Date   

Re: How much Solar?

EricOpdeweegh
 

Ken,

Your video and arguments seem rock solid. In Holland we would say: "Daar is geen speld tussen te krijgen". Rough translation: Can't get a sewing-pin between those arguments :) 

Nothing is said however about extra ventilation. Did you install extra ventilation in the bank storage area? 

Thanks and Happy Sailing

Eric Opdeweegh
Future SM2K owner, hopefully very soon:)


Re: How much Solar?

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

Hello Billy,

Aquarius was fitted with 600W of hard panels, and we did pretty good for 3 years.  Then our Victron Batteries Started to go.  Once your batteries start to go, they take more energy to charge.  As they age it's like cutting your battery capacity in 1/2 as well as your solar capacity.  My video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcWBiDnB794 about batteries is still relevent.

Remember not use your bow thruster too much, and when you do, turn on your genset with all the chargers going full blast.  But, you probably only have a 100A of charger, so you will be sucking 300A every time you push that joystick.  Sucking 300A out of your 400AH battery pack is not really good for them, and if you don't run your genset, you will be sucking 400A.   Just a note for all SM and A54 owners - the less you use your BowThruster the longer your Lead Batteries will last.

We just switched to LiFePO4 batteries.  They are better, and yes, cheaper than Lead.  Too man benefits to list here.   Now, I can run my AC in one cabin 3 or 4 hours a night without turning on the genset.  Now that is a game changer.  And, another cool thing, 400A is nothing for a 600AH bank of LiFePO4.  I bought my new batteries for under $4000.  There are a lot of people out there trying to scare you about LiFePO4 batteries.  In my opinion LiFePO4 is cheaper to buy, easier to maintain, and all the the scare tactics from those who what to make bigger profits, are just keeping to the sales strategy.   

For a 400AH bank of Gel, the cost is just over $3000.  They are rated for about 600 to 800 cycles, so if you're really good, they are going to last you 1200 cycles.  The LiFePO4 batteries are rated at 5000 cycles, so if I'm really bad I might see 2500 cycles.  Man, I don't know why anyone is buying Lead these days.

But, I will say there is one good thing about Lead Batteries on an SM.  Your SM will be weighted correctly, and it will tilt much less to port when you're running low on fuel.

All the Best,

Ken



Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Alan Leslie
 

AND in French Polynesia 220V 60 Hz !!!!

Cheers

Alan
Elyse SM437


Re: Water coming in at portside from a previous wrong repair

VICTOR MOLERO
 

Great advice, Ken.
I appreciate your comments. 
Following Bill's recommendation, I wrote to Olivier. I'll see what he says about it.
Best.
Victor 


Re: Water coming in at portside from a previous wrong repair

Ken Powers SV Aquarius <ken@...>
 

Hello Victor,

I agree with Bill to get a professional opinion!  But, I do have some comments and would like to know if they make sense.  

1.  Do not let anyone patch this from the inside.  This will continue to allow water to get into the fiberglass.  This repair would just be an infected bandaid causing more problems in the future.  You need to find the place where the water enters.

2.  Once you find the place where the water is entering - grind it down, pour lots of alcohol down the crack, then put some Creek Crack cure down it.

3.  Then a few layers of fiberglass, then some Gelcoat.

4.  I would not seal from the interior.  This might trap some moisture in your fiberglass causing more problems in the future.

Just something to think about.

Best,

Ken Powers
Aquarius


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Matt Salatino
 

If you REALLY want confusing, Japan’s power is 100 v. 
50 Hz in the east, and 60 Hz in the west. They use the same outlets as the US. 
That must make appliance manufacturers, crazy!

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 2, 2021, at 11:30 PM, Brent Cameron <brentcameron61@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]
[Reason: Typo]

Actually Matt is right, the US (and Canadian) standard is 120Volts AC +/- 5% (which is 114 to 126 Volts) at 60 Hertz.

