    I also apply a barrier coating on the inside of the tank prior to closing it.  It may not be essential to add a barrier coating since I build the tanks I have built used epoxy resin but I tend to go with belts and suspenders on these kinds of projects!    The suggestion of using hard PVC pipe to reduce odours is a good one and far superior to using hose, even the best sanitation hose.  If you want to take it a step further you can use fibreglass pipe that can be fibreglassed right to the tank, eliminating a lot of the leak prone joints. You can buy polyester/fiberglass exhaust pipe in various sizes and a few shapes.  The pipe is a little thin I think..   While you can bond some materials such as PVC to a fibreglass tank, the bond is quite poor structurally as compared to properly joining two compatible pcs. of fibreglass.  It’s not hard to cut a fibreglass pipe if needed for service in the future and either glass it back together with wraps of glass tape/epoxy  or in a pinch you can put in a length of hose until more permanent repairs can be made.  While time consuming compared to the normal methods of running hose,  it is possible to make custom epoxy fibreglass piping to the exact non clogging  (gentle curves)  shapes desired and to make them strong which is my preferred method.  I like to make the pipe walls about as thick as the tank and glass the joints together.   All of the tank input pipes that I have installed come in at the very top of the tank with no downward extension.  I am not sure why the pipe apparently extended to the bottom of your tank which as you suggest would appear to create a siphon effect, keeping pressure on your back flow devices.   Sorry for the problems,  best of luck in finding a solution that works for you.

James

   

On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:42 PM, Mike Ondra via groups.io <mdondra@...> wrote:

From ALETES, SM#240 1999 with Jabsco manual pump: Head backflow and Holding Tanks

We have persistently had issues with holding tank backflow to the toilet requiring frequent cleaning or replacement of the joker valve. Additional measures have included the addition of a Jabsco check valve as well as the installation of the “locking” version of the Jabsco manual pump. Three layers of defense could not defeat the backflow problem, apparently due to buildup of crystals on all the backflow preventive devices.   

Also, we have experienced leakage at the connections of the riser hoses (both inlet and outlet) where they connect to the tank. As others have noted, that connection on some models is a copper sleeve that is glassed into the tank, and that copper corrodes over time developing pin-holes and associated leaks. Nasty. Band-aid fixes over the years usually held for a time, but the corrosion keeps on working and leaks reappear.

During our latest effort at cleaning and replacing the valves we had a surprise. As anyone who has removed the riser pipe that connects the pump to the tank knows, the contents of the entire riser drain out. Hence it is prudent to flush with a significant volume of water prior to attempting the disconnect. By doing so, the contents that spill into the shower pan are “mostly” clean water.  In this last removal, however, the contents of the ENTIRE holding tank spilled into the shower pan (no further description required). So now we are apparently dealing with a third holding tank issue. Time for a major effort in holding tank repair. 

The internal workings of the holding tank have always been a bit of mystery as there is no access port and the 3 openings to the tank are rather small, basically 1.5”. We have not seen shop drawings or photos of the interior of the tank, but from BB postings, our understanding has been that from the copper sleeve penetrating the fiberglass there is a riser tube in the tank that delivers the waste and spills somewhere near the top of the tank. So before developing a plan of attack for repairs, we removed the deck plate to get slightly larger access to the tank to see what was inside and perhaps determine the problem. Here are the long-awaited photos of the inside of the tank looking down from the deck plate.  

<image018.png>  <image019.png>  <image020.png>

So as one can see, the copper sleeve also corroded within the tank and ultimately the riser extension within the tank separated from it. Wastes were being pumped into the BOTTOM of the tank, and any disconnection of the riser hose in the inboard side would drain any remaining contents within the tank above the drain sump. One curiosity is why the riser within the tank would loop up and then back down so that the discharge point is low in the tank. We couldn’t see but presume there is no vacuum breaker at the top of the loop, so as soon as the contents level would be above the discharge end of the loop, the riser would not drain itself, and in fact become a siphon for backflow. Anyway, since it seemed attached to the tank wall and/or top and we could not get into the tank to disconnect, we could not remove it and it was abandoned in place. NOTE TO OTHERS who have experienced the corrosion of the copper sleeve below the tank - this failure within the tank may be in your future as well.

