Date   

Re: Mizzen furler

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

Ofcourse I remember you and Diana!! 
Talked to Jonas and he think that the mizzen and the one on the main is similar.

But it sounds like you have managed to take it down now.

Regards to Diana! 

Regards
Ann-Sofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998.


Skickat från min iPhone

9 juni 2020 kl. 18:04 skrev Gary Silver via groups.io <garysilver@...>:

Hi Pat: 

It is unclear to me what you are referring to when you say, "the problem is in the swivel part of the fuller".  
Are you unable to crank the winch handle drive more than 360 degrees?
Have you verified that something isn't holding the foil (attached to the gearbox with a bolt) from turning?

Please see this file and read it completely, https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/filessearch?q=mizzen+furler before proceeding.  

The most common cause (in my experience) for difficulty turning the mizzen furling is due to "crud" build up of salt and debris on the winch handle drive-shaft within the bore of the mizzen mast.  When I was re-assembling the mizzen gearbox (having discovered that dis-assembly was completely un-necessary) I found that if the gearbox shaft (item #10 in the exploded parts diagram in my file noted above) wasn't completely seated then the bevel gears would bind.  Perhaps your shaft has backed out slightly causing this binding effect.  I doubt that, but it is worth investigating.  THERE IS NO GREASE IN THE MIZZEN FURLING GEAR BOX!!!  I suppose it is possible that there is broken tooth on the bevel gears that might lock things up but you can inspect for that by viewing the gears through the mounting bolt hole on the side of the gearbox (where the bolts that hold in the mast go).  Look at the file, separate the foil from the gearbox to assure the foil isn't binding, remove the gearbox from the mast taking care to note the order of the washers and spacers, inspect for broken teeth on the gears, remove, clean and re-install the shaft for the winch handle and only then if you still have trouble disassemble the gearbox.  That disassembly is a huge job and will yield minimal results (watched Brian on Delos do that job and destroy the end of the gearbox, requiring new parts to be machined).  Any other questions or clarification don't hesitate to give me a call  801-543-5801.

All the best, 

Gary S. SIlver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico


Re: Need help in Palma

Doug Smith
 

Thanks, I appreciate the ideas.  I searched the SSCA, of which I am a member, and there are no hosts in Palma.  A couple of hosts in the Canaries, but no one in the Balearics.  Don’t post on Tran-ocean.org.  This is a pretty fluid situation, and I spoke with the crew a few minutes ago, and have them staying another 24 hours.  The shipping company is telling me the ship is upright and they have unloaded most of the ships.  I am hopeful for more clarity by morning local time.

We are most concerned that if we change out crew, it will mess up the loading and customs for the ship transport.

If there was a fellow owner, stuck in Palma, it would make sense to switch out crew, but trying to identify and find a new crew on short notice (hopefully) might be worse.

 

Doug Smith

S/V Aventura, Amel 54-113

Currently Palma

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Converting my Amel 54 to lithium batteries: what I did, what I like and what I don't like (after one year of full time live aboard use)

Scott SV Tengah
 

Jamie,

Good to hear it's working out for you. Have you tried to run AC all night on battery yet? We draw 25-35% if we run just aft AC overnight.

For your Mastervolt alternator regulator, I had the same problem and solved it with a solid state relay and two Hella relays. See #50689  

We charge with 200amps nominal (120a Quattro + 80 a Skylla) and only see high temperatures at the very end of charging (95% SOC +) or if one of the cells is severely imbalanced relative to the rest of the cells in the battery. Note that this imbalance shows up as a voltage difference, but due to the flat charge/discharge curve of lithium, you won't notice it until 90%+ SOC. Can you monitor cell level voltage? With the Victron batteries, you can connect via bluetooth and do just that.

Also I'm surprised you can't change charging current via VictronConnect on your PC. I typically connect to my Quattro using ethernet, but I connect to my solar controller via bluetooth (from my Mac) and can change everything via bluetooth.