Way back in the early days, Edison (who won the power battle with AC power over Tesla’s DC), had set the standard at 110 VAC to ensure that houses at the end of lines could at least get 100 VAC and many appliances were labeled that way but the standard was changed to 115V in about the 1930’s and then in 1984, the NEC mandated 120V +/- 5%.    It has been creeping up to make power transmission more efficient with the existing gauges of wire used.  

Normal residential power is delivered  as single phase from each leg of the transformer at 120 VAC to neutral with the other leg to neutral being 180 degrees out of phase (so the two hot wires together will give 240 VAC - still at 60 Hertz).   Industrial systems (and some marinas) use 3 phase power because it is more efficient and that system has three hot legs, each of which is at 120 VAC to neutral but 208 VAC to another leg as the power is out of phase by only 120˚.  Think of the power as coming in on a Sine wave oscillating at 60 Hertz.  When you combine those three phases together you get 360 degrees (or 120 degrees on each of three legs).     The net of it is that your boat can see anything from 208 to 240 VAC if you join two hot legs together or 120 VAC if you just use one hot leg to neutral.  All 60 Hertz and +/-5%.  

Most devices labelled 110VAC will have no difficulty at all at 120VAC.  NEMA rated motors will go +/- 10% of their nameplate voltages.   Old incandescent bulbs might burn a bit hotter (as might the element on your stove or hair dryer) but the motors will take to it just fine as will your electronics.

Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Brent Cameron
 
Edited

Actually Matt is right, the US (and Canadian) standard is 120Volts AC +/- 5% (which is 114 to 126 Volts) at 60 Hertz.

Way back in the early days, Edison (who won the power battle with AC power over Tesla’s DC), had set the standard at 110 VAC to ensure that houses at the end of lines could at least get 100 VAC and many appliances were labeled that way but the standard was changed to 115V in about the 1930’s and then in 1984, the NEC mandated 120V +/- 5%.    It has been creeping up to make power transmission more efficient with the existing gauges of wire used.  

Normal residential power is delivered  as single phase from each leg of the transformer at 120 VAC to neutral with the other leg to neutral being 180 degrees out of phase (so the two hot wires together will give 240 VAC - still at 60 Hertz).   Industrial systems (and some marinas) use 3 phase power because it is more efficient and that system has three hot legs, each of which is at 120 VAC to neutral but 208 VAC to another leg as the power is out of phase by only 120˚.  Think of the power as coming in on a Sine wave oscillating at 60 Hertz.  When you combine those three phases together you get 360 degrees (or 120 degrees on each of three legs).     The net of it is that your boat can see anything from 208 to 240 VAC if you join two hot legs together or 120 VAC if you just use one hot leg to neutral.  All 60 Hertz and +/-5%.  

Most devices labelled 110VAC will have no difficulty at all at 120VAC.  NEMA rated motors will go +/- 10% of their nameplate voltages.   Old incandescent bulbs might burn a bit hotter (as might the element on your stove or hair dryer) but the motors will take to it just fine as will your electronics.

Brent Cameron, Future Amel owner & Amel Owner's Registry Moderator

--
Brent Cameron

Future Amel Owner & Amel Owner Registry Moderator

Oro-Medonte, Ontario, Canada


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Peter de Groot
 

Thank you Bill, Matt and Tom,
Just to clarify, when I refer to plugging into shore power, for this discussion I mean 230VAC 50A shore power in NorthAmerica.  (Yes 60 Hz).  The previous owners converted the Amel cable to feed 2 hot legs and a ground (no neutral).  Again, the previous owners claim (and I believe)were able to run the AC from this power source.

The wire removed was the A to B connection on the diagram

Peter
SM 207


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

 

Peter,

You definitely have a ground fault in some device on your boat. A ground fault will trip a pedestal breaker in a marina much faster than a ground fault will trip the main breaker on your 220-volt panel because the sensitivity for ground faults in a marina is very high, especially in the US where marinas do not want to be sued for injury.

I suggest you get an electrician to isolate which device is causing a ground fault.
The most common is the water heater which develops pinholes in the heating element, and the second most common is the Climma AC/Heat units. There are many different causes of ground faults in the Climma units with the most expensive being a ground fault inside the compressor.