Mark Erdos on May 3, 2017 posted an excellent description of his fix for the inboard portion of the copper pipe corrosion while leaving the upper copper pipe and its connection within the tank in place. This was not an option for us due to the separation above. So, following his procedure but completely removing the copper, our solution was a continuous piece of sanitary hose from check-valve near the pump all the way to the top of the holding tank, no connections to leak. 

<image021.png>    <image022.png>

We reamed out the hole in the fiberglass with rotary rasp so the tubing would slip through. Flared the top of the hole a bit to receive epoxy resin that would seal around the tubing and ooze down between the tube and the fiberglass. Putty was placed around the internal end of the joint to prevent the epoxy from running out. The resin was delivered to the flared opening at the top of the tube/fiberglass joint by pouring it down a PVC pipe/straw. 

<image023.png>   <image022.png>

After curing we filled the tank with clean water to test for leaks. There seemed to be none. However, overnight there was evidence of a slight leak. We suspect there was insuffient gap between the tube and the fiberglass for the somewhat viscous resin to fully flow and fill. Otherwise, this solution seems good. So now the plan is to remove the tube, ream out the fiberglass a bit more to achieve, say, a 2mm gap between them and once again fill with resin. 

Any comments, experiences, words of wisdom appreciated as we plan for this FINAL fix.

Mike Ondra, ALETES SM#240, Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 

 

 

 



Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

 

This is a personal opinion: I do not believe that compost toilets and Amels go together.

This is a personal rant that I have previously expressed: Since no Amel was ever produced with a compost toilet, possibly the Prime Directive should be considered.

This is a professional opinion: Let me assure you that you will have difficulty selling that composted Amel at the time that you need to sell her, and, unless she sinks, there will be a time in the future to sell her.

This is a joke: Composted boats just don't smell right.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 12:27 PM Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Perhaps the biggest issue with the compost heads I see is the ability to find the fresh peat moss or coconut fiber needed to make the compost. The whereabouts seems to be a common question asked on various FB groups in places we’ve traveled. 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:50 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

 

Nice write-up Mike
A task that will inevitably zoom up the jobs list when that leak appears.
We were looking at compost toilet options recently..  no more valves, holding tank or backflow. Seems almost too good to be true - but people who have them swear by them!
Cheers
Woody


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Mark Erdos
 

Perhaps the biggest issue with the compost heads I see is the ability to find the fresh peat moss or coconut fiber needed to make the compost. The whereabouts seems to be a common question asked on various FB groups in places we’ve traveled. 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 3:50 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

 

Nice write-up Mike
A task that will inevitably zoom up the jobs list when that leak appears.
We were looking at compost toilet options recently..  no more valves, holding tank or backflow. Seems almost too good to be true - but people who have them swear by them!
Cheers
Woody


In or out of gear?

smiles bernard
 

Hello there fellow Amelians
We have just loved our vintage Maramu ti here new home up the Tamar river in the UK.
Lovely spot on a swinging mooring but the tide rips through at 4 knots at springs

So much so that the prop spins along.

Normally when sailing leave the prop freespining - not least to generate power but also I believe that’s advised for my Hurth gearbox.

Does anyone have advise for when on a mooring ? My feeling is that days and days of freespining prop can only add wear and so I am tempted to put her in reverse

Thoughts most welcome

Miles
Maramu #162


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Mike Ondra
 

High Woody.

Can’t say I know much about composting toilets in boats. I can say that I was in the composting toilet business (Clivus Multrum) for probably 10 years back in the 70’s with hundreds installed in homes and public places. These were large volume slow process composters no way suitable to boats. Perhaps the new small composters with heat produce more rapid decomposition and dehydration.

Best of luck.

Mike

ALETES SM#240 – Rock Hall, MD

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Alan "Woody" Wood
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2020 9:50 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

 

Nice write-up Mike
A task that will inevitably zoom up the jobs list when that leak appears.
We were looking at compost toilet options recently..  no more valves, holding tank or backflow. Seems almost too good to be true - but people who have them swear by them!
Cheers
Woody


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Alan "Woody" Wood
 

Nice write-up Mike
A task that will inevitably zoom up the jobs list when that leak appears.
We were looking at compost toilet options recently..  no more valves, holding tank or backflow. Seems almost too good to be true - but people who have them swear by them!
Cheers
Woody


Re: Eno 4 burner #stove question #stove

Arno Luijten
 

Your stove may be thermostatically controlled. If the sensor is not working anymore this could be the result. I'm not sure if you can replace only the sensor. It may be an integral part with the regulator (the thing behind the knob). It that case you need to replace the regulator as well.
Prepare to take out the stove and be amazed on the (lack of) build quality of an ENO stove when you disassemble it.

