Date   

Re: engine hours

Ian Park
 

 

My Santorin has a Perkins Prima 50. It was 19 years old when I bought the boat with 3,900 hours. It now has around 4,600 hrs.

It always starts first turn of the starter motor, never had to use the pre-heaters. The handbook states oil changes at 400 hours, but I generally change between 100 and 200 at the most. I use below 1 litre of oil to top up between services. I am no mechanic but have faith that this engine will still be working well at 10,000 hours.

 

Check the service history and especially the timing belt replacement.

 

Ian

 

Ocean Hobo  SN96

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering system.

Craig Briggs
 


Hi Bill,
With your linear drive giving no play vs the chain drive, it seems the play could be from two sources; cable slack and/or chain slack. On mine it was the chain that needed tensioning.
Cheers, Craig SN#68 Sangaris

---In amelyachtowners@..., <greatketch@...> wrote :

Danny and Bill R,

Thanks for the help Bill, Danny and Olivier.  Exactly what I needed to know.   And yes Olivier, this was once Ann Harsh’s boat.

Our steering system was replaced half way through Harmonie’s second circumnavigation, so it is much newer than the boat herself.

My original autopilot installation was a Autohelm 6000 and an Autohelm 7000.  I quickly learned to love the 6000, but not so much the 7000. Nothing wrong with it, it was just primitive compared to what I am used to.

As part of our overall electronics upgrade, we swapped out the AH7000 for a new, more sophisticated, B&G autopilot which I love even more.  

Frequently, while sailing near to close hauled, I will just tell the  B&G pilot to just hold a constant rudder angle, and let the boat steer herself with the sails.  In this case, the AP computer commands a rudder angle of (for example) 2º port.  Once there, it should stay without further motor activity.  And it does--if I use the lineardrive motor connected to the quadrant.  

If I use the chain drive, it struggles as the rudder flops a tiny bit back and forth with the slack in the cables changing the reported angle.  It keeps trying to adjust, to hold that 2º angle when it should just be locked in place.

Like I said, it’s a tiny movement, but enough to be annoying and uselessly wearing on things.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
On the Hard, Fort Lauderdale, FL



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Craig Briggs
 

Hi Eric,
The upper lip seal is on the input shaft where it goes into the upper gear box. You need to uncouple the engine, slide it back a bit, pop off the coupling and a metal ring protecting the seal. The seal size is 60-90-10.
One could put it on a long term preventive maintenance schedule (maybe 5000 hours?), or, frankly, if you can deal with working on something that is worn out, just wait for oil beginning to show on the "C" drive housing below the input shaft. Perhaps better yet, change it when you change your Vetus coupling internal rubber shocks.
Cheers, Craig SN#68 Sangaris


---In amelyachtowners@..., <kimberlite@...> wrote :

Hi Craig,

Where is the upper lip seal located  on the “C” drive?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

eric freedman
 

Which engine?

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 12:20 PM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

 

 

Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying (looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many before a rebuild or new engine is needed?

 

Thanks for your help

Courtney

Cheers!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Changing companionway veneer.

eric freedman
 

Hola Juan,

Que es tu E-correo.

Gracias

Eric

 

 

From: amelyachtowners@... [mailto:amelyachtowners@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2016 11:45 AM
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Changing companionway veneer.

 

 

Hi  Eric 

I want to change the sliding door  I think it would be very useful the information you have on the hardtop. 

Do I could send the photos? 

Thanks

 

Juan Garcia

SV Tórtola - Mango #56

Cartagena de Indias

 

2016-12-03 22:27 GMT-05:00 James Alton lokiyawl2@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...>:

 

Eric,

 

   I will keep this in mind, thanks.  I have some higher priority projects on the to do list so it might be a while before I get to the slider.

 

Best,

 

James Alton

SV Sueno,  Maramu #220

Arbatax,  Italy

On Dec 3, 2016, at 6:25 PM, 'sailormon' kimberlite@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

 

James,

Please contact me before you do the job there are a few tricks that you must do to get a perfect job.

Fair Winds

Eric

Kimberlite Amel Super Maramu #376

 

 

 

 


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Thanks Beaute,
that is a helpful clarification of how an owner can judge how much water is getting in and decide on the urgency or not. I am probably over cautious, for me, any water is too much.
I agree with you, it is false economy not to change the bearing at a haul out. The cost and inconvenience of a forced haulout is considerable.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 )cean Pearl



From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Hello Danny,

when water comes into the C-drive, oil doesn't go out at the same time, through the same way, you still have your 8 liters of oil. So, unless you see the oil/mayonnaise overflowing from the container in the engine room, there is not much water coming in.

