Date   

Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

James Alton
 

Paul,

   Most of the vacuum gauges that I have seen used on filter installations show a yellow band starting at around - 6 psi but that is not engine specific, just general.  In my experience, with clean filters the drop should be almost nothing with the size engines we have and the correspondingly relatively  small fuel flow.  I have replaced a number of these vacuum gauges that were not functioning properly so I don’t actually have much faith in them.  I do think that you are likely on the right path and are getting very good advice here.  An air leak or a restrictive filter can certainly cause the symptoms that you are describing but there are other possibilities, a plugged fuel pick up tube, bad injection pump etc. .  If changing the filter and trying to fix the air leak does not help, consider bypassing as much of the fuel system as you can to see if that corrects the problem to narrow things down.  Running the engine from a jug and a short fuel line connected to the fuel pump can sometimes help reveal the true problem and to determine if the problem is with the engine or the fuel system.  

Best of luck to you.

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jun 8, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Could I ask for some clarification on the use of the Racor filter gauge. My understanding is that this is a vacuum gauge and the higher the reading the more fuel blockage there is. Reading below runs counter to this interpretation. So how does one read this gauge and at what reading should I be concerned enough to swap filters?
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael & Robyn
Sent: 08 June 2020 22:45
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits
 
Thank y'all for the suggestions and the link.
This morning I rechecked the probe I took from the engine fuel filter. It was sitting overnight in a small glass jar with a sealed lid.
In daylight I was able to spot a ~3mm diameter water bubble at the bottom of the jar.
I took probes from both Razor filters. The unused one was clean and no water. The other one had a bit of dirt and added a few more very small water bubbles to my jar.

Bill,
you asked why I didn't switch to the other Razor filter.
First the filter didn't look dirty from outside shining a flash light against it. Second the pressure gauge was showing no significant low pressure. 
And in case of dirt in the fuel I wanted to keep the second filter as my last reserve for a docking under engine maneuver.

We ran the Onan Gen-set last night again for an hour.
Today I did bleed the fuel with the manual pump again. Cleaned the air intake filter, which did not really show significant dirt.

I started the engine and it would run for a few seconds without load except the alternator. I tried several times. It would start at the second attempt and run for 10 to 20s and then drop RPMs. Putting the throttle forward made the engine speed up. But it would not last and die. One could hear that it was running on one or two cylinders.
I ran the Gen again for an hour to keep batteries charged. Then a few more attempts. When the RPMs where dropping I put throttle forward.
Finally I succeeded trying to keep it at 1500 RPMs. After 10 to 15 min it sometimes speed up to 1625 ... 1650 RPMs.
After 30 min it run constant at 1650 with the initial throttle setting that gave 1500 RPMs. One could occasionally hear a missed ignition. After a total of 45 min the engine ran fine still at 1650 RPM. Since batteries where charged to 90% I reduced to idle for a few min and the engine ran smooth at 850 RPM until I shut off.
We will see how it behaves tomorrow.

I observed a small puddle of diesel fuel at the rim of the manual pump which I had hit by accident diving for probing the razor filters. 
My current assumption is that I have a small air leak in the fuel lines, maybe the manual pump itself. Or the air was introduced when the mechanic checked the razor filters.

To Giovannis point, 
I had pushed the manual prime pump to help the engine start.

Will send an update tomorrow how it went.

Thank you and kind regards

-- 
Michael & Robyn 

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
still anchored south of FIsherman's Island near Cape Charles entrance to Chesapeake Bay


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Craig Briggs
 

Hi MIke,
Although ours is an SN, without the notorious SM corroding copper sleeve, I plumbed my aftermarket holding tanks with 1 1/2" PVC pipe 20 years ago. Annual or so doses of HCl keep the interior mineral build up at bay and rubber flexible couplings at the deck and through hull fitting eliminate vibration issues with the rigid glued pipe structure. Imho, far superior than even the most expensive hose that sewage permeates with smells after a few years. PVC never permeates odors (well, at least for the last 20 years).
Good luck with your project.
Craig 