Regards,

Arno Luijten
SV Luna,
A54-121


Eno 4 burner #stove question #stove

David Kurtz
 

I have the original Eno range and stove on my Amel.  The range works fine.  The first time I tried to use the oven I initially had problems getting it to light.  Finally the burner tube around the top of the oven stayed lit, but would not heat up very much at all.  I would expect that as I dialed up the temperature on the oven control knob that the flame size would increase, but nothing happened other than just staying lit.  Before I tear into this project I thought I would solicit the expertise of this group to see if anyone else has had this problem.  Gas supply is not an issue.  I recently filled the tanks and I can run all four burners on the stovetop at the same time.

Thanks folks!
--
Dave Kurtz
SM2 #380
S/V Celtic Cross

Detroit, Michigan


Emails from our Group Bouncing when sent to some members. #IMPORTANT

 

We have a number of members whose email is not working. I looked at the individual records. It is difficult for me to tell why this is happening and it appears that most of these members applied when we were still with Yahoo. In the next several days, I will be removing some of these accounts, beginning with the oldest first.

Please notify me (brouse"at"gmail.com) if this has any effect on your ability to use our group.
--
 
Best,
 
CW Bill Rouse brouse@... 
Amel Owners Yacht School
720 Winnie St
Galveston Island, TX 77550

+1(832) 380-4970


Re: Heave-to

Alan Leslie
 

I have had pvc pipe on the forward and main shrouds of every boat I've had.
Chafe is one of your worst enemies.

We have hove-to on Elyse on a number of occasions. Most major between NZ and the Australs heading for Tahiti, a depreesion moved at high speed south from Fiji and we were caught in huge seas and 60+ knots. Elyse has a staysail on an inner forestay, which we were using at the time. We furled the main (genoa was already furled), tacked and hove to with the staysail and backed mizzen (known as jib and jigger), adjusted the wheel to keep her just forereaching and went below. She stayed like that all night, we had showers, hot food and SLEEP. In the morning the seas had died down a little, wind was down to 40 knots. We undid the wheel, got back on course and carried on.

Everyone should know how to make their boat heave-to.

Cheers
Alan
Elyse SM437 


Re: Heave-to

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi, I undid the front lower shroud and threaded on a length of 20mm pvc water pipe on each side It is there permanently.

Regards

Danny

SM 299

Ocean Pearl

On 21 June 2020 at 13:21 "karkauai via groups.io" <karkauai@...> wrote:

Good advice, Mark,
I forgot Todo that and have to replace that sheet now.
Kent

On Jun 19, 2020 6:58 PM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Kent and Iris,

 

Great info!

I would add, using chafing protection is a must. I have a length of fire-hose that I made three ply. I cut it lengthwise so I can position the hose over the forward main halyard to protect the jib sheet from chafing on the wire.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 6:46 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heave-to

 

Hi Paul,

Every boat is going to be a little different depending on load distribution (center of lateral resistance) and even sail shape (center if effort). That's what works on Kristy and should be a pretty good place to start with most Amel SuperMaramus. I haven't tried it on a SN or A54.

 

I generally start with the sails furled as if I were sailing in the maximum wind I expect.  I recommend trying it in 15-20 kts until you know how your boat will react so you don't have to make too many adjustments in big breaking seas. 

 

Where ever you start, if you are pointing too high, try adding a bit of jib or reducing the amount of Mizzen. If you are falling off, reduce jib and/or let more Mizzen out. Once you are between 80 & 90 deg off the wind, if you are still sailing out if the slick, bring the Mizzen traveler upwind some more and)or sheet the Genoa in a bit.  You'll probably have to fall off and jibe to make changes in very high winds, then heave-to again.

 

If you are sailing short-handed and just need some rest, or a hot meal, or need to wait for sunrise before entering an unknown harbor, this calms everything down dramatically. I don't like to bash tacking upwind in steep seas, just don't make enough headway to be worth the wear and tear, so if I expect the wind to shift in a day or two, I heave-to and sail again when it's not so hard on the boat and crew.

 

I haven't hove-to in anything bigger than 12-15' seas, but I think it should be a pretty good technique in up to 60kts)20ft seas. After that running with a warp or drogue may be a better approach.