Sometimes the water ingress is so important that oil is overflowing from the container, this is not what I call "a little" water and then, yes, the service must be done at the next opportunity.

There are times when only after 300 hours, you need to replace the bushing and seals because of oil coming into the C-drive. For instance because the boat has been sailing in muddy waters for some time (like if you go sailing in the Amazone river). In that case, it is not a big problem motoring 50 to 100 hours with a little bit of water in the 8 liters of oil.

 Anyway, I'm the first to agree with the AMEL recommendation of doing the service at 800 hours (or even earlier if you have an opportunity to haul-out). But sometimes, on your way (around the world) there is no opportunity to haul-out, and yes the system can go on running with a little water in.

This system is very strong and there are many more failures (input shaft breaking) because of engine misalignment than because of warter ingress causing corrosion to the gears and bearings.

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:32 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi Beaute,
we owners are indebted to you for your experience and your willingness to share it with us, thank you for that. However today I must disagree.. Water in oil diminishes its lubricating ability and will cause greater wear. The more water the worse the lubrication. No one can judge how much water has got in, certainly not the owners who are reading this. Continuing for 50 to 100 hours, with how much water?? Is it continuing to come in? of course, at what rate? At an increasing rate? one would expect so. I remain firmly of the view that we should change the seals and wearing bearing BEFORE a leak starts, and if we get caught out, as soon as possible with the least running possible. As I said in a previous post, we are protecting a very expensive set of gears and bearings.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl




From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Good evening,

there has been about 10 wearing out bushings chrome plated. It's a test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze (they still use the same system on the 55 and 64).
This bushing should be replaced every 800 hours of engine running. Of course, the shaft alternator's hours count like the engine hours. However, some bushings last much more than 800 hours, and I've seen SMs that still had the original bushing after 10 years (I could see the owner wondering was the hell I was talking about when I asked: When did you last replace the bushing and seals?).
AMEL also mentioned a time (2 years) because it's just simple to remember and do it at the haul-out for anti-fouling.
The best way to monitor this system is to watch the oil in the container. When you start seeing mayonnaise or cafe-creme, then you need to plan a haul-out for this service, but the unit can go on running like this for 50 to 100 hours.
In fact, only a very little amount of water can create mayonnaise in this big "mixer-blender" that is this C-drive.
There is almost no air in the 8 liters of oil, so not much corrosion, even with a little bit of water...

I would say that, if you've never done it, and you reach 800 hours, don't try the DIY. You should wait up to 100 or 200 more hours (watching periodically your oil container) until you meet a good mechanic who will meticulously replace the bushing and seals with a good result.

Finally, yes, there is a lip-seal at the shaft input of the upper unit. When it leaks, you see the oil drops...and that's not so bad as water entering the unit.

Bon courage pour la mécanique!

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:24 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
800 hours engine use or 800 hours prop shaft use? With the prop shaft alternator on the Santorin turning all the time perhaps the wear time is shorter? Any views?

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96










Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing and haulout intervals

Beaute Olivier
 

Good evening Bill,

AMEL hasn't got any feed back yet about this test of chrome plated bushings, and the engineering manager, Ludovic, told me he would be interested to know how it goes.
They put some of these bushings on their demo boats, but it's too early for a change (or a leak!!).
Do you know who, among the SM owners, got this "new" bushing?

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 8:02 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 

Olivier,
You said of the chrome plated wear bushing, "... test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze..."
One of the SM owners accidentally was shipped one of these when he ordered parts from SAV. He has since installed it.
Do you happen to know the results of the test, and if so, can you share the results?
And, I agree with you regarding the two year interval for service of the wear bushing and seals. The two year haulout interval makes sense for wear bushing replacement, bow thruster service, and antifouling renewal. Add to that some minor points like lubrication of heads holding tank discharge valves, polishing of topsides, and trimming a few links of chain from the anchor end...all make sense on two year intervals of haulouts.
I think that if I were buying an Amel from an Amel owner, the first question I would ask is when was your last haulout and what did you do when hauled, and how often do you haul. If I did not get the right answer, I would look elsewhere.
Best,
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Dec 6, 2016 2:32 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi Beaute,
we owners are indebted to you for your experience and your willingness to share it with us, thank you for that. However today I must disagree.. Water in oil diminishes its lubricating ability and will cause greater wear. The more water the worse the lubrication. No one can judge how much water has got in, certainly not the owners who are reading this. Continuing for 50 to 100 hours, with how much water?? Is it continuing to come in? of course, at what rate? At an increasing rate? one would expect so. I remain firmly of the view that we should change the seals and wearing bearing BEFORE a leak starts, and if we get caught out, as soon as possible with the least running possible. As I said in a previous post, we are protecting a very expensive set of gears and bearings.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl




From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com>
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Good evening,

there has been about 10 wearing out bushings chrome plated. It's a test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze (they still use the same system on the 55 and 64).
This bushing should be replaced every 800 hours of engine running. Of course, the shaft alternator's hours count like the engine hours. However, some bushings last much more than 800 hours, and I've seen SMs that still had the original bushing after 10 years (I could see the owner wondering was the hell I was talking about when I asked: When did you last replace the bushing and seals?).
AMEL also mentioned a time (2 years) because it's just simple to remember and do it at the haul-out for anti-fouling.
The best way to monitor this system is to watch the oil in the container. When you start seeing mayonnaise or cafe-creme, then you need to plan a haul-out for this service, but the unit can go on running like this for 50 to 100 hours.
In fact, only a very little amount of water can create mayonnaise in this big "mixer-blender" that is this C-drive.
There is almost no air in the 8 liters of oil, so not much corrosion, even with a little bit of water...

I would say that, if you've never done it, and you reach 800 hours, don't try the DIY. You should wait up to 100 or 200 more hours (watching periodically your oil container) until you meet a good mechanic who will meticulously replace the bushing and seals with a good result.

Finally, yes, there is a lip-seal at the shaft input of the upper unit. When it leaks, you see the oil drops...and that's not so bad as water entering the unit.

Bon courage pour la mécanique!

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:24 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups. com> wrote:


 
800 hours engine use or 800 hours prop shaft use? With the prop shaft alternator on the Santorin turning all the time perhaps the wear time is shorter? Any views?

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Beaute Olivier
 

Hello Danny,

when water comes into the C-drive, oil doesn't go out at the same time, through the same way, you still have your 8 liters of oil. So, unless you see the oil/mayonnaise overflowing from the container in the engine room, there is not much water coming in.

Sometimes the water ingress is so important that oil is overflowing from the container, this is not what I call "a little" water and then, yes, the service must be done at the next opportunity.

There are times when only after 300 hours, you need to replace the bushing and seals because of oil coming into the C-drive. For instance because the boat has been sailing in muddy waters for some time (like if you go sailing in the Amazone river). In that case, it is not a big problem motoring 50 to 100 hours with a little bit of water in the 8 liters of oil.

 Anyway, I'm the first to agree with the AMEL recommendation of doing the service at 800 hours (or even earlier if you have an opportunity to haul-out). But sometimes, on your way (around the world) there is no opportunity to haul-out, and yes the system can go on running with a little water in.

This system is very strong and there are many more failures (input shaft breaking) because of engine misalignment than because of warter ingress causing corrosion to the gears and bearings.

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 7:32 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Hi Beaute,
we owners are indebted to you for your experience and your willingness to share it with us, thank you for that. However today I must disagree.. Water in oil diminishes its lubricating ability and will cause greater wear. The more water the worse the lubrication. No one can judge how much water has got in, certainly not the owners who are reading this. Continuing for 50 to 100 hours, with how much water?? Is it continuing to come in? of course, at what rate? At an increasing rate? one would expect so. I remain firmly of the view that we should change the seals and wearing bearing BEFORE a leak starts, and if we get caught out, as soon as possible with the least running possible. As I said in a previous post, we are protecting a very expensive set of gears and bearings.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl




From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..."
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Good evening,

there has been about 10 wearing out bushings chrome plated. It's a test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze (they still use the same system on the 55 and 64).
This bushing should be replaced every 800 hours of engine running. Of course, the shaft alternator's hours count like the engine hours. However, some bushings last much more than 800 hours, and I've seen SMs that still had the original bushing after 10 years (I could see the owner wondering was the hell I was talking about when I asked: When did you last replace the bushing and seals?).
AMEL also mentioned a time (2 years) because it's just simple to remember and do it at the haul-out for anti-fouling.
The best way to monitor this system is to watch the oil in the container. When you start seeing mayonnaise or cafe-creme, then you need to plan a haul-out for this service, but the unit can go on running like this for 50 to 100 hours.
In fact, only a very little amount of water can create mayonnaise in this big "mixer-blender" that is this C-drive.
There is almost no air in the 8 liters of oil, so not much corrosion, even with a little bit of water...