Keep in mind that you will need to revise how you think about SOC and longevity. Lithiums do NOT like being kept anywhere near full. I try to cycle mine between 40-85% (ideally no more than 80%) SOC and then charge it up to 100% once a month to balance out the cells, since balancing only occurs on the Victrons when they're nearly full. Independent literature indicates I'll get over 5000 cycles doing this. I know some who take it between 10-100% SOC daily and have been fine for a few years, FYI.

Monthly charging to 100% also resets the BMV-712 battery monitor. Not sure which BM you have, but don't forget to change the settings on it to match lithium. Of course, you MUST set all the chargers to lithium profiles otherwise you will kill the batteries very quickly.

So you've been thinking about charging cutoffs - how do you deal with low voltage cutoff? As mentioned in that post, I opted not to use the BatteryProtect, which would disconnect loads when there's a cell low voltage condition, but rather I'm trying to get the Victron charger/inverter to trigger the generator to start when cell low voltage and/or low SOC is encountered. Sounds like you're an engineer - want to help figure that out? :)


--
Scott 
2007 A54 #69
SV Tengah
http://www.svtengah.com


Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Gary, I have removed the gear box and with the swivel in hand it will only rotate to a point and then there is resistant and requires effort to get it past that point,once past it turns freely almost 360 degrees and stops again until I force it by the spot. It must be an internal problem ,probably a bearing ,don't know what else it could be. I am just going to give the gearbox a good soak and spray some lub into it.
Thanks,
Pat
SM#123


-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Silver via groups.io <garysilver@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 1:04 pm
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat: 

It is unclear to me what you are referring to when you say, "the problem is in the swivel part of the fuller".  
Are you unable to crank the winch handle drive more than 360 degrees?
Have you verified that something isn't holding the foil (attached to the gearbox with a bolt) from turning?

Please see this file and read it completely, https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/filessearch?q=mizzen+furler before proceeding.  

The most common cause (in my experience) for difficulty turning the mizzen furling is due to "crud" build up of salt and debris on the winch handle drive-shaft within the bore of the mizzen mast.  When I was re-assembling the mizzen gearbox (having discovered that dis-assembly was completely un-necessary) I found that if the gearbox shaft (item #10 in the exploded parts diagram in my file noted above) wasn't completely seated then the bevel gears would bind.  Perhaps your shaft has backed out slightly causing this binding effect.  I doubt that, but it is worth investigating.  THERE IS NO GREASE IN THE MIZZEN FURLING GEAR BOX!!!  I suppose it is possible that there is broken tooth on the bevel gears that might lock things up but you can inspect for that by viewing the gears through the mounting bolt hole on the side of the gearbox (where the bolts that hold in the mast go).  Look at the file, separate the foil from the gearbox to assure the foil isn't binding, remove the gearbox from the mast taking care to note the order of the washers and spacers, inspect for broken teeth on the gears, remove, clean and re-install the shaft for the winch handle and only then if you still have trouble disassemble the gearbox.  That disassembly is a huge job and will yield minimal results (watched Brian on Delos do that job and destroy the end of the gearbox, requiring new parts to be machined).  Any other questions or clarification don't hesitate to give me a call  801-543-5801.

All the best, 

Gary S. SIlver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico


Re: Need help in Palma

Wolfgang Weber
 

Hello Doug,
If you don't mind I could post your message in trans-ocean.org  . This is a german / international organisation with more than 5000 members. We have many people all over the world who could help.
Membership is only 60 € per year and many marinas will give you 10% rebate.
Seeing the pictures I expect a delay for you for weeks. You may perhaps think about of sailing the Med. and sail to US next year.
My situation is opposite to yours - can't get to Fort Lauderdale from Germany and sail her back to the Med.
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162







Re: Need help in Palma

 

Are you a member of SSCA (Seven Seas Cruising Association) or OCC (Ocean Cruising Club)? I believe they each have "hosts" in Mallorca. I used these hosts to solve issues around the world. The outcome was always favorable.