 

Have fun with it, l bet you'll find that you use it more often than you anticipate.

Kent and Iris

Kristy

SM 243

 

On Jun 19, 2020 9:08 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Kent,

 

That is an excellent explanation, and one presumably specific to Amel ketches?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of karkauai via groups.io
Sent: 19 June 2020 00:33
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heave-to

 

That's correct Victor. A bit less than we were sailing with before we hove to, because the winds were picking up.  Leave the jib sheeted in and tack without changing jib sheets (backwind the jib) then turn the helm hard upwind and tie it off there.  Then go aft and bring the Mizzen traveler up at least half way to windward. You may have to experiment with how much jib and Mizzen you have out, and how much the Mizzen traveler needs to be brought upwind.  I never could make Kristy slide directly downwind with theain out even a little...she always sailed forward out of the slick at 1-2 kts.

Kent

Kristy

SM 243

 

On Jun 18, 2020 4:01 PM, VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:

Hello Ken and Iris.

I am very interested in the heave to operation. I understand from your mail that you only used a bit of jib, a third of the mizzen and the main down. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance.

Victor 

SM #314 Alendoy

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 

 




Re: Heave-to

karkauai
 

Good advice, Mark,
I forgot Todo that and have to replace that sheet now.
Kent

On Jun 19, 2020 6:58 PM, Mark Erdos <mcerdos@...> wrote:

Kent and Iris,

 

Great info!

I would add, using chafing protection is a must. I have a length of fire-hose that I made three ply. I cut it lengthwise so I can position the hose over the forward main halyard to protect the jib sheet from chafing on the wire.

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of karkauai via groups.io
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2020 6:46 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heave-to

 

Hi Paul,

Every boat is going to be a little different depending on load distribution (center of lateral resistance) and even sail shape (center if effort). That's what works on Kristy and should be a pretty good place to start with most Amel SuperMaramus. I haven't tried it on a SN or A54.

 

I generally start with the sails furled as if I were sailing in the maximum wind I expect.  I recommend trying it in 15-20 kts until you know how your boat will react so you don't have to make too many adjustments in big breaking seas. 

 

Where ever you start, if you are pointing too high, try adding a bit of jib or reducing the amount of Mizzen. If you are falling off, reduce jib and/or let more Mizzen out. Once you are between 80 & 90 deg off the wind, if you are still sailing out if the slick, bring the Mizzen traveler upwind some more and)or sheet the Genoa in a bit.  You'll probably have to fall off and jibe to make changes in very high winds, then heave-to again.

 

If you are sailing short-handed and just need some rest, or a hot meal, or need to wait for sunrise before entering an unknown harbor, this calms everything down dramatically. I don't like to bash tacking upwind in steep seas, just don't make enough headway to be worth the wear and tear, so if I expect the wind to shift in a day or two, I heave-to and sail again when it's not so hard on the boat and crew.

 

I haven't hove-to in anything bigger than 12-15' seas, but I think it should be a pretty good technique in up to 60kts)20ft seas. After that running with a warp or drogue may be a better approach.

 

Have fun with it, l bet you'll find that you use it more often than you anticipate.

Kent and Iris

Kristy

SM 243

 

On Jun 19, 2020 9:08 AM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Kent,

 

That is an excellent explanation, and one presumably specific to Amel ketches?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of karkauai via groups.io
Sent: 19 June 2020 00:33
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Heave-to

 

That's correct Victor. A bit less than we were sailing with before we hove to, because the winds were picking up.  Leave the jib sheeted in and tack without changing jib sheets (backwind the jib) then turn the helm hard upwind and tie it off there.  Then go aft and bring the Mizzen traveler up at least half way to windward. You may have to experiment with how much jib and Mizzen you have out, and how much the Mizzen traveler needs to be brought upwind.  I never could make Kristy slide directly downwind with theain out even a little...she always sailed forward out of the slick at 1-2 kts.

Kent

Kristy

SM 243

 

On Jun 18, 2020 4:01 PM, VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:

Hello Ken and Iris.

I am very interested in the heave to operation. I understand from your mail that you only used a bit of jib, a third of the mizzen and the main down. Is this correct?

Thank you in advance.

Victor 

SM #314 Alendoy

 


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98

 



Re: Mizzen furler

karkauai
 

Hi Pat. That's just what I did.