I would say that, if you've never done it, and you reach 800 hours, don't try the DIY. You should wait up to 100 or 200 more hours (watching periodically your oil container) until you meet a good mechanic who will meticulously replace the bushing and seals with a good result.

Finally, yes, there is a lip-seal at the shaft input of the upper unit. When it leaks, you see the oil drops...and that's not so bad as water entering the unit.

Bon courage pour la mécanique!

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:24 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
800 hours engine use or 800 hours prop shaft use? With the prop shaft alternator on the Santorin turning all the time perhaps the wear time is shorter? Any views?

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96








Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing and haulout intervals

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 


Olivier,

You said of the chrome plated wear bushing, "... test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze..."

One of the SM owners accidentally was shipped one of these when he ordered parts from SAV. He has since installed it.

Do you happen to know the results of the test, and if so, can you share the results?

And, I agree with you regarding the two year interval for service of the wear bushing and seals. The two year haulout interval makes sense for wear bushing replacement, bow thruster service, and antifouling renewal. Add to that some minor points like lubrication of heads holding tank discharge valves, polishing of topsides, and trimming a few links of chain from the anchor end...all make sense on two year intervals of haulouts.

I think that if I were buying an Amel from an Amel owner, the first question I would ask is when was your last haulout and what did you do when hauled, and how often do you haul. If I did not get the right answer, I would look elsewhere.

Best,

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Dec 6, 2016 2:32 PM, "Danny and Yvonne SIMMS simms@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi Beaute,
we owners are indebted to you for your experience and your willingness to share it with us, thank you for that. However today I must disagree.. Water in oil diminishes its lubricating ability and will cause greater wear. The more water the worse the lubrication. No one can judge how much water has got in, certainly not the owners who are reading this. Continuing for 50 to 100 hours, with how much water?? Is it continuing to come in? of course, at what rate? At an increasing rate? one would expect so. I remain firmly of the view that we should change the seals and wearing bearing BEFORE a leak starts, and if we get caught out, as soon as possible with the least running possible. As I said in a previous post, we are protecting a very expensive set of gears and bearings.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl




From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
To: "amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Good evening,

there has been about 10 wearing out bushings chrome plated. It's a test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze (they still use the same system on the 55 and 64).
This bushing should be replaced every 800 hours of engine running. Of course, the shaft alternator's hours count like the engine hours. However, some bushings last much more than 800 hours, and I've seen SMs that still had the original bushing after 10 years (I could see the owner wondering was the hell I was talking about when I asked: When did you last replace the bushing and seals?).
AMEL also mentioned a time (2 years) because it's just simple to remember and do it at the haul-out for anti-fouling.
The best way to monitor this system is to watch the oil in the container. When you start seeing mayonnaise or cafe-creme, then you need to plan a haul-out for this service, but the unit can go on running like this for 50 to 100 hours.
In fact, only a very little amount of water can create mayonnaise in this big "mixer-blender" that is this C-drive.
There is almost no air in the 8 liters of oil, so not much corrosion, even with a little bit of water...

I would say that, if you've never done it, and you reach 800 hours, don't try the DIY. You should wait up to 100 or 200 more hours (watching periodically your oil container) until you meet a good mechanic who will meticulously replace the bushing and seals with a good result.

Finally, yes, there is a lip-seal at the shaft input of the upper unit. When it leaks, you see the oil drops...and that's not so bad as water entering the unit.

Bon courage pour la mécanique!

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:24 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


 
800 hours engine use or 800 hours prop shaft use? With the prop shaft alternator on the Santorin turning all the time perhaps the wear time is shorter? Any views?

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks much appreciated 



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Alexandre Uster von Baar uster@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...>
Date: 12/6/16 1:29 PM (GMT-05:00)
To: amelyachtowners@...
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

 

Good afternoon Courtney,

2900 hours is nothing for a diesel engine normally maintained.
Mine almost has 4800 hours and I expect it to double that.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI

--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 12/6/16, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours
To: amelyachtowners@...
Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2016, 11:19 AM


 









Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying
(looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you
say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one
with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many
before a rebuild or new engine is needed?