Write me at brouse@... or call at the number below. I am in the US Central time zone. WhatsAp or Signal work for me. 
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 4:44 PM Peter de Groot <pandmdegroot@...> wrote:


Greetings,
I’m hoping someone has run into this before, and can shed some light.  I have the feeling the answer is staring me right in the face and I just can’t see it.

For 3 years of owning la Querida SM#207 I’ve always run the heaters and Air Conditioning from generator power.  The marina where I was berthed only offered a 30A 120VAC circuit.  Now that we’re in Mexico, we’ve had occasion to run the water heater and Air Conditioning from shore power.  It has not gone well.  Upon plugging into shore power the breaker on the side of the 220VAC load center in the galley immediately tripped.  Mind you this is North American 220(230) VAC with two hot legs and no neutral.  Together with an electrician we found the offending circuit and disconnected the blue (normally neutral) wire and all circuits worked except the Climma air conditioning.  Restoring that connection A to B in the diagram above, the Air conditioning works being powered from the generator.  However the main breaker trips immediately when connected to shore power.  Power feed “1” comes off the main power distribution, no circuit separate circuit breaker.  Power feed “2” comes off the “Climma” individual breaker on the Amel Panel.

Measuring voltage from “B” to a brown junction point reads 125VAC.  From “B” to a blue wire junction point (normally neutral) also reads about 125 VAC.  “B” to ground is open.

The electrician did his work three ports ago (and we were sailing the next day) when our priority was to get the hot water heater to work without bothering the neighbors with generator noise and exhaust.  Now our priority is getting the air conditioning working from shore power.  We’re much further south and the cabin is a sauna most evenings.  The previous owner was on board for a week in Zihuatenejo and reiterated he was able to run all circuits (including the air conditioning) from shore power.  He also did his cruising in Mexico with 2 hot leg 230VAC power.

Any tips or similar past experience/solutions would be welcome.

Peter de Groot
la Querida, SM#207
now in Barra de Navidad
(just back from Ixtapa where the mosquitoes forced us to close the hatches making the problem worse)