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

karkauai
 

Hi Michael & Robyn,
This won't be new info, but will reinforce Bill's thoughts.
I've had similar problems twice in the last 11 years if ownership.  The first time was very much like your problem. It turned out to be a very small leak in the fuel line that never dripped fuel, but sucked air when rpm got over 2K. After I ran out of ideas, a mechanic bled the injector connections and saw a few bubbles. It took going through the entire fuel system to find the problem. I wonder now if I could have pressurized the system and found a leak.
The second time the Yanmar only died when we were motoring and running the Onan to use the microwave.  The Racor fuel filters inspection bowls looked clean and free of water. I opened the second Racor and voila, problem solved. I cut the offending Racor open when we got to port, and found the filter material disintegrating. Before that I changed the Racors only every few years. Now the get changed at least every year and before a passage.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jun 8, 2020 11:15 AM, Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
Razor fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate Razor filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance



SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Mike Ondra
 

From ALETES, SM#240 1999 with Jabsco manual pump: Head backflow and Holding Tanks

We have persistently had issues with holding tank backflow to the toilet requiring frequent cleaning or replacement of the joker valve. Additional measures have included the addition of a Jabsco check valve as well as the installation of the “locking” version of the Jabsco manual pump. Three layers of defense could not defeat the backflow problem, apparently due to buildup of crystals on all the backflow preventive devices.  

Also, we have experienced leakage at the connections of the riser hoses (both inlet and outlet) where they connect to the tank. As others have noted, that connection on some models is a copper sleeve that is glassed into the tank, and that copper corrodes over time developing pin-holes and associated leaks. Nasty. Band-aid fixes over the years usually held for a time, but the corrosion keeps on working and leaks reappear.

During our latest effort at cleaning and replacing the valves we had a surprise. As anyone who has removed the riser pipe that connects the pump to the tank knows, the contents of the entire riser drain out. Hence it is prudent to flush with a significant volume of water prior to attempting the disconnect. By doing so, the contents that spill into the shower pan are “mostly” clean water.  In this last removal, however, the contents of the ENTIRE holding tank spilled into the shower pan (no further description required). So now we are apparently dealing with a third holding tank issue. Time for a major effort in holding tank repair.

The internal workings of the holding tank have always been a bit of mystery as there is no access port and the 3 openings to the tank are rather small, basically 1.5”. We have not seen shop drawings or photos of the interior of the tank, but from BB postings, our understanding has been that from the copper sleeve penetrating the fiberglass there is a riser tube in the tank that delivers the waste and spills somewhere near the top of the tank. So before developing a plan of attack for repairs, we removed the deck plate to get slightly larger access to the tank to see what was inside and perhaps determine the problem. Here are the long-awaited photos of the inside of the tank looking down from the deck plate. 

    

So as one can see, the copper sleeve also corroded within the tank and ultimately the riser extension within the tank separated from it. Wastes were being pumped into the BOTTOM of the tank, and any disconnection of the riser hose in the inboard side would drain any remaining contents within the tank above the drain sump. One curiosity is why the riser within the tank would loop up and then back down so that the discharge point is low in the tank. We couldn’t see but presume there is no vacuum breaker at the top of the loop, so as soon as the contents level would be above the discharge end of the loop, the riser would not drain itself, and in fact become a siphon for backflow. Anyway, since it seemed attached to the tank wall and/or top and we could not get into the tank to disconnect, we could not remove it and it was abandoned in place. NOTE TO OTHERS who have experienced the corrosion of the copper sleeve below the tank - this failure within the tank may be in your future as well.

Mark Erdos on May 3, 2017 posted an excellent description of his fix for the inboard portion of the copper pipe corrosion while leaving the upper copper pipe and its connection within the tank in place. This was not an option for us due to the separation above. So, following his procedure but completely removing the copper, our solution was a continuous piece of sanitary hose from check-valve near the pump all the way to the top of the holding tank, no connections to leak.

    

We reamed out the hole in the fiberglass with rotary rasp so the tubing would slip through. Flared the top of the hole a bit to receive epoxy resin that would seal around the tubing and ooze down between the tube and the fiberglass. Putty was placed around the internal end of the joint to prevent the epoxy from running out. The resin was delivered to the flared opening at the top of the tube/fiberglass joint by pouring it down a PVC pipe/straw.