Thanks for your help

Courtney

Cheers!










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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Beaute,
we owners are indebted to you for your experience and your willingness to share it with us, thank you for that. However today I must disagree.. Water in oil diminishes its lubricating ability and will cause greater wear. The more water the worse the lubrication. No one can judge how much water has got in, certainly not the owners who are reading this. Continuing for 50 to 100 hours, with how much water?? Is it continuing to come in? of course, at what rate? At an increasing rate? one would expect so. I remain firmly of the view that we should change the seals and wearing bearing BEFORE a leak starts, and if we get caught out, as soon as possible with the least running possible. As I said in a previous post, we are protecting a very expensive set of gears and bearings.
Regards
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl




From: "Beaute Olivier atlanticyachtsurvey@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: "amelyachtowners@..." <amelyachtowners@...>
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Re: Wearing out bearing

 
Good evening,

there has been about 10 wearing out bushings chrome plated. It's a test made by AMEL to see if the wear is less than with the usual bronze (they still use the same system on the 55 and 64).
This bushing should be replaced every 800 hours of engine running. Of course, the shaft alternator's hours count like the engine hours. However, some bushings last much more than 800 hours, and I've seen SMs that still had the original bushing after 10 years (I could see the owner wondering was the hell I was talking about when I asked: When did you last replace the bushing and seals?).
AMEL also mentioned a time (2 years) because it's just simple to remember and do it at the haul-out for anti-fouling.
The best way to monitor this system is to watch the oil in the container. When you start seeing mayonnaise or cafe-creme, then you need to plan a haul-out for this service, but the unit can go on running like this for 50 to 100 hours.
In fact, only a very little amount of water can create mayonnaise in this big "mixer-blender" that is this C-drive.
There is almost no air in the 8 liters of oil, so not much corrosion, even with a little bit of water...

I would say that, if you've never done it, and you reach 800 hours, don't try the DIY. You should wait up to 100 or 200 more hours (watching periodically your oil container) until you meet a good mechanic who will meticulously replace the bushing and seals with a good result.

Finally, yes, there is a lip-seal at the shaft input of the upper unit. When it leaks, you see the oil drops...and that's not so bad as water entering the unit.

Bon courage pour la mécanique!

Olivier


On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 9:24 AM, "Ian Park parkianj@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
800 hours engine use or 800 hours prop shaft use? With the prop shaft alternator on the Santorin turning all the time perhaps the wear time is shorter? Any views?

Ian

Ocean Hobo SN96






Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Alexandre Uster von Baar
 

Good afternoon Courtney,

2900 hours is nothing for a diesel engine normally maintained.
Mine almost has 4800 hours and I expect it to double that.

Sincerely, Alexandre
SM2K #289 NIKIMAT
Harbor View Marina, Tortola, BVI




--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 12/6/16, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@aol.com [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours
To: amelyachtowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 6, 2016, 11:19 AM


 









Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying
(looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you
say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one
with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many
before a rebuild or new engine is needed?




Thanks for your help

Courtney

Cheers!










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Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering system.

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Danny and Bill R,

Thanks for the help Bill, Danny and Olivier.  Exactly what I needed to know.   And yes Olivier, this was once Ann Harsh’s boat.

Our steering system was replaced half way through Harmonie’s second circumnavigation, so it is much newer than the boat herself.

My original autopilot installation was a Autohelm 6000 and an Autohelm 7000.  I quickly learned to love the 6000, but not so much the 7000. Nothing wrong with it, it was just primitive compared to what I am used to.

As part of our overall electronics upgrade, we swapped out the AH7000 for a new, more sophisticated, B&G autopilot which I love even more.  

Frequently, while sailing near to close hauled, I will just tell the  B&G pilot to just hold a constant rudder angle, and let the boat steer herself with the sails.  In this case, the AP computer commands a rudder angle of (for example) 2º port.  Once there, it should stay without further motor activity.  And it does--if I use the lineardrive motor connected to the quadrant.  

If I use the chain drive, it struggles as the rudder flops a tiny bit back and forth with the slack in the cables changing the reported angle.  It keeps trying to adjust, to hold that 2º angle when it should just be locked in place.

Like I said, it’s a tiny movement, but enough to be annoying and uselessly wearing on things.


Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
On the Hard, Fort Lauderdale, FL



Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Courtney Gorman
 

Thanks Bill!


-----Original Message-----
From: 'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2016 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

 
I will tell you from experience if a normally aspirated non-computer-controlled diesel is 8 years old and only has 700 hours, there will be problems with that engine.
Variables that make a difference in achieving 10,000 to 15,000 hours between overhaul are the owner's habits, maintenance, and engine brand.
Of course everyone has opinions and most people have limited experience with one brand, etc. I think that you could ask this question to 100 people and still not have any statistically significant information because opinions are based on limited user samplings.
Lastly, an engine is NOT a significant factor in buying a boat because an engine overhaul costs less than a new set of sails and running rigging, or new standing rigging. Engine hours mean little in the overall value relationship when considering a boat.
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Dec 6, 2016 1:20 PM, "Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying (looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many before a rebuild or new engine is needed?

Thanks for your help
Courtney
Cheers!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Courtney Gorman
 

both are volvo's
Thanks! much appreciated


-----Original Message-----
From: Kent Robertson karkauai@... [amelyachtowners]
To: amelyachtowners
Sent: Tue, Dec 6, 2016 12:55 pm
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

 
Hi Courtney.
What kind of engines are they?

Those are both low-hour Diesel engines.  With good care you should be able to get 10000 hours or more.
On the 2900 hour one, I'd ask for an engine oil analysis (although it won't be of any help if the oil has just been changed.  I'd also have a look at the inside of the exhaust elbow and turbo to assess for carbon buildup.
The 700 hr one is still in its infancy.

Make sure that the engines reach appropriate rpms under load on your sea trials.

Also, get a hand pump and a pvc pipe long enough to reach the bottom of the tank and suck some fuel into a clear jug to look for water and debris, especial ly if it's been sitting unused for months.

Good luck!

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
Panama cell: +507-61171896
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 
Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying (looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many before a rebuild or new engine is needed?

Thanks for your help
Courtney
Cheers!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering system.

Beaute Olivier
 

Hi again Bill,

I forgot to mention something about the other end of the cables.
They are connected to a rack-and-pinion system and their housing is secured on a square piece (located at each end of the square tubes, on portside). Some of you may have these pieces made of black plastic. If so, they may catch some slack after a few tenth of thousand miles. AMEL can sell you these pieces made of steel, that will never get any slack.
Most probably, the Santorins and SMs built after 1995 have steel square pieces. The ones bult before may have plastic ones, or their owners have already replaced those with steel ones.

Have a good watch...

Olivier




On Tuesday, December 6, 2016 6:45 PM, "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]" wrote:


 
Bill,
I will tell you my experience and what I have been told.
I have been told that the cables never need service or grease and that they are sealed.
I know that one owner experienced teeth on the rack gear breaking.
I experienced what I thought was a little too much play and found the bolts that clamp the quadrant to the rudder post to be loose.
The Raymarine 300 - 400 series of course computers will correct more ("hunt") than the S3G. I have both and prefer the S3G.
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Dec 6, 2016 11:06 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Another question for the Amel "old timers".  This one about the steering system.

Does anyone have a link to technical information about the system used? In Harmonie's reasonably complete paperwork from her commissioning I can't find anything.  After keeping the water out of the boat, making sure I can keep steering it the way I want to go is a close second in priority. I have two specific questions:  

Is any maintenance required?  Lubrication?  Adjustment? etc?

How much, if any, "play" should there be in the system between the wheel and the rudder?
 
Right now I would guess there is something like 0.25º of rudder angle play.  Barely enough to feel when hand steering, but when using the chain-drive AP motor it spends more time hunting back and forth for the commanded rudder angle than I would like to see.  

In the kind of cable and pulley systems I am used to this much wiggle would be indicative of very loose and sloppy cables.  On this enclosed pull-pull system I am not sure...

Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
On the hard Fort Lauderdale, FL





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering system.

Danny and Yvonne SIMMS
 

Hi Bill,
surprised you say the Raymarine "hunts". Do you adjust the response rate and the rudder gain. I have found I an take the responses from rapid to infrequent by adjusting these. I have settled on a rudder gain setting and mostly have the response on 3 but at times move that number.
Cheers
Danny
SM 299 Ocean Pearl



From: "'Bill & Judy Rouse' yahoogroups@... [amelyachtowners]"
To: amelyachtowners@...
Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2016 6:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] Steering system.