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Matt Salatino
 

One thing to keep in mind, US power is 120 volts, 60 hz, not 110.
Easy mistake to make.
Even our A50 with the US power option is labeled 110 volts.

~~~⛵️~~~Matt

On Feb 2, 2021, at 6:48 PM, Thomas Peacock <peacock8491@...> wrote:

Being in the US, we have also had to occasionally run on a shore pedestal that puts out 30 amps at 110 volts. The transformer in the engine room then converts that to 220 volts, which, I have always assumed, yields only about 15 amps. Once that feeds into the 220 panel, I have, again, always assumed that the panel cannot tell what the original voltage was, it just sees 220 in a European wiring configuration. Obviously, the Hertz will be 60, whereas with the generator it is 50. 
I’m not sure what wire your electrician disconnected, but I would be VERY reluctant to mess with the original Amel wiring. 
That said, you cannot run both the AC units and the water heater on US (or Mexican) 30 amp 110 volts. There just isn’t enough juice. Check the watts on all your devices. 30 amps at 110 volts should only be able to give you about 3,300 watts.
By the breaker, do you mean the 32 amp breaker on the 220 volt box?
As always, I am not an electrician. Past results do not predict future returns. I’m sure others may add more expertise.

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay 

On Feb 2, 2021, at 5:44 PM, Peter de Groot <pandmdegroot@...> wrote:


<B87D5313-A35F-4F7C-9F56-612E08B1201E.jpeg>


Greetings,
I’m hoping someone has run into this before, and can shed some light.  I have the feeling the answer is staring me right in the face and I just can’t see it.

For 3 years of owning la Querida SM#207 I’ve always run the heaters and Air Conditioning from generator power.  The marina where I was berthed only offered a 30A 120VAC circuit.  Now that we’re in Mexico, we’ve had occasion to run the water heater and Air Conditioning from shore power.  It has not gone well.  Upon plugging into shore power the breaker on the side of the 220VAC load center in the galley immediately tripped.  Mind you this is North American 220(230) VAC with two hot legs and no neutral.  Together with an electrician we found the offending circuit and disconnected the blue (normally neutral) wire and all circuits worked except the Climma air conditioning.  Restoring that connection A to B in the diagram above, the Air conditioning works being powered from the generator.  However the main breaker trips immediately when connected to shore power.  Power feed “1” comes off the main power distribution, no circuit separate circuit breaker.  Power feed “2” comes off the “Climma” individual breaker on the Amel Panel.

Measuring voltage from “B” to a brown junction point reads 125VAC.  From “B” to a blue wire junction point (normally neutral) also reads about 125 VAC.  “B” to ground is open.

The electrician did his work three ports ago (and we were sailing the next day) when our priority was to get the hot water heater to work without bothering the neighbors with generator noise and exhaust.  Now our priority is getting the air conditioning working from shore power.  We’re much further south and the cabin is a sauna most evenings.  The previous owner was on board for a week in Zihuatenejo and reiterated he was able to run all circuits (including the air conditioning) from shore power.  He also did his cruising in Mexico with 2 hot leg 230VAC power.

Any tips or similar past experience/solutions would be welcome.

Peter de Groot
la Querida, SM#207
now in Barra de Navidad
(just back from Ixtapa where the mosquitoes forced us to close the hatches making the problem worse)

--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Re: Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Thomas Peacock
 

Being in the US, we have also had to occasionally run on a shore pedestal that puts out 30 amps at 110 volts. The transformer in the engine room then converts that to 220 volts, which, I have always assumed, yields only about 15 amps. Once that feeds into the 220 panel, I have, again, always assumed that the panel cannot tell what the original voltage was, it just sees 220 in a European wiring configuration. Obviously, the Hertz will be 60, whereas with the generator it is 50. 
I’m not sure what wire your electrician disconnected, but I would be VERY reluctant to mess with the original Amel wiring. 
That said, you cannot run both the AC units and the water heater on US (or Mexican) 30 amp 110 volts. There just isn’t enough juice. Check the watts on all your devices. 30 amps at 110 volts should only be able to give you about 3,300 watts.
By the breaker, do you mean the 32 amp breaker on the 220 volt box?
As always, I am not an electrician. Past results do not predict future returns. I’m sure others may add more expertise.

Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay 

On Feb 2, 2021, at 5:44 PM, Peter de Groot <pandmdegroot@...> wrote:


<B87D5313-A35F-4F7C-9F56-612E08B1201E.jpeg>


Greetings,