   

After curing we filled the tank with clean water to test for leaks. There seemed to be none. However, overnight there was evidence of a slight leak. We suspect there was insuffient gap between the tube and the fiberglass for the somewhat viscous resin to fully flow and fill. Otherwise, this solution seems good. So now the plan is to remove the tube, ream out the fiberglass a bit more to achieve, say, a 2mm gap between them and once again fill with resin.

Any comments, experiences, words of wisdom appreciated as we plan for this FINAL fix.

Mike Ondra, ALETES SM#240, Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 

 

 

 


SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak

Mike Ondra
 


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown
 

Could I ask for some clarification on the use of the Racor filter gauge. My understanding is that this is a vacuum gauge and the higher the reading the more fuel blockage there is. Reading below runs counter to this interpretation. So how does one read this gauge and at what reading should I be concerned enough to swap filters?

 

Cheers,

Paul

S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael & Robyn
Sent: 08 June 2020 22:45
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

 

Thank y'all for the suggestions and the link.
This morning I rechecked the probe I took from the engine fuel filter. It was sitting overnight in a small glass jar with a sealed lid.
In daylight I was able to spot a ~3mm diameter water bubble at the bottom of the jar.
I took probes from both Razor filters. The unused one was clean and no water. The other one had a bit of dirt and added a few more very small water bubbles to my jar.

Bill,
you asked why I didn't switch to the other Razor filter.
First the filter didn't look dirty from outside shining a flash light against it. Second the pressure gauge was showing no significant low pressure.
And in case of dirt in the fuel I wanted to keep the second filter as my last reserve for a docking under engine maneuver.

We ran the Onan Gen-set last night again for an hour.
Today I did bleed the fuel with the manual pump again. Cleaned the air intake filter, which did not really show significant dirt.

I started the engine and it would run for a few seconds without load except the alternator. I tried several times. It would start at the second attempt and run for 10 to 20s and then drop RPMs. Putting the throttle forward made the engine speed up. But it would not last and die. One could hear that it was running on one or two cylinders.
I ran the Gen again for an hour to keep batteries charged. Then a few more attempts. When the RPMs where dropping I put throttle forward.
Finally I succeeded trying to keep it at 1500 RPMs. After 10 to 15 min it sometimes speed up to 1625 ... 1650 RPMs.
After 30 min it run constant at 1650 with the initial throttle setting that gave 1500 RPMs. One could occasionally hear a missed ignition. After a total of 45 min the engine ran fine still at 1650 RPM. Since batteries where charged to 90% I reduced to idle for a few min and the engine ran smooth at 850 RPM until I shut off.
We will see how it behaves tomorrow.

I observed a small puddle of diesel fuel at the rim of the manual pump which I had hit by accident diving for probing the razor filters.
My current assumption is that I have a small air leak in the fuel lines, maybe the manual pump itself. Or the air was introduced when the mechanic checked the razor filters.

To Giovannis point,
I had pushed the manual prime pump to help the engine start.

Will send an update tomorrow how it went.

Thank you and kind regards

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
still anchored south of FIsherman's Island near Cape Charles entrance to Chesapeake Bay


--
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: How To Replace Aft Head Sink Faucet

Thomas Kleman
 

I changed the fawcets fore and aft  (and sink) by ordering German faucets from a Bauhaus. Kind of a German Home Depot. Plumbing connections  (I'ms pretty sure) are standard across Europe.


Tom and Kirstin
SM2K 422


Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Jamie Wendell
 

Hello Scott (and others), sorry to keep adding to this original thread but I thought I might share my experience converting to Lithium and Victron Multiplus inverters. I know there have been many discussions round this topic, so hopefully Amelians out there who are considering this plunge will be able to do it based on others (and my own) successes and mistakes.

On my 54, I installed 12 Battle Born 24V batteries to replace my Fireflys. I installed the Fireflys after my previous AGMs exploded. Unfortunately, the Fireflys essentially gave up after about 3 or so years. I just could not keep the voltage up, and ended up with a lot of low-voltage problems, most likely because of the fact that you have to series 2 of them and then parallel the 6 pairs to get 24 volts. I suspect their early demise was because I did not balance the series pairs.