Bill
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 11:52 AM Doug Smith via groups.io <dugsmith98=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Hey Fellow Amel owners.  My wife and I are the new owners of Aventura, Amel 54-113.  We purchased in Nov 2019, and began moving from Greece to Gibraltar and planned winter crossing in Feb/March to US.  As many of you have also faced, we were restricted on traveling, and remain locked out of Europe.  Our boat was in Gibraltar for 5 months, and so we arranged for a shipping company to transport her to US, which was scheduled to begin this week.
Since we were also unable to get into Gibraltar, we hired a crew to move her to Palma where loading would occur on a transport ship.  Unfortunately, or fortunately, we were about an hour from loading, when the transport ship lost electrical power and its compartments on the starboard side flooded.  The ship needed tugs to keep it from flipping over in the harbour.  I am just glad we were not already loading, or tied up next to one of those massive ships, crushing ours.
The problem now is I have a paid crew just sitting in Palma and cost about 1000 pounds per day.  I am wondering if there are any fellow Amel owners in Palma, who could assist with moving the sailboat Aventura across the harbour, which would allow me to relieve the crew.  I am not sure yet when they will allow for loading, but am hoping it will be in the next 48 hours.  But that is still up in the air, since currently, the tugs are still keeping the transport ship from flipping.  Even if you know of a captain who lives in Palma, that would lbe helpful.  Looking for any assistance,
Thanks, Doug
Aventura, 54-113, in Palma, very far away from me.


Re: Mizzen furler

Gary Silver
 
Edited

Hi Pat: 

It is unclear to me what you are referring to when you say, "the problem is in the swivel part of the furler".  
Are you unable to crank the winch handle drive more than 360 degrees?
Have you verified that something isn't holding the foil (attached to the gearbox with a bolt) from turning?

Please see this file and read it completely, https://amelyachtowners.groups.io/g/main/filessearch?q=mizzen+furler   The file you are looking for is: "Amel – Super Maramu 2000 – Mizzen Furling Gearbox Overhaul Final.doc"  before proceeding.  

The most common cause (in my experience) for difficulty turning the mizzen furling is due to "crud" build up of salt and debris on the winch handle drive-shaft within the bore of the mizzen mast.  When I was re-assembling the mizzen gearbox (having discovered that dis-assembly was completely un-necessary) I found that if the gearbox shaft (item #10 in the exploded parts diagram in my file noted above) wasn't completely seated then the bevel gears would bind.  Perhaps your shaft has backed out slightly causing this binding effect.  I doubt that, but it is worth investigating.  THERE IS NO GREASE IN THE MIZZEN FURLING GEAR BOX!!!  I suppose it is possible that there is broken tooth on the bevel gears that might lock things up but you can inspect for that by viewing the gears through the mounting bolt hole on the side of the gearbox (where the bolts that hold in the mast go).  Look at the file, separate the foil from the gearbox to assure the foil isn't binding, remove the gearbox from the mast taking care to note the order of the washers and spacers, inspect for broken teeth on the gears, remove, clean and re-install the shaft for the winch handle and only then if you still have trouble disassemble the gearbox.  That disassembly is a huge job and will yield minimal results (watched Brian on Delos do that job and destroy the end of the gearbox, requiring new parts to be machined).  Any other questions or clarification don't hesitate to give me a call  801-543-5801.

All the best, 

Gary S. SIlver
s/v Liahona 
Amel SM 2000 #335
Puerto Del Rey, Puerto Rico


Need help in Palma

Doug Smith
 

Hey Fellow Amel owners.  My wife and I are the new owners of Aventura, Amel 54-113.  We purchased in Nov 2019, and began moving from Greece to Gibraltar and planned winter crossing in Feb/March to US.  As many of you have also faced, we were restricted on traveling, and remain locked out of Europe.  Our boat was in Gibraltar for 5 months, and so we arranged for a shipping company to transport her to US, which was scheduled to begin this week.
Since we were also unable to get into Gibraltar, we hired a crew to move her to Palma where loading would occur on a transport ship.  Unfortunately, or fortunately, we were about an hour from loading, when the transport ship lost electrical power and its compartments on the starboard side flooded.  The ship needed tugs to keep it from flipping over in the harbour.  I am just glad we were not already loading, or tied up next to one of those massive ships, crushing ours.
The problem now is I have a paid crew just sitting in Palma and cost about 1000 pounds per day.  I am wondering if there are any fellow Amel owners in Palma, who could assist with moving the sailboat Aventura across the harbour, which would allow me to relieve the crew.  I am not sure yet when they will allow for loading, but am hoping it will be in the next 48 hours.  But that is still up in the air, since currently, the tugs are still keeping the transport ship from flipping.  Even if you know of a captain who lives in Palma, that would lbe helpful.  Looking for any assistance,
Thanks, Doug
Aventura, 54-113, in Palma, very far away from me.


Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Ann-Sofie, I am guessing that is the same one documented in Bill's book and it was the furler/swivel for the genoa .I saw that and thus saw that a plug needs to be removed allowing the bearings out in order to separate the parts . It appears that the mizzen swivel is of the same design. Diane and I met you and Jonas probably five or so years ago in Prickly Bay ,hope you guys are doing well. Diane showed me your new interior,looks great.
Thanks ,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg <ann-sofie@...>
To: main@amelyachtowners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 9:48 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

There is a document in the file section with a lot of pictures when we renovated our svivel.

Hälsningar
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

9 juni 2020 kl. 14:23 skrev Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...>:


Hi Pat the Mizzen furler is not greased I would try rinsing with copious amounts of fresh water maybe even soap and water first and watch what comes out of the bottom drain hole this may take care of your problem before begining a larger project.
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:19 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Mizzen furler

Annsofie & Jonas Svanberg
 

There is a document in the file section with a lot of pictures when we renovated our svivel.

Hälsningar
Ann-Sofie Svanberg
S/Y Lady Annila SM232, 1998


Skickat från min iPhone

9 juni 2020 kl. 14:23 skrev Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...>:


Hi Pat the Mizzen furler is not greased I would try rinsing with copious amounts of fresh water maybe even soap and water first and watch what comes out of the bottom drain hole this may take care of your problem before begining a larger project.
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:19 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Mizzen furler

Courtney Gorman
 

Okay Pat I miss understood If there’s Nothing caught in there than you probably do need to replace a bearing


On Jun 9, 2020, at 9:39 AM, Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...> wrote:


Courtney, I assumed that the gearbox would have grease inside ,I know it would not be easy to open up,if it proves difficult ,I will just flush it out. However my problem is with the swivel part of the furling system,as it rotates it catches at some point and will not rotate without forcing it pass this point ,then rotates freely until catching again. I assume it must be a bad bearing or something inside causing a problem.
Thanks,
pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...>
To: sailw32@... <sailw32@...>; main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 9:21 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat the Mizzen furler is not greased I would try rinsing with copious amounts of fresh water maybe even soap and water first and watch what comes out of the bottom drain hole this may take care of your problem before begining a larger project.
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:19 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

Courtney, I assumed that the gearbox would have grease inside ,I know it would not be easy to open up,if it proves difficult ,I will just flush it out. However my problem is with the swivel part of the furling system,as it rotates it catches at some point and will not rotate without forcing it pass this point ,then rotates freely until catching again. I assume it must be a bad bearing or something inside causing a problem.
Thanks,
pat
SM Shenanigans


-----Original Message-----
From: Courtney Gorman via groups.io <Itsfun1@...>
To: sailw32@... <sailw32@...>; main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 9:21 am
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

Hi Pat the Mizzen furler is not greased I would try rinsing with copious amounts of fresh water maybe even soap and water first and watch what comes out of the bottom drain hole this may take care of your problem before begining a larger project.
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:19 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Mizzen furler

Courtney Gorman
 

Hi Pat the Mizzen furler is not greased I would try rinsing with copious amounts of fresh water maybe even soap and water first and watch what comes out of the bottom drain hole this may take care of your problem before begining a larger project.
Cheers
Courtney
Trippin
54 #101


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick McAneny via groups.io <sailw32@...>
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Sent: Tue, Jun 9, 2020 8:19 am
Subject: [AmelYachtOwners] Mizzen furler

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Mizzen furler

Patrick McAneny
 

I have a problem with the mizzen furler not able to rotate 360 degrees. I have determined that the problem is within the swivel part of the furler. It will rotate freely ,but then binds up and needs to be forced to be able to rotate. I need to take it off and separate the two parts , I assume the bearings have degraded . When I slide it down and off the foil will ball bearings fall out ? How are the parts separated ? Has anyone done this before. I will also try to disassemble the gearbox to clean and grease it while it is off.
Thanks,
Pat
SM Shenanigans


Re: Keel rust and ballast straps on a Maramu

Jacob Champness
 

Thanks Miles!