Iris and I are sailing up to Maine July-Sept, will holler when we get back.

Hi to Diane,
Kent

On Jun 20, 2020 2:09 PM, "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:
Kent, It occurred to me that now that I have removed the shaft, that it could unscrew itself with enough friction between the housing and shaft ,maybe a small drop of loctite before reassembling would have been a good idea. I just reinstalled it yesterday,I may take it back out and do that. 
If you and Iris want to go for a day sail ,sail up to the Sassafras and drop a hook .
Take Care,
Pat
Shenanigans #123


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Ian,
I have hull #SM243 and Pat's description is exactly where the problem was on my furler.  Unfortunately, in addition, the housing for the shaft that holds the winch handle came unscrewed a bit from the gear box, allowing the gears to barely mesh.  A couple teeth sheared off and I had to have a new shaft machined in Antigua. 
Kent and Iris
Kristy

On Jun 18, 2020 9:05 AM, "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:
I had a couple of problems with my mizzen furler, and I thought I would pass along what I found. My main problem, was that the swivel that the sail attaches to and is hoisted to the top of the mast,would only rotate a little less than 360 degrees and then get stuck. I first flushed it out ,sprayed gunk, a degreaser in it, flushed more ,it did not help. Inside the interior of the furler there are two circlips that hold a approx. 5/16" x 1/2" plastic plug in place , that plugs the hole from which the ball bearings can be removed .After I removed the plug and took the ball bearings out ,I found the bearings in good shape and reinserted them. I found that without the plug the furler spun freely. Apparently the plug was entering the path of the bearings,stopping the bearings from turning. I turned the plug around and reassembled it and now the furler spins freely.

My second problem was that the gearbox was difficult to turn with the winch handle ,it turned ,but with more effort than it should take. Now I know one would assume the problem lies within the gearbox ,and I know owners have removed the bottom of the gearbox with difficulty and have even damaged the cover in the process. Here is what I found. First the interior of the gearbox can be accessed by simply unscrewing the aluminum housing that surrounds the stainless shaft in which you insert the winch handle. I put the gearbox in a vise and the shaft unscrewed easily with a monkey wrench turning the shaft This gives you plenty access to clean and inspect the gears . My gears turned freely without the shaft. The problem (friction ) was inside the shaft itself . I would have liked to remove the stainless shaft from the housing for a good cleaning ,but it did not come apart easily and not wanting to damage it ,I just sprayed gunk between the shaft and the housing ,worked it back and forth ,sprayed more ,work it more and it freed up nicely . I rinsed it out with water ,put a few drops of machine oil in,  it and now rotates easily. So if the gearbox is stiff ,first unscrew the shaft to inspect the gearbox and see if the shaft itself may be your problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans



Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Kent, It occurred to me that now that I have removed the shaft, that it could unscrew itself with enough friction between the housing and shaft ,maybe a small drop of loctite before reassembling would have been a good idea. I just reinstalled it yesterday,I may take it back out and do that. 
If you and Iris want to go for a day sail ,sail up to the Sassafras and drop a hook .
Take Care,
Pat
Shenanigans #123


-----Original Message-----
From: karkauai via groups.io <karkauai@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Sat, Jun 20, 2020 1:11 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Ian,
I have hull #SM243 and Pat's description is exactly where the problem was on my furler.  Unfortunately, in addition, the housing for the shaft that holds the winch handle came unscrewed a bit from the gear box, allowing the gears to barely mesh.  A couple teeth sheared off and I had to have a new shaft machined in Antigua. 
Kent and Iris
Kristy

On Jun 18, 2020 9:05 AM, "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:
I had a couple of problems with my mizzen furler, and I thought I would pass along what I found. My main problem, was that the swivel that the sail attaches to and is hoisted to the top of the mast,would only rotate a little less than 360 degrees and then get stuck. I first flushed it out ,sprayed gunk, a degreaser in it, flushed more ,it did not help. Inside the interior of the furler there are two circlips that hold a approx. 5/16" x 1/2" plastic plug in place , that plugs the hole from which the ball bearings can be removed .After I removed the plug and took the ball bearings out ,I found the bearings in good shape and reinserted them. I found that without the plug the furler spun freely. Apparently the plug was entering the path of the bearings,stopping the bearings from turning. I turned the plug around and reassembled it and now the furler spins freely.