With the new Battle Borns at 24V each, the series issue is gone and the batteries consistently hold more than 26 volts under any conceivable load state. The new batteries are much lighter than the AGMs, which is a bit of a problem, as now I have a slight list to port - not too noticeable really but still not ideal. Anyway, the install went very well and I am happy the voltage never drops now even as you discharge to more than 50%. With the AGMs, my Maretron alarms would wake me up in the middle of the night until I started the generator to get the voltage back over 24 volts. The lithiums also accept full current from my chargers right up until they get to 100% (I can now charge with 70 x 2 or 140 amps). Again with the AGMS and my original Dolphin 100A and 30A chargers, the current acceptance would ramp down big time after the batteries reached about 80% charge.

I also installed dual Victron Multiplus Inverter/Chargers (3-kVA each), eliminating both Dolphin chargers. I use 1 of them as a battery-charger "only" to avoid having to run new cables to the batteries - if I used the inverter function, I would have needed to run new monster DC cables. As installed, I was able to use the original Dolphin cables for the charger-only Multiplus. The second Multiplus replaced a similar Victron inverter-only unit I installed a few years ago. Since I already had run fat cables for the inverter (yes, as Scott noted, you have to bust out the epoxy seal between the engine room and battery compartment - I plan to reseal shortly once I have all systems proven), I was able to use it as an inverter and charger as designed. That gives me 3000 VA for AC loads, which seems to be just right for my needs. I split the AC panel in half, feeding one side with "normal" shore/generator power, and the other side with either inverter feed or shore/gen power. I used a simple Blue Sea selector switch to do that. I also have essentially a "spare" 3-kVA inverter if I need it in the future. By the way, I retained the Amel systems right up to the main AC breaker at the AC panel. I ruled out feeding shore power through an inverter/charger (which is common approach), as that would preclude the ability to run appliances at 50 Hz while simultaneously using 60-Hz shore power in the US.

The only issue I see now with the lithiums and charging is that the batteries tend to heat up a bit with a really large DC current. I throttled back one of the chargers a bit (using the Victron Connect system) to allow more "gentle" charging. I use the reduced-output Multiplus when I just want to do a slow charge, and both for fast charging. Changing the DC output is quick and easy, although I wish Victron would allow me to do it via bluetooth on my PC. Right now they only support phones and iPads.

The inverter capable "bus" side of the AC panel allows me to run the fore or aft air conditioning, the dishwasher, washer, dryer, microwave, and AC outlets without shore power OR generator - although not all at once!! I have tested all of these functions and found one issue - the AC power for the Climma relay box (which powers the AC pump) was fed from the non-inverter-capable side. After some head-scratching I decided to move the Climma panel feed from the other "bus" to the inverter-capable side. Until I relocated the feeder, the aft/foreward AC units never turned on the pump, as it was fed from the "normal" power side. Those who might use a quattro or larger inverter might not have this problem if you decide to feed ALL AC breakers from an inverter.

I still need to replace the Mastervolt alternator regulator, and I have one on order right now. The new regulator supports lithiums, even though some modifications may be needed to shut down the regulator when the batteries are full. I may need to do that manually, as the Battle Borns do not talk to the Victron BMS. That is a project I will attack shortly.

Although not as "exotic" as Scott's system, I am delighted with the new setup as it works for my needs, and would be happy to share what I did in more detail if anyone is interested.

Thanks,
Jamie
Phantom, A54 #44


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

Michael & Robyn
 
Edited

Thank y'all for the suggestions and the link.
This morning I rechecked the probe I took from the engine fuel filter. It was sitting overnight in a small glass jar with a sealed lid.
In daylight I was able to spot a ~3mm diameter water bubble at the bottom of the jar.
I took probes from both RACOR filters. The unused one was clean and no water. The other one had a bit of dirt and added a few more very small water bubbles to my jar.

Bill,
you asked why I didn't switch to the other RACOR filter.
First the filter didn't look dirty from outside shining a flash light against it. Second the pressure gauge was showing no significant low pressure.
And in case of dirt in the fuel I wanted to keep the second filter as my last reserve for a docking under engine maneuver.