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

James Alton
 

Paul,

   Most of the vacuum gauges that I have seen used on filter installations show a yellow band starting at around - 6 psi but that is not engine specific, just general.  In my experience, with clean filters the drop should be almost nothing with the size engines we have and the correspondingly relatively  small fuel flow.  I have replaced a number of these vacuum gauges that were not functioning properly so I don’t actually have much faith in them.  I do think that you are likely on the right path and are getting very good advice here.  An air leak or a restrictive filter can certainly cause the symptoms that you are describing but there are other possibilities, a plugged fuel pick up tube, bad injection pump etc. .  If changing the filter and trying to fix the air leak does not help, consider bypassing as much of the fuel system as you can to see if that corrects the problem to narrow things down.  Running the engine from a jug and a short fuel line connected to the fuel pump can sometimes help reveal the true problem and to determine if the problem is with the engine or the fuel system.  

Best of luck to you.

James
SV Sueño
Maramu #220

On Jun 8, 2020, at 6:01 PM, Paul Dowd and Sharon Brown <paul.dowd@...> wrote:

Could I ask for some clarification on the use of the Racor filter gauge. My understanding is that this is a vacuum gauge and the higher the reading the more fuel blockage there is. Reading below runs counter to this interpretation. So how does one read this gauge and at what reading should I be concerned enough to swap filters?
 
Cheers,
Paul
S/Y Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98 - Grenada
 
From: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io <main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io> On Behalf Of Michael & Robyn
Sent: 08 June 2020 22:45
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits
 
Thank y'all for the suggestions and the link.
This morning I rechecked the probe I took from the engine fuel filter. It was sitting overnight in a small glass jar with a sealed lid.
In daylight I was able to spot a ~3mm diameter water bubble at the bottom of the jar.
I took probes from both Razor filters. The unused one was clean and no water. The other one had a bit of dirt and added a few more very small water bubbles to my jar.

Bill,
you asked why I didn't switch to the other Razor filter.
First the filter didn't look dirty from outside shining a flash light against it. Second the pressure gauge was showing no significant low pressure. 
And in case of dirt in the fuel I wanted to keep the second filter as my last reserve for a docking under engine maneuver.

We ran the Onan Gen-set last night again for an hour.
Today I did bleed the fuel with the manual pump again. Cleaned the air intake filter, which did not really show significant dirt.

I started the engine and it would run for a few seconds without load except the alternator. I tried several times. It would start at the second attempt and run for 10 to 20s and then drop RPMs. Putting the throttle forward made the engine speed up. But it would not last and die. One could hear that it was running on one or two cylinders.
I ran the Gen again for an hour to keep batteries charged. Then a few more attempts. When the RPMs where dropping I put throttle forward.
Finally I succeeded trying to keep it at 1500 RPMs. After 10 to 15 min it sometimes speed up to 1625 ... 1650 RPMs.
After 30 min it run constant at 1650 with the initial throttle setting that gave 1500 RPMs. One could occasionally hear a missed ignition. After a total of 45 min the engine ran fine still at 1650 RPM. Since batteries where charged to 90% I reduced to idle for a few min and the engine ran smooth at 850 RPM until I shut off.
We will see how it behaves tomorrow.

I observed a small puddle of diesel fuel at the rim of the manual pump which I had hit by accident diving for probing the razor filters. 
My current assumption is that I have a small air leak in the fuel lines, maybe the manual pump itself. Or the air was introduced when the mechanic checked the razor filters.

To Giovannis point, 
I had pushed the manual prime pump to help the engine start.

Will send an update tomorrow how it went.

Thank you and kind regards

-- 
Michael & Robyn 

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
still anchored south of FIsherman's Island near Cape Charles entrance to Chesapeake Bay


-- 
Cheers
Paul
Ya Fohi - Amel 54 #98


Re: SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Craig Briggs
 

Hi MIke,
Although ours is an SN, without the notorious SM corroding copper sleeve, I plumbed my aftermarket holding tanks with 1 1/2" PVC pipe 20 years ago. Annual or so doses of HCl keep the interior mineral build up at bay and rubber flexible couplings at the deck and through hull fitting eliminate vibration issues with the rigid glued pipe structure. Imho, far superior than even the most expensive hose that sewage permeates with smells after a few years. PVC never permeates odors (well, at least for the last 20 years).
Good luck with your project.
Craig 


Re: YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

karkauai
 

Hi Michael & Robyn,
This won't be new info, but will reinforce Bill's thoughts.
I've had similar problems twice in the last 11 years if ownership.  The first time was very much like your problem. It turned out to be a very small leak in the fuel line that never dripped fuel, but sucked air when rpm got over 2K. After I ran out of ideas, a mechanic bled the injector connections and saw a few bubbles. It took going through the entire fuel system to find the problem. I wonder now if I could have pressurized the system and found a leak.
The second time the Yanmar only died when we were motoring and running the Onan to use the microwave.  The Racor fuel filters inspection bowls looked clean and free of water. I opened the second Racor and voila, problem solved. I cut the offending Racor open when we got to port, and found the filter material disintegrating. Before that I changed the Racors only every few years. Now the get changed at least every year and before a passage.

Good luck, let us know what you find.

Kent
SM 243
Kristy


On Jun 8, 2020 11:15 AM, Michael & Robyn <SY_RIPPLE@...> wrote:
YANMAR 4JH3-HTE Diesel Engine RPMs drop and then it quits

We ran under engine for 30hrs motor-sailing from Brunswick GA to Chesapeake Bay.
We turned the engine off when we got a bit of wind to sail. It was off for an hour.
Running one hour it first time suddenly reduced RPMs and died.
First thought was that we caught a fishing line. But that didn't seem to be the case.
We started the engine again and it ran fine under load for a couple of hours then it
failed again reducing RPMs. I took it out of gear, put the Morse throttle more forward, it didn't speed up and died.
We continued under sail for two more days. It failed a few seconds after starting and trying to increase RPMs w/o load except for the alternator.

I have checked so far:
Razor fuel filters are clean and no water. I have not switched to the alternate Razor filter.
The ONAN Gen-set ran fine several times for one to two hours each since the first engine failure.
It feeds from the same fuel line.
I checked the fuel filter at the YANMAR engine.
- no air bubbles when bleeding and pumping with the manual pump
- no debris and no water from the bottom drain valve
- the fuel sensor shows open for both cases, engine off, engine running and dying.
    The panel doesn't show an error light even with switch disconnected, open ended or short circuited. I don't know whether it is wired up at all or lamp is dead.
- I disconnected, cleaned contacts, and reconnected the magnetic shut off valve connector.
    My assumption is, that the magnetic valve only shuts off fuel while activated by pushing the STOP button on the panel.
- Engine temperature always was around 80°C
- Oil and cooling liquids are all looking healthy
- engine fails with and without mechanical load
- the engine is from Year 2003 and has 2750hrs
- we had the engine serviced a week before we sailed: engine oil changed, fuel filters checked, main engine belt exchanged, impeller changed.
    The mechanic didn't put the new quarter $ size rubber disc. I installed it later.
Visual inspection after we experienced failure I discovered that the starboard forward engine mounting bolt is rusty;
looking above I found a small corrosion caused water leak of the elbow water mixer for the exhaust, just below where the flange/pipe  from the turbocharger comes in.
This seems to be a few drips only and must have been going on for a while given how rusty the engine mount nut and bolt look. So I don't think this is the root cause of my problem.

We are now anchored south of Fisherman's Island at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay near Cape Charles in a calm. Outlook for some wind tomorrow evening.
I am running out of ideas and looking for suggestions from fellow AMEL owners.