I’m hoping someone has run into this before, and can shed some light.  I have the feeling the answer is staring me right in the face and I just can’t see it.

For 3 years of owning la Querida SM#207 I’ve always run the heaters and Air Conditioning from generator power.  The marina where I was berthed only offered a 30A 120VAC circuit.  Now that we’re in Mexico, we’ve had occasion to run the water heater and Air Conditioning from shore power.  It has not gone well.  Upon plugging into shore power the breaker on the side of the 220VAC load center in the galley immediately tripped.  Mind you this is North American 220(230) VAC with two hot legs and no neutral.  Together with an electrician we found the offending circuit and disconnected the blue (normally neutral) wire and all circuits worked except the Climma air conditioning.  Restoring that connection A to B in the diagram above, the Air conditioning works being powered from the generator.  However the main breaker trips immediately when connected to shore power.  Power feed “1” comes off the main power distribution, no circuit separate circuit breaker.  Power feed “2” comes off the “Climma” individual breaker on the Amel Panel.

Measuring voltage from “B” to a brown junction point reads 125VAC.  From “B” to a blue wire junction point (normally neutral) also reads about 125 VAC.  “B” to ground is open.

The electrician did his work three ports ago (and we were sailing the next day) when our priority was to get the hot water heater to work without bothering the neighbors with generator noise and exhaust.  Now our priority is getting the air conditioning working from shore power.  We’re much further south and the cabin is a sauna most evenings.  The previous owner was on board for a week in Zihuatenejo and reiterated he was able to run all circuits (including the air conditioning) from shore power.  He also did his cruising in Mexico with 2 hot leg 230VAC power.

Any tips or similar past experience/solutions would be welcome.

Peter de Groot
la Querida, SM#207
now in Barra de Navidad
(just back from Ixtapa where the mosquitoes forced us to close the hatches making the problem worse)

--
Tom Peacock
SM 240 Aletes
Chesapeake Bay


Climma Air Conditioning from shore power

Peter de Groot
 



Greetings,
I’m hoping someone has run into this before, and can shed some light.  I have the feeling the answer is staring me right in the face and I just can’t see it.

For 3 years of owning la Querida SM#207 I’ve always run the heaters and Air Conditioning from generator power.  The marina where I was berthed only offered a 30A 120VAC circuit.  Now that we’re in Mexico, we’ve had occasion to run the water heater and Air Conditioning from shore power.  It has not gone well.  Upon plugging into shore power the breaker on the side of the 220VAC load center in the galley immediately tripped.  Mind you this is North American 220(230) VAC with two hot legs and no neutral.  Together with an electrician we found the offending circuit and disconnected the blue (normally neutral) wire and all circuits worked except the Climma air conditioning.  Restoring that connection A to B in the diagram above, the Air conditioning works being powered from the generator.  However the main breaker trips immediately when connected to shore power.  Power feed “1” comes off the main power distribution, no circuit separate circuit breaker.  Power feed “2” comes off the “Climma” individual breaker on the Amel Panel.

Measuring voltage from “B” to a brown junction point reads 125VAC.  From “B” to a blue wire junction point (normally neutral) also reads about 125 VAC.  “B” to ground is open.

The electrician did his work three ports ago (and we were sailing the next day) when our priority was to get the hot water heater to work without bothering the neighbors with generator noise and exhaust.  Now our priority is getting the air conditioning working from shore power.  We’re much further south and the cabin is a sauna most evenings.  The previous owner was on board for a week in Zihuatenejo and reiterated he was able to run all circuits (including the air conditioning) from shore power.  He also did his cruising in Mexico with 2 hot leg 230VAC power.

Any tips or similar past experience/solutions would be welcome.

Peter de Groot
la Querida, SM#207
now in Barra de Navidad
(just back from Ixtapa where the mosquitoes forced us to close the hatches making the problem worse)


Re: How much Solar?

Wolfgang Weber <webercardio@...>
 

Hello to the group,
We have 600Ah/24V wetcell batteries and no solar which is good for sailing the Med-sea.
The problem with this configuration is you start the onan and charger with 100-80 A and charging will decrease to 30-40 A after 1/2-1 .
So first step for me is to switch to 600Ah Lithium batteries before adding any solarcells.
Stay healthy!
Wolfgang Weber SY Elise Amel 54#162






Re: Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

michael winand
 

Thanks for sharing.  Could you please advise on the approximate hours to construct your own?
Thanks, Michael, Nebo sm251 


On Wed, 3 Feb 2021 at 2:53 am, Ann-Sofie