 
Bill,
I will tell you my experience and what I have been told.
I have been told that the cables never need service or grease and that they are sealed.
I know that one owner experienced teeth on the rack gear breaking.
I experienced what I thought was a little too much play and found the bolts that clamp the quadrant to the rudder post to be loose.
The Raymarine 300 - 400 series of course computers will correct more ("hunt") than the S3G. I have both and prefer the S3G.
Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail

On Dec 6, 2016 11:06 AM, "greatketch@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 
Another question for the Amel "old timers".  This one about the steering system.

Does anyone have a link to technical information about the system used? In Harmonie's reasonably complete paperwork from her commissioning I can't find anything.  After keeping the water out of the boat, making sure I can keep steering it the way I want to go is a close second in priority. I have two specific questions:  

Is any maintenance required?  Lubrication?  Adjustment? etc?

How much, if any, "play" should there be in the system between the wheel and the rudder?
 
Right now I would guess there is something like 0.25º of rudder angle play.  Barely enough to feel when hand steering, but when using the chain-drive AP motor it spends more time hunting back and forth for the commanded rudder angle than I would like to see.  

In the kind of cable and pulley systems I am used to this much wiggle would be indicative of very loose and sloppy cables.  On this enclosed pull-pull system I am not sure...

Thanks for any guidance you can give.

Bill Kinney
SM#160 Harmonie
On the hard Fort Lauderdale, FL





Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Bill & Judy Rouse <yahoogroups@...>
 

I will tell you from experience if a normally aspirated non-computer-controlled diesel is 8 years old and only has 700 hours, there will be problems with that engine.

Variables that make a difference in achieving 10,000 to 15,000 hours between overhaul are the owner's habits, maintenance, and engine brand.

Of course everyone has opinions and most people have limited experience with one brand, etc. I think that you could ask this question to 100 people and still not have any statistically significant information because opinions are based on limited user samplings.

Lastly, an engine is NOT a significant factor in buying a boat because an engine overhaul costs less than a new set of sails and running rigging, or new standing rigging. Engine hours mean little in the overall value relationship when considering a boat.

Bill Rouse
BeBe Amel 53 #387
Sent from my tablet
+1832-380-4970 USA Voice Mail


On Dec 6, 2016 1:20 PM, "Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners]" <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:
 

Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying (looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many before a rebuild or new engine is needed?


Thanks for your help
Courtney
Cheers!


Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

Bill Kinney <greatketch@...>
 

Diesel engine hours are a small part of the story.  And lower is not always better.  Engines like to run—especially diesels.

Certainly different people will give you different numbers, but most marine diesels will run something like 6000 to 12000 hours before needing a major rebuild depending on a LOT of things...

2900 hours is a young engine--if well cared for.

On the other hand an engine that sits and doesn’t get used dies an early death.  An engine that is 8 years old that has only 700 hours.  That’s only 7 hours a month on average.  If those hours were evenly distributed (maybe running an hour every week?) that would be OK.  On the other hand if it sat for many months (years?) without running that would be bad…



Bill Kinney
SM #160, Harmonie
On the Hard, Fort Lauderdale, FL




Re: [Amel Yacht Owners] engine hours

karkauai
 

Hi Courtney.
What kind of engines are they?

Those are both low-hour Diesel engines.  With good care you should be able to get 10000 hours or more.
On the 2900 hour one, I'd ask for an engine oil analysis (although it won't be of any help if the oil has just been changed.  I'd also have a look at the inside of the exhaust elbow and turbo to assess for carbon buildup.
The 700 hr one is still in its infancy.

Make sure that the engines reach appropriate rpms under load on your sea trials.

Also, get a hand pump and a pvc pipe long enough to reach the bottom of the tank and suck some fuel into a clear jug to look for water and debris, especially if it's been sitting unused for months.

Good luck!

Kent Robertson
S/V Kristy
Panama cell: +507-61171896
USA cell: 828-234-6819

On Dec 6, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Courtney Gorman Itsfun1@... [amelyachtowners] <amelyachtowners@...> wrote:

 

Hi all I am new to this group and in the buying (looking) stage.  As far as engine hours go what would you say about an 8 year old engine with 2900 hrs compared to one with 700 hours?  Due hours tell the true story and how many before a rebuild or new engine is needed?


Thanks for your help
Courtney
Cheers!