My second problem was that the gearbox was difficult to turn with the winch handle ,it turned ,but with more effort than it should take. Now I know one would assume the problem lies within the gearbox ,and I know owners have removed the bottom of the gearbox with difficulty and have even damaged the cover in the process. Here is what I found. First the interior of the gearbox can be accessed by simply unscrewing the aluminum housing that surrounds the stainless shaft in which you insert the winch handle. I put the gearbox in a vise and the shaft unscrewed easily with a monkey wrench turning the shaft This gives you plenty access to clean and inspect the gears . My gears turned freely without the shaft. The problem (friction ) was inside the shaft itself . I would have liked to remove the stainless shaft from the housing for a good cleaning ,but it did not come apart easily and not wanting to damage it ,I just sprayed gunk between the shaft and the housing ,worked it back and forth ,sprayed more ,work it more and it freed up nicely . I rinsed it out with water ,put a few drops of machine oil in,  it and now rotates easily. So if the gearbox is stiff ,first unscrew the shaft to inspect the gearbox and see if the shaft itself may be your problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Mizzen furler

karkauai
 

Ian,
I have hull #SM243 and Pat's description is exactly where the problem was on my furler.  Unfortunately, in addition, the housing for the shaft that holds the winch handle came unscrewed a bit from the gear box, allowing the gears to barely mesh.  A couple teeth sheared off and I had to have a new shaft machined in Antigua. 
Kent and Iris
Kristy

On Jun 18, 2020 9:05 AM, "Patrick McAneny via groups.io" <sailw32@...> wrote:
I had a couple of problems with my mizzen furler, and I thought I would pass along what I found. My main problem, was that the swivel that the sail attaches to and is hoisted to the top of the mast,would only rotate a little less than 360 degrees and then get stuck. I first flushed it out ,sprayed gunk, a degreaser in it, flushed more ,it did not help. Inside the interior of the furler there are two circlips that hold a approx. 5/16" x 1/2" plastic plug in place , that plugs the hole from which the ball bearings can be removed .After I removed the plug and took the ball bearings out ,I found the bearings in good shape and reinserted them. I found that without the plug the furler spun freely. Apparently the plug was entering the path of the bearings,stopping the bearings from turning. I turned the plug around and reassembled it and now the furler spins freely.

My second problem was that the gearbox was difficult to turn with the winch handle ,it turned ,but with more effort than it should take. Now I know one would assume the problem lies within the gearbox ,and I know owners have removed the bottom of the gearbox with difficulty and have even damaged the cover in the process. Here is what I found. First the interior of the gearbox can be accessed by simply unscrewing the aluminum housing that surrounds the stainless shaft in which you insert the winch handle. I put the gearbox in a vise and the shaft unscrewed easily with a monkey wrench turning the shaft This gives you plenty access to clean and inspect the gears . My gears turned freely without the shaft. The problem (friction ) was inside the shaft itself . I would have liked to remove the stainless shaft from the housing for a good cleaning ,but it did not come apart easily and not wanting to damage it ,I just sprayed gunk between the shaft and the housing ,worked it back and forth ,sprayed more ,work it more and it freed up nicely . I rinsed it out with water ,put a few drops of machine oil in,  it and now rotates easily. So if the gearbox is stiff ,first unscrew the shaft to inspect the gearbox and see if the shaft itself may be your problem.
Hope this helps,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Book shelves

ianjenkins1946 <ianjudyjenkins@hotmail.com>
 

Hi Joerg, 
On our SM we have wooden bars held in place with Velcro . The Velcro can’t be seen . 
Haven’t lost a book in 20 years 
Ian and Judy , Pen Azen , SM 302 , Kilada , Greece 


On 20 Jun 2020, at 15:45, Joerg Esdorn via groups.io <jhe1313@...> wrote:

On my A55, I have a number of book shelves which have substantial fiddles which prevent books from falling out under most conditions.  In heavy air, however, the fiddles are not quite high enough and contents of the shelves on the windward side sometimes end up on the floor to leeward.  I‘ve asked the boatyard where Kincsem is resting this year to install wooden bars across the shelves and I‘m now looking for the best way to have these bars be removable without installing ugly „U“ shaped pieces on the sides into which the bars slide.  Anyone have „hidden“ attachments for such bars on their boat?  Many thanks in advance for any ideas!

Joerg Esdorn
A55 Kincsem
On the hard in Vigo, Spain