We ran the Onan Gen-set last night again for an hour.
Today I did bleed the fuel with the manual pump again. Cleaned the air intake filter, which did not really show significant dirt.

I started the engine and it would run for a few seconds without load except the alternator. I tried several times. It would start at the second attempt and run for 10 to 20s and then drop RPMs. Putting the throttle forward made the engine speed up. But it would not last and die. One could hear that it was running on one or two cylinders.
I ran the Gen again for an hour to keep batteries charged. Then a few more attempts. When the RPMs where dropping I put throttle forward.
Finally I succeeded trying to keep it at 1500 RPMs. After 10 to 15 min it sometimes speed up to 1625 ... 1650 RPMs.
After 30 min it run constant at 1650 with the initial throttle setting that gave 1500 RPMs. One could occasionally hear a missed ignition. After a total of 45 min the engine ran fine still at 1650 RPM. Since batteries where charged to 90% I reduced to idle for a few min and the engine ran smooth at 850 RPM until I shut off.
We will see how it behaves tomorrow.

I observed a small puddle of diesel fuel at the rim of the manual pump which I had hit by accident diving for probing the RACOR filters.
My current assumption is that I have a small air leak in the fuel lines, maybe the manual pump itself. Or the air was introduced when the mechanic checked the RACOR filters.

To Giovannis point,
I had pushed the manual prime pump to help the engine start.

Will send an update tomorrow how it went.

Thank you and kind regards

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
still anchored south of FIsherman's Island near Cape Charles entrance to Chesapeake Bay


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

 

Giani,

That is an excellent idea.
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 1:21 PM Giovanni TESTA <giovannitesta53@...> wrote:
Michael,
You may test the fuel system flow if you press the manual pump on engine filter while running down. If the rpm is increasing again, replace first all your filters.
Giovanni Testa
Sv Eutikia SM2K 428

Il Lun 8 Giu 2020, 17:16 Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> ha scritto:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
Razor fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate Razor filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

Giovanni TESTA
 

Michael,
You may test the fuel system flow if you press the manual pump on engine filter while running down. If the rpm is increasing again, replace first all your filters.
Giovanni Testa
Sv Eutikia SM2K 428

Il Lun 8 Giu 2020, 17:16 Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> ha scritto:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
Razor fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate Razor filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance


Re: cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

Porter McRoberts
 

I don’t recall that being a requirement. We got it in panama before heading to FP. They took our $$!  I’ll look into it. Hopefully we’ll be in need of it again in the future!!!!!

Porter 
A54-152. 

Excuse the errors.  
Sent from my IPhone 
Www.fouribis.net

On Jun 8, 2020, at 2:06 PM, Teun BAAS <teun@...> wrote:



Mark,

 

I buy usually for a year: VOYAGER plan – paid January 21, 2020 USD913 per year.

 

Not aware of a requirement of having to return to USA.

 

Going to their website just now and this is what I get:

 

QUOTE

 

DAN has temporarily suspended sales of travel insurance plans. Neither Annual Travel nor Per-Trip plans are available for purchase at this time. We look forward to introducing new DAN travel insurance plans in the near future.

 

If you need to make changes to or have questions about an existing policy, please contact DAN Member Services at +1 (800) 446-2671, Option 3.

 

 

UNQUOTE

 

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck in PHOENIX AZ USA

AMELIT is on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 8, 2020 10:53:19

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Erdos via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 10:50
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

Porter, when we looked into DAN, it was only for 6 months at a time an then the person had to return to the USA. Has that changed?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 2:47 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

He just died. I read on FB. That’s a real shame. 

 

DAN diver insurance is excellent. They have two forms. Repatriation insurance and regular health insurance for travelers.  

Porter McRoberts 

A54-152

 

On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

That's one of my big worries when we start cruising next year, medical coverage that's affordable. Rest of world policies seem to be the only affordable options. I see the cigna geo explorer plans, is that what people use?


Re: cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

Mark Erdos
 

Billy,

 

There are a lot of good options for healthcare outside of the USA. We pay as we go for minor stuff and have a catastrophic policy for anything really bad. This can run about US$1,500 per year with a $10,000 deductable. Healthcare outside of the USA is very affordable and in many cases just as good or better than the USA. We have had no issues finding English speaking doctors.