<ann-sofie@...> wrote:
As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal


Re: How much Solar?

Justin Maguire
 

Congratulations on Makemo!

 

I had no idea that the generator run time was that much – wow! Solar and Lithium would transform your world for sure!

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: Chantal & Alain sv Makemo
Sent: Tuesday, February 2, 2021 12:50 PM
To: main@AmelYachtOwners.groups.io
Subject: Re: [AmelYachtOwners] How much Solar?

 

Hello Billy,
we acquired 4 months ago Makemo, Amel 55 nº1 and we are experiencing all the fixtures.
today with one fridge and one freezer, we are consuming about 200Ah/day at the mooring and much more while sailing with everything on. We only have 2x 185w solar panels on our davitts producing in the West Indies between 1.2 and 1.5kwh in January (8am till 5pm more or less).
Therefore we are using the genset everyday min 2.5 h up to 4h.
We are looking for increasing our solar capacity replacing ours panels with 2x 370 or 440w new panels located at the  same place.
it should deliver 2x mini representing 2-3 of our consumption at the mooring.
our batteries are AGM 660Ah (24v).
we would also like to put flexi panels in the hard top but we have not yet identified a good way to put the cables.
Happy to exchange your project when defined.
regards

 


Re: How much Solar?

Chantal & Alain sv Makemo
 

Hello Billy,
we acquired 4 months ago Makemo, Amel 55 nº1 and we are experiencing all the fixtures.
today with one fridge and one freezer, we are consuming about 200Ah/day at the mooring and much more while sailing with everything on. We only have 2x 185w solar panels on our davitts producing in the West Indies between 1.2 and 1.5kwh in January (8am till 5pm more or less).
Therefore we are using the genset everyday min 2.5 h up to 4h.
We are looking for increasing our solar capacity replacing ours panels with 2x 370 or 440w new panels located at the  same place.
it should deliver 2x mini representing 2-3 of our consumption at the mooring.
our batteries are AGM 660Ah (24v).
we would also like to put flexi panels in the hard top but we have not yet identified a good way to put the cables.
Happy to exchange your project when defined.
regards


Solid cockpit roof on Super Maramu

Ann-Sofie, S/Y Lady Annila
 

As per request we have made a short film about our cockpit roof on our SuperMaramu S/Y Lady Annila.
Please follow this URL https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9dzki9zbz2s4mv/AAA1Nv70ovxLvpMuDCQHAUG1a?dl=0

Regards
Annsofie & Jonas
S/Y Lady Annila, SM 232, 1998
Present in Algarve, Portugal


Re: Water coming in at portside from a previous wrong repair

 

Victor,

I believe that you should get a professional opinion/survey.

I suggest that you ask the most qualified person I know.
Olivier BEAUTE / ATLANTIC YACHT SURVEY
32 avenue des Corsaires
17000 LA ROCHELLE
Tel: +33 546 522 147   Mob: +33 674 028 243
CW Bill Rouse Amel Owners Yacht School
Address: 720 Winnie, Galveston Island, Texas 77550 
View My Training Calendar


On Tue, Feb 2, 2021 at 7:09 AM VICTOR MOLERO <victor.moleroxx@...> wrote:
Hello all.
 A few yeras back, while in the marina a strong storm caused a collision of my SM with the boat moored to our portside. It was repaired but since then we have noticed water in the kitchen, right under the stove. I think that I have finally found from the inside what the source of water may be (only when it rains), and seems to be on the fibreglass. Does anyone have any recomendation to fix this? Should I just put a patch of fibre glass on top of the affected area inside the boat, or should I do something also at the outside (by the rubrail)? I am attaching some pictures. Any recomendation will be more than welcome.
Victor
SM314 Alendoy 


Water coming in at portside from a previous wrong repair

VICTOR MOLERO
 

Hello all.
 A few yeras back, while in the marina a strong storm caused a collision of my SM with the boat moored to our portside. It was repaired but since then we have noticed water in the kitchen, right under the stove. I think that I have finally found from the inside what the source of water may be (only when it rains), and seems to be on the fibreglass. Does anyone have any recomendation to fix this? Should I just put a patch of fibre glass on top of the affected area inside the boat, or should I do something also at the outside (by the rubrail)? I am attaching some pictures. Any recomendation will be more than welcome.
Victor
SM314 Alendoy 


Re: Cracked Forestay Chainplate

Ellen Cahill
 

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation. The fracture was not in fact on a weld but rather on a bend. Even if it was bent under proper heat tratments I suspect that it still caused stress concentrators to occur in this area. The fracture surface looks very similar indeed to yours Bill, mostly dull and grainy with signs of slow crack propagation. 

So careful inspection and regular washing seems to be the best preventative solution before replacing parts. 

2941 - 2960 of 59217