--
Michael & Robyn

SY RIPPLE SM2K # 417
currently near Cape Charles US Chesapeake Bay entrance



SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak -second attempt

Mike Ondra
 

From ALETES, SM#240 1999 with Jabsco manual pump: Head backflow and Holding Tanks

We have persistently had issues with holding tank backflow to the toilet requiring frequent cleaning or replacement of the joker valve. Additional measures have included the addition of a Jabsco check valve as well as the installation of the “locking” version of the Jabsco manual pump. Three layers of defense could not defeat the backflow problem, apparently due to buildup of crystals on all the backflow preventive devices.  

Also, we have experienced leakage at the connections of the riser hoses (both inlet and outlet) where they connect to the tank. As others have noted, that connection on some models is a copper sleeve that is glassed into the tank, and that copper corrodes over time developing pin-holes and associated leaks. Nasty. Band-aid fixes over the years usually held for a time, but the corrosion keeps on working and leaks reappear.

During our latest effort at cleaning and replacing the valves we had a surprise. As anyone who has removed the riser pipe that connects the pump to the tank knows, the contents of the entire riser drain out. Hence it is prudent to flush with a significant volume of water prior to attempting the disconnect. By doing so, the contents that spill into the shower pan are “mostly” clean water.  In this last removal, however, the contents of the ENTIRE holding tank spilled into the shower pan (no further description required). So now we are apparently dealing with a third holding tank issue. Time for a major effort in holding tank repair.

The internal workings of the holding tank have always been a bit of mystery as there is no access port and the 3 openings to the tank are rather small, basically 1.5”. We have not seen shop drawings or photos of the interior of the tank, but from BB postings, our understanding has been that from the copper sleeve penetrating the fiberglass there is a riser tube in the tank that delivers the waste and spills somewhere near the top of the tank. So before developing a plan of attack for repairs, we removed the deck plate to get slightly larger access to the tank to see what was inside and perhaps determine the problem. Here are the long-awaited photos of the inside of the tank looking down from the deck plate. 

    

So as one can see, the copper sleeve also corroded within the tank and ultimately the riser extension within the tank separated from it. Wastes were being pumped into the BOTTOM of the tank, and any disconnection of the riser hose in the inboard side would drain any remaining contents within the tank above the drain sump. One curiosity is why the riser within the tank would loop up and then back down so that the discharge point is low in the tank. We couldn’t see but presume there is no vacuum breaker at the top of the loop, so as soon as the contents level would be above the discharge end of the loop, the riser would not drain itself, and in fact become a siphon for backflow. Anyway, since it seemed attached to the tank wall and/or top and we could not get into the tank to disconnect, we could not remove it and it was abandoned in place. NOTE TO OTHERS who have experienced the corrosion of the copper sleeve below the tank - this failure within the tank may be in your future as well.

Mark Erdos on May 3, 2017 posted an excellent description of his fix for the inboard portion of the copper pipe corrosion while leaving the upper copper pipe and its connection within the tank in place. This was not an option for us due to the separation above. So, following his procedure but completely removing the copper, our solution was a continuous piece of sanitary hose from check-valve near the pump all the way to the top of the holding tank, no connections to leak.

    

We reamed out the hole in the fiberglass with rotary rasp so the tubing would slip through. Flared the top of the hole a bit to receive epoxy resin that would seal around the tubing and ooze down between the tube and the fiberglass. Putty was placed around the internal end of the joint to prevent the epoxy from running out. The resin was delivered to the flared opening at the top of the tube/fiberglass joint by pouring it down a PVC pipe/straw.

   

After curing we filled the tank with clean water to test for leaks. There seemed to be none. However, overnight there was evidence of a slight leak. We suspect there was insuffient gap between the tube and the fiberglass for the somewhat viscous resin to fully flow and fill. Otherwise, this solution seems good. So now the plan is to remove the tube, ream out the fiberglass a bit more to achieve, say, a 2mm gap between them and once again fill with resin.

Any comments, experiences, words of wisdom appreciated as we plan for this FINAL fix.

Mike Ondra, ALETES SM#240, Rock Hall, MD

 

 

 

 

 

 


SM 2000 head backflow and holding tank leak

Mike Ondra