 

Learn to shop outside of the USA for insurance coverage. There are reputable companies such as Aetna (UK) among many others who offer polices for world-wide healthcare insurance. They exclude the USA because to the idiotic system.

 

As with most insurance, you need to be aware of scams. A quick Google search of Azimuth Risk Solutions reveals they are scammers. Go with a recognized company and do your homework – all will be okay.

 

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Billy Newport
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 2:15 AM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

That's one of my big worries when we start cruising next year, medical coverage that's affordable. Rest of world policies seem to be the only affordable options. I see the cigna geo explorer plans, is that what people use?


Re: cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

Teun BAAS
 

Mark,

 

I buy usually for a year: VOYAGER plan – paid January 21, 2020 USD913 per year.

 

Not aware of a requirement of having to return to USA.

 

Going to their website just now and this is what I get:

 

QUOTE

 

DAN has temporarily suspended sales of travel insurance plans. Neither Annual Travel nor Per-Trip plans are available for purchase at this time. We look forward to introducing new DAN travel insurance plans in the near future.

 

If you need to make changes to or have questions about an existing policy, please contact DAN Member Services at +1 (800) 446-2671, Option 3.

 

 

UNQUOTE

 

 

Best Regards Teun

SV AMELIT  A54  #128

 

I am stuck in PHOENIX AZ USA

AMELIT is on the hard in COOMERA (near BRISBANE) QLD AUSTRALIA

June 8, 2020 10:53:19

 

USA cell: +1 832 477 8842

AUSTRALIA cell: +61 5951 8909

 

You can follow AMELIT via this link: https://forecast.predictwind.com/tracking/display/AMELIT

 

 

 

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Erdos via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 10:50
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

Porter, when we looked into DAN, it was only for 6 months at a time an then the person had to return to the USA. Has that changed?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 2:47 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

He just died. I read on FB. That’s a real shame. 

 

DAN diver insurance is excellent. They have two forms. Repatriation insurance and regular health insurance for travelers.  

Porter McRoberts 

A54-152

 

On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

That's one of my big worries when we start cruising next year, medical coverage that's affordable. Rest of world policies seem to be the only affordable options. I see the cigna geo explorer plans, is that what people use?


Re: cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

Mark Erdos
 

Porter, when we looked into DAN, it was only for 6 months at a time an then the person had to return to the USA. Has that changed?

 

 

With best regards,

 

Mark

 

Skipper

Sailing Vessel - Cream Puff - SM2K - #275

Currently cruising - Tahiti, French Polynesia

www.creampuff.us

 

From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io [mailto:main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io] On Behalf Of Porter McRoberts via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 2:47 AM
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] cruisers of "Brick House" need help in Capetown

 

He just died. I read on FB. That’s a real shame. 

 

DAN diver insurance is excellent. They have two forms. Repatriation insurance and regular health insurance for travelers.  

Porter McRoberts 

A54-152



On Jun 8, 2020, at 8:14 AM, Billy Newport <billy@...> wrote:

That's one of my big worries when we start cruising next year, medical coverage that's affordable. Rest of world policies seem to be the only affordable options. I see the cigna geo explorer plans, is that what people use?


Re: Main Sail Outhaul and Furling Gearbox Bonfiglioli VF44P1-70 P63 B14 B3

Bill Shaproski
 

Thanks for the info.  I ordered 2 new units from Drivetech 5 years ago and they had the fins intact and did not require any additional rework other than protective coatings.   I also just ordered one from Radwell in Willingboro NJ which looks like the same ones from Drivetech, but I don't get to the boat until Friday to do a fit check.  But I'm confident it's the same.  I also just ordered one from Ameritec in South Carolina and they sent a knockoff from China which was completely wrong and took hours of back and forth emails to determine it was wrong.  Now I'm trying to get them to give a refund.
I now have one being sent from a small village in the south of Holland which is used.  It should arrive by Thursday and I leave for Fort Lauderdale on Friday.  I'll let you know what I find out.  
I'll put together an email with the contact info for all the various outfits I have that sell this part.  I have two others to provide.  Other cruisers may find it helpful.
My advice is to always have two available as spares if one plans to be doing any offshore sailing.  BTW  you need to finish the units with two coats of Zinc Chromate primer and two coats of a good enamel.  You might also consider applying alodine prior to the primer.  
Regards
Bill Shaproski

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020, 7:32 AM Craig & Katherine Briggs SN 68 Sangaris Tropic Isle Harbor, FL via groups.io <sangaris=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
Bill,
You might also try Bonfiglioli USA /3541 Hargrave Dr;/ Hebron, KY 41048/ 859.334.3333.  I believe that Mitch at Drivetech simply orders from them.

Do note that Amel modified it a bit by grinding off the cooling fins and drilling a slightly different hole pattern on the mounting plate, which you'll have to do, too. Any chance that is what your maintenance guy was seeing? (Although you did note he said it was not Bonfiglioli brand.) Where in FL is your boat?

Good luck with it.
Craig


Re: How To Replace Aft Head Sink Faucet

Bill Shaproski
 

Thanks much for the tips and photos.  This info is very helpful. Since this job seems to be of interest to not just me. I'll make sure I take lots of photos when I get back to the boat.
Regards
Bill Shaproski 
S/V Pacific Cool

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020, 7:01 AM Linda Melton <lindajmelton@...> wrote:
Bill
I’d bought an extendable tap spanner in preparation for this job. Waste of time. The first photo shows what I thought were screws holding the plate on place. There are two of them, one impossible to reach. And they don’t hold the tap on. It is a threaded plate and screws up onto the tap. Easy job when the sink is detached but impossible in situ.
The second photo shows the tap connectors which are a standard female thread. They have a rubber washer insert to close the joint. I have been unable to find a flexible tap connector with a male 12mm end. They are all 15mm. So I am going to put a compression joint on the end 12mm to 15mm to take a standard flexible fitting.
The sink took some gentle levering to lift of the wooden bar across the front. There was no jointing compound there, just 16 years of  accumulated muck.
Let me know if you find any tips on your work. I have the forward heads to do next!


  Have fun

Ian




Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

 

Michael,

What you are experiencing must be a loss or restriction of fuel.

I am curious why you did not switch to the other Racor filter. The Onan uses half the amount of fuel and uses an electric fuel pump. I believe it is possible that it could have enough fuel while the Yanmar may not. Also, you said that you checked the Yanmar filter. I do not think that visual checks of this filter are possible. 

I will attempt to list all of the possibilities for restricted fuel...maybe some that you have not thought of Order: beginning inside the fuel tank:
  1. There is a screen filter inside the fuel tank that is very difficult to see and remedy. It can get clogged. If your fuel is low enough, you may be able to see it through the inspection port. It is rare for this to be an issue and is probably not the issue
  2. Mechanical fuel valve at the base of the fuel tank. Is it in the correct position? You might try to exercise this valve.
  3. Dual Racor Selection Valve.  Is it in the correct position? You might try to exercise this valve. Note: the pointer opposite the handle indicates the filter selected.
  4. Racor filter. Why not change the filter or switch the valve to the other filter?
  5. Yanmar mounted filter. Change it. Be sure to bleed.
  6. Stop Solenoid on the Fuel injection pump. This is hard to see. Press the stop button to see if it is working. I attached a page out of my book which may help.
  7. Fuel system has air. You may want to do a full bleed, by loosening the fuel lines to the injectors and pumping the manual pump on top of the fuel filter housing.
  8. Faulty fuel injection pump - probably not the issue
  9. Fuel injectors -  probably not the issue
I hope that this helps you.

Hopefully, someone else will add to this if I have left something out.

CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:16 AM Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
Razor fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate Razor filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

Craig Briggs
 

On Mon, Jun 8, 2020 at 10:15 AM, Michael & Robyn wrote:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE
Here's a link to a discussion of, seemingly, the exact same problem / same engine. Perhaps some useful thoughts.
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/yanmar-4jh3-hte-187238.html

Good luck with it.
Craig


YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

Michael & Robyn
 
Edited

YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
RACOR fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate RACOR filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance